the election results ...

[happyhindu]

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SS,


If you really wish to re-write history, you may find many things that may go against the interests of present day communities. And there will be plenty waiting to take advantage of it. To a dalit, the dharmasutras cud come across as his biggest curse. Can you prevent a dalit from getting enranged and seeking revenge, if he so wishes to settle his score in the present time; if reasoning out does not work... (??)


Another example was the LTTE. One wud think why did a tamil nationalist group display a shade of anti-brahmanism as an integral part of ancient-tamil-pride. Many hill tamils (ltte cadres) are / were ppl who wud come under the so-called 'low caste' category in the current period, though their past was rather different in terms of not being restricted to rigid varna (it seems that the whole idea of rigid varna set in from the time of medieval cholas, not prior to that)..whether true or not, whatever may be old history, it is not meant to rake up emotions or create a vengeful attitude, but how many in the common masses have that emotional maturity? And if it does lead to formation of ideology groups seeking redemption of old pride (like ex-ltte guys), will it not result in bloodshed?


I do not think that re-writing history can actually help anyone improve their life in the present time. It has nothing to do with dharma or ahimsa as possibly selective history against muslims alone. I have said my end. And herewith conclude my postings in this thread.


Regards.

Also, the fact that we follow (or at least try to) 'dharma' cannot be equated to mean that we cannot go offensive... ahimsa is indeed a great virtue, but there are phases when mere ahimsa would not work...

Dharma works only when everyone discharge their duties sincerely... But when the doer fails in his duty, what should one do? Is it not his duty to take steps to correct it?

Similarly, when we have a maligned and fabricated history upon which a certain group place their claims, their stance needs to be corrected... and rectified - to show the correct perspective, so that we may learn the right thing!

Sanathana dharma does not imply on us not to use force; neither does it imply that we have to remain a mute spectator hoping that eventually things might turnaround...

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

hh, I think you are mixing up sentiments and facts here... What has the fact that the destruction of a particular temple was the origins of a mosque go to do with dharmashasthras or dalits?

Dharmashasthras remain even now; they do not change - only the application changes (the seers mention this in the shasthras themselves)...

The idea that tamils are low caste has its origins, I think, in a western perception... the festivals and the fervour with which we worship is seen as either devil worship or black magic by the European christians (when they first came to India) controlled by brahmins who were probably equal to shamans ... their perceptions were coloured by this thought and hence all history, analysis tends to agree with this... only when a person experiences a culture, he would be in a position to critically examine it...

That is why I say that history has to be re-written, to correct the disorders that have been included to suit certain groups...

And you say that you are content with twisted history...

I do not think that re-writing history can actually help anyone improve their life in the present time. It has nothing to do with dharma or ahimsa as possibly selective history against muslims alone.

First thing - nobody said that history should be selectively re-written..

You are missing the ground reality here - All this twisted piece of history is used to slander our culture and put in full use by the missionaries... Wont it restore a sense of pride in our existing culture? Morale, confidence... I have already mentioned this in an earlier post...

If you got to relate every aspect of activity to improvement of living conditions of a person, then am sorry you are grossly mistaken in your approach... I can quote several activities that we do that does not at all improve life...

So please do not put that argument forward - it comes from only a resigned mentality... or to put it differently, it would be ok if everyone has the same attitude...

And the part relating to ahimsa and dharma was to shri KRS (his last para in his previous post)... you have mixed it up with history again...!

Regards,

 

[happyhindu]

ss,

hh, i think you are mixing up sentiments and facts here...

i agree. You have every right to consider me resigned to a fatalistic attitude in this whole scenario of "re-writing history".

what has the fact that the destruction of a particular temple was the origins of a mosque go to do with dharmashasthras or dalits?

why do you wish to only re-write history parts that are intended to nail muslims alone? Why not re-write all parts of history. Why not explore reasons why the dharmasutras intended to have ridiculous non-executable punishments for shudras? Why not set history straight and return former-jain-now-hindu temples to the jains if you are so bothered about gaining back the rights of a particular hindu temple?

dharmashasthras remain even now; they do not change - only the application changes (the seers mention this in the shasthras themselves)...

no comments. Not inclined to talk abt the role of dharmasutras.

the idea that tamils are low caste has its origins, i think, in a western perception... The festivals and the fervour with which we worship is seen as either devil worship or black magic by the european christians (when they first came to india) controlled by brahmins who were probably equal to shamans ... Their perceptions were coloured by this thought and hence all history, analysis tends to agree with this... Only when a person experiences a culture, he would be in a position to critically examine it...

tamils themselves say it is the brahmins who treat them as low-caste, when they do not consider themselves or treat each other as such. (btw, black magic tantra vidya was not exactly restricted to certain groups or present day village mendicants or shamans either). its pointless to go into the whiteman's perceptions..

that is why i say that history has to be re-written, to correct the disorders that have been included to suit certain groups...

you probably will come more disorders from areas that you least expect to find.

and you say that you are content with twisted history...

did i say i am content with twisted history. I only said its better to let lying dogs lie. You do not want them to become crazy and go around seeking redressel, do you..

first thing - nobody said that history should be selectively re-written..

You are missing the ground reality here - all this twisted piece of history is used to slander our culture and put in full use by the missionaries... Wont it restore a sense of pride in our existing culture? Morale, confidence... I have already mentioned this in an earlier post...

If you wish to fix wrong history, so be it. Good luck to you. From my end, i do not need morale or confidence coming from scriptural or historical basis.

if you got to relate every aspect of activity to improvement of living conditions of a person, then am sorry you are grossly mistaken in your approach... I can quote several activities that we do that does not at all improve life...

hmm....if re-writing history is an activity that will not help improve life, then well i do not need it. Who am i to stop you from needing it? If it so bothers you, please go ahead. I only put forth my side that everyone may not be inclined to agree in that direction.

so please do not put that argument forward - it comes from only a resigned mentality... Or to put it differently, it would be ok if everyone has the same attitude...

yep, as mentioned earlier, it is resigned mentality. Whether you or me are interested or not, people will keep exploring to set right things as they see it from their perspective...

and the part relating to ahimsa and dharma was to shri krs (his last para in his previous post)... You have mixed it up with history again...!

thanks for the clarification....bye.

regards,

 

[vivekam.vairagyam]

some more food for thot ....

http://satyabhashnam.blogspot.com/2009/05/ayodhya-muslim-argument-examined.html

http://psenthilraja.wordpress.com/tag/learning-history/

http://psenthilraja.wordpress.com/2008/03/29/media-bias-eraiyur-christian-caste-clash/

http://psenthilraja.wordpress.com/2009/05/24/remote-controlling-evm-manufacturing-election-result/

http://psenthilraja.wordpress.com/2...you-wont-get-to-seeread-in-our-secular-media/

 

[sapr333]

Just sneaked in...

Thought of exiting this forum a week ago, but then I couldn't resist myself,in sharing my views in-ine with Seshadri Subramaniam... Indeed, he shares some valid thoughts..


As the saying goes "History is written by Winners" Any takers??

 

[happyhindu]

As the saying goes "History is written by Winners" Any takers??

It wud apply to when history is clear-cut and limited. When indian history is so jumbled up, wonder who got / gets to write it.

Those who talk about history shd also know that the laws of 10th century do not apply now. Therefore going by the current legal framework those who indulge in demolishing a mosque or any place of worship are liable to be tried by law.

And who had ever heard of ram sena and durga sena before the mangalore pub incident, obviously bjp supporters, workers, volunteeers were taken aback by the talibanizing retrograde attitude.

And how many ppl in the south have ever heard of a unit called ranvir sena operating in the cow belt. Wonder how many more senas will come out in future. Perhaps there will be one sena re-writing history in future.

 

[hariharan1972]

And how many ppl in the south have ever heard of a unit called ranvir sena operating in the cow belt. Wonder how many more senas will come out in future.

I have heard.

Ranvir Sena is the thuggery unit of the upper caste Thakurs of Bihar who specialise in terrorising the Dalits.

HH-ji, north of Vindhyas the biggest trouble makers for the Dalits are not the brahmins but the Yadavs and other OBCs. Classic case in point is the antagonism that exists between Samajwadi party and BSP in UP.

Perhaps there will be one sena re-writing history in future.

Bingo ! We need a "rewrite sena" to handle the corrections to history.

Anyways, I think it is time we move on from the temple issue to actually discussing something else in this topic. Like priorities for the new Govt ?

 

[happyhindu]

hh-ji,

Ranvir Sena is the thuggery unit of the upper caste Thakurs of Bihar who specialise in terrorising the Dalits.

and i wonder why on earth is it linked to the BJP...

[addition: was reading page 53 to 57 in this on google books: http://books.google.com.sg/books?id=Kd28Ay09adgC&printsec=frontcover it seems the bhumihars support bjp in return for stuff.. and page 141 to 146 in this: http://books.google.com.sg/books?id=xFw6aBjJOKsC&printsec=frontcover and this is quite a list of attrocities: http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/terroristoutfits/Ranvir_Sena.htm

Ranvir Sena was started by the Bhumihars and the Brahmins: http://jaibihar.com/charges-framed-in-laxmanpur-bathe-massacre-case/1510/ There was also a Brahmrishi Sena: http://www.hindu.com/fline/fl1919/19190330.htm -- bhoomi sena, azad sena, shrikrishna sena, mandal sena, kuer sena...all sorts of private armies, there is also one Dalit Sena..]

HH-ji, north of Vindhyas the biggest trouble makers for the Dalits are not the brahmins but the Yadavs and other OBCs. Classic case in point is the antagonism that exists between Samajwadi party and BSP in UP.

the documentary Cooking in Danger Zone on BBC plus all kinds of discussions of various blogs seem to show that the Ranvir Sena is manned by a combo of thakurs and brahmins. the thakurs it seems are brahmins or have either promoted themselves or in the process of promoting themselves as such; the past demotion and jumbled up history not withstanding...the funny part is the further division into various squabbling groups....

Bingo ! We need a "rewrite sena" to handle the corrections to history.

No worries. Going by the rate that the current hindutva groups are going, we will soon see a Rewrite Sena i suppose..

Anyways, I think it is time we move on from the temple issue to actually discussing something else in this topic. Like priorities for the new Govt ?

Yep, its enuf of this topic..

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri SS Ji,

Who defines today's Dharma? As Sri Kunjuppu Ji once pointed out, our police and military are the properly sanctioned kashtrias of out times. And since the government can be changed by ballot, this idea of having a kshatria force to defend some 'perceived' dharma for a religion is itself 'adharma'.

Ahimsa is one preferred method of acheiving a result and it can not be applied in all situations as Gandhi Ji has claimed. I respectfully disagree with him on that. At the same time the 'dhanda' of the four methods of persuasion can only be applied by the legally sanctioned entity. Anything outside of it, because a few people believe that they are defending some 'Dharma' is clearly anarchy and does not belong in the modern set up.

This is one of the common problems with all the fundamentalists in any religion. They think that they can take our civilization back to their own envisioned 'golden ages', by employing violence. This type of behaviour is not sanctioned in any religion. Force and violence outside of a legal framework adopted by a country falls within the rule by a 'mob'.

Regards,
KRS

Also, the fact that we follow (or at least try to) 'dharma' cannot be equated to mean that we cannot go offensive... ahimsa is indeed a great virtue, but there are phases when mere ahimsa would not work...

Dharma works only when everyone discharge their duties sincerely... But when the doer fails in his duty, what should one do? Is it not his duty to take steps to correct it?

Similarly, when we have a maligned and fabricated history upon which a certain group place their claims, their stance needs to be corrected... and rectified - to show the correct perspective, so that we may learn the right thing!

Sanathana dharma does not imply on us not to use force; neither does it imply that we have to remain a mute spectator hoping that eventually things might turnaround...

 

[s007bala]

re

ss

i am so unhappy that bjp lost big time:brick:

but congrats to rahul,he really pulled it off in U.P.chip of the old block :hat:

sb

 

[vivekam.vairagyam]

when churches and mullahs call upon their flock to vote for candidates who openly promote , often unconstitutional , preveliges to them , they are not called communal or divisive ... but when votes are sought to safeguard hindu interests ....... ? can one decide which community has first right to the nation 's resources ..... and it is totally secular ?

 

[vivekam.vairagyam]

effects of such practices and are these communal practices?

http://rajeev2004.blogspot.com/2009/05/see-how-kanyakumari-voted-secularism-in.html

Hindus in Kanyakumari being tormented.

http://rajeev2004.blogspot.com/2009/05/video-on-hindus-being-tormented-by.html



demolition of hanuman statue

http://satyabhashnam.blogspot.com/2009/05/christian-terror-kanya-kumari-taliban.h

 

[vivekam.vairagyam]

some more food for thot ....

http://satyabhashnam.blogspot.com/2009/05/ayodhya-muslim-argument-examined.html

http://psenthilraja.wordpress.com/tag/learning-history/

http://psenthilraja.wordpress.com/2008/03/29/media-bias-eraiyur-christian-caste-clash/

http://psenthilraja.wordpress.com/2009/05/24/remote-controlling-evm-manufacturing-election-result/

http://psenthilraja.wordpress.com/2...you-wont-get-to-seeread-in-our-secular-media/

wonder if someone had any comments on these links too .... ?

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri VV Ji,

I don't understand your posting.

So, is your argument that no religious organization should be allowed to tell their people who to vote for, based on their self interest?

Or is your argument that the we as Hindus are not allowed to do the same?

Seems to me, either way, this is exactly the type of argument that the Hidutva forces are making, without any sense. No one is asking us not to tell 'our' people how to vote. The truth is, every minority group is free to pursue it's self interest. The only way to counter is through the electoral mobilization of the majority, which the so called 'Hindu interest spokesman BJP' could not do. By following asinine policies, which have nothing to do in safeguarding the Hindu interests (remember their actions in TN after the Kanchi Acharyal episode?) and by talking with both sides of their mouth, they have lost their credibility among the Hindu majority. This is a self inflicted wound, has nothing to do with how other religions voted.

In your frustration of not being able to muster the Hindu vote, you are trying to find an external enemy. Wake up. You are seeing democracy in action!

Regards,
KRS

when churches and mullahs call upon their flock to vote for candidates who openly promote , often unconstitutional , preveliges to them , they are not called communal or divisive ... but when votes are sought to safeguard hindu interests ....... ? can one decide which community has first right to the nation 's resources ..... and it is totally secular ?

 

[vivekam.vairagyam]

krs-ji

Dear Sri VV Ji,

I don't understand your posting.

So, is your argument that no religious organization should be allowed to tell their people who to vote for, based on their self interest?

Or is your argument that the we as Hindus are not allowed to do the same?

Seems to me, either way, this is exactly the type of argument that the Hidutva forces are making, without any sense. No one is asking us not to tell 'our' people how to vote. The truth is, every minority group is free to pursue it's self interest. The only way to counter is through the electoral mobilization of the majority, which the so called 'Hindu interest spokesman BJP' could not do. By following asinine policies, which have nothing to do in safeguarding the Hindu interests (remember their actions in TN after the Kanchi Acharyal episode?) and by talking with both sides of their mouth, they have lost their credibility among the Hindu majority. This is a self inflicted wound, has nothing to do with how other religions voted.

yes , in a truly secular democracy there needs to be absolute separation of religion and state , but till then it must be possible for all religions to "equally interfere and partake " of the political process , but in our society today hindus are not allowed to do exactly wht other communities do , in the name of communalism , by the media and so many other vested & relgious interests ... this is one continuing evil we are gonna contend with till remedial measures like the uniform civil code can be achieved ...


wht i say is different from those of the bjp in the sense that the bjp has totally lost its purpose ,

it is meant to be a political voice for the fair rights and fruits of the hindu community while still engaging other communities both in terms of wht they do right and wrong ,

instead bjp either keeps barking like a dog or becomes sycophantic to please other communites to the extent that the injustice committed goes under the carpet ...

it is the job of the bjp to firmly place the voice and rights of the hindus in the political sphere while also engaging other communities ...

while being able to welcome their support when offered voluntarily , the bjp must be able to take on anyone who intends hurt to the democracy , even while staying focussed on the needs of the hindu community ,

the bjp will never be seen as truly friendly by the church or the mullahs , so stop trying to please them , instead engage them ...

In your frustration of not being able to muster the Hindu vote, you are trying to find an external enemy. Wake up. You are seeing democracy in action!

where did u divine frustration from ? far from it , it is just an interest to listen to such enlightened opinions as urs that makes me present comments inviting opinions ....

Regards,
KRS

thnk u ji.

 

[vivekam.vairagyam]

@ all ,

pls do post ur observations specifically on the kanyakumari links and on the links from senthilraja's blog

thnk u ji.

 

[GopalaswamyShridharan]

re

vivekam vairagyam

BJP will come back sooner or later as an alternative to congress.But for now Congress is in the drivers seat.

Congress will steer the country in a more positive manner than during its previous rule with its allies.

gopal

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri VV Ji,

Thank you for your response.

You said:
yes , in a truly secular democracy there needs to be absolute separation of religion and state , but till then it must be possible for all religions to "equally interfere and partake " of the political process , but in our society today hindus are not allowed to do exactly wht other communities do , in the name of communalism , by the media and so many other vested & relgious interests ... this is one continuing evil we are gonna contend with till remedial measures like the uniform civil code can be achieved ...

Can you enumerate on what the media and others are preventing us to do in the name of 'communalism' that other communities are allowed to do? I do not understand.

By the way, not having a uniform UCC affects us Hindus only in one way. That it would promote every one to think as Indians first. All other reasons cited by the Hindutva crowd are bogus:
1. Muslims are growing much faster than the Hindus is shown to be bogus. The relative populations will remain the same for a long time to come.
2. Let us take polygamy. I asked you whether you knew what is the percentage of Indian muslims have multiple wives. This was a deliberate question on my part, you have avoided answering. You see sir, the number of births and thereby the increase in population only depends on the child bearing women bearing children and not the men. Given that in India, where the muslim women population is slightly less than the muslim men population, if there is a huge percentage of polygamy, then you would have a very high percentage of muslim men being bachelors for life. No such thing exists. Secondly, I would argue that polygamy actually decreases the population increase and not the other way around, because those women married to a polygamist if in monogamist marriages probably would produce more children, without any emcumbrances.

3. It has been shown that the muslims choose the same life pattern as the Hindus in terms of family planning if they are educated. As I have said, they lag behind the national averages in literacy rate for men and more so for women. When this improves, their population increase will actually decline.

wht i say is different from those of the bjp in the sense that the bjp has totally lost its purpose ,

it is meant to be a political voice for the fair rights and fruits of the hindu community while still engaging other communities both in terms of wht they do right and wrong ,

instead bjp either keeps barking like a dog or becomes sycophantic to please other communites to the extent that the injustice committed goes under the carpet ...

it is the job of the bjp to firmly place the voice and rights of the hindus in the political sphere while also engaging other communities ...

while being able to welcome their support when offered voluntarily , the bjp must be able to take on anyone who intends hurt to the democracy , even while staying focussed on the needs of the hindu community ,

the bjp will never be seen as truly friendly by the church or the mullahs , so stop trying to please them , instead engage them ..

Again, I disagree with your last statement, completely. If BJP puts the interests of the country first and has a credible growth agenda for all communities instead of just us, the Hindus. The only way India is going to have a UCC is if all other communities see the value and logic in it. You can only attain this by making the minorities grow in equal prosperity and they start thinking that they are perceived by us as full Indians.

where did u divine frustration from ? far from it , it is just an interest to listen to such enlightened opinions as urs that makes me present comments inviting opinions ....
Thank you, but I meant your posting several blogs, with definite anti minority slant.

Regards,
KRS

 

[sapr333]

@ all ,

pls do post ur observations specifically on the kanyakumari links and on the links from senthilraja's blog

thnk u ji.

Dear VV, out there Christians represent 44.4% (wiki data), but still if you analyase the past election results, it proves KRS right, in saying, "Democracy is at work"

Ex C.M Kamaraj (a hindu) contested in Kannyakumar and won against a native christian, where as, he lost agaist a hindu in his hometown Virudunagar.Pls ponder..I was looking at the election data, before 80's, majority of the MLA/MP's in KK dt were hindus. DMK was never voted to power before...As Mu.Ka says,'Nellai enathu ellai(border), kumari yenathu thollai(trouble)'

Looking back to 50"s, this district people, fought against kerala and joined T.N. Had it been on religious fanatism, it would have opted be with Kerala. This district elders thankfully remeber the great jobs done by Dewan C.P.Ramasamy Iyer (A park and statue exists in his name) and Marshal Nesamony,again a hindu Christian unity. Keep in mind, you will not find any anti-brahminism/Caste clashes, in this district, unlike Northern T.N dts.

It ranks top in T.N literacy, and hindus and christians were equally educated, though, there is monopoly of Christian institutions.

It all happened in the 80"s, when Thanulinga Nadar,Ex,M.P, who didnt get the congress ticket, started a movement called "Hindu Munnani" for personal political gains. This movement quickly got popularity,in a time, RSS/SangParivar/Sena were unknown in down south. And his first achievement... 10 Christian fishermens were killed in a police firing and the entire district was shut down for 2 weeks. Results,in the next legislative election, Hindu Munnani won the first MLA seat in T.N. And B.J.P won its first M.P seat in South India (with the help of Christian fisherman votes), through the same Radhakrishnan, who lost now. And this time, its a 4 corner contest, 3 Christians against a hindu.. Still a christian won..If church could influence voters, then how Goa/Kannyakumari could be ruled by BJP??

To conclude, electorates are not fools. One cannot fool for a long time in the name of Caste/Religion/lingua etc, and its very much evident from this current election results. Columnist M.J.Akbar says "Middle class and poor voters ,now,wants to be identified and be a part of the the shining/ economically growing India.. They dont want to be a part of any religious or caste identities.

As KRS put it rightly, "Democracy is at work' ... Yes indeed.

 

[sapr333]

VV>>when churches and mullahs call upon their flock to vote for candidates who openly promote , often unconstitutional , preveliges to them , they are not called communal or divisive>>


KRS>>So, is your argument that no religious organization should be allowed to tell their people who to vote for, based on their self interest?


The king is the administrative head & religious leader is a spiritual head. Since democracy clearly differentiates State & Religion, Im sure, each heads should stay within their limits.

In my view, religious leaders (be it minority or majority) should not canvass for candidates. Thats not their cup of tea.

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8woHykQgB8&NR=1

Hindus generally do not react, apart from being helpless spectators... even if they react, they are termed hindutva extremists...

But the christians are truly secular, it seems... this video depicts the practical nature of the aggression by the community...

As some believe, the 'Law' will take care...???

 

[KRS]

I agree. But in a democracy, that should be voluntary. I do not want to edict it. Religious authority who explicitly take part in politics like that over time will lose credibility.

Regards,
KRS

VV>>when churches and mullahs call upon their flock to vote for candidates who openly promote , often unconstitutional , preveliges to them , they are not called communal or divisive>>


KRS>>So, is your argument that no religious organization should be allowed to tell their people who to vote for, based on their self interest?


The king is the administrative head & religious leader is a spiritual head. Since democracy clearly differentiates State & Religion, Im sure, each heads should stay within their limits.

In my view, religious leaders (be it minority or majority) should not canvass for candidates. Thats not their cup of tea.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri SS,

I watched this about two years ago on Youtube. Obviously the Hindu man found a way to broadcast their issues. I bet that he and his fellow hindus also took this to court.

When I google, I only see Cauvery Layout Hebbal news/properties today, not St. Anthony's Layout. Seems to me that this issue has been handled properly without violence.

Tell me if I am wrong. But these types of community mis-understandings on all sides should be resolved with wit, wisdom and within the laws. I do not see anything different here to deviate from it.

These types of one off incidents only help paint whole communities with one broad brush. I read somewhere a few months ago in a town (Nagar Koil may be), where the Christian Community drove out a new pastor who was telling them not to trust and work with the Hindu community with whom they had excellent relationship. We somehow do not highlight those incidents.

Regards,
KRS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8woHykQgB8&NR=1

Hindus generally do not react, apart from being helpless spectators... even if they react, they are termed hindutva extremists...

But the christians are truly secular, it seems... this video depicts the practical nature of the aggression by the community...

As some believe, the 'Law' will take care...???

 

[sapr333]

Hindus generally do not react, apart from being helpless spectators... even if they react, they are termed hindutva extremists...

But the christians are truly secular, it seems... this video depicts the practical nature of the aggression by the community.

Dear Sesh,

I have watched that video. One can quote thousands of such videos to prove their point.. lets attack this issue in a broad way..

Secularism is often associated with the Age of Enlightenment in Europe, and plays a major role in Western society, in a time, when Church's (esp Vatican) authority was too high iron fisted on the citizens & kings. The principles of separation of church and state in Laïcité in France draw heavily on secularism and it was the beginning. Majority of the Christian populated states are secular states,formed in line with J.C's teaching, "Then give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's.In India secularism was thrusted upon us by Brits.

For eg, removal of 'Ten Commandments tablet from American Courts,approval of Abortion, euthnesia,gay-marriage are all the results of secularism,though church is against that.

There is definitely some drawback with Secularism in terms of morals and ethics. Many a Shariah experts attribute the loose morality of U.S teens/Crime/drug to American secularism& democracy(which allows relative morals).Again, those Shariah countries are again, not doing a worthy job

In my view, secularism should work in tandom in consultation with the religion, especially, on Moral & ethical issues,because politicans are not experts in this subject. For eg, just because India is secular and democratic and has 2/3 majority in parliament, we cannot permit cow-slaughter, because of our religious sentiments.Religions do have a consulting role in a True Secular State. Many of the countries generally draw the constitution based 'Religious principles' and leave it to the hands of the Legislators as a broad guideline of Moral/ethical governance.
,

 

[happyhindu]

Religions do have a consulting role in a True Secular State. Many of the countries generally draw the constitution based 'Religious principles' and leave it to the hands of the Legislators as a broad guideline of Moral/ethical governance.

i suppose secular constitutions give equal representation to all religions. when only one religion interferes in state it makes the other people uncomfortable. religion can interefere in state to the extent that government agencies fund missionary work in some countries for example. india wud never do that, with any religion. we are secular because we allow each of us the freedom to follow each one's own religion. and have a consitution and judiciary aimed at protecting everybody's right to practice each one's own faith. am not against any religion, the only prob i have is with those kind of aggressive missionaries that go vanadalizing scriptures, insulting religious sentiments and turn people against their own.