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statistics one poor brahmins

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I concur too if they haven't made much strides now they aren't going to make any... I guess we need new leadership, new strategy to fight across all spheres.. or may be have a one on one open discussion with ******* leadership to find out what they are really up to and what they are really trying to do in short-term and long term welfare of brahmisn.... We just have to find out what is cooking ...


Chintana said:
All of Mukesh's suggestions are great. The only point where I differ is that I think we should leave ******* alone. If they haven't been effective so far chances are that they are not going to be of much use.

I am nervous about entrenched bureaucratic approaches that merely serve the goals of a select few. I am not at all happy about the lack of percolating effect that ******* has had. Lets leave them alone.

And yes, this is just a question of hope and conviction and perhaps a good dose of patience. We must be prepared to press on even if we face setbacks.
 
Sorry I missed seeing this earlier.

What is wrong with violence as an option? Because history has proved time and again that violence tends to become a culture of its own and those indulging in violence quickly lose track of their original purpose. The LTTE is an excellent case in point. Would you believe that the LTTE started off as a student movement in the late 1960s and early 1970s? They didn't have violence in their agenda then but eventually decided that that was the only way to go. To say that today they are fugitives in their own homeland is an understatement. They have gotten to a point where no one knows what is enough and where it all ends. Their reasons for their struggles began for sound, legitimate reasons which is why India offered its support. But India eventually didn't know the kind of colour that LTTE picked up and so wound up looking like a fool in the end.

When you stay out of violence you stay legitimate. When you stay legitimate you always have the power to invoke the help of anybody in the world. The minute you (I don't mean you) start killing you start infusing terror in the minds of people. And that has a negative karmic effect on the person perpetrating the killing.

When you kill you are essentially passing a judgement on those being killed. And this is ok if you are a person or a body or an organization that has the authority to legitimize killing - such as the government, justice department and so on. Even here it must be done according to law otherwise it will quickly become what Hitler did to the Jews. To quote Gandhi here, I believe that we are all sinners in some way that we should leave that kind of punishment to God. The question is do you fight to kill or do you fight to change the minds of people? I believe that changing the minds of people is infinitely more productive. Does this mean that we can get everybody to feel positively about Brahmins? Certainly not. But we can, in a democratic society influence law, media and policy that brings such rules into vogue. And this is not as mild as it sounds. It is much, much more powerful than killing. If we have sound ties with the West it is only because of the non-violent way by which we got our independence. We EARNED our respect. We havent done much to retain it but the West still holds India in esteem not just because of its recent economic prowess but because of what Gandhi did.

This might seem like a dream but it is just a matter of believing in oneself. If you visualize the times of independence struggle - those folks didn't have half the kind and number of tools we have at our disposal today. Illiteracy was at its peak. So was poverty.

I think we can do much better. And today we have more number of international agencies waiting to help people who are being persecuted in any way. It is just a matter of strategy.

And I personally like the non-violent way because it cannot be done unless one changes oneself. Usually it requires people to undergo some sort of change for the good - whether it means picking up the right kind of education, right kind of attitude, patience, forebearance, courage of conviction, relentlessness, service-mindedness, etc. Some combination of these qualities or their variants need to be developed by the struggling group which eventually turns out to be beneficial in the long run not just for the movement but also the person.

With all the craziness in the world, this is still the one that God created. It still all Maya. And it dealing with Maya if I as a person don't take the chance to build and expand on the Divine love sowed in me I have wasted my lifetime instead of uplifting it. (When I used the phrase Divine Love I mean that quality which upholds what one's intuition suggests is right and just. It is not weak and effete and all of the silly flowery things it is made out to be. It is a very powerful quality.)

I am a child of God. And guess what? So is everybody else. When non-violent methods fail it is different; but they should be tried first, whole-heartedly, with belief, with prayers, without ego. To pray that, ' I will reason; I will will; I will act. But be the guiding light of my reason, will and actions', seems to be the best way to go.

Do write me in case of more clarifications.

srkpriv said:
What's wrong in fighting that way. I used to say that too, We need to object, but always end it with peacefully!. If we are talkign about protests and asserting our rights and nothing is working, that's the last resort isn't it?.

There is a thing with humans you know, we are all fundamentally the same people no matter what. But we are in a different group now or atleast perceive ourselves in different groups. Being that the case, why not take it all the way till the end. Why remove that option from the table?. Btw, dont we know the four basic things in art of negotiation the "Sama, Dhana, Beda, Dhand" methodology?.

Anyway I am still not espousing the last option, I think, we haven't even properly tried the first option.
 
chintana, to put in short your point, "The end doesn't justify the means". That's what it all comes too, I dont condone violence, I was merely suggesting why brahmins dont even suggest it as an option, since we have established to a decent extent that we are not the masters of sense control as we thought us to be? My point was merely to assess whether we are fearful of the violence or we are righteous to even think of such a thing?. I too agree and share the same ideals in terms of choosing non-violence over violence. Civilizations have ended (created is also true, but then at what cost!) due to violence.
 
sir
basically i came from a remote village in tirunelveli dist. really i face lot of difficulties in my school life.in the end of my school life, i dont know what i do next. because i dont have a proper guide. i am a first person in my family to entered college. i know what are the difficulties our peoples faced in small villages and middle class.so first we create awareness to our students in villages.
 
Shankar bhaiya mayoos na ho zindagi ki ladaiee mein hum aapke saath hain! Kabhi koi madad ki zarooratho to hamen yaad karna. Wiase hum ne bhi kayee obstacles ko surmount kar ke zindagi mein kaafi tazurba kamayaa hai.Rupaya nahin kama paye woh alhada baat hai...
 
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Lotus-quartz,
Your post reminds me of that lovely song:
"Maana hai ki jaeb se fakir hain ...
Phir bhi yaaron dil se hum amir hain ..."
Shankar bhaiya mayoos na ho zindagi ki ladaiee mein hum aapke saath hain! Kabhi koi madad ki zarooratho to hamen yaad karna. Wiase hum ne bhi kayee obstacles ko surmount kar ke zindagi mein kaafi tazurba kamayaa hai.Rupaya nahin kama paye woh alhada baat hai...
 
Madam hamen nahin pata thaa ke aap bhi shairi mein dakhal rakhti hain! Kasam se, ab to mazaa aa gayaa....



Lotus-quartz,
Your post reminds me of that lovely song:
"Maana hai ki jaeb se fakir hain ...
Phir bhi yaaron dil se hum amir hain ..."
 
Lotus_quartz and Born_again_aiyer_maami

What in the world are you two talking about?!!! -- in a language that many of us dont know!
 
A little bit of prose and poetry in Urdu. Lovely language! Tambrams are exceptionally sharp in picking up languages.


Lotus_quartz and Born_again_aiyer_maami

What in the world are you two talking about?!!! -- in a language that many of us dont know!
 
mukesh,
your suggestions are great.But one clarification.Today nadars and gounders are placing great emphasis on education.
 
which is it?

Hi lotus_quartz:

Which is it, dude? Are YOU giving him advice; or . are you translating that Urdu poem (posted by you below) for Sankaranarayan's sake? He was asking you to translate it in English!!

Dear friend,
There is still hope and no need to despair. I do not know how old you are but strongly feel that if you have age on your side and dedication and courage as your assets, you can still try to get educated as per your wish and desire. More than university degree, what matters more is acquisition of knowledge. If there is any help or guidance you need from any of us, please feel free to ask.

LQ
 
I, too, know languages!

A little bit of prose and poetry in Urdu. Lovely language! Tambrams are exceptionally sharp in picking up languages.

Lotus_quartz, I used to read, write and speak Japanese and Russian, excellent spoken Italian, some French plus Sanskrit and Hindi. But after having spent almost all my life in the US, I have lost touch with all these languages (except when I was in Russia, reading street signs in Russian did come in handy!). I even forgot my mother-tongue, Tamil, which i am reclaiming.
So.... picking up languages is great; however, the real trick is to hold them!!:music:
 
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The plot thickens ...

Gee Whiz, Dr. Watson - you are quite a polyglot!
Tried learning the Kanji script once - but learning a language by yourself gets to be a bore!
Btw Lotus_quartz - my knowledge of Urdu would fit behind a postage stamp! I had formal instruction in Hindi in grades I & II - and that's the extent of it. The rest is mostly via osmosis - friends, movies, a neighbour, a professor and such.
So I certainly don't have Lotus_quartz's vocabulary or facility with the tongue :hail: - just enough to understand the shairi about "angdai and deodorant"!! :)
But now I am intrigued as to where he grew up - I get the feeling he is not a Delhi-ite. His linguistic style is different - UP maybe ?
Could'nt be Lahore - sounds too young for that ...
Hmmm... Curiouser, and curiouser ...
Lotus_quartz, I used to read, write and speak Japanese and Russian, excellent spoken Italian, some French plus Sanskrit and Hindi. But after having spent almost all my life in the US, I have lost touch with all these languages (except when I was in Russia, reading street signs in Russian did come in handy!). I even forgot my mother-tongue, Tamil, which i am reclaiming.
So.... picking up languages is great; however, the real trick is to hold them!!:music:
 
Dear BAAM,SF,
I must have been shooting off my mouth. I am no great linguist, just ordinary mortal.
Your efforts to guess my background is interesting. Dr. Watson & Holmes have a lot of ground to cover.
Here is another clue. I can pronounce 'vazhapazham' the correct way, but can't read or write it. Recently, when I went for hair cut, the barber asked me if I am from Malaysia! Yet another time when I was in a chemist shop, the shop keeper wondered If I am from Sri Lanka!

Keep guessing.

LQ
 
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Dear born_again_aiyar_maami:
Thank you for the compliments of my dubious distinction!! I used to write Japanese letters to my penpals in Japan; I didn't know that much Kanji and so I used Japanese alphabets (both hiragana and katagana)! An interesting fact: Some years ago, a chinese friend of mine told me that when she went to Japan, she was able to get by, by reading signs etc., mostly because of kanji!! She didn't know Japanese but it seems the Kanji characters meant the same be it Japanese or Chinese.
 
vazhapazham!

Of course you would pronounce 'vazhapazham' correctly - you are a TamBrahm! So that does'nt give me a whole lot to go on !
Dear BAAM,SF,
I must have been shooting off my mouth. I am no great linguist, just ordinary mortal.
Your efforts to guess my background is interesting. Dr. Watson & Holmes have a lot of ground to cover.
Here is another clue. I can pronounce 'vazhapazham' the correct way, but can't read or write it. Recently, when I went for hair cut, the barber asked me if I am from Malaysia! Yet another time when I was in a chemist shop, the shop keeper wondered If I am from Sri Lanka!

Keep guessing.

LQ
 
lotus_quartz is originally from Thanjavur area, just like me!! Right, LQ?
I would suspect he grew up in the northeastern India; a wild guess!
 
Dear born_again_aiyar_maami:
Thank you for the compliments of my dubious distinction!! I used to write Japanese letters to my penpals in Japan;

You could've spent your time learning sanskrit. Funny how most Indians waste time learning urdu or whatever, but feel reluctant to learn sanskrit, which may well open the door to understanding our immortal scriptures. And we call ourselves Brahmins! What a joke!
 
Maruti:
As a boy growing up in India, I did learn Sanskrit (aren't all Tamilbrahmins do this?) but once I reached the US, I lost it. Yes, I agree with you we all should learn Sanskrit. But how many competent people are out there to teach us?
 
FYKI I have also learnt sanskrit (in devnagari script). It was part of our middle school syllabus.

Urdu simply by listening to ghazals, shairies and watching movies.

If you consider learning of any language (urdu or any other) wasteful of time, well... I can only offer my sympathies to you for holding such opinion.

LQ

You could've spent your time learning sanskrit. Funny how most Indians waste time learning urdu or whatever, but feel reluctant to learn sanskrit, which may well open the door to understanding our immortal scriptures. And we call ourselves Brahmins! What a joke!
 
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Maa'm, we live in an era of political correctness.

How could you presume that 'vazhapazham' is pronounced "correctly" by 2.5 % and "wrongly" by 97.5 %?

This brings us back to the issue of importance of neutral standpoint, which I proposed in a pervious posting and to which you violently reacted.

NB:- To set the record straight, I am not denying your conclusion.

Of course you would pronounce 'vazhapazham' correctly - you are a TamBrahm! So that does'nt give me a whole lot to go on !
 
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learn sanskrit thro web resources

Maruti:
As a boy growing up in India, I did learn Sanskrit (aren't all Tamilbrahmins do this?) but once I reached the US, I lost it. Yes, I agree with you we all should learn Sanskrit. But how many competent people are out there to teach us?

Even if we get a handful of scholars and digitize the content and put it on the web, sanskrit can be learnt by anyone. For that matter, upanishads, kalidasa's work etc can also be put on the web. I think they perhaps are already there. we may just have to look for it and learn it when we have time

For starters, you can refer to http://acharya.iitm.ac.in/sanskrit/tutor.php

I have started a new thread under knowledgebase forum containing sanskrit resources.
 
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