temple priests

[sarathy]

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i dont understand.
GPS

 

[silverfox]

Alexevelyn:

What the hell is this all about? You must have wandered into the wrong site!!

 

[Ramachander]

Dear Friends,
I agree with you that the temple agamas should be followed and no government has the right to change them.But I have a few thoughts about temple priests to share with you:-
1. Most of them are extremely poor. Since they are trained only in Agamas, most of them cannot become Purohiths.
2.The Brahmin society looks down upon the temple priests asa comunity. It is almost impossible for a temple priest to get an educated working bride.It is also extremely difficult to get his children married(boy or girl) for a temple priest.
3.Most of us are not concerned about their welfare.
P.R.Ramachander

 

[sarathy]

hindu religious practitioners course

To Ramchandar,
nice reply.
you are right.
we agree.
let us start finding sources of improvments.
one such way is education .
thank you .
GPS

 

[goundamani]

Friends,

What is wrong if people from other castes become priests?If they are trained in chanting manthras and temple rituals what else do we need?When people from other castes can become scientists and doctors by training and education,why not temple priests?

I think such a move will strengthen our religion and also will go a long way in removing the bhramin-nonbhramin divide.I hope that this law is made applicable to all temples in India.

 

[Ramachander]

Agamas

Dear Friend,
All these practices are a matter of faith and not logic.Our Agama sasthras say that a particular community should do pooja.We have faith in these sasthras.Similar to this is
a.The mariamma temples , the poojari belongs to another caste
b.ManiyakkaraN OF A VILLAGE BELONGS TO ANOTHER CASTE
c.WE remove our shirt while doing religious duties
d.We cover our heads while entering Gurudwara
and so on
Let us respect our faith.Ramachander

 

[goundamani]

Dear Ramachandar,

Is a muslim free to follow his faith of jihad?Or is a hindu woman free to follow her faith in sathi,child marriages,and preventing widow remarriages?

Any faith can be followed as long as it is not affecting others,or discriminating others unfairly.If anybody changes his poonol according to shastras inside his house or marries a woman of his caste they all cannot be prevented by anybody.

But we cannot impose our faith on others.How can I tell to somebody who belongs to other caste that "you are not allowed to do poojas,because it is my faith?".Our faith should be in our heart.It should not come out in public affecting or discriminatring others.

If somebody prevents dalits from entering temples citing same agamas and shastras is it fair?If somebody follows untouchability citing agamas and shastras is it fair?

Blind faith will destroy our society.Blind faith can be followed in private,but it cannot be imposed on another person.


In a democracy nobody has any rights to say "you should not do a lawful profession,because it is my faith".

 

[goundamani]

Dear Friend,
All these practices are a matter of faith and not logic.Our Agama sasthras say that a particular community should do pooja.We have faith in these sasthras.Similar to this is
a.The mariamma temples , the poojari belongs to another caste
b.ManiyakkaraN OF A VILLAGE BELONGS TO ANOTHER CASTE
c.WE remove our shirt while doing religious duties
d.We cover our heads while entering Gurudwara
and so on
Let us respect our faith.Ramachander

How did dalits become poojaris in mariamman temples?They built their own temples because they were not allowed entry into temples till 1947.They became poojaris of their own temples because none of the us were willing to become poojaris in temples in slums.As a result they started offering liqour,meat and arrack to our gods ,because thats what they eat and none of us educated them about how to do poojas are ahamas.

So what is the point in saying dalits only are poojaris in mariamman temple?How many of us are willing to become poojaris in dalit temples?Dont cite salary as a reason for not working there.when dalit poojaris can work for a pittance anybody can work like that.They do such a job because of their love on mariamman.Whose devotion is higher?Ours or his?

Men not wearing shirts inside temples and covering heads in gurudvaras is common for all men.If anybody says "only upper caste men should remove shirts" it is discrimination.But saying "lower caste men cannot do poojas is discrimination based on caste".Both cannot be equated.

 

[Ramachander]

Temple priests

Dear Friend,
What you say is not quite correct. Mariamman temples , Ayyanar Temples etc had their own priests who are not brahmins(not always dalits) long , long before anything was known about rights of individuals. I am sorry that you are misunderstanding my intention. The faith that a Brahmin was to be a priest, even today , is not only held by brahmins but good number of others.As I told in the first letter , these brahmin priess are the poorest lot, who do not have recognition in the society they live.Very few temples have good income. Ramachander

 

[goundamani]

Dear Ramachandar,

My only contention is why should there be seperate temples for dalits to worship the same god which all of us worship?Why arent dalit priests allowed to do pooja in big temples?In what way are they inferior?

I dont know how many people still feel only bhramins have to be priests.Tamilnadu assembly which is representative of people has passed this resolution unanimously.Supreme court,the highest legal authority in our country has given this judgment.

 

[sarathy]

to Ramchandar

thank you,
i am concerned with upliftment of hindus who are taking religion and its practices as profession by tradition or as job.
all of us know they are poor and unrecognised.
should they continue to be poor by holdinding the tradition?
they need education even in religious practices.
priesrhood does not end up with showing camphor plate 3 times infront of deity and showing the same infront of devotees for coins.
future generation will not allow these things.!
then what will be the fate of priests?
even now nobody wants to become a priest.
no mother wants to send her son also.
but they will send for catering tech,cosmotology...!
let people start learning hindu practices and defend against DK,aethists and antipropogandists.
we want a hindu fold.
GPS

 

[Ramachander]

Temple Priests

Dear Sri.Sarathy,
I totally agree with you. Some orgainisations like Thirupathi devastanam and some Shaiva Mutts are doing great service by maintaining smaller temples and paying decent salary to the priest. But most of the temple priests , do it because of their devotion.I have a feeling that we should:-
1.Organise a trust which would pay monthly salary to as many Temple priests as possible.(all HIndus should be involved)
2.Canvass to promote people to daily visit their neighbouring temple and donate even a trifle amount every day.
3.Modify the Poojas in temples in such a way that a temple priest also can take up a job(part time) in Hindu charitable organisations.
4.MOdify the temple system in such a way that the Temple Purohit is also taught "Purohitham" , so that temples can act as the source to provide assistance in Vedic rites(This is being very succeesfully done in all temples in USA)
This topic is of general interest to all religious HIndus.Ramachander

 

[sarathy]

to, Ramachandar

thank you,
why not we think of having an educational program ?
in hindu religious practices..
its very simple.
1.form a syllabus committee.
2.frame syllabus at different levels.
3.float advt like IIT,IAS,CA,BANKING ,RAILWAYS.....and so on.
learning can be in the same way as for these exams.no school,no text book,no teacher,no grumbling,no cutting classes.
all self learning by approaching gurus.!
4.conduct exams,grade,give placement all over the world!
like BILLGATES EXAMS!!!
5.since its a job oriented course students themselves can find self employment.
6.it can be a 10 year project.
community will invite this proposal.
we dont have to get permission from anybody!
GPS

 

[silverfox]

Dear Sarathy:

I am absolutely certain that your suggestions are excellent and are needed. However, -- please don't mistake me -- it is easy for anyone of us to come up with suggestions, ideas, and what have you; the execution part is the toughest part.
We have just started and we are still crawling; cannot get up and walk yet! Besides, everything costs money.
For instance, we aleady have over 400 members. But almost all of them are silent; they are not participating, IMHO.
For helping out this needy student, Srividhya, I have posted so many requests for members to come up to send some contribution but nothing is coming forward, except a few of us.
Can you also come up with how we could execute your ideas?
I had suggested that all members could contribute, say, Rs.2,000 per head as seed money.
It is very difficult to come together especially when we are on the cyberspace!!

 

[prpsarathy]

silver fox.

once again i feel the collectionof funds are much faster in cyber rather than in person. I have done some collection work for veda padasala of Kachi Shankaracharya.

I feel cyber guys are good and generous

 

[silverfox]

Dear prp sarathy
Yes, you are right; one would think collecting funds via cyber space would be a cinch. Yet, I am finding it is not so. I am sure the cyber guys are good and generous; but what is preventing them to send money right now?
In the US, so far, Ramki, JS Iyengar and myself were the only ones contributing to that needy poor student so far.

 

[sarathy]

to silver fox.
you have given encouraging reply.
i have a project prepared already on hindu religious practitioners course.
i have given the details in my earlier mails.
how to interact with you and like minded people .
we can come a bit closer.
as you have pointed out ..mine is not a suggestion!.
it can be executed!
i live in chennai,india.if you also live closer we can do better community service
GPS

 

[lsmani33]

Sarathy

Hi Sarathy,
I am a new member, soon to be transfered back to Chennai from US. I am happy to see like minded people who is trying to arrive at a solution. I would like to contribute to this. I will be in Chennai in October and we can plan a meeting to discuss this.

Keep up the good work guys.

Regards
Subramaniam

 

[kabali]

Dear Ramachandar,

Is a muslim free to follow his faith of jihad?Or is a hindu woman free to follow her faith in sathi,child marriages,and preventing widow remarriages?

Any faith can be followed as long as it is not affecting others,or discriminating others unfairly.If anybody changes his poonol according to shastras inside his house or marries a woman of his caste they all cannot be prevented by anybody.

But we cannot impose our faith on others.How can I tell to somebody who belongs to other caste that "you are not allowed to do poojas,because it is my faith?".Our faith should be in our heart.It should not come out in public affecting or discriminatring others.

If somebody prevents dalits from entering temples citing same agamas and shastras is it fair?If somebody follows untouchability citing agamas and shastras is it fair?

Blind faith will destroy our society.Blind faith can be followed in private,but it cannot be imposed on another person.


In a democracy nobody has any rights to say "you should not do a lawful profession,because it is my faith".

Very very well said Goundamani. All people should be able to choose their profession. If Shashtras prohibit other castes from becoming priest do we need such sashtras?

In christianity,Islam any one who is educated in theology can become priest or imam so should be Hinduism. If Hinduism is not even this flexible then i think we cannot stop conversion of hindus to other religion.

Upliftment of our community is a must but there should be no monopoly by our community on anything. Hinduism is just not a religion for Brahmins alone.

 

[sarathy]

to ismani,from sarathy

Hi Sarathy,
I am a new member, soon to be transfered back to Chennai from US. I am happy to see like minded people who is trying to arrive at a solution. I would like to contribute to this. I will be in Chennai in October and we can plan a meeting to discuss this.

Keep up the good work guys.

Regards
Subramaniam

hi,thanks for encouraging mail.
i am game for the project.
we can discuss plans,ideas etc thro mail and interact in person soon you come back.
pl be in touch.
i have given a detailed plan in my earlier mail for community development and self employment.
i wish to get your feed back.
GPS

 

[KAUNDINYA]

Only One Caste Of Brahmins Are Temple Archakas

பிராமணர்களில் தமிழர்களுக்கு எந்த விதக் கோபமுமில்லை, ஆனால் பிராமணர்கள் தான் தமிழர்களை வெறுக்கிறார்கள்.இத்தனை நூற்றாண்டுகளாக தமிழ்மண்ணில் வாழ்ந்தும், தமிழர்களின் முதுகில் குத்துகிறார்கள் பிராமணர்கள். தமிழர்களின் கோயில்களில் வேலைக்கு வந்த பிராமணர்கள் கோயில்களைக் கைப்பற்றித் தமிழை வெளியேற்றி விட்டார்கள், தமிழைப் பேசிக் கொண்டே தமிழைத் தூற்றுகிறார்கள். பிராமணர்கள், ஏன் தங்களைத் தமிழர்களாகக் கருதுவதில்லை. உங்களுக்குள் பேசிப் பயனில்லை, தமிழர்களிடம் பேசுங்கள், சாதி வெறியை, விட்டுத் தமிழராகும் வழியைப் பாருங்கள்.

Your satement is totally incorrect. Among Brahmins, there is a big group which owes allegiance to Adi Sankara. They are known as Smarta Brahmins. This group includes castes such as VADAMAS, VATHIMAS, BRIHACHCHARANAM, ASHTASAHASRAM and so on. These castes have nothing to do with the temples. There is another small group called AADHI SAIVAR, also called GURUKKAL or SIVACHARIARS. They may not even be 1% of the Tamil Brahmins. It is these GURUKKALS or SIVACHARYAS who do pooja in all
Siva, Vinayaka, Muruga & Devi temples. ARUMUGA NAVALAR, a VELLALA from Jaffna, Sri Lanka, came to India and said that the GURUKKALS WERE NOT
BRAHMINS AND THAT THEY WERE NON-BRAHMINS ORIGINALLY & THAT THEY
BECAME BRAHMINS SUBSEQUENTLY. So if at all you can blame anybody, it is only the GURUKKALS.

We Brahmins consider ourselves Tamilians but it is anti-Brahmin folks like yourself & the DK & DMK people who say that Brahmins are not Tamilians. You people consider even Telugu,Kannada & Urdu speaking people as Tamilians.
As for "jaathi veri", it is non-Brahmins such as Vellalas, Thevars & Vanniyas who are very caste-conscious.
As for Vaishnavite temples, I can't say anything because I am not a Vaishnavite. But even there a separate caste called BHATTACHARYAS are the archakas.May I know why you say nothing about a religious community which has been killing lakhs of people throughout the world by indulging in terrorism?
:juggle: lane:

 

[ajatasatru]

how come gurukkals don't come under fold of brahmins? they have the rishi gotras.
may be you are confused with shiva adhinams who are vellars by caste.
I think that they don't come under smartha category but they are counter parts of vaishnav brahmins who give importance to vishnu while gurukkals to shiva and smarthas in between.
I noted that vaishnav brahmins don't follow the follow the veda that eulogize shiva while smartha recognize veda only and these people value both agamas and veda.
one of reason the brahmin power is shrinking is the disunity among the community..lets give up this sterotype and revive lost glory.

 

[KAUNDINYA]

how come gurukkals don't come under fold of brahmins? they have the rishi gotras.
may be you are confused with shiva adhinams who are vellars by caste.
I think that they don't come under smartha category but they are counter parts of vaishnav brahmins who give importance to vishnu while gurukkals to shiva and smarthas in between.
I noted that vaishnav brahmins don't follow the follow the veda that eulogize shiva while smartha recognize veda only and these people value both agamas and veda.
one of reason the brahmin power is shrinking is the disunity among the community..lets give up this sterotype and revive lost glory.

It is because I did not want to create disunity among Brahmins, I was keeping quiet all these days & did not say anything about this. It was this person "THIVYA" who made me say all this. How can other Brahmins be held responsible for what the GURUKKALS do? The common man does not know the difference between a Gurukkal and a Smartha Brahmin & he refers to both of them as "IYERS".
hoto: eace:

 

[Ramachander]

Temple Priests

I am really sorry that this thread is going in this direction. Historical research shows that the brahmins who started working in temples as priests learned Agamas.Most of them were not expert in Vedas. So the Vedic Pundits looked down on these experts in Agamas. No where it has been told that Gurukkal is not a brahmin but they were considered as slightly inferior in the heirarchy.Ramachander

 

[KAUNDINYA]

Please read he following:
"Conversion of Adhi Saivas"

"The priests of the KOILs, known as Adhi Saivas, are a separate class by themselves. Though they are called as brahmins by others, they do not regard themselves as such. The nomenclature of the cook and assistant in Siva temples as Brahmana Pillai, meaning a brahmin youth, shows that the Adhi Saivas were not brahmins. In those days of strict compartmentalisation of society and taboos on eating food touched by others, the new settlers could have refused to take the food prepared by the Adhi Saivas and appointed one of their own group in each temple for this purpose.

The Adhi Saivas were initiated into brahminism with the wearing of the sacred thread like the brahmins. They were also taught a few portions of the Vedas, like Rudram and Chamakam, for reciting during the worship of Siva. Even today, the Adhi Saivas learn only these hymns and not the entire Vedas."
The above-mentioned porion has been taken from the following website:

http://encyclopedia.quickseek.com/i...n_of_Saivism#Reforms_brought_about_by_Vadamas