statistics one poor brahmins

[ksksat27]

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Nowadays there are four categories of our brahmin community.

i) Highly educated, richy family (India or abroad or travelling type) with some orthodoxy and pure veg principles and devotion.

ii)The same with (i) but without any principles almost like sudras in eating non veg or seeing low class tamil films or in enjoying dappanguthu dance.

iii) Really poor brahmins living in remote agraharam villages. I feel really distressed when I went to some Tanjore area temples( I think it is Kumbakonam or something). There one Mami was standing along with other beggars but somewhat keeping a distance.On seeing my face her eyes pleaded mercy and I gave some money.

iv)Middle class Tamil nadu brahmins living in chennai or srirangam struggling with their +2 children as what to do given that the state govt. crushes our community to max extent possible.These people are so pre-occupied with their problems but neverthless has faith in Late Paramacharya of Kanchi and do some sloga in home atleast.

So let us ignore the second category but analyse as what to do with our other three categories.

Neverthless i,iii,iv has one bad quality that is lack of unity or service mindedness.I mean even within our community there is no feeling of friendliness either.So many Directors or Chairmen are our same tamil brahmins but they have ignored class iii and to some extent class iv.

I dont blame anybody but it is right moment that we all help each other and identify the needy and help them.

Esp those of class (iii) cant be found easily nor they would come for help.

But we must try to identify them and encourage vedic studies for those disabled in Veda padashalas.The women of class iii can engage themselves in helping high class brahmins in flower,homely kumkum powder preparation etc.

But not a single brahmin must strave or beg from other low class men.Low class in the sense of arrogancy and animal enjoyment they do but not by birth I mean.

I will continue this message shortly.

 

[praveen]

Nowadays there are four categories of our brahmin community.

i) Highly educated, richy family (India or abroad or travelling type) with some orthodoxy and pure veg principles and devotion.

ii)The same with (i) but without any principles almost like sudras in eating non veg or seeing low class tamil films or in enjoying dappanguthu dance.

iii) Really poor brahmins living in remote agraharam villages. I feel really distressed when I went to some Tanjore area temples( I think it is Kumbakonam or something). There one Mami was standing along with other beggars but somewhat keeping a distance.On seeing my face her eyes pleaded mercy and I gave some money.

iv)Middle class Tamil nadu brahmins living in chennai or srirangam struggling with their +2 children as what to do given that the state govt. crushes our community to max extent possible.These people are so pre-occupied with their problems but neverthless has faith in Late Paramacharya of Kanchi and do some sloga in home atleast.

So let us ignore the second category but analyse as what to do with our other three categories.

Neverthless i,iii,iv has one bad quality that is lack of unity or service mindedness.I mean even within our community there is no feeling of friendliness either.So many Directors or Chairmen are our same tamil brahmins but they have ignored class iii and to some extent class iv.

I dont blame anybody but it is right moment that we all help each other and identify the needy and help them.

Esp those of class (iii) cant be found easily nor they would come for help.

But we must try to identify them and encourage vedic studies for those disabled in Veda padashalas.The women of class iii can engage themselves in helping high class brahmins in flower,homely kumkum powder preparation etc.

But not a single brahmin must strave or beg from other low class men.Low class in the sense of arrogancy and animal enjoyment they do but not by birth I mean.

I will continue this message shortly.

Even though i have some doubts over the categorization,

one thing which i def agree is the lack of unity.

take a look at other communities in other countries and even here, they do not quarrel or fight infront of others even if they serious differences.

one needs to take a look at the gujarati community for example,

whatever they do and whereever they are, one gujarati will not let another one down in terms of need.
whereas we tend to fend for one self only and do not worry or bother what the other brahmin is doing.
but if they come up in life or get something which this one has, then we are the first one to criticise them and not take time to applaud them.

 

[rsridhar]

ya, i truly agree the above said.

for unity with ourselves we should develop such kind of heart. Probably most people are speaking one's downfall but never tend to help him. Even our association is not doing anything to the downtrodden in our caste. Whoever has links to the top most will survive in *******. Sankarachariyar, who is behind the bars, is not at all a person to left. He could have developed our society if he thought about. only the Old Maha Periyava did lot to our society, building Sankara Nethralaya, and all. But the current periyava and bala periyava are not at all done anything to our brahmin society. They do when you are rich and could afford them something. I really felt it. Ofcourse they are not sasthrigal to do some poojas in home but they did, i have seen it.

Its shameful and thats the reason they don't have enough support in the hometown Kanchi. Once they say Our madam as pichakara madam, don't mistake me, thing is our madam didn't had that much money to afford anything. All went through by the donations. But the entire scenario has changed to a business entity by these two acharyas.

pls forgive me if i would have hurt your hearts.ray:

 

[suresh]

If we as a community can stop the blame game, have courage, stop looking for sympathy from others (atleast demanding reservations) the day is not too far we as brahmins can reach a global status like JEWS. Let us be brave to accept the reality and decide to help other brahmins in whatever small way possible.

 

[ashgene]

I acknowledge suresh's statement very much. It is indeed pity to see someof our brahmin boys and girls in a pathetic state in families where they cant afford even basic education, when once Brahminism was equal to saying Highly educated.
Ksksat's and sridhar are absoultely right when saying we should stay united and help each other, I believe we are in some position to help such people and we should take measures to ensure that help reaches the needy ones. The moderator can perhaps say how we could help them flourish and grow.

 

[cheenus]

i too agree with most of U.
Its hightime we come togather and help eatch of us rather than finding fault.
I personally have helped number of them here in this part of the world.
So where ever you R pl continue doing it in what ever way.

 

[srkpriv]

I dont agree with the kskat's analysis of categorizing brahmins at all in the first place!. He thinks it is totally wrong for brahmisn to be poor or beggers, I say it is wrong for anybody (whether your or brahmin or not). Well for unity and stuff we certainly dont have unity. The word for that is called 'COMPLACENCENCY'. That is you achieve success to a good extent and feel very happy and satisfied about it and stop trying after that. Basically you dont care anything about it. But I seriously empathize with the brahmin mami to stand among others begging really. But then think about how many charities brahmins have contributed really (compared to upliftment of poor by christians or islam). How much money brahmins have spent on fellow brahmins (not your relatives and just friends). Inspite of our grand pride, what else we did in our time to help poor peoples (if you think non-brahmins are not worthy of helping), if not alteast poor brahmins. What have we done. All I see in Ksksat27s message is just CONTEMPT, nothing. Let's come out of shell (or even well) and appreciate. FYI, there is no such thing as a low class tamil movies!.

 

[mythreyi]

hi all
gd al have the thought of improving our community.ut before we do we have to check ourselve where things went wrong and how we can change to modify and also practise the thoughts that have been led by our elders long ago.we have to blame oursleves for the position of brahmins rigth now as we have forgotten what we had to follow accordint to our scriptures.first we have to place back purselves where we were from originally and y we have come out of that.reasons could be various but all our forefathers did and believd ahave experienced and only then told on to to us.but the pathetic situation is in the realm of making money and bringing up our kith and kin we have lost so many values and that colud be the reason that we see poverty among brahmins.not able to cope with the modern thoughts brahmins have changed themselves evil and selfish.forgeting all values.our forefathers etc., have never transfered their education on to us in the name of being modern and scietific.but when we learn all sciences it exactly matches to all the traditions and spirituality that our forefathers and tec., have believed.anyway we shoul dlearn very much that charity begins at home and whatever we give we do give it for our religion first and then to else
thank u

 

[srkpriv]

Here is a statistics of total number of students absorbed into MBBS programs under OC category (non-reserved) as given in dnaindia.com. You can find the details in the link below;

highlights of this report;

Nothing, not unexpectedly, came of it. In Tamil Nadu, Backward Castes (BC) get 30 per cent reservation in educational institutions, Most Backward Castes (MBC) 20; Scheduled Castes (SC) 18; and Scheduled Tribes (ST) one per cent. The 1,224 medical seats then get divided into 354 for BCs; 247 for MBCs; 226 for SCs; and 13 for STs.

http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1030416&CatID=2

This pretty much says we have been wiped out of TN completely.

 

[srkpriv]

Here is a statistics of total number of students absorbed into MBBS programs under OC category (non-reserved) as given in dnaindia.com. You can find the details in the link below;

highlights of this report;

Nothing, not unexpectedly, came of it. In Tamil Nadu, Backward Castes (BC) get 30 per cent reservation in educational institutions, Most Backward Castes (MBC) 20; Scheduled Castes (SC) 18; and Scheduled Tribes (ST) one per cent. The 1,224 medical seats then get divided into 354 for BCs; 247 for MBCs; 226 for SCs; and 13 for STs.

The rest of the 384 seats are allowed as open competition, where everyone competes, regardless of community. In 2005, the final tally released by the Directorate of Medical Education indicates only 28 students from the `non-reserved’ or Forward Caste (FC) have got into government medical colleges, representing about 2.3%.

http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1030416&CatID=2

This pretty much says we have been wiped out of TN completely.

 

[srkpriv]

The sad part is the guy who scores the most gets chucked out!. The guy who scores the least is guaranteed the seat!.

 

[subalaji]

Cant we use these kind of statistics to fight with Supreme Court , arent we minority community in Tamilnadu why cant we start a minority institution what is the basis of getting minority status , the poor medical college admission is also because no one wants to take biology as a subject in the brahmin community

 

[srkpriv]

The problem is not that we are a minority community but rather are we socially backward that is the question. Pretty much every community is minority community in India if you consider them individually, for indian has 2000 castes (yes 2000 you heard it right) or something like that. You can fight with the supreme court, but supreme court will be powerless to do anything in my opinion because the laws regarding the conversion is enshrined into our constitution meaning the sprit of consitition will be intact as in everyone is equal except those who are socially backward in educational insititutions. Regarding medial college admissions only 28 seats went to the FC community in total of 1220 seats. That means the other communities who are not FC, are eating the 30% or so FC seats as well.

 

[cheenus]

As per SRKPRV's stats on reservation,
Its a slauter and mockery of the system i wonder if it continues which i presume will for next cetury or so.
already it looks like Game over its hightime most of folks out there pack their Bags ASAP.I am afraid way things go they may introduce reservation even in the private sector.
We R all doomed......
I HATE congress for the rest of my life.

 

[cheenus]

hi SRKPRV I like youR logo "U R days R numbered".

 

[srkpriv]

Thanks. Sounds very appropriate reflecting our situation...

hi SRKPRV I like youR logo "U R days R numbered".

 

[mukesh]

I totall disagree withthe argument "This pretty much says we have been wiped out of TN completely" and this can'nt be becuase of reservation. 28 OC students out of 384 can be analysed in 2ways. Either Brahmin community is solely losing its core competency that is Merit and that's the reasons we could'nt capture enought seats out of 384. Had Brahmin still excel in studies, we shoulf have got more than 100seats atleast. This shows that our focus should be on improving the skills of brahmins and helpimng them financially,educattionall which ******* or Sankara Mutt can do. On the other hand, in the present trend brahmins are more focussing more on IT/Commerrce and very few effluent prefers to try out on medicine. So there is a chance that less people would have applied and hence 28 seats. This analysis should me made from percentage of total no of people enrolled applied for. For argument sake in tamilnadu say they are going to bring the resercation to 50%, then still what is the guarented that we will cross that 28% unless we analyze waht is lagging. Hope i make sense

 

[srkpriv]

I totall disagree withthe argument

That is pretty much the essence/purpose of discussion boards.

"This pretty much says we have been wiped out of TN completely" and this can'nt be becuase of reservation. 28 OC students out of 384 can be analysed in 2ways. Either Brahmin community is solely losing its core competency that is Merit and that's the reasons we could'nt capture enought seats out of 384.

A percentage of other communities who avail the quota benefit, normally enter the OC (unreserved seats as well) due to merit resulting in erosion of the FC community seats due to direct competition. We can either think this as brahmins are losing competitiveness or NB are gaining advantage, as, in we will be wiped out, if this sytem continues further. I am not sure how you understand the quota works; This is how it works as far as I understand, for example, after the entrance tests, let's say 1000 seats are there of which 69% goes to SC/ST, BC/MBC, and remaining to OC, what they do is for the remaining 39% of the seats, they give out to the top scorers regardless of category. That means the top 39% scorers will get the top 39% of the seats and let's say the lower end of the score is 91% for the top 39%, only those who score equal to or above 91% gets to go into OC quota. If significant number of non-brahmins (who already belong to quota as well) occupy the 91% quota, out of 390 seats, let' say 375 goes to NB (in real case 384 seats went to OC in 2005 for medical), the people in the FC are just 15, out of which actual brahmin percentage could be very much lower may be 10 or 5 or whatever. The question is not whether brahmins are losing competitiveness, the others are gaining advantage because in NB community there are so many who have good access to schools, colleges, training and better life who can surely do a better than the the rest of NB. The overall majority of non-brahmins take a 69% of the seats and the well to do eat the rest (39%) as well, so pretty much, when the OC at 90% or 95% mark don't have much to improve, that means we have to score 100% or 99% regardless which in theory can be achieved by everybody but in practice is not an easy task!.

Had Brahmin still excel in studies, we shoulf have got more than 100seats atleast. This shows that our focus should be on improving the skills of brahmins and helpimng them financially,educattionall which ******* or Sankara Mutt can do.

The above pretty much explains you cannot excel beyond excellent already. Brahmins who secure 80% marks dont even qualify for any professional courses, including science courses like B.Sc. etc.. now-a-days inspite of 80% being a good mark, where as, a SC/ST would secure just 55% or 60% and he will get a medical seat directly.

On the other hand, in the present trend brahmins are more focussing more on IT/Commerrce and very few effluent prefers to try out on medicine.

Pretty much ran out of choice, the only thing that is available is IT/Commerce which due to high demand for workers recruit everyone regardless of marks. This is the only choice available. The medicine you can only imagine if you get atleast 95%, engineering if you are at 90% for merit seats, for management quota, you can surely get for lesser marks, but that accessible to the well to do!.

So there is a chance that less people would have applied and hence 28 seats.

There is a chance, people just by looking at their marks know whether they qualify or not, and why waste application money and effort. Also, with the above mentioned backdrop of information I guess the chance is slim!. Your mark is good but not GOOD ENOUGH!.

This analysis should me made from percentage of total no of people enrolled applied for. For argument sake in tamilnadu say they are going to bring the resercation to 50%, then still what is the guarented that we will cross that 28% unless we analyze waht is lagging. Hope i make sense

For argument sake if they bring the reservation to 50%, we will get a better chance of representation because the lowe rend of merit quota might get reduced to let's say 85% instead of 91% and relatively we will get more seats available, but again, it is quite RELATIVE, because if the other guy, eats your pie, you still get less and less!.


So pretty much this sums up the how we systematically get wiped out!. We are not yet wiped out, but will eventually be!. You may not see this now, in 20 years from now. You wont be seeing a lot of Dr. Radha Krishnan's MD, Srinivasa Raghavan IAS, or a Dr.Subramanian Chandrasekhar PhD in the future a lot!.

Hope I explained my stand more clearly this time.

 

[Chintana]

Hi all,

All of the posts point to the necessity of becoming more aware of what is happening everywhere to Brahmins and getting together to do something about it.

I agree with Cheenus' message in that we should stop the blame game and figure out how to stem this intelligently.

Our thinking and attitude as a community needs to be updated. In this respect I find the younger generation more receptive than the older generations.

As to Brahmins being wiped out of TN completely, I couldn't agree more with srkpriv.

But we must not lose hope in trying to find an end to this mess. One of the things that has always bothered me is that it is one thing to fight and lose, and quite another to not fight at all! When I say fight I don't mean picking up arms and indulging in terrorism. I mean coming together as a group and posing sound arguments in defense of the community whenever anything is being done to it publicly. What is very shocking is the utter belief in the older generations that 'Nothing can be done! This is our fate!' type of an attitude.

We must do what we can, take baby steps if necessary to find out what can be done and how we can do it.

Thanks for letting me share my views.

 

[mukesh]

I agree with SKPRIV to some extent, but not fully. You said if the reservation is brought down to 50%, you mentioned that there is a slight fair chance of more brahmins getting in to medical because of reduction in the cut off limit. I doubt, because the BC's who ate the seats in the 69% quota will also eat even when it is 50%. Because we dont have data of FC's in the 80-90% range. My argument is if we could'nt able to produce atleast 40-50 of brahmins in the 91% plus range, this shows that brahmins might be losing its focus on education or atleast i medical since we dont have the figures for engg and other admistrative services. Also, the other communities have started doing well and they being classified as back ward is mere political and vote bank politics. More over the cut off percentance for FC & BC is very less and this makes the BC who form 30% of the population to work hard to be competetive and in that process jump into open category. I agree that it hard for evey brahmin to be intelligent, but still 40 brahmins in a total of 380 is achievable if we really aim for it.

Since we can'nt bring down the quato to 50% for atleast next 10yrs, and even political parties inthe north is going to come up with quota for economically back ward, in tamil nadu it wont be implemented, atleast by DMk because of sheer anti-brahminsm.

In the light of this, there is no point in just discussing how so called backwards are eating our seats,instead we should work as a group to bring up the community as kamaraj did for nadar community and how gownder progressed as a comminity. These communites are still not dependiing on education.

I would suggesst few action items.

Let we the brahmins in US prepare a Project Plan that has following.

1. Statistics of details of brahmins living all over world and
their education and profession
2. Percentage of brahmins that needed upliftment and
possible locations.
3. Way in which we can help them like :

1.Creating aware ness on responsibilties and shrinking
oppurnutinies and hence the need of hard work/education.
2.Conducting career counselling sesstions and recommendation
for jobs thro brahmin executives in big companies.
3.Conducting free coaching for poor and middle class
brahmins for medical, engineering and other key professions.
4. Prociding financial scholar ships for very poor students.
5. Help gettting loans for brahmins who want to venture
into business.
6. Building libary where they can loan books for studies and even
many educated brahmins can donate book for this.

Since we are in US and can'nt execute these projects, we can prepare a plan and send it to ******* and urge them the need for Mass Upliftment Programme. At any cost this should not be publisiced and should not be shown as against the goverment. This should be a silent movement and this should not alienate us from other castes.
I just drafted it from my mind and ignore any grammatical mistakes.
I hope some thing concrete should emanate from our discusstions, instead of mere talking.

Please let me have your comments.

 

[srkpriv]

What's wrong in fighting that way. I used to say that too, We need to object, but always end it with peacefully!. If we are talkign about protests and asserting our rights and nothing is working, that's the last resort isn't it?.

There is a thing with humans you know, we are all fundamentally the same people no matter what. But we are in a different group now or atleast perceive ourselves in different groups. Being that the case, why not take it all the way till the end. Why remove that option from the table?. Btw, dont we know the four basic things in art of negotiation the "Sama, Dhana, Beda, Dhand" methodology?.

Anyway I am still not espousing the last option, I think, we haven't even properly tried the first option.

But we must not lose hope in trying to find an end to this mess. One of the things that has always bothered me is that it is one thing to fight and lose, and quite another to not fight at all! When I say fight I don't mean picking up arms and indulging in terrorism.

 

[srkpriv]

This is pretty much the solutions what I suggested earlier, and some of the others suggested as well. Looks like we are all in agreement atleast on this, so the question is not what to implement, rather a how to?

I agree with SKPRIV to some extent, but not fully. You said if the reservation is brought down to 50%, ....

 

[Chintana]

Kudos to Mukesh. I second this plan whole heartedly.

 

[mukesh]

I can suggest few action items.

1. Let the moderator send a e-mail to all the member seeking their opinion about the proposal.
2. In the next 1 month, let us forward info about this group to as much people as possible and seek their opinion/co operation.
3. Let us form a core group of like minded people who can spend and dedicate atleast 15 mins a day initially to help preparing a plan.
4. Once we have the plan finalised, let us have it reveiwed by all members.
5. Then we can approach some one who is influential and who has some assosiation with *******. We can brief them about the plan and urge them to take up this cause.
6. Then we wil work out how we will be co operating from here.

This all sound like a dream. But, I feel a mere conviction will help us achieve this, because it is the same conviction that brought us to US which many people still dream about.

 

[Chintana]

All of Mukesh's suggestions are great. The only point where I differ is that I think we should leave ******* alone. If they haven't been effective so far chances are that they are not going to be of much use.

I am nervous about entrenched bureaucratic approaches that merely serve the goals of a select few. I am not at all happy about the lack of percolating effect that ******* has had. Lets leave them alone.

And yes, this is just a question of hope and conviction and perhaps a good dose of patience. We must be prepared to press on even if we face setbacks.