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The magic of spiritual energy

renuka

Well-known member
Maya is illusion to the lower realities and is deluding but in the deeper sense it is real and is one with brahman. I think maya has that extra deluding capabilities and brahman needs to create physical reality to catch up and be in sync with maya. That is the reason for the projection of physical reality with screenplay, dialogue , direction and acting done by brahman

A revolutionary idea. what do you think Renuka and others?
Swami Yogananda had explained this well.
Maya has 2 functions
1) Para Prakiti: which is in sync with Brahman in the subtle and causal realms.

2) Apara Prakirti which took a Vikshepana( distorting) and Avarana( veiling) function when the gross world came into projection.


Just to add Ibn Arabi states the only God veils Himself by Himself because there can be none but God.
Ibn Arabi also states the Cosmic deluder is but a projectile power of God.

So this is my understanding but I usually dont prefer to dwell on Maya concept.

Why dwell on the Deluder..lets dwell on the God the most merciful most gracious...Karuna Sagara.
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
I was trying to understand the reason for the projection. Though I am strongly in tune with spiritual mode of thinking I have a strong inclination for scientific explanations also.

When Brahman is complete in the spiritual reality what is the need for projection of physical reality. I think there is something missing which I tried to explain through male and feminine concepts of God. In other words through the concepts of Brahman and maya. They are both one in the spiritual world. This is in accordance with Advaita. Otherwise there would be contradictions.

But think about physical reality. Maya's role is predominant. The ultimate goal is to come out of maya. But what about Brahman. He superficially deludes Himself. But why this play unless there is the purpose of finding out something. He is also the witness. So he is listening to what is going on in the physical world.

So there is s gap between Brahman and maya and the function of physical projection is to overcome it. At the highest level Brahman and maya are one and timelessness is the ultimate reality but at some level and somehow the mechanics of physical reality is happening and with a purpose.
 

renuka

Well-known member
I was trying to understand the reason for the projection. Though I am strongly in tune with spiritual mode of thinking I have a strong inclination for scientific explanations also.

When Brahman is complete in the spiritual reality what is the need for projection of physical reality. I think there is something missing which I tried to explain through male and feminine concepts of God. In other words through the concepts of Brahman and maya. They are both one in the spiritual world. This is in accordance with Advaita. Otherwise there would be contradictions.

But think about physical reality. Maya's role is predominant. The ultimate goal is to come out of maya. But what about Brahman. He superficially deludes Himself. But why this play unless there is the purpose of finding out something. He is also the witness. So he is listening to what is going on in the physical world.

So there is s gap between Brahman and maya and the function of physical projection is to overcome it. At the highest level Brahman and maya are one and timelessness is the ultimate reality but at some level and somehow the mechanics of physical reality is happening and with a purpose.
This is exactly the trap of Maya.
Its makes the intellect try to analyse and distort our understanding and further veil ourselves.

Just ignore it and focus on God.
Honestly Maya concept gets us no where even though we are all here because of Maya.

I do understand now why Vaishnavas do not give much importance to Maya and just focus on Vishnu.

Even in Islam and Christianity the concept of deluder is just made into the " devil" and told to stay away from it and focus on God.

Honestly its easier.

If we reach out to God with love, Maya lets go of its clutches.
Even in Islam the devil has no effect on those who are steadfast in faith.

So let go of Maya.
 

renuka

Well-known member
I was trying to understand the reason for the projection. Though I am strongly in tune with spiritual mode of thinking I have a strong inclination for scientific explanations also.

When Brahman is complete in the spiritual reality what is the need for projection of physical reality. I think there is something missing which I tried to explain through male and feminine concepts of God. In other words through the concepts of Brahman and maya. They are both one in the spiritual world. This is in accordance with Advaita. Otherwise there would be contradictions.

But think about physical reality. Maya's role is predominant. The ultimate goal is to come out of maya. But what about Brahman. He superficially deludes Himself. But why this play unless there is the purpose of finding out something. He is also the witness. So he is listening to what is going on in the physical world.

So there is s gap between Brahman and maya and the function of physical projection is to overcome it. At the highest level Brahman and maya are one and timelessness is the ultimate reality but at some level and somehow the mechanics of physical reality is happening and with a purpose.
Some part of your understanding needs some input from advaitic books to get a clearer picture.
Kindly read up some books of Adi Shankara.

Its really long to explain what I read before.
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Renuka,

Maya is certainly not the devil it is made out to be. If it is one with brahman it cannot be. Its purpose is to delude and elude so that we are after it and gain something positive out of it. Think of reality without maya. How would the world be? Exactly like spiritual reality. If maya is not one with brahman the tempering would be missing and i think even spiritual reality would collapse. To see this, think of the physical reality. Which teaches us more and makes us stronger and help us face future problems? Negative events or positive events?

Please do not underestimate maya. To clarify brahman and maya are interchangeable and one. But when you call something maya in my opinion it carries even more punch than brahman would carry.
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Some part of your understanding needs some input from advaitic books to get a clearer picture.
Kindly read up some books of Adi Shankara.

Its really long to explain what I read before.
Thank you Renuka. But I am trying for novel interpretations of fundamental advaita concepts.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Renuka,

Maya is certainly not the devil it is made out to be. If it is one with brahman it cannot be. Its purpose is to delude and elude so that we are after it and gain something positive out of it. Think of reality without maya. How would the world be? Exactly like spiritual reality. If maya is not one with brahman the tempering would be missing and i think even spiritual reality would collapse. To see this, think of the physical reality. Which teaches us more and makes us stronger and help us face future problems? Negative events or positive events?

Please do not underestimate maya. To clarify brahman and maya are interchangeable and one. But when you call something maya in my opinion it carries even more punch than brahman would carry.
The Devil is not an entity.
Its a concept.
Maya is not something one needs to dwell on.
It too is a concept.
Its unreal to a great extent.
Focus on Reality.

This is the risk of Advaita Vedanta.
Its a philosophy and can make the mind attached to analysis.

Leave philosophy as a past time, the intellect has to surrender in order for it to be illuminated by the effulgence of God.
Tat savitur varenyam
Bhargo devasya dhimahi
Dhiyo yo nah pracodayat is about illumination of the intellect as to align with the effulgence of God in order for it to be a receptacle for revelations.


Most people think reciting the gayatri mantra is to enhance the intellect to gain a higher IQ.
Nope, its not..its not about worldy IQ..its about deleting all stored data of wordly acquired knowledge to be replaced by revelations from God.

Maya prevents the mind from aligning with God as it tempts one to go down the lane of philosophy.

Ibn Arabi mentioned that there are 2 types of people who can reach God but only one reaches God

1) The philosopher..He can almost reach God through his reasoning and analysis but goes astray as his intellect stands in the way as free will is still dominant.


2) The one who reaches God is called a " Camel rider" who lets the camel take him right through the deserts of existence and just goes with the flow wherever the camel goes and he doesnt navigate the camel as he has surrendered his free will and the camel is the Divine will.

Sravna..Maya is the philosophical trap.
Let it Go!
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Renuka,

I believe the concept of infinity will remain a concept only and does not manifest in reality. If it did transcendance or higher reality would not work. Till a very extremely high level force is competitive with spiritual energy. But after that transcendance kicks in and however much you try to increase force it will not have any impact. Thats my experience from the battle between force and spiritual energy. SO there is inbuilt smartness in reality. From this we this we can also conclude that maya deludes only with a higher purpose which is in sync with brahmans..
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
The Devil is not an entity.
Its a concept.
Maya is not something one needs to dwell on.
It too is a concept.
Its unreal to a great extent.
Focus on Reality.

This is the risk of Advaita Vedanta.
Its a philosophy and can make the mind attached to analysis.

Leave philosophy as a past time, the intellect has to surrender in order for it to be illuminated by the effulgence of God.
Tat savitur varenyam
Bhargo devasya dhimahi
Dhiyo yo nah pracodayat is about illumination of the intellect as to align with the effulgence of God in order for it to be a receptacle for revelations.


Most people think reciting the gayatri mantra is to enhance the intellect to gain a higher IQ.
Nope, its not..its not about worldy IQ..its about deleting all stored data of wordly acquired knowledge to be replaced by revelations from God.

Maya prevents the mind from aligning with God as it tempts one to go down the lane of philosophy.

Ibn Arabi mentioned that there are 2 types of people who can reach God but only one reaches God

1) The philosopher..He can almost reach God through his reasoning and analysis but goes astray as his intellect stands in the way as free will is still dominant.


2) The one who reaches God is called a " Camel rider" who lets the camel take him right through the deserts of existence and just goes with the flow wherever the camel goes and he doesnt navigate the camel as he has surrendered his free will and the camel is the Divine will.

Sravna..Maya is the philosophical trap.
Let it Go!
Take it from me Renuka. My personal experience attests totally to the reality of maya. It is said to be unreal in one sense because maya seen at mental and physical levels are delusions. But maya which is seen as one with brahman is as real as brahman. Maya as a cause is real but its effects are illusions. The unreal can be felt at physical and mental level but the latter only when one becomes one with brahman.
 
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renuka

Well-known member
Take it from me Renuka. My personal experience attests totally to the reality of maya. It is said to be unreal in one sense because maya seen at mental and physical levels are delusions. But maya which is seen as one with brahman is as real as brahman. Maya as a cause is real but its effects are illusions. The unreal can be felt at physical and mental level but the latter only when one becomes one with brahman.
At the end of the day even Maya disappears..so why wreck our brains about it?

Its like watching a movie and seeing an actor die in it and we think he really died.
Its just a role played.
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
At the end of the day even Maya disappears..so why wreck our brains about it?

Its like watching a movie and seeing an actor die in it and we think he really died.
Its just a role played.
My experience says that only when effects of maya are removed positivity happens. So we need to understand how to remove the effects of maya. By positivity I mean perfectly balanced state with a blissful experience.
 

renuka

Well-known member
My experience says that only when effects of maya are removed positivity happens. So we need to understand how to remove the effects of maya. By positivity I mean perfectly balanced state with a blissful experience.
Sravna,
You should read up on Advaita if you want a clearer picture.

Honestly one needs to believe and follow what Masters have laid down before us.

We all learnt driving by having total faith in the driving instructor and followed each step he showed us because he already went through the training needed.

Likewise, please read up..the issue here is you havent really read up on Advaita ..if you explore Advaita in the real sense you would know that even Adishankara didnt dissect Maya as to understand it or to remove it effects or anything.

The reason we need to " obey" Masters is for us to make our mind less agitated so we can receive inputs and not be fixated on anything that stalls our own self.


Kindly start reading and if possible find a Guru.
If there is no Guru, kindly surrender to God to guide your understanding.

Btw any feeling of bliss etc are actually our own mind in state of non reactiveness because no stimulus made us agitated yet.

So what is bliss?
Honestly it cant be defined..its a state of being dormant yet with full potential..its not felt as it doesnt go through emotions.

So all this positive, bliss etc are just our sensory inputs.
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Sravna,
You should read up on Advaita if you want a clearer picture.

Honestly one needs to believe and follow what Masters have laid down before us.

We all learnt driving by having total faith in the driving instructor and followed each step he showed us because he already went through the training needed.

Likewise, please read up..the issue here is you havent really read up on Advaita ..if you explore Advaita in the real sense you would know that even Adishankara didnt dissect Maya as to understand it or to remove it effects or anything.

The reason we need to " obey" Masters is for us to make our mind less agitated so we can receive inputs and not be fixated on anything that stalls our own self.


Kindly start reading and if possible find a Guru.
If there is no Guru, kindly surrender to God to guide your understanding.

Btw any feeling of bliss etc are actually our own mind in state of non reactiveness because no stimulus made us agitated yet.

So what is bliss?
Honestly it cant be defined..its a state of being dormant yet with full potential..its not felt as it doesnt go through emotions.

So all this positive, bliss etc are just our sensory inputs.
Dear Renuka,

I do swear by the truth of Advaita. As I said faith is an predominant quality of mine. But there is a very strong scientific temper too in me so that a curiosity and urge to probe further is also there. I believe our masters generally are more concerned with the big picture and not with the mechanics. Rightly so because the focus was the inner self and hence conceptual understanding was enough.

Not only my nature but my own experience at the level of physical self has piqued me to understand the grand philosophy of our gurus down to its logical details. I also have great respect for the teachings of gurus other than Sankara as I believe they are basically only differences in perspectives. Accordingly I try to explore them in a non contradictory way so that the essence is not disturbed but the mechanics are understood.

Renuka, ours is a great tradition of respecting gurus and being faithful to them but I feel to make their teachings seep to the level of common man is a very worthy goal. Their precious teachings should not just remain the preserves of the intellectual elite.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Dear Renuka,

I do swear by the truth of Advaita. As I said faith is an predominant quality of mine. But there is a very strong scientific temper too in me so that a curiosity and urge to probe further is also there. I believe our masters generally are more concerned with the big picture and not with the mechanics. Rightly so because the focus was the inner self and hence conceptual understanding was enough.

Not only my nature but my own experience at the level of physical self has piqued me to understand the grand philosophy of our gurus down to its logical details. I also have great respect for the teachings of gurus other than Sankara as I believe they are basically only differences in perspectives. Accordingly I try to explore them in a non contradictory way so that the essence is not disturbed but the mechanics are understood.

Renuka, ours is a great tradition of respecting gurus and being faithful to them but I feel to make their teachings seep to the level of common man is a very worthy goal. Their precious teachings should not just remain the preserves of the intellectual elite.
Sravna ..do you realize where the problem is?
You just said you have a strong scientific temper to further explore but yet you tend to shoot down the scientific temper of scientists.

How different are their scientific temper from yours?
In another post elswhere you said in higher realms logic of the physical world is " nonsense".

So what are you?
A scientist? A Mystic? Both? Or neither?

Let me share the words Ibn Arabi, a great saint whose works are an " Upanishad" in its own right.
Its a bit sad that the Vedantic world missed out works of Ibn Arabi..it would have added great insight to deeper realms.

Ibn Arabi was a genius by his own right..very well educated and devoted to God yet he realized that for higher revelations one needs to be " illiterate".
The word for illiterate in Arabic is Ummiy which is used to describe the Prophet too.

So what does " illiterate" mean here?
The explanation given is" it is not as being unable to read or write but its a virginal state of having suspended all intellectual thinking and reflection.
Its a state where one does not exercise one's power of reflective thought or intellectual judgment in order to extract meanings and secrets.
When the heart is totally secure from reflective thought, then it is " illiterate" and ready to receive Divine illumination perfectly."

Even Ramana Maharishi has emphasized the same in simpler words "Summa iru"...its the same thing..just shut down the mental chatter.

Stop the probing..stop being a scientist...be a mystic who dwells in the sound of silence.

Its in that silence one gets Divine revelations that unfolds to us and then one would be guided to reproduce it in words to help others understand provided God gives us the consent to do so

Not all who receive the revelations have the consent to transmit them.
Being a Guru is a heavy karma to bear.
The word Guru itself means heavy.

A Guru forms a network with his shishyas and auto corrects them spiritually by merely being in close proximity either physically or spiritually..at times the Guru takes over some karma of their shishyas and you may find high ranking Gurus getting cancer or some illness which they bear silently.
Not everyone can take that role.

One has to be patient..no need to aim to be a Guru unless God wills it.
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Renuka,

My thinking style is heavily intuitive. But to share it with others i need to analyze it and present it step by step. I am very much for the methods of science but sadly the minds of overwhelming number of scientists are closed to the prospect of spiritual truths. Luckily I possess a balanced mix of both.

By the way reasoning through logic or math is fine too as that is the route for understanding the physical universe. Each has its place. Physical laws are also the laws of nature which are waiting to be decoded. I do not just want to extol spirituality and excoriate science. But I find the attitude of scientists terrible. Unless they change science will hit a dead end.
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Renuka,

Do youi know the best scientists and mystics would have been summoned to prevail over the spiritual abilities of mine?.They might have triumphed in a technical sense but their intention is despicable and my mind didnt let them prevail. Technical or technology strength is just not enough if you have vile intentions.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Renuka,

My thinking style is heavily intuitive. But to share it with others i need to analyze it and present it step by step. I am very much for the methods of science but sadly the minds of overwhelming number of scientists are closed to the prospect of spiritual truths. Luckily I possess a balanced mix of both.

By the way reasoning through logic or math is fine too as that is the route for understanding the physical universe. Each has its place. Physical laws are also the laws of nature which are waiting to be decoded. I do not just want to extol spirituality and excoriate science. But I find the attitude of scientists terrible. Unless they change science will hit a dead end.
If you find the attitude of scientists terrible then this verse from the Quran would help.

He has made the two seas to flow freely (so that) they meet together. (19)
Between them is a barrier which they cannot pass. (20)

So let two different attitudes exists, they do not cross each other and invade each other.

It doesn't matter how another person thinks.

We only have to focus on ourselves.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Renuka,

Do youi know the best scientists and mystics would have been summoned to prevail over the spiritual abilities of mine?.They might have triumphed in a technical sense but their intention is despicable and my mind didnt let them prevail. Technical or technology strength is just not enough if you have vile intentions.
Well Sravna..first you need some amount of a reality check.
Why do you keep saying " your abilities"?
Drop that thought..thats grandeur.
Jesus said " Blessed are those who are meek, for they shall inherit the earth"

Grandeur clouds your ownself.
Meek does not mean weak but its a state of being a clean slate of a silent mind.
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Attitude is fine as you quoted from Quran if they dont cross each other. But the other side is trying to thrust itself and smear. So there is a need to respond and in a way that is deterring for the scientists. Projection of ego in this context makes the response more effective.
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Effects of heat, gravity continue to reduce. Hunger more under control. Thirst still to come under control.
 
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