The relation

[renuka]

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Dear Ravi,

You wrote:

For a more clear example, if you remember our dear member Renuka said that she have one or two male friends who do involve in extra marital affairs due their own reasons. But she still honor them and be their friends for their many more good values and friendship. Moreover would not even find sensible/good to disclose their affairs to their respective wives. So, Renuka is of that personality and many of us may be the same or varying a bit.

Are yaar..what is the relevance to the question ozone asked you?
He was asking you about a smoker and a person doing Homa.
Dear Ravi I hope you are not trying to hint that I should disclose this to my friends wife.
You see these are my reasons why I dont disclose;

1)First i dont want to be an Ethappan and betray my friend when he trusted me and told me.

2)Secondly most affairs do not mean anything to most people and no one actually intends to breaks up their homes for it.
Most people want to have the best of both worlds.So let my friend have his vegan cake and eat it both(he is pure veg)

3)Last but not the least its better not to say anything than to speak unpleasant truth.


You must have your reasons for not disclosing to your friends wife about his affairs..remember the muslim colleague you wrote about?

 

[Naina_Marbus]

Doc

Sorry - Westerners being "too self-centered" doesn't quite mean that only the westerners are self-centered .

Further - " Tvameva Matha Cha .............. ", to me is more of a 'surrender' than a 'prayer' wherein the Almighty
is personified and perceived as Mother, Father, Freind ........ etc etc.

Guruvethunai
Yay Yem

Dear Anand:
You are right on. Did you notice that the verse "TvamevaMatha Cha ..............", refers to mother, father,bandhu, sakha.. , implying a need for the self to invoke these relationships as important adjuncts?

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Ravi,

You wrote:




Are yaar..what is the relevance to the question ozone asked you?
He was asking you about a smoker and a person doing Homa.
Dear Ravi I hope you are not trying to hint that I should disclose this to my friends wife.
You see these are my reasons why I dont disclose;

1)First i dont want to be an Ethappan and betray my friend when he trusted me and told me.

2)Secondly most affairs do not mean anything to most people and no one actually intends to breaks up their homes for it.
Most people want to have the best of both worlds.So let my friend have his vegan cake and eat it both(he is pure veg)

3)Last but not the least its better not to say anything than to speak unpleasant truth.


You must have your reasons for not disclosing to your friends wife about his affairs..remember the muslim colleague you wrote about?

My dear Renuka, do you got a feeling that I was criticizing you for not disclosing things to your friend's wife??

If that's what you felt, I didn't say anything on those lines. My statements were just to the point as what you told about it. And I said, many of "us" may do the same or differ a bit. Here "us" includes me too. People who differ with "us" may do many other things to let the wives know, without getting themselves caught by their friends Or tell openly and cut off the friendship..etc..etc..etc..That's all.

My Ex Muslim colleague whom I was referring to is like your friends only. He is a gem of person. Very helping and have many fine qualities. As well he says, he loves his wife and respect her a lot.

I do have the friendship with him and I don't have to reveal such unpleasant thinks to his wife. Exactly for the same reasons you have listed out. Both husband and wife are living very happily without any disputes as well.


Dear Renuka, it has the relevance to Shri Ozone's question to me, about defining friends/friendship. I didn't realize that you would not like my reference to your friends that you have expressed before and shared with all of us here. I first explained him about the friendship between a smoker and a non smoker and then refered to your friend's case as well for a more clear example.

 

[Raghy]

This is the kind of quote to expect from Westerners (especially Americans) brainwashed into a system in which every individual tends to be highly egotic and narcissistic.

Raghy has made some sensible observations. Even Europeans will agree with Raghy.

Dear Sri. Naina, Greetings.

We as persons need someone all the time. We all are social animals. We require the society; To have a society, we need people to take part in that.

Yes, as you rightly pointed out, excess ego is the culprit all the time. I came across so many elderly people who went through divorces ( I knew a person who went through 3 divorces, all of them went through bitter fights); without a second thought burnt bridges with their children and friends.... and at the age after 75 - 80 years, day in and day out lying in their recliners wishing for visitors!

It is nice to see so many messages in this thread talking about accepting persons in complete. There may be something seriously wrong with me..... such acceptance never happened to me; I never pretended to accept someone completely either. I haven't seen that happen in my own family.

I learnt simple lessons in my life. One can never make everyone happy all the time; so, one should not expect everyone to make him/her happy all the time either. One should always be aware of others not accepting him/her completely, so that, one would always behave properly so as not to offend others. There is no point in saying " I didn't mean this... I didn't mean that..etc'; we see such conversations all the time around us. If persons are accepting others completely, why would there be such conversations?

From what I understand from my life, for any person, relationships depend upon himself/herself. He/she decides the amount of socialising they need or require and act accordingly. We may not need the same amount of socialising all the time. It goes up and down. At different stages in life we look for different amount of socialising. We do come across so many persons in life anyway; when we part, if we don't burn bridges, such relationships can be renewed as and when we need.

As long as we are ready to give unconditional love, affection and compassion to others, when we need that love, affection and compassion we get it. We may not get from the initial sources... mind you, we may not burn bridges but others may very well burn bridges! So, personally I will not take any relationship for granted; I wouln't even dream of anyone else accepting me completely.... I wouldn't be kidding myself lookig for any fairy tale stuff! But, that's my personal opinion.

Cheers!

 

[Anand Manohar]

Yes Naina

I am glad Renuka, you and I see eye-to-eye on this issue. There is also another verse starts with:

Pitassi Lokaysa, Charaacharaysya - Thou art the Father of the world and all that moves and static.....

And ends with:

Piteva putraysa, Sakheva sakhyuhu, Priya Priyayaar hasi deva sodum. - Bear with me as father with a son,
friend with a friend and as lover with his beloved.

Naina your observation "the need for the self to invoke these relationships" is absolutely "spot-on". Kudos.

Guruvethunai
Yay Yem

 

[Anand Manohar]

Dear Renuka

ACTION REPLAY - TB COMEDY SERIAL.

We will give you Senthil's role and C.Ravi, Koundamani's. Onlookers -
Raghy - seated in the centre
Ozone & HH Siva - standing
Myself - seated, in the background.

Script : The banana joke - (your sparring).
Sounds interesting - after Laurel & Hardy, Mutt & Jeff, Tom & Jerry, now "Renu & Ravi"
Topic : "The Relation"
Theme :Cat & Mouse
Censor : Certified "U" rating - accused of plagiarism.

Guruvethunai
Yay Yem

 

[ozone]

Naina your observation "the need for the self to invoke these relationships" is absolutely "spot-on". Kudos.

Guruvethunai
Yay Yem

isnt it also telling us that we need not go after one person for each such relationship, but find them all in ONE?

 

[Anand Manohar]

Dear All

Jokes apart, I think it would do us all a world of good to study a bit of TA.

Guruvethunai
Yay Yem

 

[C RAVI]

Exactly!!!! "The need of the self" invokes relationships AND "The loss for the self" sustains the most valuable and desirable relationship.

Both leads to formation, growth and sustenance of relationships out of heartfelt mutual acceptance, unmindful of natural human flaws.

 

[Anand Manohar]

Marhaba Rafiq [ Welcome Friend ] - sounds phonetically similar to Ravi

So you do agree on the need for a bit of study on TA ?

whew - a plantain is a fruit afterall! shukran.

Guruvethunai
Yay Yem

 

[C RAVI]

Shri Anand Monahar,

To be frank I haven't done with a bit of study on TA...

What I have said in my post #34 is what I have been saying all these while..

I feel, the Opening Post has been complicated here and distracted with too many comprehensions. Off course, it all stimulates our brains well and facilitate exchange of views on branched out points.

We humans would have no purpose on this Earth if we are deprived with "the need of the self". So, there is nothing to remain focused and elaborate on this.

When we talk about relationships, which does not work out and sustain unless there exists mutual acceptance of the other in Toto, all I am saying is - we end up with some or other compromises, adjustments and even losing something that we would prefer to have for our self. We end up graciously accepting "the loss for the self" while evaluating the values of the other likeable individual in our life.

That's how we accept the other completely and make the other complete, despite some or the other natural human flaws of each other.

As well, we should not have a wrong perception that, though we graciously agree "the loss for the self" in a relationship, we are in fact still serving our supreme self and that the compromises and losses for the sake of the other are flawed. And that there is no greater surrender with dedication other than to the God. We need to value the other human in our most revered relationship of samsaaram (though you don't find the other equally dedicated towards you), fulfill our role with reasonable selflessness, that would amount to serving the Purest Supreme Self that is dedicated to God and Spirituality.

I would define "the loss for the self" in a relationship as "The Purest Supreme Self" where you lose to keep yourself in tact, fulfilling your duties, responsibilities, moralities, trust worthiness, care and protection and consideration towards the other, in your most valuable relationship.

For the two individuals in the relationship, to have the sense of being completely facilitated with each one's role and living each one's complete life, each of them should be completely accepted by the other, unmindful of each individual's unique flaws as Human.

I give the significance of quote in the OP most importantly to that of human relationships that leads to the formation, growth and sustenance of family relationships. And agree with the beauty of relations, that facilitates each other to be complete, having completely accepted each other, the way each other are.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka

ACTION REPLAY - TB COMEDY SERIAL.

We will give you Senthil's role and C.Ravi, Koundamani's. Onlookers -
Raghy - seated in the centre
Ozone & HH Siva - standing
Myself - seated, in the background.

Script : The banana joke - (your sparring).
Sounds interesting - after Laurel & Hardy, Mutt & Jeff, Tom & Jerry, now "Renu & Ravi"
Topic : "The Relation"
Theme :Cat & Mouse
Censor : Certified "U" rating - accused of plagiarism.

Guruvethunai
Yay Yem

That will be great Ok cos I feel that sometimes when Ravi and I debate its like that banana joke situation only.!!LOL

 

[Anand Manohar]

Dear Raviji

TA is no big deal. Just a high-sounding jargon! The interaction between any two/more individuals is
termed a transaction. Most, [if not all] of what you have being saying is all described in TA and you
have been saying them without sounding "High & Mighty". It appears that you are already putting into
practice the various principles described. Something that came to you naturally.

I am no expert/master of TA but suggest that you read TA, just to re-confirm to yourself what
a great practitioner of you already are. It's not one of those " Become a Millionaire Overnight " /
"Secret to Instant Success" / " Rule the World with your Personality " stuff.

I can give you a 'start-up', but feel you can place things in perspective, because you are already there.

Yes I agree, AVVR has a habit of starting something and then ducking away, but don't quite feel
that there is too much of a digression.

Guruvethunai
Yay Yem

 

[Raghy]

Dear All

Jokes apart, I think it would do us all a world of good to study a bit of TA.

Guruvethunai
Yay Yem

Dear Sri. Anand, Greetings.

What is the expansion of TA, please? Thanks.

Cheers!

 

[Naina_Marbus]

isnt it also telling us that we need not go after one person for each such relationship, but find them all in ONE?

Maybe. Find them all in ONE? Only very few could do that – like Meerabai, Saint Thyagaraja, Ramana Maharishi, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa.

 

[Naina_Marbus]

Dear Sri. Anand, Greetings.

What is the expansion of TA, please? Thanks.

Cheers!

I am guessing - transactional analysis

 

[Anand Manohar]

Dear Raghy

Naina is absolutely correct - I was referring to Transaction Analysis. Sri Raviji has been running around
an orchard full of lovely, juicy fruits - he knows all about the fruits and is great in giving us terrific,
graphic descriptions about them.

I am sure he wont mind if you pluck some [from the TA garden] - he doesn't seem to have just tasted
the fruits, he seems to have nurtured the very orchard itself.

"TATA" now - you go to the TA orchard, Raviji waiting there - I'll go and fetch some fertilizer
and manure - need to increase the fruit output, seems to be in short supply.

Guruvethunai
Yay Yem

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Raghy

Naina is absolutely correct - I was referring to Transaction Analysis. Sri Raviji has been running around
an orchard full of lovely, juicy fruits - he knows all about the fruits and is great in giving us terrific,
graphic descriptions about them.

I am sure he wont mind if you pluck some [from the TA garden] - he doesn't seem to have just tasted
the fruits, he seems to have nurtured the very orchard itself.

"TATA" now - you go to the TA orchard, Raviji waiting there - I'll go and fetch some fertilizer
and manure - need to increase the fruit output, seems to be in short supply.

Guruvethunai
Yay Yem

A very sweet explanation Shri Anand Manohar...

I loved the way you have expressed my views and opinions, that is a part and parcel of myself, with an orchard full of lovely, juicy fruits. And that, I have tasted my own nurture, enjoying them and would be willing to share with others.

Shri Anand Manohar,

But, I would like to tell you that - I am not the only one who is nurturing the orchard full of lovely and juicy fruits , tasting them and sharing them. There are many many so many humans on this Earth who did and are doing the same.

I can well understand and know that neither my Mother nor my Father found each other 100 percent perfect and convincing to each other all the time. But they accepted each other whole heartily and lived their life till the end, together sailing the ship.

The same is the case between our parents and we siblings. As well between we siblings.

What ever the differences, flaws and disagreements, we are enjoying the relationship in all its charm.


I am sure many many members here have nurtured and nurturing the very same lovely orchard and are completing themselves and the other family members, having mutually accepted each other completely. Trying the best to support each other and making each of the family members complete as an individual for the individual self and collectively contributing towards completeness of the relationship.

That's the beauty of the relations. Where, the "need of the self" and the "loss for the self" revolves around fellow humans in our relationships.

Life in relationship is not all about achieving all that is beneficial and comfortable to "YOU" ONLY. It is sharing and losing too for the sake of our loved ones.

We accept the other with our true commitment, love and respect WHEN we could know that no human is 100 percent perfect and 100 percent complete, composed, skilled, matured and selfless.

We all nurture this beautiful orchard full of lovely and juicy fruits collectively, hope to sustain this wonderful garden and do our best contribution for the sake of self and the others.

IMO, this is what the message in OP is all about...


Note- What all I have expressed in this thread, considering the message in OP, I am of the strong opinion that, these are not any imaginary Fairy Tales that are unrealistic in this world of human survival. My views and opinions are based on my personal observations of humans relationships where a human accepts the other human with his/her own flows, Honestly realizing one's own flaws.

 

[renuka]

Today while attending a medical meeting during the lecture(I have a short attention span) I was thinking that actually only when we expect something from a relationship the need for acceptance arises.

If we dont expect anything in return from anyone in terms of relationship..there is no need for acceptance or even disappointment.

Not an easy state to reach but I feel that would be the best stage to reach in life and no harm working towards that direction.

 

[C RAVI]

Today while attending a medical meeting during the lecture(I have a short attention span) I was thinking that actually only when we expect something from a relationship the need for acceptance arises.

If we dont expect anything in return from anyone in terms of relationship..there is no need for acceptance or even disappointment.

Not an easy state to reach but I feel that would be the best stage to reach in life and no harm working towards that direction.

Dear Renuka,


When we live as human among fellow humans with all our sense of desires to live our life meaningfully, the following are the cases -


1) A girl expects some guy or a guy who she likes to accept her, marry her, give her the charm of womanhood, motherhood etc.etc..The same is the case with a guy.

2) Parents expect their children to grow as good human, well educated, get married and get well settled with peace and happiness.

3) Children (both Physically Fit and Physically Challenged) expect their parents to accept them with all their true love, care and support. To forgive them for their mistakes and help them do better.

4) Siblings expect each other to be loved, respected and supported. To help each other, be united and enjoy the charm of relationships

Etc..etc..etc..

So, these expectations and acceptances are basic foundation of human relationships without which you have to live your life all alone without expectations, acceptances ONLY to lose the charm of the life of human relationships that offers the pleasures of sharing with love, care and respect.

We should not get confused with these desirable and sensible basic expectations and acceptances in our realistic human survival with that of our greediness, stubbornness, acute selfishness that would lead us to utter hatred and disappointments, in our relationships.


For me your views in your post #44 is an ideal message for a human who wants to remain detached for ever, right from the beginning and work towards Liberation with his/her severe penance, practicing Spirituality in dedication to GOD...Life Long..Till the Death, taking the basic personal care of the self, on his/her own.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,


When we live as human among fellow humans with all our sense of desires to live our life meaningfully, the following are the cases -


1) A girl expects some guy or a guy who she likes to accept her, marry her, give her the charm of womanhood, motherhood etc.etc..The same is the case with a guy.

2) Parents expect their children to grow as good human, well educated, get married and get well settled with peace and happiness.

3) Children (both Physically Fit and Physically Challenged) expect their parents to accept them with all their true love, care and support. To forgive them for their mistakes and help them do better.

4) Siblings expect each other to be loved, respected and supported. To help each other, be united and enjoy the charm of relationships

Etc..etc..etc..

So, these expectations and acceptances are basic foundation of human relationships without which you have to live your life all alone without expectations, acceptances ONLY to lose the charm of the life of human relationships that offers the pleasures of sharing with love, care and respect.

We should not get confused with these desirable and sensible basic expectations and acceptances in our realistic human survival with that of our greediness, stubbornness, acute selfishness that would lead us to utter hatred and disappointments, in our relationships.


For me your views in your post #44 is an ideal message for a human who wants to remain detached for ever, right from the beginning and work towards Liberation with his/her severe penance, practicing Spirituality in dedication to GOD...Life Long..Till the Death, taking the basic personal care of the self, on his/her own.

Dear Ravi,

Detachment does not always means lack of compassion.
God is Karuna Sagar yet He is a silent witness.

I feel when there is detachment we function better cos our compassion is not tainted with expectations or acceptance.

Today I met an old Head of Department whom I once worked under in 1997.
He asked me "can you tell me if I was a good boss before?"

I told him "Sir I am going to tell you the truth..you were a very good boss and I liked working for you"

I asked him '"sir why do you ask?"

He said many a times he has seen that his former doctors still come up and talk to him like what I(renu) just did.

I was thinking nice person he wanted to know where he stood in the eyes of his former doctors.

I was thinking I am lucky it was him who asked me cos I really liked working for him and I was wondering if any of my nasty ex bosses had asked me what would I have said?

If the nasty ones had asked me I would have said this "its a nice day today lets not ruin the fun"LOL!!!

I then realized the we humans are interdependent for almost everything in life.
Outcomes and even answers to questions do affect us in a positive or negative manner.

Thats why Karmanyevadhikaraste Ma Phaleshu Kadacana can never go wrong.
Not easy but worth trying.

 

[Anand Manohar]

Finally got to the "Triveni Sangamam" !

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

These days, people generally want to be lonely because all are
not interested to either share the joy or the sorrow together
mainly because of certain fundamental needs of them keeping
them away from the joint family.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Ravi,


I then realized the we humans are interdependent for almost everything in life.
Outcomes and even answers to questions do affect us in a positive or negative manner.

Thats why Karmanyevadhikaraste Ma Phaleshu Kadacana can never go wrong.
Not easy but worth trying.

Dear Renuka,

YES!!!! Your are off course right...

I am also of the same opinion that - "Karmanyeadhikaraste Ma Phaleshu Kadacana" can never go wrong and that's the ideal attitude to live a peaceful and happy life.

When you adopt the above attitude to fulfill your duties, you do forgo something or other for the sake of others in your relationship and NOT ONLY do your duty for the sake of it BUT ALSO to experience the "True Joy" that you could derive out of such sacrifices, without expecting anything in return.

That's the beauty of committed human relationship that can facilitate you to follow "Karmanyevadhikaraste Ma Phaleshu Kadacana" and leave the outcome in the hands of GOD.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

When a boy ties a knot followed by the two such knots in the presence of many,
his relationships are also tied from then on, finding a way out to solve the intricate
and sensitive problems emerging out of the knots being spelt now and then by
the life partner, to satisfy everyone around her.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur