The Final Problem

[C RAVI]

Share:

Facebook X (Twitter) WhatsApp Email Share Link

I think if science has to take a step towards immortality, it needs to accept spirituality as a truth. If indeed this is possible, a number of interesting questions would also pop up as a consequence.

Shri Sravna,

My gut guess work is that, Scienctific approach to take spiritual energies in control and using them systematically to conquer death (like offering complex data of Subtle Body Plus Atma to a cloned physical body) would never get succeeded.

By the time a scientists make attempts towards trapping spiritual energies, to the extent of understanding its complexity and channelizing them to acheive the desired results, he will consider himself "Aham Brahmasmi" and would get himself dissolved with Brahman..

Would not wake up and come back to carry out his systematic scientific work to offer Subtle Body and Atma to a cloned physical body....




What say you??

 

[sravna]

Shri Sravna,

My gut guess work is that, Scienctific approach to take spiritual energies in control and using them systematically to conquer death (like offering complex data of Subtle Body Plus Atma to a cloned physical body) would never get succeeded.

By the time a scientists make attempts towards trapping spiritual energies, to the extent of understanding its complexity and channelizing them to acheive the desired results, he will consider himself "Aham Brahmasmi" and would get himself dissolved with Brahman..

Would not wake up and come back to carry out his systematic scientific work to offer Subtle Body and Atma to a cloned physical body....




What say you??

Totally agree with you. In coming to that understanding, scientists I think will learn a lot and also realize that the only way to true immortality is the spiritual route.

 

[C RAVI]

Totally agree with you. In coming to that understanding, scientists I think will learn a lot and also realize that the only way to true immortality is the spiritual route.

Exactly!!!!!

 

[Iyyarooraan]

I can only recall Kannadasan's song, POnal POhattum POda... I think science has not failed as it has yet to see its destination. Rather, the minds get tired and bored and would like to shift to new abode to relive a glorious new life!

 

[biswa]

Hmm, this thread has taken a turn towards the spiritual already. I was also hoping to engage the scientists in the forum.

I see a lot of discussion about atma and soul, but surely that is very human-centric? On the other hand, even fishes, crustaceans and bacteria die. Why? The answer must be independent of whether they have a soul or not.

 

[Yamaka]

Hmm, this thread has taken a turn towards the spiritual already. I was also hoping to engage the scientists in the forum.

I see a lot of discussion about atma and soul, but surely that is very human-centric? On the other hand, even fishes, crustaceans and bacteria die. Why? The answer must be independent of whether they have a soul or not.

Here's my two cents on this "The Final Problem" aka MORTALITY:

1. Scientists have already created "immortalized" human cells like HEK 239 (human embryonic kidney cell # 239).

2. They have also cloned very many mammals very successfully. Human cloning IS happening very silently as there is a federal ban on this in the US. Chinese and Koreans are pushing forward in a big way...

3. Because of normal wear and tear of the cells and tissue, in any living body (microbes,plants, animals, including humans) there needs to be active replenishment of the cells/tissue.

This means there should be MITOTIC activity of the chromosome, new synthesis of fat, proteins etc etc.

For hither to unknown mechanism, this MITOTIC activity, new synthesis of building blocks of cells/tissue are all slowly coming to a grinding halt...

That's "the Final Problem".

It's quite conceivable that in the future, Science, Engineering and Technology will break open this "Black Box" and "immortalize the human body", as they have done the human cells, already...

Believe me, there's No Atma, SNA, PPB or JPK can do the trick here!

That's in the MINDSET of the Believers....most of whom are burdened by

TRADITION and/or
FEAR and/or
Superstition..... and the Ideology of the Past and the Old...

Scientists have a different MINDSET.... which is producing tangible results all day everyday!

Wait & watch.

Cheers.

 

[prasad1]

Hmm, this thread has taken a turn towards the spiritual already. I was also hoping to engage the scientists in the forum.

I see a lot of discussion about atma and soul, but surely that is very human-centric? On the other hand, even fishes, crustaceans and bacteria die. Why? The answer must be independent of whether they have a soul or not.

Is soul, atma or life form any different. You can make the instruments, can you infuse the life form or soul in it.

We can only recreate or research, we have never created something out of nothing.

 

[biswa]

Good, good, now we have more science in the discussion. So here is my question. The body has inherent repair mechanisms which are very effective. There are white blood cells eating up invaders, new skin cells replacing old, new teeth replacing those which fall out (in sharks) etc etc. So either the big G or the big N whoever created these systems by evolution or "intelligent design", has observed the problem of damage and has put in place very elegant mechanisms for mitigating them.

So now the question is why does it not go on for ever? Assuming there is infinite supply of food and conducive weather, we can't we go on synthesizing fat/protein/DNA ad infinitum​?

 

[Yamaka]

Good, good, now we have more science in the discussion. So here is my question. The body has inherent repair mechanisms which are very effective. There are white blood cells eating up invaders, new skin cells replacing old, new teeth replacing those which fall out (in sharks) etc etc. So either the big G or the big N whoever created these systems by evolution or "intelligent design", has observed the problem of damage and has put in place very elegant mechanisms for mitigating them.

So now the question is why does it not go on for ever? Assuming there is infinite supply of food and conducive weather, we can't we go on synthesizing fat/protein/DNA ad infinitum​?

Here's what Science knows so far...and the PROCESS is relentlessly going forward. Whereas G and SNA are the inventions of somebody's brain (of Vedic People/Vyasa/Valmiki/Kamban etc etc. But N = Nature is totally different... Biological Evolution, as a FORCE is totally different from the SNA.

1. Although cells of skin, liver, intestine etc can be easily "repaired" by new proteins, RNA, DNA, fat etc.. some other cells can't be "repaird" at all. For example, some of the motor neurons and highly specialized sensory neurons of the brain. There appears to be a continuum from very "easy repair" to "no repair" at all, depending upon the cells in a tissue in the human (animal) body.

These very sensitive specialized cells are key to the general metabolism and functions of the human body, like breathing and transporting oxygen to the brain etc.

2. These cells, for reasons not evident to Scientists so far, are the KEY to the discussion here.

These cells die, and when this occurs and reaches a "critical mass", we kiss "good bye" to the world around us!


What can a mere man-made "SNA" do here, anyway?

Innum varum...

 

[renuka]

I think if science has to take a step towards immortality, it needs to accept spirituality as a truth. If indeed this is possible, a number of interesting questions would also pop up as a consequence.

Dear Sravna,

You know what!!! Just last night I was thinking..how come Sravna does not put his pic anymore in forum and I thought to myself "I hope he uploads one pic soon" and today when I log in I see your pic here!!!

BTW nice pic.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

You know what!!! Just last night I was thinking..how come Sravna does not put his pic anymore in forum and I thought to myself "I hope he uploads one pic soon" and today when I log in I see your pic here!!!

BTW nice pic.

Thanks Renuka

 

[biswa]

Thanks for the detailed biological explanation. One thing I would like to posit though: cloning is not a way of avoiding death. Just like, having a twin sibling or even children. They are individuals having identical or very similar gene structure, but they are different individuals nevertheless.

Dolly the sheep's clone was more like a twin sister. If Dolly dies, Dolly dies, that's the end of that individual.

 

[Raji Ram]

When science able to give only color dyes for hair but has not found any medicine to retain its original color! There is no

medicine for retaining the skin as young as it is in the teen age. Will it be possible to 'create' life for a man made body? :noidea:

 

[biswa]

Let me also comment on the initial posts of Ms RR and Ms RK. You mention recycling and the need to keep the population in balance. Intriguing ideas. So somebody/something out there cares about all this? Why don't the atoms and molecules just try to proliferate as rapidly as possible and take over everything? Why the need for a cycle and balance?

 

[renuka]

Let me also comment on the initial posts of Ms RR and Ms RK. You mention recycling and the need to keep the population in balance. Intriguing ideas. So somebody/something out there cares about all this? Why don't the atoms and molecules just try to proliferate as rapidly as possible and take over everything? Why the need for a cycle and balance?

Wow Biswa...you are really questioning what needs to be questioned?
I admire you for that since you are bringing out salient facts here.

Yes why the need of a cycle and balance..like an input,output chart we have for inpatients(ok never mind what input or what output).

So I feel basically this cycle balance factor can only happen if we are dealing with
One Entity, now I feel this makes lots of sense.

ॐ पूर्णमदः पूर्णमिदं पूर्णात्पुर्णमुदच्यते
पूर्णश्य पूर्णमादाय पूर्णमेवावशिष्यते ॥
ॐ शान्तिः शान्तिः शान्तिः ॥
Om Puurnnam-Adah Puurnnam-Idam Puurnnaat-Purnnam-Udacyate
Puurnnashya Puurnnam-Aadaaya Puurnnam-Eva-Avashissyate ||
Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih ||

Meaning:
1:That is Full, This also is Full, From Fullness comes that Fullness,
2:Taking Fullness from Fullness, Fullness indeed Remains.
3:Om Peace, Peace, Peace.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Biswa,

A child is born, grows as a teenager, adult, senior, super senior and then leaves this world. At which stage do you wish to

stop the growth, even if there is no death?

 

[biswa]

Ms. RR, with all due respect, I think science is only providing some answers regarding how people age and die. i don't think it still knows why people age and die.

 

[biswa]

Will it be possible to 'create' life for a man made body? :noidea:

Not sure when there may be life in a man made body. So far as I know only a woman can create a body full of life.

 

[biswa]

Dear Biswa,

A child is born, grows as a teenager, adult, senior, super senior and then leaves this world. At which stage do you wish to

stop the growth, even if there is no death?

Ms RR, now we come to the deeper questions. Why all these state changes? Why are we not born in the prime of youth and stay forever young? And I want a scientific answer.

 

[renuka]

Ms RR, now we come to the deeper questions. Why all these state changes? Why are we not born in the prime of youth and stay forever young? And I want a scientific answer.

Ok Biswa..the reproductive tract of a female will sustain 3rd degree tears if a person is born in the prime of youth.

Hey Biswa..just imagine all the deliveries I had conducted before as an intern..just imagine humans are born in the prime of their youth..I just hope they brought their clothes along too.

 

[Raji Ram]

Ms RR, now we come to the deeper questions. Why all these state changes? Why are we not born in the prime of youth and stay forever young? And I want a scientific answer.

Prime of youth!!! Then forget about 'mother' and natural birth... Man has to create a body and think of bringing it to life! ound:

 

[biswa]

Ok Biswa..the reproductive tract of a female will sustain 3rd degree tears if a person is born in the prime of youth.

Hey Biswa..just imagine all the deliveries I had conducted before as an intern..just imagine humans are born in the prime of their youth..I just hope they brought their clothes along too.

No, no that is too scientific an answer. I know I asked for it! Reproduction does not necessarily need to happen in the way we know it happens now.

 

[sravna]

I think one needs to understand spirituality better to attempt at immortality. But, I am of the view that physical immortality is not really possible though lifespan could be considerably extended.

Let us talk about cloning. To create the same self, the soul needs to be the same. Otherwise just as Biswa says, the copy will not be the original. To make the two the same, one has to be the EXACT copying all aspects of the original. But the problem I foresee here is when something is exactly the same, they, I assume occupy the same space time. The trick is we need to simulate transmigration of soul so that once separation of the soul from the original body occurs, it immediately fits into the new body or embryo or whatever.
We need to know a number of things. For example when exactly in the stage of development of the embryo does the soul fit into it? and so on.

 

[Raji Ram]

Not sure when there may be life in a man made body. So far as I know only a woman can create a body full of life.

Even 'mantra's can produce children! We have to ask Kunti Devi for details.

 

[biswa]

Prime of youth!!! Then forget about 'mother' and natural birth... Man has to create a body and think of bringing it to life! ound:

Ms RR: Surely great women (you and RK) think alike!