The Final Problem

[biswa]

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This is a thread about death, the final destination. Fans of Sherlock Holmes may recognize the allusion.

The question I have been thinking is why does everybody (and everything) have to eventually die? People of different caste, creed, religion, language, race, nationality, death spares no one. How is it that we have evolved from single-celled organisms, developed advanced faculties and complicated reasoning abilities, but we still can't cheat death. Sure we have prolonged life span, reduced accidents, cloned DNA, frozen embryos, but still at the end of the day we have to pay death its due. Is it just a limitation of science or is there a bigger design behind all this?

 

[renuka]

This is a thread about death, the final destination. Fans of Sherlock Holmes may recognize the allusion.

The question I have been thinking is why does everybody (and everything) have to eventually die? People of different caste, creed, religion, language, race, nationality, death spares no one. How is it that we have evolved from single-celled organisms, developed advanced faculties and complicated reasoning abilities, but we still can't cheat death. Sure we have prolonged life span, reduced accidents, cloned DNA, frozen embryos, but still at the end of the day we have to pay death its due. Is it just a limitation of science or is there a bigger design behind all this?

It is not a limitation of science but recycling at a larger scale.
Death is just recycling for us Hindus isnt it?
Death isnt the final destination too..its just continuation of the journey.

 

[v arun kumar]

r u planning to put Yaman out of a job @tc

 

[renuka]

r u planning to put Yaman out of a job @tc

Nope...not trying to put Yama out of job but Biswa is being a Nachiketa instead.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Biswa,

Very soon the 65 + population will exceed the under 5 population on the earth!
If there is no death, how will be our planet? :scared:

 

[sravna]

Anything that is physical invariably decays with time. If the decay is to be prevented the only way is to hold it together by spiritual energy. Spiritual energy can even reverse the physical to its more pristine state. I think that is how yogis are able to live a lifespan that is unimaginable normally.

 

[renuka]

Anything that is physical invariably decays with time. If the decay is to be prevented the only way is to hold it together by spiritual energy. Spiritual energy can even reverse the physical to its more pristine state. I think that is how yogis are able to live a lifespan that is unimaginable normally.

Sravna,

I think Yogis are able to "live" by drawing energy from Prana and also by inducing a state of decreased metabolic requirements some what like hibernation state but the difference is they are awake unlike hibernation that induces prolonged sleep.

Even in ordinary people like us when our mind is preoccupied we do not feel hungry or thirsty as much cos we have diverted our attention.

To me whenever I used to read any book of Paramhansa Yogananda somehow I do not feel hungry,thirsty or even tired cos the books can really grab the attention of the reader.

 

[sravna]

Sravna,

I think Yogis are able to "live" by drawing energy from Prana and also by inducing a state of decreased metabolic requirements some what like hibernation state but the difference is they are awake unlike hibernation that induces prolonged sleep.

Even in ordinary people like us when our mind is preoccupied we do not feel hungry or thirsty as much cos we have diverted our attention.

To me whenever I used to read any book of Paramhansa Yogananda somehow I do not feel hungry,thirsty or even tired cos the books can really grab the attention of the reader.

Yes Renuka, activity is disharmonising and to maintain the harmony we require energy but if we are able to not let it get disharmonised, by harmonising with spiritual energy such as thoughts, decay wouldn't happen or at least be slowed down considerably, right?

 

[renuka]

Yes Renuka, activity is disharmonising and to maintain the harmony we require energy but if we are able to not let it get disharmonised, by harmonising with spiritual energy such as thoughts, decay wouldn't happen or at least be slowed down considerably, right?

Dear Sravna,

I would not want to say that activity is disharmonizing cos even breathing is an activity and its synchronized activity is vital for survival.

Even meditation is an activity which I would never want to term disharmonizing.

I think may be what you are trying to get at is to synchronize the flow of energy in the right direction so that it is used only for what is actually vital and wastage of energy does not happen.

Unwanted activity uses up lots of stored energy and that also affects the state of health and increases cellular aging.

Harmonizing/Synchronizing of spiritual energy is only possible when we are willing to focus our intellect and play every note of the Divine Cosmic Orchestra Music Director.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

I would not want to say that activity is disharmonizing cos even breathing is an activity and its synchronized activity is vital for survival.

Even meditation is an activity which I would never want to term disharmonizing.

I think may be what you are trying to get at is to synchronize the flow of energy in the right direction so that it is used only for what is actually vital and wastage of energy does not happen.

Unwanted activity uses up lots of stored energy and that also affects the state of health and increases cellular aging.

Harmonizing/Synchronizing of spiritual energy is only possible when we are willing to focus our intellect and play every note of the Divine Cosmic Orchestra Music Director

Dear Renuka,

This is how I see it. I view anything that move towards the physical as disharmonising. And anything that reduces the bonding in a physical entity as making that more physical because generally, bonding happens as a way of evolution, and so the reverse effect is to become more physical. And if anything is indivisible, I assume as an electron is, the activity manifests as increase in mass, making it more physical. It is in that sense I said activity is disharmonising, though some like breathing are essential for survival and the ones like meditation are more a state of stillness than activity.

Anyway, the larger point is thoughts of the people such as the yogis have that power to act as spiritual energy and let them accomplish what they desire even, suspending physical decay.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

Is it true that every person on earth is bestowed with particular number of breaths and if he is able to lessen the speed of his

breath, he will live longer? May be true, because Yogis could stop their breathing during meditation and lived longer!

 

[ozone]

Dear Renu,

Is it true that every person on earth is bestowed with particular number of breaths and if he is able to lessen the speed of his

breath, he will live longer? May be true, because Yogis could stop their breathing during meditation and lived longer!

A while back there was a post by Sri London Swaminathan on how a Tortoise lives for 300 Years by slowing its breath.
(and there were some counter questions about what the Tortoise achieves by staying live so long)

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu,

Is it true that every person on earth is bestowed with particular number of breaths and if he is able to lessen the speed of his

breath, he will live longer? May be true, because Yogis could stop their breathing during meditation and lived longer!

Thats what I had read(non medical) but I dont know how true that is cos in that case I expect singers to be dropping dead the soonest followed by those who exercise regularly cos regular physical exercise and singing use up many breaths.
But its not always like that isnt it?

I feel its cutting down in the energy requirement as in Basal Metabolic Rate more than the number of breaths actually.

Lets see the longest living animal is the tortoise of the galapagos island..I must look up about its metabolic rate...may be thats how the tortoise won the race with the rabbit/hare.

 

[Raji Ram]

A while back there was a post by Sri London Swaminathan on how a Tortoise lives for 300 Years by slowing its breath.
(and there were some counter questions about what the Tortoise achieves by staying live so long)

It becomes slower and may develope more patience!! eace:

 

[Raji Ram]

Thats what I had read(non medical) but I dont know how true that is cos in that case I expect singers to be dropping dead the soonest followed by those who exercise regularly cos regular physical exercise and singing use up many breaths..........

No Renu! Actually singers should have more breath control and should be able to hold their breath for a long time.

When they separate the phrases, one breath is stopped several times in the middle. That is how it is.

You must have heard Sri. SPB's song with a lo...........ng phrase in one breath!

 

[sarang]

In one tv interview spb said the he will later reveal how it was recorded. Similarly, how kamalhasan acted as a dwarf in a film. I wonder whether these secrets were ever revealed.

And this story about a tone deaf king gifting his ratnaharam, after a nadaswaram katcheri to the 'othuoodaravr' because the king thought that he did the most difficult task of holding his breath for hours!

You must have heard Sri. SPB's song with a lo...........ng phrase in one breath!

 

[Raji Ram]

In one tv interview spb said the he will later reveal how it was recorded. ......

It might be a recording trick. But a successful singer has to have good breath control and should never take short breaths!! :lalala:

 

[sarang]

Yes.

It might be a recording trick. But a successful singer has to have good breath control and should never take short breaths!! :lalala:

 

[sravna]

Shri Biswa said:

This is a thread about death, the final destination. Fans of Sherlock Holmes may recognize the allusion.

The question I have been thinking is why does everybody (and everything) have to eventually die? People of different caste, creed, religion, language, race, nationality, death spares no one. How is it that we have evolved from single-celled organisms, developed advanced faculties and complicated reasoning abilities, but we still can't cheat death. Sure we have prolonged life span, reduced accidents, cloned DNA, frozen embryos, but still at the end of the day we have to pay death its due. Is it just a limitation of science or is there a bigger design behind all this?

We have discussed this before. Cloning per se is not the solution. But I think there is a way out of it. It can be accomplished in principle by transmigration of soul. That's how you preserve the real self. For that the soul has to "fit into" the newly created body.
I think this is not impossible.

 

[renuka]

We have discussed this before. Cloning per se is not the solution. But I think there is a way out of it. It can be accomplished in principle by transmigration of soul. That's how you preserve the real self. For that the soul has to "fit into" the newly created body.
I think this is not impossible.

Cloning only creates a identical physical body but not an identical Subtle Body+Atma complex.

Transmigration of the Soul was done by Adi Shankara when He inhabited the deceased Kings body in order to experience life as a Householder.

 

[sravna]

Cloning only creates a identical physical body but not an identical Subtle Body+Atma complex.

Transmigration of the Soul was done by Adi Shankara when He inhabited the deceased Kings body in order to experience life as a Householder.

So IMO, the problem is not to just get the right parts but figure how they interconnect to form the whole. Just as after death a soul fits in to another body or in transmigration it enters another body, the soul can fit the new body.

 

[sravna]

So I think the cloning has to be fine enough to create the same whole

 

[renuka]

So IMO, the problem is not to just get the right parts but figure how they interconnect to form the whole. Just as after death a soul fits in to another body or in transmigration it enters another body, the soul can fit the new body.

We need a Subtle Body+Atma complex data base for this to happen.

 

[prasad1]

Psychologists, psychiatrists and anthropologists, including ​

Sigmund Freud

, Otto Rank and Ernest Becker, have all identified our underlying, unconscious fear of death as the underlying force determining much of the way we live. The desire to deny the reality of death, the theory goes, makes us want to find a way to “live on,” whether through our children, or by attaching ourselves to causes that will not be buried along with us.​

Read more: Why Denying Death Means Denying Life | Fox News


So if we were to live for ever, we must not age beyond say 21. So we must be able to arrest aging at an earlier time. Can you imagine the population growth? Then we will be playing God.

I for one is happy with the status quo. I have no desire to prolong life at this stage of life.​

 

[sravna]

I think if science has to take a step towards immortality, it needs to accept spirituality as a truth. If indeed this is possible, a number of interesting questions would also pop up as a consequence.