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temple priests

arunsuraj said:
As long as the person is able to recite the slokas in sanskrit/tamil I have no qualms of having non-brahmin priests at temples.

I would hate the world if some one says I cannot enter a profession because of my caste so that holds good for priesthood as well.

Gurukkals, Poojaris, sastrigals, Josiers are the last sub castes and genarally econamically backward group of Brahmins who need to come out of dravidian assualt.

Now it is an opputunity for them to demand that they be made govt employees by welcoming the move of the govt with a rider that other caste people who want to become priest shall undergo proper training in Agama Schools.

When the posts of Karnam and pattamaniars were abolished many Brahmins got into Govt Service and later became Dy Colletors etc and in fact they become forward because this.

You cannot simply imagine everu gurukkal today are making money like Thirupathy Archakas and actually this sect are very poor

Let us all welcome the move to take maximum political milage and insist that all exixting archkas should be made govt employees and all benefits given to them. Atleast the next generation will be prosperous.
 
halo
not a nice job by mr cm!
y did u elect ur cm this way when u coud hve done it better!
i apologise first
ok non brahmins as priests is very harsh to take.as we c priests next to god.and it is impossible to accpet priests outside or caste.we surely pught to fight for this but can this be done?and how do we fight back.we believe purity in giving it to god.abd we are born as brahmins to take up the work of god.it is very unacceptable to go to temples that dont have brahmin as priests and we can build temples more privately and having only our castes people as priests.let we nto go to temples at all if they continu doing this practie of bringing non brahmins in the name of worship as priests.but before that let us all get back to our common seats and let us learn our scriptures and revise all our vedas!
 
srkpriv said:
pattuk>> "Brahminisim ( what pomies says) is challegened not today, had been there for 1000's of years. Still you can't destroy it because this is the truth. A truth cannot be destroyed"

This makes no sense whatsoever. Did you even understand what you wrote when you wrote it?.

The explanation is this The word Brahminisim was created by British (called Pomy)
Even before that when you look at the westernised buddist texts would say that buddha challenged the authority of brahmisim.
Even if you take the two ways like
a) it is totally true, buddha was not successfull in his mission. Because many of the "Sangas" were populated with brahmins and they continued with what they wanted to do.
b) if it is not true then the brahmin, still the way the buddhism entered the the religious platform was through an atheist way.

Anyway their temproray sucess were not long because they entered politics .

Thus the brahminhood is a way of life, in this you try to be a role model and impress on your fellow being to become the same. It is the way every one should aim to. Even if the there is non brahmin archakar in temple he will become a brahmin at least. There is no guarantee that he will not repeat the same situation.
Another classical example would be few sri vaishanvas, they were not brahmins, but they were inducted into brahminhood by Sri Ramanuja. They call thems selves as brahmins. Still their root is a non brahmins root. It will be difficult to differenciate between themselves unless they say so. Obvivously they wouldn't proclaim in public.

Therefore the brahminism cannot be destroyed as everyone comes to the basic function of a brahmins (ie a prohitha - in temple an archakar) would show the same properties of the presently adjudged as brahmins qualities.

Hope I have explained my stance.
 
பிராமணர்களில் தமிழர்களுக்கு எந்த விதக் கோபமுமில்லை, ஆனால் பிராமணர்கள் தான் தமிழர்களை வெறுக்கிறார்கள்.இத்தனை நூற்றாண்டுகளாக தமிழ்மண்ணில் வாழ்ந்தும், தமிழர்களின் முதுகில் குத்துகிறார்கள் பிராமணர்கள். தமிழர்களின் கோயில்களில் வேலைக்கு வந்த பிராமணர்கள் கோயில்களைக் கைப்பற்றித் தமிழை வெளியேற்றி விட்டார்கள், தமிழைப் பேசிக் கொண்டே தமிழைத் தூற்றுகிறார்கள். பிராமணர்கள், ஏன் தங்களைத் தமிழர்களாகக் கருதுவதில்லை. உங்களுக்குள் பேசிப் பயனில்லை, தமிழர்களிடம் பேசுங்கள், சாதி வெறியை, விட்டுத் தமிழராகும் வழியைப் பாருங்கள்.
 
Yes i agree to Nagu, Karunanidhi is doing is this for his vote bank, why are they trying to change the structure of the religion, ask him to ristrict a Mohammadan to marry 4 times , let him bring this change and then he can talk about non brahmins being priests in the temples
 
hai all,
regarding having temple priests as non brahmin is absolutely unacceptable.we surely cant accept a meat eater to perform for our God! but then there are few more delicate isues like robbery by temple priests i mean some brahmins who are doin this then what is the answer do we give when u say we cant accpet meat eaters.i feel for every post there is a certain qualifications which we need to follow without any second thought.Politicians have taken religion also to get their things done which is just an enjoyment for the time i mean till the minister is there.But we need to take it to our hands when the situation goes out of hand.we do have pooja room at homes as temples till then we should make our homes as temples and continue with our praying.As time go by people will understand where things went wrong and in what way.for sure politicians will not keep their hands on all our mutts and till then we should be satisfied.
thank you
 
British might have anglicised the word brahmin to brahminism or applied a 'ism' to give the meaning of this as a seperate movement or something like that. But the real problem is brahmins failed to explain the true meaning of brahminism to british, they should have said, there is no such thing as brahminism or even if there is, it is open to all, and everyone is equal in terms of brahminism, because, brahman, which is the essence of brahminism, means 'one who is in pursuit of knowledge and righteousness', and one who is in that pursuit is a brahman, but then, brahmin given a new identity and a status, that is above all non-brahmins and charecterized as a superior being comparable to the aryans like british, failed to see the real truth (which basically demotes them as brahmins, because they inspite of their goal in seeking knowledge) and succumbed to the divisive tactics of british. But regardless, brahmins already monopolized hinduism for their own means, for quite a long time, and the british, characterization was just additional fuel.

Coming to your truth aspect as in it cannot be destroyed;
The brahminism cannot be destroyed because it imitates a function, like purohit, similarly engineering is a function, or being doctor as called by british (or maruthuvar in tamil) is also TRUTH! as per your logic.

Brahmin is a tag not a truth!, Devar is a tag not a truth!, Buniya is a tag not a truth!. These originated through something called jati, which originally stemmed through the function/task/role (however you want to call it) that everyone did initially and as time passed everything got associated with birth as though you carry something with you physically!.

pattuk said:
The explanation is this The word Brahminisim was created by British (called Pomy)
Even before that when you look at the westernised buddist texts would say that buddha challenged the authority of brahmisim.
Even if you take the two ways like
a) it is totally true, buddha was not successfull in his mission. Because many of the "Sangas" were populated with brahmins and they continued with what they wanted to do.
b) if it is not true then the brahmin, still the way the buddhism entered the the religious platform was through an atheist way.

Anyway their temproray sucess were not long because they entered politics .

Thus the brahminhood is a way of life, in this you try to be a role model and impress on your fellow being to become the same. It is the way every one should aim to. Even if the there is non brahmin archakar in temple he will become a brahmin at least. There is no guarantee that he will not repeat the same situation.
Another classical example would be few sri vaishanvas, they were not brahmins, but they were inducted into brahminhood by Sri Ramanuja. They call thems selves as brahmins. Still their root is a non brahmins root. It will be difficult to differenciate between themselves unless they say so. Obvivously they wouldn't proclaim in public.

Therefore the brahminism cannot be destroyed as everyone comes to the basic function of a brahmins (ie a prohitha - in temple an archakar) would show the same properties of the presently adjudged as brahmins qualities.

Hope I have explained my stance.
 
hi all,as a hindi brahmin,i support the fact that now non-brahmin will be appointed as priests in temples.anybody with vision will not oppose this.after all all non brahmin all children of god.so how can god refused to be served by them.in north india many o.b.c are working as priest.ramkrishna paramhansa,spearheading the ayodhya movement is a shudra by caste.fire brand uma bharti is a o.b.c.in many temples of benaras o.b.c and dalit are serving as priest.mata amrit anandmayi is from fisherman community.great visionary vivekananda was a bengali shudra.can anybody deny these people contributions to dharma.WE SHOULD FIGHT FOR OUR RIGHTS BUT WE SHOULD ALWAYS SUPPORT REFORMS.
 
hai all!
ok when gajendran says he sees brahmins far more forward in their thinking then what does he mean by that if he could be elaborate then we can change our tunes too!emotions are true to tamilians but it cannot be controlled unless our object is achieved!
 
To continue to think that one is superior to others just because they were born into a caste shows that the your community ( may be a few in...) hasn't come to grips with the reality and are living very much in the way past times.

unfortunately, the way "others" act and talk are very much based on these superior/inferior values.

i do not mean any specific sect or individual,
it happens with everyone including us.

whether we do it consciously or not that is something which we find hard to change. ;)

As mythreyi said, Emotions are true to tamilians in all walks of life and that is something which is hard to change as well.

Btw,

Welcome to the forums grajendran :)
 
Mythreyi, I guess rajendran didn't try to single out brahmins to say that they are out of their shell, what he means is I guess is people are opening their mind to lots of possibilities, whether brahmin or not!.

The issue being temple priests I guess surely we can accept a non-brahmin as priest in our temples, as long as he learns the sambradayam associated with pooja, I guess eating meat or no-meat dont matter, I guess our culture emphasize, taking a full good bath, before indulging in pooja regardless, of what you have done before. I am sure guys can come out of lots of sanskrit quotes and slokas against what I said (consumption of meat before pooja inspite of bath etc...), but I guess for all practical and logical purposes, if a person can take a good bath, and do the pooja when he is doing with full faith and committments, I think that is good enough, and I think that also gels with spirit of hinduism and hindu way of prayer.! Afterall, hinduism is the only religion that doesn't restrict you to a single path for salvation, I think everyone knows that as opposed to other religions where it is more rigid!.

grajendran said>>I've been living in US for a while now and many of friends are Iyers. They are way forward in their thinking and i'm surprised to see this hatred from folks in india. I appreciate the efforts of the few like "srkpriv".
 
very true indeed praveen (and mythreyi), that emotions are hard to overcome, that is the reason, brahmins used pursuit of knowledge and spirit (not the alcohol type :) to further themselves, but at the same time, they abused their position as well, after all, they are humans too!. I think whether the issue is temple preist are not, the more important problem is the diminishing opportunities due to reservation and that needs to be changed in whatever way we can, may be, not 0% overnight, but a few percentage of reduction every 5 years or so, will do the needful as well!. Instead of reservation the government should concentrate on economic progress and development, which regardless of the population will touch everybody due to opportunities abound and entities will always seek people (regardless of caste) to fill the vacancies and also new opportunities emerge constantly in a flourishing economy.

"praveen said>>As mythreyi said, Emotions are true to tamilians in all walks of life and that is something which is hard to change as well."
 
hi all,why not these mr.gajendran is doing something to lessen the suffering of brahmins.instead he is sprinkling salt on our cuts.all the reformers in india were brahmin.they spoke for the welfare of whole humanity.but anyone has ever seen a o.b.c politician to voice concern for peoplre other then his caste.shame on such people.
 
Truth according to me is the helplessness among our society is the first thing which paved the way for all. One who is rich should help the poor in the society, ofcourse gurukals in our temples other than big temples like kamakshi temple earn very less which will not be enough to make their daily happenings. they are the downtrodden in our brahmin society. But can anyone tell anybody has done enough for them. There lies my point, no help from top people.
Iam really proud that inspite of 69% reservation and lot of distubances from the politicians, our society is striving their best part. Hats off to all. I really like this kind of attitude. It will be better if the helping part is fulfilled. this has to be taken care by ourselves, not even kanchi madam is doing anything fruitful. they are also supporting the rich people instead of poor.

In such a situation how can we all expect our fellow brahmins to protest. First do (y)our duty and ask others to . this is my moral, funda .... anything.

if i had hurt any of yours feelings, pls forgive me.
 
not a proper reply

srkpriv said:
For churches and mask their is no restriction except that you have to ordain yourself as a priest! Anyone (a christian in that denomination) can become a priest if you go through their training and their hierarchy etc. To become a priest in a temple, you have to be a hindu as well!. Previously it was brahmins now it can be anybody with proper training!. In a way I support that!. The whole problem for brahmins is we dont look at us among everybody, if you try to corner things that are social in nature, backlash is only a matter of time, and that's what is happening to brahmins. I as a brahmin think we should reform ourselves first, and join together as one under one umbrella and face our problems, diplomatically, politically and socially.

I definitely disagree with you. Every religion has a procedure and they follow it strictly.Similarly in Hinduism there is a procedure like only this generation can server this temple.Even I as a pucca brahmin cannot go to any temple and become a priest.When things are like this it is not at all proper to compare with useless islam or christianity and blame ourselves in a forum like this.

These stupid non brahmins will become priests only to loot money and misbehave before God.

No wonder a time may come when anybody who brahmin chants Narayana will be killed by MK's party men.And that time also there will be people like you to support the cause.

You know how the Agama system is very very unique in atleast one sampradaya in every temple.A Srirangam chief priest dont have any rights inside an another small perumal temple somewhere.

Why you know? He is also a Vaishnava that too priest in a temple that is the best of 108.Then also why he cannot enter? It is because of our strongest agama tradition and austerity.

That and all are greek and latin to these DEMONS AND DOGS OF TN but atleast our people should not join them like this.
 
You do something, doesn't make it right!, You do something, doesn't make it relevant, You do something, doesnt make it useful, You disagree strongly or weakly doesn't mean it is wrong!. All it implies is, you continue to do it without questioning it that's it!

You can be all praise of agamas, or rights of one priest over one temple and otherwise, but that is just your view.

It is not that other people dont disagree or get mad about something, but when they express, they do so in a politically correct and civil way!.

ksksat27 said:
I definitely disagree with you. Every religion has a procedure and they follow it strictly.Similarly in Hinduism there is a procedure like only this generation can server this temple.Even I as a pucca brahmin cannot go to any temple and become a priest.When things are like this it is not at all proper to compare with useless islam or christianity and blame ourselves in a forum like this.

These stupid non brahmins will become priests only to loot money and misbehave before God.

No wonder a time may come when anybody who brahmin chants Narayana will be killed by MK's party men.And that time also there will be people like you to support the cause.

You know how the Agama system is very very unique in atleast one sampradaya in every temple.A Srirangam chief priest dont have any rights inside an another small perumal temple somewhere.

Why you know? He is also a Vaishnava that too priest in a temple that is the best of 108.Then also why he cannot enter? It is because of our strongest agama tradition and austerity.

That and all are greek and latin to these DEMONS AND DOGS OF TN but atleast our people should not join them like this.
 
religion is only principles and no logic as if a social organization

srkpriv said:
You do something, doesn't make it right!, You do something, doesn't make it relevant, You do something, doesnt make it useful, You disagree strongly or weakly doesn't mean it is wrong!. All it implies is, you continue to do it without questioning it that's it!

You can be all praise of agamas, or rights of one priest over one temple and otherwise, but that is just your view.

It is not that other people dont disagree or get mad about something, but when they express, they do so in a politically correct and civil way!.

What you are telling is not at all correct!!!!!!!
Let me put forth like this, even a hindu can enter a christian church and becme a priest there....why not? again by what science or maths logic you are saying like only christians can become Father or Mother or Sister....why not a musalman or an hindu? Seems rubbish right?

Ya its the same way with Agamas........they are principles but not like foolish IPC......they are eternal and supermost.......

You people take great pride in takine Kuran word for word to create separate law for them naa? like they can marry n times and live like an animal...........

Then why you say "...just your view" when it comes to Agamas.....

I will also say "u can marry n times if you are a musalman......" is not kuran's view but muslaman's view........so i remove separate muslim laws......would they allow these? Never in the history.........because they want to enjoy unlimitedly.......

And with Agamas there were never enjoyments.......

Ok leave all that.........could these NB guies know how to wear a panjakacham.......from whom they are going to get training? from Brahmin priests? Take it from me until the final brahmin soul remains it wont happen.........

You know how strict the vedic life in Padashalas? Are these idiots going to spend 4 years and study all that without their favourite chicken and fish?

Never never.............there aim is to destroy the holiness and sit over traditions and austerity.........and for mere sense gratification you are using your matter composed brain and argue in futility........these are soul provoking subjects..........
 
Because I dont share the same opinion with agamas or brahmanas or aranyaas etc. I dont know how many people in the forum share the same view as yours.

ksksat27 said>>Ya its the same way with Agamas........they are principles but not like foolish IPC......they are eternal and supermost.......

You people take great pride in takine Kuran word for word to create separate law for them naa? like they can marry n times and live like an animal...........

Then why you say "...just your view" when it comes to Agamas.....
 
It is so funny when you say these and how conservative/traditional/primitive in your view you are!. Basically you are in a well and think the whole world is that!. Do you even think a panchakacham is that important? You may say one text or other how important is that, I am including that text, is that relevant in this day and age!. What is wrong in praying to god in jeans or ordinary shirt or pant!. God will get angry and say, (say with loud voice the next sentence in quotes) "How dare you wear a jean, jean is a western man creation, I am an Iyengar (or Iyer) God. In my unversite I expect you to wear panchakacham, otherwise you will be punished." :)

Our agamas, aranyakas, brahma sutra, brahmanas, vedic texts need revision according to our current situation, where impractical and illogical things needs to be removed and the rights things intact, so that a person like you, will not take wearing a panchakacham a serious affair.

Ok leave all that.........could these NB guies know how to wear a panjakacham.......from whom they are going to get training? from Brahmin priests? Take it from me until the final brahmin soul remains it wont happen.........
 
Do you think we have a say in this? A Government order was sent already and the doors are opened now. It is past saving. The question is if and only if we brahmins were smart enough really (as opposed to feeling smart) we would have embraced other castes, taught them vedas with all the proper ritual specifications and included them in the main stream thereby ensuring equality and also showed that we can be among others together as one as opposed to a government order ensuring that!.

The brahmins have lost this opportunity also to mend fences with other castes. All they want is acceptance into mainstream hinduiism as equals, it is not even that bad, in that way we can face our common enemy that is islam and christianity who eat our people in the name of God. it is only a matter of time (as a last man standing) you will watch these happening to your religion in your own eyes!.

You know how strict the vedic life in Padashalas? Are these idiots going to spend 4 years and study all that without their favourite chicken and fish?

Never never.............there aim is to destroy the holiness and sit over traditions and austerity.........and for mere sense gratification you are using your matter composed brain and argue in futility........these are soul provoking subjects..........
 
very true! if you really extend this argument, pretty much, we cannot follow or bind ourselves with any hindu texts other than some pretty basic ones (which are really really good ones, capturing the essence of humanity, sprituality, faith, reverence, and humaneness) which were written in various texts here and there. With the situation changed so much, I am not even sure, whether the Yujur Veda Samhita, Sama Veda Samhita and so many other rituals that we practice carry any sense what so ever, I dont intend any offence to any one, but I think it is high time, hindus join together and refine their scripts apppriately to reflect the current context and time than sink ourselves to the past.

grajendran said:
I'm not sure that Agamas are accepted to be the one binding book by all hindus as were Bible/Koran. Therefore the applicability of Agamas and its latitude is very subjective.

Regards
 
I agree with SRKPRIV. Brahmins don't have monpoly or patent for vedas and rituals and who ever does that with sincerity should be welcome. We have a history where ramanujam has cconverted many dalits into brahmins. Unless they know the beauty of the Hindu religions(which is more brahmic and vedic in many sense), we can'nt ask them to shown them as hindu and this it the weaknedss that is being exployted by ISLAM/CHRISTIANITY for conversion. Once more people start learning this we can find more people spreading the message of vedas/hinduism other than brahmins, which is a healthy sign for Hinduism. But, the flip side here is we dont know the cunning motive of karunanidthi announcing this though he has mentioned that whoever qualifies only will be considered for this.
 
We very well know the motive of karunanithi, the only motive is VOTES!. That's it.

mukesh said:
I agree with SRKPRIV. Brahmins don't have monpoly or patent for vedas and rituals and who ever does that with sincerity should be welcome. We have a history where ramanujam has cconverted many dalits into brahmins. Unless they know the beauty of the Hindu religions(which is more brahmic and vedic in many sense), we can'nt ask them to shown them as hindu and this it the weaknedss that is being exployted by ISLAM/CHRISTIANITY for conversion. Once more people start learning this we can find more people spreading the message of vedas/hinduism other than brahmins, which is a healthy sign for Hinduism. But, the flip side here is we dont know the cunning motive of karunanidthi announcing this though he has mentioned that whoever qualifies only will be considered for this.
 
Our government is peculiar in its treatment of religion. In the West the Church is made separate from the State. This means that the government will not interefere in the affairs of religion. But in our country there is only the pretence of secularism. If the country is truly secular there is no sense in the government controlling religious activities. I wish there is a public interest litigation filed on this in the Supreme court.
 
dear mukesh,
i totally agree with you.hinduim is not the ancestoral property of brahmins.in many cases non-brahmins has contributed much more to dharma then brahmins.recent case is swami ramdev,a sc by caste.he has infused new vigour to dharma through yoga and scientific representatin of dharma.who can deny cotribution of swami vivekananda.and why people like mukesh forget that most beloved of all shri krishna was a shudra.whose charnamrit brahmins drink with bliss.and what about shri rama.
as far as the temple priest issue is cocerned.we should welcome karunanidhi step,irrespective of what he is thinking in his mind.
 

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