Spiritual Frauds

[renuka]

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dear all, lets put and end to all this bashing.
Sathya Sai Baba has clearly mentioned before that no one need to defend Him.

let love prevail among the members of this forum so that it will spread to the loka and samastha.
i am not defending sathya sai baba as i have no authority to do so but i cant help qouting Him
"make your life a rose that speaks silently in the language of fragrance"

 

[KRS]

Dear Sowbhagyavathi Renukakarthikeyan,

Beautiful sentiment, eloquently expressed.

Just so that everyone understands - I am not at all defending Sri Sai Baba. I am defending the sentiments of countless of his Bhakthas within our community who look up to him.

Regards,
KRS

 

[renuka]

dear KRS sir,
thank you so much for protecting the feelings of others.
God bless you always

 

[KRS]

I have moved all the posts after the above one under the thread 'From the Moderator's Viewpoint' thread under this 'General Discussions' Forum, for continuing the pertinent arguments.

Regards,
KRS

 

[Siddhanta]

Personally from my viewpoint i do not beleive or trust in any spiritual leader of today or after the onset of Kali Yuga. Because i beleive that in Kali Yuga, where scriptures say there is absolute immorality and Kaos, the dark age of quarrel, i beleive there is no spiritualism left on Earth. Also in Bhagavantam, Lord Krishna told only by chanting the name of "Hari" one can be close to God in Kali Yuga. This is Lord Krishna's advice to people of Kali Yuga.

We still have a lot of temples and we can go for pilgrimage, offer puja, chant mantras and be close to our Gods rather than beleiving in "saviors" or spiritual leaders. This is only the beginning, there will be a lot of such spiritual people coming in the future.

To be spiritual is quite simple. In the west they have found that certain human brains produce frequencies that affect the thought patterns of others. People with such a brain can make another person's brain peaceful scientifically but there is no involvement of our Gods in this and this is not spiritualism.

This is only my viewpoint. I also do not use mobile phones for this reason. They are capable of changing thought patterns.

My understanding is most of the spiritual leaders are this type of ELF(Extremely Low Frequency) wave generators who can give peace of mind scientifically.

YOUR BRAIN


These insidious towers (GWEN & HAARP) can also "do a number" on your emotional state. Thanks to people like Dr. Andrea Puharich [[who incidentally promoted the fame of Uri Geller,]] who had studied brain waves in the 50s & 60s, observed that our brains are extremely vulnerable to any technology that sends out ELF waves.


HOW TO MANIPULATE YOUR BRAIN


Puharich found that we "feel good" at 7.83 Hz (Earth's pulse rate) ~ but at 10.80 Hz, it causes riotous behavior, whereas 6.6 Hz causes depression. The Russians got wind of these things (since at first they were rejected by the US GOVT.,) AND BY JULY 4, 1976, the Russians began zapping the U.S. Embassy in Moscow with electromagnetic waves, focusing on [[YOU GUESSED IT!]] 10 Hz.


BOTH THE RUSSIANS & NORTH KOREANS use this magic formula to extract confessions; since it is a form of hypnotism, according to Nicholas Jones, some American churches use it to make the congregation believe. (p.390) [[Interestingly enough, I remember Jordan Maxwell once giving a lecture where he discussed the origin of the word 'church' as a Scottish word, 'kirk' which means to hypnotize. For those who go to church, it may be advisable to bring your ELF detector with you, just to make sure YOUR church is on the level ~ with both you & God.]]

EveLorgen.com

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Swaminthasharma Ji,

Don't you mean 243?

Regards,
KRS

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

Belief and faith comes to a person from his own experiences or his conviction that it will be beneficial for him. Even belief in God is also a personal faith. Faith and belief vary depending on the necessities, exigencies,stakes, territory,communication ,comprehending ability, reason ,logic etc .etc . and a lot.

Even a person who says that “I don’t believe in God “ is actually having a particular belief or faith- that he is not a believer.

As the proof of the pudding is in the eating, the real and the fake can be distinguished ,many times at a late stage, whereby the damage could have already been done.

People land into hands of fake spiritual individuals ,because by keeping a faith and belief to be totally private( to avoid loss,or share of benefit) without communicating to other experienced and knowledgeable people, they are forced face the consequences alone, thus denying the opportunity of exposing the fakes.

As far as there are people ready to be cheated, there will be expert cheaters.

Fakes are not just in spiritual field alone.We read about quacks in medical profession.
But why it get exposed relatively soon is—there are accepted practices and methods of verification and liability.In spiritual field , there is no Agmark,no lab to verify genuineness.

Hence one’s own caution and alertness only can save from bad situations of spiritual cheating.

Sri Sidhanta has opined that “Personally from my viewpoint i do not beleive or trust in any spiritual leader of today or after the onset of Kali Yuga. Because i beleive that in Kali Yuga, where scriptures say there is absolute immorality and Kaos, the dark age of quarrel, i beleive there is no spiritualism left on Earth.”

My understanding is that , in the Chatur yuga(period of four Yugas ) the Dharma (Good) loses one leg in each yuga.(Let us understand that one leg is one quarter) Thus ending up with only one leg in Kali Yuga.—i.e in the present Kli Yuga, the Good is only one fourth and the Bad is three fourth. But ultimately Good will persist with God’s intervention. So at that time when severe elaborate rituals may not be practical,or situations not condusive,Naamajapam is advised.

I am welcome to be corrected if wrong.

Greetings.

 

[Siddhanta]

To not get cheated by spiritual frauds one can do analysis of our Scriptures, Bhagavantam, Ramayana and Mahabharatha. However any "teaching" or scripture after the onset of Kali Yuga, i find it taking the faith in our Gods farther away.

The teachings of Kali Yuga seemingly promise to promote peace, but in reality ends up in creating chaos. The optimistic ones still beleive everything that "seem" to be spiritual is spiritual. That is optimism and it is an individual's will and right to follow his/her own faith or belief.

To identify an avatar is quite simple. We can take the example of Rama Avatar and Krishna avatar. Lord Ram lives the life of a normal human. Lord Krishna also was raised in a cowherd and he used his powers only during times of demonic interventions. None of the avatars claimed to be God, and performed miracles in front of a congregation. This is my understanding of our Gods from our scriptures before Kali Yuga. The avatars are praised for the tasks they did to eradicate evil on Earth, not for their little miracles they performed.

 

[pannvalan]

I am of the opinion that all shades opinions must be allowed to be presented, so long as they remain civil, cogent and backed by certain amount of truth or evidence. The last part only is open to debate and questioning and will lead to controversies.

There is nothing wrong in criticising someone's philosophies and actions, because their entire activities are in the public domain. The only guiding factor for both the sides is to meet falsehood with tangible facts and evidence.

If a person or a guru or a Bhagawan is well above criticism, why one should obstruct criticism at all?

I am reminded of B.K. Karanjia who called "........" (the banned name here) as a hermaphrodite and a paedophile, later himself became an ardent devotee of him.
It could be a case of change of heart or realisation of his folly or any other untold reason.

I too don't believe that merely because a person has a vast following spread across the universe or has been a respected figure for many decades, others lose the right to criticise him.

I myself have witnessed in 1980s a strange phenomenon. My neighbour in Mahabubnagar in A.P. was Assistant Branch Manager (Sales) in LIC of India. In his house, one day, he showed the faint image of this person on the surface of milk stored in a vessel. Some people have told they get vibhuti from the picture of this man, at regular intervals.

It is not my job to do a thorough investigation into the veracity of such incidents. But, don't dismiss the report filed a reputed media like BBC simply because it is operating from a country of christians. (Note the difference here: it is not a christian country),

Besides, one who has amassed a huge, immeasurable amount of wealth and runs an empire with its own codifications and laws, even if he utilizes a major portion of his assets for the society's interests (infrastructure, education, healthcare, drinking water, food and weaker section housing), cannot be called a saint by any stretch of imagination. Then, does he qualify for being called an 'avatar'?

As a person who has done Master' degree in Psychology, it has always been an area of interest to me to study such closed societies. What I have found is even people with extra-ordinary intelligence and many noteworthy achievements to their credit in their own profession/field, become so passionate and obsessed that they do not see reasoning into the critics' line of argument. This is possibly due to the perceived peace/solace they got, after undergoing long inner struggle.

I am very disappointed at the stance taken by the moderators in this connection to censor/edit those portions which they find objectionable and unacceptable, only in case of one individual.

I appeal to them to be more liberal and accommodative, as it serves the interests of all members. I earnestly request members like Venkataramani, Nara and others to continue with their posts, conveying the same views but in a more refined way.

As I always tell:

"Unarchigalai adakka
vendiyathillai;
Avatrai nagarigamaga
velipadutha katru kollungal;
Samudhayathil ungal nilai uyarum".

 

[KRS]

Dear Sr Pannvalan Ji Sir,

I do not think that the moderators' stand is properly understood. Several assumptions are being made that are not correct and let me explain.

First one needs to remember the primary goal of this Forum. It is to unite all TB communities. This is why when folks attack other sampradhayams from the viewpoint of one sampradhayam (like Iyers saying that Iyengars in general are not trustworthy, as one person here claimed not too long ago, such statements are edited out), based on the unity principle. Such statements do not add value here.

Secondly one needs to understand what sentiments of a lot of our members we need to protect. For example, we have allowed discussions questioning MahaPeriaval's not seeing widows or what our scriptures say or information about some people who pose as 'Gurus'.

The difference with Sri Sai Baba is that he is followed by a large number of people in our community (his pictures are in the pooja room) and we can allow discussions about his 'miracles' and their import. But allowing a basic question whether he is a fraud and fake will clearly hurt the sentiments of these countless folks. In my opinion, such a discussion will be counter productive, with no conclusive answers and only will help disuniting us. I really think that one needs to be careful in what one is saying when it comes to questioning the legitamacy of someone who has so many followers, believers. So on the principle of unity I deleted passages which questioned Sri Sai Baba's very validity as a Guru.

But I did not shut down the thread. It is continuing as you see.

BBC is not always reliable when it tackles Hinduism. One can not, in my opinion draw definitive conclusions from it's reporting - again it was 4 years old. Nothing has come out of it since then. Why then make definitive statements about him which can not be proved beyond doubt? Are we going to somehow establish in this Forum that he is not what he seems to be? How does one do that? Especially when he does such an outstanding free service to our poor?

I perfectly understand where Sri Venkataramani Ji is coming from.As I have repeated many times, I am not a Sri Sai Baba follower. But my job as a moderator is to weigh the positives and negatives of a statement and measure whether it breaches the vulgarity norm. To me just making statements that a respected Guru by the community is fraud on the basis of a dated BBC article and Youtube video and based on his reaction to an incident is not enough to allow it here. To me unless one has proof in this matter, it is akin to vulgarity.

We allow discussions on the Mahatma and his policies. But we would delete any words that promote that his assassination is valid as vulgar.

This is the difference. When folks see vulgar statements - I am using 'vulgar' as 'that which is offensive language' from the Webster's - they tend to turn off from the source and I would rather not take that chance to foster unity and increased membership in our Forum, rather than to allow such unsbstantiated statements.

You all know that this Forum allows for almost everything under the sky to be discussed without any censorship. But there are a few limitations as I have explained above.

Regards,
KRS

 

[pannvalan]

Dear KRS,

Thanks indeed for your prompt response.

The prefix and suffix to my name may please be avoided henceforth.

We do not gain anything by attacking one individual, only to derive some sadistic pleasure or cheap publicity.

I seriously request you to go through the book written by Bharanidharan about his own experience and how Mahaperiyava saved him from the ordeal, by intervening at the right moment.

I can quote some more incidents, but certain things you know, cannot be proved like a mathematical problem or scientific experiment in a laboratory condition, to the acceptance of all.

I agree that hurting a large section of the people is not a good manners and is to be avoided.

I quit this thread, with these concluding lines.

"Oon udalam padaithar tham
ullathal uyarndhalum,
Manudare avar andri
marai mudhalai agaare".

 

[RVR]

Latest spiritual fraud

Today's Sun TV has exposed the spiritual frauds of Nithyananda Paramahamsa.

Since the pictures available in the internet are all vulgar, I am not enclosing any link. Please find out yourself.

All the best

 

[renuka]

Today's Sun TV has exposed the spiritual frauds of Nithyananda Paramahamsa.

Since the pictures available in the internet are all vulgar, I am not enclosing any link. Please find out yourself.

All the best

Dear RVR anna,

I saw the video,it does not look like him that much and the person is always trying to avoid been seen on camera.
I feel he is a victim of some group who has a hidden agenda.

I am so suprised that the video was shown in Prime time news...
Doesnt the News Station have Censors Law to follow?

I am not a devotee of NithyanandaJi but I personaly feel he is being framed here.

renu

 

[RVR]

Dear RVR anna,

I saw the video,it does not look like him that much and the person is always trying to avoid been seen on camera.
I feel he is a victim of some group who has a hidden agenda.

I am so suprised that the video was shown in Prime time news...
Doesnt the News Station have Censors Law to follow?

I am not a devotee of NithyanandaJi but I personaly feel he is being framed here.

renu

There seems to be no censorship for Sun TV group. The visuals are vulgar and intolerable.

It seems Nityananda is missing.

It is highly deplorable to use religion for such activities.

 

[amala]

I just saw this on Sun Tv's Nijam with Nithyananda and actress Ranjitha. Disgraceful!

 

[drsundaram]

Most of us, by now, are aware of media coverge of Sri Paramahamsa Nithyananda. Prima facie though shocking, Asram spokes person had said that the video is fake and another inmate of Asram has morphed his face to defame Sri Swami. Let Time tell us the answer. Now what I want to know is that in case of this kind of unexpected revelations, in general, what the followers and devotees should do in respect of teachings and preachings by Swami till day before>>> whether to carry on with the prayers and Dhyans he has taught though in the back drop, the mind comes upfront and colludes the sincerity. And how to deal with the significance of all His teachings. All the Topics are Eternal & being covered by other Gurus also, from time to time. In case if proved right as per media reports what one to do with all whatever he was preaching and doctrining >>>whether to dispense with from that day OR what are taught being common and usables accept them alone but to ignore Him alone.
There may be many in this forum who are against God men/ women. With due respects to them I request clarifications not from any opinionated minds. I am just looking for simple straightaway guidance with a prayer not to be drawn into any argumentative hassles but welcoming a healthy discussion.
I don’t know what I am mentioning is clear and makes sense.
I am sure many's doubts will be cleared by the inputs of our enlightened member's views on these points.
Thank you.

 

[RVR]

Dr Sundaram,

Unfortunately religion has become a big business.

It is not only HIndu religion but all the religions in the world.

Believing in God is one thing. Believing in God men is another.

The new age God men have become highly suspicious.

If the God man has really given up every thing in life, why then he amaze wealth. Did Seshadri Swamigal or Ramana Maharishi amaze wealth? Paramacharyal use to respect both of them. During his last days, Paramacharyal has asked his close associates whether he can attain the same feet which Seshadri Swamigal attained. Paramacharyal use to send his foreign visitors to Ramana Maharishi for clarifications on advaitha philosophy.

Both Seshadri Swamigal and Ramana Maharishi didn't follow the traditional mutt principles. But both became great by their own simple living and noble thoughts.

Unfortunately I am not impressed with any of the present day new generation God men. Please tell me one God man who has not amazed wealth. Each God man is worth billions of dollars or thousands of crores of rupees.

Once a God man amazes wealth, spirituality takes a back seat. All sorts of other viruses spread in the so called ashram.

One of my distant relative is already caught in the Nityananda episode. A young boy after completing engineering degree took sanyas under Nityananda just two years back. Sanyas was offered to the boy instantaneously without any problem.Nobody knows what happened to him and my relatives are very much worried.

I remember few decades back another relative of mine took sanyas from Paramacharya. Most of the followers of Kanchi mutt may know `Mettur Swamigal' who is a relative of me. His origional name is Gopu. He took engineering degree in the early sixties and was working with Mettur Chemicals. He never got married and wanted to take up sanyas but Paramacharya didn't give him instantaneously. Sri Gopu also waited patiently and it took almost two decades for Sri Gopu to obtain sanyas from Paramacharyal.

The new generation swamijis attract youngsters, both boys and girls due to pressure of work and life. The ashrams have luxuries life style. The entire environment is highly polluted and I am not surprised such things happening regularly.

I just want to know one thing. Why these new generation swamiji's prefer Bangalore or some other Hill station for their ashram. Bangalore is full of software professionals who work round the clock and want some relaxation. These ashrams get business from these people. These swamijis use hill stations for summer camp. They get the required climate without air conditioning.

If you notice, murder is taking place in these ashrams and the swamijis get away without punishment. Sexual harassment is taking place regularly.

As some body pointed out in this forum, we don't have scarcity of scriptures. We have temples everywhere.

Instead of believing in the God men, let our youngsters believe in our scriptures and God. I am sure they will be taken to the right path.

All the best

 

[tbs]

Dr Sundaram,

Unfortunately religion has become a big business.

It is not only HIndu religion but all the religions in the world.

Believing in God is one thing. Believing in God men is another.

The new age God men have become highly suspicious.

If the God man has really given up every thing in life, why then he amaze wealth. Did Seshadri Swamigal or Ramana Maharishi amaze wealth? Paramacharyal use to respect both of them. During his last days, Paramacharyal has asked his close associates whether he can attain the same feet which Seshadri Swamigal attained. Paramacharyal use to send his foreign visitors to Ramana Maharishi for clarifications on advaitha philosophy.

Both Seshadri Swamigal and Ramana Maharishi didn't follow the traditional mutt principles. But both became great by their own simple living and noble thoughts.

Unfortunately I am not impressed with any of the present day new generation God men. Please tell me one God man who has not amazed wealth. Each God man is worth billions of dollars or thousands of crores of rupees.

Once a God man amazes wealth, spirituality takes a back seat. All sorts of other viruses spread in the so called ashram.

One of my distant relative is already caught in the Nityananda episode. A young boy after completing engineering degree took sanyas under Nityananda just two years back. Sanyas was offered to the boy instantaneously without any problem.Nobody knows what happened to him and my relatives are very much worried.

I remember few decades back another relative of mine took sanyas from Paramacharya. Most of the followers of Kanchi mutt may know `Mettur Swamigal' who is a relative of me. His origional name is Gopu. He took engineering degree in the early sixties and was working with Mettur Chemicals. He never got married and wanted to take up sanyas but Paramacharya didn't give him instantaneously. Sri Gopu also waited patiently and it took almost two decades for Sri Gopu to obtain sanyas from Paramacharyal.

The new generation swamijis attract youngsters, both boys and girls due to pressure of work and life. The ashrams have luxuries life style. The entire environment is highly polluted and I am not surprised such things happening regularly.

I just want to know one thing. Why these new generation swamiji's prefer Bangalore or some other Hill station for their ashram. Bangalore is full of software professionals who work round the clock and want some relaxation. These ashrams get business from these people. These swamijis use hill stations for summer camp. They get the required climate without air conditioning.

If you notice, murder is taking place in these ashrams and the swamijis get away without punishment. Sexual harassment is taking place regularly.

As some body pointed out in this forum, we don't have scarcity of scriptures. We have temples everywhere.

Instead of believing in the God men, let our youngsters believe in our scriptures and God. I am sure they will be taken to the right path.

All the best

hi venkat sir,
sabaash...im with 100% with u....wht u said is correct...believe
in GOD not godmen....these present so called godmen...starting
with innocent young boys/girls...then politicians...then cine actors..
a lot of money/muscle power...slowly lavish ashram....slowly
charitable trust...to get exemptions from income tax....amazing
wealth/properties....slowly engineering/medical colleges...
a lot of black money donations....slowly many branch ashrams..
a lot of fame/ wealth with political support/police protections...
in the mean while spritual/social activities gone..starting with
vattam/kottam/maa vattam/maa nilam/inter state/ then
inter national ashrams........sometimes ppl criticize OSHO bhagavan...
now a days all god men follow look like OSHO....it is not good for
community/religion/or even for a country....

regards
tbs

 

[drsundaram]

Dr Sundaram,

Unfortunately religion has become a big business. I AGREE TO SOME EXTENT SRI RVR

It is not only HIndu religion but all the religions in the world. MOSTLY HINDU RELIGION ONLY IS RIDICULED NOWADAYS

Believing in God is one thing. Believing in God men is another. I DONT UNDERSTAND THIS, SRI RVR. YOU CALL GODMEN. I CALL GURU , SRI SANKARACHARYA IS A GURU . GODMAN IS NEW WORD COINED. IS IT SAME OF GOD MAN?. I DONT KNOW. IF WE BELIEVE GOD, THEN GURU IS EQUALLY EXTOLLED IN SASTRAS, YOU MAY AGREE.

The new age God men have become highly suspicious. YES

If the God man has really given up every thing in life, why then he amaze wealth. Did Seshadri Swamigal or Ramana Maharishi amaze wealth? Paramacharyal use to respect both of them. During his last days, Paramacharyal has asked his close associates whether he can attain the same feet which Seshadri Swamigal attained. Paramacharyal use to send his foreign visitors to Ramana Maharishi for clarifications on advaitha philosophy.THOSE DAYS THEY WERE NOT INTO SOCIAL, PUBLIC WELFARE ACTIVITIES LIKE RUNNING SCHOOL ,MANAGING HOSIPTAL, HAVING COTTAGES TO ACOMMADATE FOLLOWERS/ DEVOTEES FROM LOCAL/ABROAD. BUT PRESENT DAYS THE TREND RATHER NEED BEING CHANGED THEY NEED MONEY TO SUSTAIN.THEN WHY ONE SHOULD NOT COLLECT MONEY. IS NOT TIRUPTHI DEVASWOM COLLECTING MONEY FOR EVERYTHING .ARE THEY NOT INTO LOT OF SPENDING ALSO? BUT THE MONEY RECEIPTS AND SPENDING ARE TO BE EXCLUSIVELY FOR PUBLIC USAGE ONLY AND CAN NOT BE UTILISED FOR ANY OTHER THING AND CALL FOR TOTAL TRANSPARENCY .

Both Seshadri Swamigal and Ramana Maharishi didn't follow the traditional mutt principles. But both became great by their own simple living and noble thoughts. YES, AS REQUIRED AT THAT POINT OF TIME.

Unfortunately I am not impressed with any of the present day new generation God men. Please tell me one God man who has not amazed wealth. Each God man is worth billions of dollars or thousands of crores of rupees. CAN YOU PLEASE TELL ME WHO HAS AMASSED WEALTH ON HIS/HER OR BENAMI'S WITH ADEQUATE PROOF.REALLY I WANT TO KNOW THIS FOR MY KNOWLEDGE & NOT TO REPUDIATE YOUR GOOD SELF.

Once a God man amazes wealth, spirituality takes a back seat. All sorts of other viruses spread in the so called ashram. NATURALLY. TOTALLY CORRECT

One of my distant relative is already caught in the Nityananda episode. A young boy after completing engineering degree took sanyas under Nityananda just two years back. Sanyas was offered to the boy instantaneously without any problem.Nobody knows what happened to him and my relatives are very much worried. PLEASE GIVE ME HIS NAME AND OTHER DETAILS. I CAN CHECK OUT AND LET YOU KNOW.

I remember few decades back another relative of mine took sanyas from Paramacharya. Most of the followers of Kanchi mutt may know `Mettur Swamigal' who is a relative of me. His origional name is Gopu. He took engineering degree in the early sixties and was working with Mettur Chemicals. He never got married and wanted to take up sanyas but Paramacharya didn't give him instantaneously. Sri Gopu also waited patiently and it took almost two decades for Sri Gopu to obtain sanyas from Paramacharyal. OK

The new generation swamijis attract youngsters, both boys and girls due to pressure of work and life. The ashrams have luxuries life style. The entire environment is highly polluted and I am not surprised such things happening regularly.IF THEY ATTRACT, WHY PARENTS ARE KEEPING QUIET?.WHO PREVENTS THE PARENTS TO RETRIVE THEIR WARDS. NOT ALL ASHRAMS ARE LUXURIOUS. IN FACT MANY ARE VERY RIGOROUSLY DISCIPLINED FOR VARIOUS DAY TO DAY LIVINGS. WHY FOREIGNERS LINE TO UP TO STAY IN THESE ASHRAMS WITH ALL THEIR WESTERN OUTLOOK.? IS IT BECOS WHAT THEY GET IN THEIR COUNTRY/HOME THEY DO GET HERE ALSO?

I just want to know one thing. Why these new generation swamiji's prefer Bangalore or some other Hill station for their ashram. Bangalore is full of software professionals who work round the clock and want some relaxation. These ashrams get business from these people. These swamijis use hill stations for summer camp. They get the required climate without air conditioning. AS FAR AS BANGALORE IS CONCERNED THIS CAN NOT BE CALLED AS HILL AREA IN TRUE SENSE AND PEOPLE NEED AIR CONDITIONG IN SUMMER THESE DAYS. FOR RELAXATION SOFTWARE PEOPLE HAVE OTHERS LIKE SPAS, MASSAGE PARLOURS, WEEK END SIT OUTS, RESORTS ETC ETC ALSO AS YOU KNOW . ONLY VERY VERY MEAGRE TURN TO GO TO ASRAMS ETC THAT TOO ONLY THAT DAY.

If you notice, murder is taking place in these ashrams and the swamijis get away without punishment. Sexual harassment is taking place regularly. CAN YOU BE MORE SPECIFIC WITH DETAILS PLEASE?

As some body pointed out in this forum, we don't have scarcity of scriptures. We have temples everywhere. WHICH TEMPLE TEACHES SCRIPTURES MAKING DEVOTEES TO SIT AND CONDUCT DISCOURSES AS ROUTINE ON VARIOUS TOPICS AND FOR COMBATING LIFE OF THE CURRENT SPEED?.

Instead of believing in the God men, let our youngsters believe in our scriptures and God. I am sure they will be taken to the right path. GOOD SUGGESTION
All the best

Sri RVR, let me stop with this on this thread as otherwise i will be misunderstood as If I am supporting to all the thoughts opposing yours and others too. My intention is not to support but to remain correctly and be neutral at this given age.Thank you

 

[RVR]

Dr Sundaram,

I am starting from the concluding para of yours.

Discussing openly about the God man including the so called acharyas which you have mentioned has to take place openly without any fear or favour. I always believe in frank and open debates.

Unfortunately my earlier exposure of a particular God man was deleted in these threads including his name wherever it appeared. This was done after four days of appearance in the forum thread. It only shows some vested interests are there everywhere to curtail the freedom of expression and protect the fraudulent God man.

When you and I discuss this subject, lot of truth may come out which may not be to the liking of the vested interests.

Hence I am not answering your queries in detail even though I have enough proof to reply each and every point of your posting.

If the forum administrators commit that they will permit open discussion and will not delete my postings, then I am willing to answer your queries.

I firmly believe, both of us are not in the opposite poles in the subject but are equally interested in finding out truth.

All the best

 

[drsundaram]

Dr Sundaram,

I am starting from the concluding para of yours.

Discussing openly about the God man including the so called acharyas which you have mentioned has to take place openly without any fear or favour. I always believe in frank and open debates.

Unfortunately my earlier exposure of a particular God man was deleted in these threads including his name wherever it appeared. This was done after four days of appearance in the forum thread. It only shows some vested interests are there everywhere to curtail the freedom of expression and protect the fraudulent God man.

When you and I discuss this subject, lot of truth may come out which may not be to the liking of the vested interests.

Hence I am not answering your queries in detail even though I have enough proof to reply each and every point of your posting.

If the forum administrators commit that they will permit open discussion and will not delete my postings, then I am willing to answer your queries.

I firmly believe, both of us are not in the opposite poles in the subject but are equally interested in finding out truth.

All the best

Sri RVR, thanks , noted. Meanwhile, may I recall what I had placed before all, i. e how and whether to recognise what Swami[whomsoever it is] had preached or ignore entirely. The question was about the preachings and not about the preacher. I think ,many in this thread, like to dwell more on preacher, by default. The person, whomsoever, in the present context ,is not important but the Matter please. I am concerned about what was taught whether to live by them now or to care least. Sorry if i am wrong.

 

[RVR]

Sri RVR, thanks , noted. Meanwhile, may I recall what I had placed before all, i. e how and whether to recognise what Swami[whomsoever it is] had preached or ignore entirely. The question was about the preachings and not about the preacher. I think ,many in this thread, like to dwell more on preacher, by default. The person, whomsoever, in the present context ,is not important but the Matter please. I am concerned about what was taught whether to live by them now or to care least. Sorry if i am wrong.

Dr Sundaram,

Most of the preaching of this dubious God man is not their own. They engage some professional experts to write and put their name in the books. Poor followers believe that these are written by these `God man'.

Preaching may be good because it is written by professional experts. But here also I feel let us not even go to these writings.

We have enough ancient literature on our religion on all languages. Let us select whatever we want, read and if possible follow the same. When so much of good books are there to read, why select the so called books of these fraudulent elements.

All the best

 

[anandb]

Sri. RVR,

I was expecting a mail from you after the Sun TV news as previously you went after Sathya Sai Baba and I had participated in that thread as well. Sri. Drsundaram had replied well to your post but let me share my opinion as well. At the outset let me say that each guru has to be analyzed on his/her own merit and not be lumped together generically as frauds or scoundrels. I will also state my position. My eternal guru is Paramacharya but I also revere the Sringeri Acharya, Sathya Sai and Nithayananda (even after the Sun TV news). Firstly, I request you to clearly understand what Hinduism is all about. This is a religion where the concept of avatars and gurus are synonymous with the religion itself. The reason is, I guess, not only to show the path of dharma to people but also to protect the religion from external forces by reinforcing the concepts of dharma among Hindus themselves. Hinduism does not have a central authority like the Islamic clergy or the Church to control those religions. In fact I would say this is more of an asset to Hinduism than otherwise because you can follow your own guru or god and still be on the right path. It is because of the concept of avatars and gurus that this religion has been able to survive the onslaughts on it for thousands of years while other religions similar in concept but no lineage of gurus had vanished from the face of the earth.

Your lament is why all the gurus cannot be like the Paramacharyal or Ramana Maharishi, simple and not accumulating wealth. Just like the purpose of every avatar is different, so also the purpose of gurus. Their method of reaching the masses is also different. I used to be like you once. As a boy, I used to revere the Paramacharyal for his simplicity and humility and detest Sathya Sai as he was more popular for his miracles. But then as I grew up, I learnt miracles are part and parcel of any saint and even the Paramacharyal had a fair share of them. It is just that their methods were different because their followers or in modern terms their target audience was different. A miracle can be in physical terms or in ways which touch your life that you can still feel. Millions of followers of Baba will vouch that he has touched their lives in so many ways. If you care to read, the Paramacharya had talked extensively about Gurus and Acharyas and says that he prays that our religion is blessed with a continuous succession of them.

You are talking about amassing wealth by these gurus. But what is the purpose? Are they using it for themselves? Apart from running the administrative set up, all the money gets spent on charitable activities. If you care to attend a Nithyananda lecture, there is an open Q & A session. All sorts of questions are thrown at him and someone asked the very same question. He was quite candid in saying that he himself is uncomfortable at the amounts charged for his courses but there are a lot of charitable activities that is being undertaken by his organization especially in villages and all this costs money. I think if the government wants and with the resources at its command will not take time to verify this. As for Sathya Sai, I attend the weekly bhajans here in Dubai and the amount of seva activities they undertake is mind boggling. How do I know? Because they announce these activities at every bhajan session where volunteers need to register and all these activities are undertaken with local charity/service groups.

Unfortunately, we Indians have perfected the technique of being armchair critics without getting to know deeply about these organizations. To say in a very general manner that murders and sexual harassment is taking place regularly and comments like why the Swamis choose Bangalore or go to hill stations adds no value to this discussion. And what you say does happen in cases of criminals who masquerade as gurus and get exposed in no time. But this is true in all walks of life. You have criminals masquerading as politicians, police, judges, doctors, scientists and even business corporations. So what do you do? Instead of weeding out the bad elements you eliminate the entire community? I really don’t understand this logic.

Finally, on the specific case of Swami Nithyananda, I believe in him totally. Me and my family and certain other people close to me and who I know are not the kind of people who get swayed emotionally have been touched in extraordinary ways by him. I also watched Sun News, luckily not the video, which I have no interest in watching anyway as I know its worth. Just looking at the way Sun TV is reporting makes this thing hugely suspicious. Firstly, it says that almost the entire TN is up in protest against this. Then it shows stray gangs of people whom it calls Nithyananda’s bhaktas smashing everything they can get hold of. It also interviews these so called “bhaktas”. Honestly, to me these “bhaktas” look like the types who will sing “bhangi அடிச்சேண்டி, பாண் பீடா போட்டேண்டி”. To call these paid goons as bhaktas is something only that Sun TV is capable of. And what a culture of violence they are promoting? By showing these clips repeatedly they try and incite more people into violence. Who is to take them to task? Forget the real bhakthas. For a neutral person, how can he pass judgment on the Swami when there is a possibility that the video could have been doctored?

Sri. RVR, previously your post was deleted I think because you had specifically mentioned the guru by name and called him a fraud and so on. The fact is the guru has a huge number of followers from all walks of life and this name calling can hurt people’s sentiments about him. Discussing these topics is a double whammy. You can’t discuss these topics in a general manner without someone asking for names and if you name a guru then his devotees are likely to get hurt. So the best thing is to leave this out in discussions because nothing can be achieved. You have to leave to the time honored test of time to tell if a guru is a bonafide one or not.

thanks

 

[RVR]

Sri Anandb,

You believe in whomsoever you want. I have no problem. But don't expect every body to accept your views.

If you feel Sun Tv has doctored the tapes, it can be sued in a court of law. After all India is a democratic country believing in rule of law. Let Nityananda or his bakthas sues him in a court of law.

If BBC has doctored tapes of exposing a Godman, let the Godman or his bakthas sues him in a British court. Britain also follows rule of law and respects human rights.

At the same time, freedom expression is a fundamental right both in Britain and India. Please respect it.

Hindu religion is built by so many saints. I can only invoke Thiagayya`s `Endoro Mahanu Bavulu'. But Thiagayya lived as a Unchavarthi brahmin. In another song, he says `nidhi sala sugama'. When the King offered ministerial post and wealth, he said he is happy with the lotus feet of Lord Rama than the wealth offered by the king. I respect Thiagayya`s views both on spiritualism and materialism.

These sort of spiritual frauds and dubious Godman are insult to Hindu religion. If we don't weed them out, it may spoil the foundation of the religion itself. If I support these people, it will amount to supporting these frauds.

I earnestly feel that I should not be a party to these frauds. I firmly believe Mahatma Gandhi's statement on Hinduism

Gandhi said, "My belief in the Hindu scriptures does not require me to accept every word and every verse as divinely inspired .... I decline to be bound by any interpretation, however learned it may be, if it is repugnant to reason or moral sense" (The Collected Work of Mahatma Gandhi, The Publication Division, Government of India, Vol. XXI, p. 246). Yet Gandhi was only following Hindu law.

To hide the truth, these God man gets involved in certain charitable activities. I earnestly feel that such activities is only to divert attention of public. These Godman doesn't give away all the money. Hardly they spend a small portion of their ill gotten wealth.

Even a thief or criminal worships God. It doesn't mean that his actions are approved by God. A Fraud is a Fraud. There is no two opinion about it.

I am a believer in Hindu religion and God. At the same time I respect EVR very much. In my mind EVR is many many times better than this fraudulent Godman.

All the best

 

[anandb]

Sri Anandb,

You believe in whomsoever you want. I have no problem. But don't expect every body to accept your views.

If you feel Sun Tv has doctored the tapes, it can be sued in a court of law. After all India is a democratic country believing in rule of law. Let Nityananda or his bakthas sues him in a court of law.

If BBC has doctored tapes of exposing a Godman, let the Godman or his bakthas sues him in a British court. Britain also follows rule of law and respects human rights.

At the same time, freedom expression is a fundamental right both in Britain and India. Please respect it.

Hindu religion is built by so many saints. I can only invoke Thiagayya`s `Endoro Mahanu Bavulu'. But Thiagayya lived as a Unchavarthi brahmin. In another song, he says `nidhi sala sugama'. When the King offered ministerial post and wealth, he said he is happy with the lotus feet of Lord Rama than the wealth offered by the king. I respect Thiagayya`s views both on spiritualism and materialism.

These sort of spiritual frauds and dubious Godman are insult to Hindu religion. If we don't weed them out, it may spoil the foundation of the religion itself. If I support these people, it will amount to supporting these frauds.

I earnestly feel that I should not be a party to these frauds. I firmly believe Mahatma Gandhi's statement on Hinduism

Gandhi said, "My belief in the Hindu scriptures does not require me to accept every word and every verse as divinely inspired .... I decline to be bound by any interpretation, however learned it may be, if it is repugnant to reason or moral sense" (The Collected Work of Mahatma Gandhi, The Publication Division, Government of India, Vol. XXI, p. 246). Yet Gandhi was only following Hindu law.

To hide the truth, these God man gets involved in certain charitable activities. I earnestly feel that such activities is only to divert attention of public. These Godman doesn't give away all the money. Hardly they spend a small portion of their ill gotten wealth.

Even a thief or criminal worships God. It doesn't mean that his actions are approved by God. A Fraud is a Fraud. There is no two opinion about it.

I am a believer in Hindu religion and God. At the same time I respect EVR very much. In my mind EVR is many many times better than this fraudulent Godman.

All the best

Sri, RVR,

I have seen that whenever there is a discussion on this topic you seem to get all agitated and hot-tempered and throw words around like darts. Little has changed. Since you have already made your judgment that they are all frauds, we will just be arguing in loops.

Have a good day, sir.