Spiritual Frauds

[RVR]

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Akura ji,

Your posting is very good. A person who really seeks truth will not get distorted by some petty powers attained in between.

Abhirami battar was seeking Abhirami's grace. He was not bothered whether the person who asked the question is a Raja or Kooja. He didn't bother about the thithi of the day. His only goal was the lotus feet of Goddess Abhirmai and he achieved it.

All the best

 

[renuka]

it is always the best to take the middle path in any undertaking and be unaffected by its outcome and be equiposed in all situations so our mind will not easily fall prey or be swayed by fraud.
after all, didnt Lord Krishna say in the Bhagavad Gita
"SUKHA DUKHE SAME KRTVAA
LAABHAALAABHAU JAYAAJAYAU"

we need to rise above the pairs of opposites and we need not look for fraud in others but rather within us. A fraudulent mind will only have fraudulent vision and divinity will not unfold infront of us.
maybe we feel that exposing fraud is being Sattvic in nature (the whole GOOD OVER EVIL SYNDROME )but even Sattva still binds us in the tightest of bonds.
arent we all supposed to rise above the Three Gunas in order to realise that everyone is indeed a GODMAN.(Tat Tvam Asi)

 

[RVR]

it is always the best to take the middle path in any undertaking and be unaffected by its outcome and be equiposed in all situations so our mind will not easily fall prey or be swayed by fraud.
after all, didnt Lord Krishna say in the Bhagavad Gita
"SUKHA DUKHE SAME KRTVAA
LAABHAALAABHAU JAYAAJAYAU"

we need to rise above the pairs of opposites and we need not look for fraud in others but rather within us. A fraudulent mind will only have fraudulent vision and divinity will not unfold infront of us.
maybe we feel that exposing fraud is being Sattvic in nature (the whole GOOD OVER EVIL SYNDROME )but even Sattva still binds us in the tightest of bonds.
arent we all supposed to rise above the Three Gunas in order to realise that everyone is indeed a GODMAN.(Tat Tvam Asi)

Lord Krishna wants Arjuna to fight against Adharma. We should also fight Adharma.

Spiritual Fraud is an Adharma

All the best

 

[renuka]

Fighting Adharma and upholding Dharma is the duty of a Kshatriya.

 

[DURGADASAN]

In devi upasana, the ashta siddhis will attain easily to the sadhaka to divert his thoughts and to change or degrade his mission. Even with that, person has to achieve. Tht is the great thing. Siddhis are temporary. I remember a story of ramakrishna paramahamsa. A man came happily to him said that, "I met the god and got the boon of walking in water". Swami simply hearing that said, "You idiot, if you give 5 rupees, the boatman will get you the other side of river. You wasted your penance." What he said is 100% sure na. Persons like black magicians cannot stand infront of a yogi. Since, we believe in god, there is noway we have to believe these kinda black magics also. But, a person fully faithful over god, need not worry on these silly things.

Fighting against these black magicians is a tough task for people like us. Arjuna has the power so krishna choose him. Also you should note one thing. Only in the presence of krishna, arjuna won the battle. Otherwise he will be a ??? today. So, if god's grace is with us everything is possible.

Pranams

 

[akura]

Dear Rv Ji
Thanks . There were saints who left their body immediately,once they got these powers without their seeking yet could not contain them .

One such saintly person is KAVYA GANDA GANAPTHI MUNI ,
who gave the name to Sri Ramana as Ramana Maharshi .
When he was near calcutta , he got the powers , if a metal coin
was kept in his palm -it turned out to be a gold coin , then he decided
to leave his body and he did so also .

 

[RVR]

Fighting Adharma and upholding Dharma is the duty of a Kshatriya.

Bhagavath Geetha is applicable to all. Arjuna happened to be a kshatriya and hence he adviced him to fight the war.

Great Rajaji, who has written `Kannan Kattia Vazhi', opposed Socialist policies of the Congress. I have listened to his speeches personally in my younger days and he use to say that he is duty bound to oppose socialist policies as they are harmful to the nation. Rajaji advocated free market which is happening now in India. It is still lingering in my ears of what Rajaji said `Let the businessman fight at the market place. Let them not fight at the corridors of power for Licences'

Rajaji is not a kshatriya and is a TB

All the best

 

[RVR]

Dear Rv Ji
Thanks . There were saints who left their body immediately,once they got these powers without their seeking yet could not contain them .

One such saintly person is KAVYA GANDA GANAPTHI MUNI ,
who gave the name to Sri Ramana as Ramana Maharshi .
When he was near calcutta , he got the powers , if a metal coin
was kept in his palm -it turned out to be a gold coin , then he decided
to leave his body and he did so also .

Thanks Akura ji,

I also heard about Late Sri Ganapathi Muni who was with Ramana Maharishi. They are all very great people seeking real Truth and Wisdom.

I heard about an ordinary Samiyar begging before Kandha Kottam, Chennai long back. He is known as `Ottai Kaalanaa Samiyar' ஓட்டை காலணா சாமியார் When he and his colleagues didn't get anything till the evening, he will ask for a ஓட்டை காலணா Ottai Kaalanaa and convert into Gold through his powers. With that he will feed all the fellow beggars and spend the entire money that day itself. If he gets his regular needs through begging, he will not indulge in the Ottai Kaalana converting into Gold job.

Endoro Mahanu Bhavulu. The country has seen many many great personalities. Let us bow before all of them.

All the best

 

[RVR]

Fighting against these black magicians is a tough task for people like us. Arjuna has the power so krishna choose him. Also you should note one thing. Only in the presence of krishna, arjuna won the battle. Otherwise he will be a ??? today. So, if god's grace is with us everything is possible.

Thanks Durgadasan ji.

I earnestly feel, it is our duty to fight the evil forces. I am sure Lord Krishna will give us enough strength. If we don't fight, we are failing in our duty which Lord Krishna will never forgive. Let us pray to Lord Krishna to give enough strength and fight for the right causes.

All the best

 

[RVR]

Kunjuppu ji,

I am able to find weblink for the episode involiving Dr.Kovoor, Dr.Bhagavantham, Sieco and Sai baba.

Indian Skeptic Vol 1 No 11/4

All the best

 

[kunjuppu]

Kunjuppu ji,

I am able to find weblink for the episode involiving Dr.Kovoor, Dr.Bhagavantham, Sieco and Sai baba.

Indian Skeptic Vol 1 No 11/4

All the best

thanks venkat.

personally, i go by the rule of 'live and let live'. in dealings with the complexities of life, i am convinced, that one can never really understand the trials and tribulations of others.

is it not mostly these hard times that bring people to God, god men?
in good times, i think, many folks, maybe we would not forget, but we do not beseech our Creator with desperate appeals for favours. normally, i think.

people like kovoor, periyar, (god bless both their souls!) made it a point to actively preach against organized religion.

it is to kovoor's credit that he took on the powerful catholic church in kerala. periyar, played it safe. he attacked only the brahminic hinduism as practised in tamil nadu. not tamil hinduism.

the first sign, anyone, i think, should watch out, is the appeal for money. when money is the criteria to granting favours, darshans or any such, one should withdraw or i think, hold tight to the purse.

unfortunately, the proof of adherence, to any cult or anti cult, i think, appears to lie in the weight of your money purse. the heavier it is, the more the clout.

we can only hope, that our dear and near, never get caught in the clutches of these (im)moral parasites, for once you are caught, i have discovered, there is no way out.

thank you.

 

[happyhindu]

it is to kovoor's credit that he took on the powerful catholic church in kerala. periyar, played it safe. he attacked only the brahminic hinduism as practised in tamil nadu. not tamil hinduism.

Kunjuppu ji,

EVR did attack hindusim, not just brahmanism alone (garlanding idols with slippers, making his own interpretations of the ramayan, are a few examples. A few other ideas of his, like declaring a soul does not exist, was supposedly influenced by buddhism).

Kovoor is a controversial figure. Anything that involved him, i wud take with a pinch of salt. Me feels Islam and Christianity figured in his books as much as a small footnote would. He mainly attacked hinduism vociferously. He too was influenced by Buddhism. Dr.Abraham Kovoor - The Rationalist of Indian Subcontinent

As regards Satya Sai, there is too much info available both ways. While a section of my mum's family does not regard him as anything spiritual, i myself have seen not one, but two people recovering from cancer due to satya sai's intervension. So its really hard to say which way shd the vote go. i suppose its each to his own belief or experience.

 

[RVR]

Kunjuppu ji,

EVR did attack hindusim, not just brahmanism alone (garlanding idols with slippers, making his own interpretations of the ramayan, are a few examples. A few other ideas of his, like declaring a soul does not exist, was supposedly influenced by buddhism).

Kovoor is a controversial figure. Anything that involved him, i wud take with a pinch of salt. Me feels Islam and Christianity figured in his books as much as a small footnote would. He mainly attacked hinduism vociferously. He too was influenced by Buddhism. Dr.Abraham Kovoor - The Rationalist of Indian Subcontinent

As regards Satya Sai, there is too much info available both ways. While a section of my mum's family does not regard him as anything spiritual, i myself have seen not one, but two people recovering from cancer due to satya sai's intervension. So its really hard to say which way shd the vote go. i suppose its each to his own belief or experience.

Dr Kovoor was going after Godmen than any particular religion. His main aim was exposing fraudulent practices of all Godmen.

He has written an article `Bible is a dangerous moral guide' in his book `Begone Godmen' where he exposes Christianity to the fullest extent.

Some portions are available in the following website

Tarksheel Society Punjab (Regd.): Dr. Abraham T. Kovoor

 

[RVR]

Dear Sri Venkataramani Ji,

I just read this thread. While I also have the same views about the fraudulant Godmen, I need to point out that there are millions of people who are Sri Baba's followers. Like Srimathi HH Ji, I know many people, many very close to me, some of them highly rational, believe in him and his good works. In this realm, I do not think that we can judge this person in toto, just by describing some of his actions as 'black magic'. I understand your inference about what happened during an incident - but we need to be careful not to draw conclusions without hearing all sides.

The bottom line - I am removing all references to Sri Sai Baba from your posts, because I believe that there are a high number of folks from our community who follow him and we do not want to offend their sensibilities. Hope you understand.

I am letting the other 'frauds' to stay in, because I do not have much knowledge about them. But if someone would come forward to establish their validity, we will then act likewise.

Regards,
KRS

While a section of my mum's family does not regard him as anything spiritual, i myself have seen not one, but two people recovering from cancer due to satya sai's intervension. So its really hard to say which way shd the vote go. i suppose its each to his own belief or experience.

Edtd - KRS.

We have to look at all Godmen claiming super natural powers through rationalists glasses.

All the best

 

[happyhindu]

Shri Venkataramani ji,

You do have a point. A lot of ppl were puzzled why cud Satya Sai have not prevented such an attack from happening or why it was not handled differently.

Thanks for the link on tarksheel.org. Will go thru the contents soon. Been sorta tied up of late.

Best regards.

 

[Ramacchandran]

Dear all,

In Vedas there is no quote about Gods, Goddess and Demi Gods!
They only quote about Astrnomy, Herbals, diseases cures and physicians.
Bhirava is a hebal, Varahi is Vrahi, which means Cow headed Sakthi, the Kamadenu, which later turned as Pig headed goddess.
The Herbals that fight with diseases are Devas, the bacterias which create the disease is Asura, blood cell that has a shape of goat, buffallo was killed by the juice of the herbals, and the head of these herbal juices are similor to Tiger and lion.

After going through Vedas I am of the opinion that God is within us., even you who reads this is also a god where the universe is within you.

Even if you visit a temple in the morning just sit under a herbal tree you will be relaxed a lot. If you sit under a canaon ball tree, the nagalinga poo your diabetes will be cured.

 

[anandb]

Kunjuppu ji,

EVR did attack hindusim, not just brahmanism alone (garlanding idols with slippers, making his own interpretations of the ramayan, are a few examples. A few other ideas of his, like declaring a soul does not exist, was supposedly influenced by buddhism).

Kovoor is a controversial figure. Anything that involved him, i wud take with a pinch of salt. Me feels Islam and Christianity figured in his books as much as a small footnote would. He mainly attacked hinduism vociferously. He too was influenced by Buddhism. Dr.Abraham Kovoor - The Rationalist of Indian Subcontinent

As regards Satya Sai, there is too much info available both ways. While a section of my mum's family does not regard him as anything spiritual, i myself have seen not one, but two people recovering from cancer due to satya sai's intervension. So its really hard to say which way shd the vote go. i suppose its each to his own belief or experience.

I can say this about Sathya Sai. I used to think once that he is a fraud and that is because he used to perform miracles which I hated. I think the very miracles that he performed was a reason for a lot of his followers and detractors. But with maturity and coming into contact with a lot of devotees of Sai, my opinion about him began to change. I am not an ardent devotee of Sai as one of the true Sai devotees but I do revere him as one of the gurus. I have once attended the Sai bhajans in the old center in Dubai and you do experience very powerful vibrations. The new center is the home of one of the most wealthiest North Indian families in Dubai where he has specially built a shrine which can seat almost 1000 people. I have not experienced any miracles personally but I do keep a photo of his in my pooja room and there is something extremely magnetic about his eyes even on the photo.

I have come across many Sai devotees and there is nothing abnormal about them. They come from all walks of life and mostly have had some life changing experience from Sai. He counts among his devotees cricketers like Gavaskar and Sachin.

Some other interesting pieces of info. known to almost all his devotees. The Sai incarnations (considered to be an amsa of Shiva) is totally 3 in number. The first was Shirdi Sai Baba who looked like a muslim. The second is Sathya Sai having the look of a Hindu. The third incarnation will be Prema Sai who uncannily looks like Jesus Christ as per a drawing that was released. The three incarnations represent the three major religions striving for unity among the three. Sathya Sai has said that Prema Sai will be born one year after his passing away at the age of 96. I think he is presently 80. This info is all documented in the website so people who term him a fraud can perhaps wait for another 16 years and see if all this is coming true.

 

[anandb]

Dear Venkatramaniji

While a section of my mum's family does not regard him as anything spiritual, i myself have seen not one, but two people recovering from cancer due to satya sai's intervension. So its really hard to say which way shd the vote go. i suppose its each to his own belief or experience.

Edtd - KRS

We have to look at all Godmen claiming super natural powers through rationalists glasses.

All the best

I can understand you are harping on this point. I just have this to state.

Firstly, I don't know if this information is true. Even assuming it is true, I can say "inscrutable are the ways of god". We see things black and white. All I can say there is a version that Shri Rama hid behind a tree to kill Vali and Shri. Krishna had to resort to adharmic means in the Kurukshetra war, in spite of them being the avatars of Vishnu. Looks like even god donning a human form has to sometimes undergo the trials and tribulations of a human.

 

[pannvalan]

I wish to narrate two anecdotes from Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa's biography.

1. Once without even asking for them many supernatural powers started coming to
Sri Ramakrishna. Noticing this, he ran straight to Kali Devi and started crying.
"Oh, when did I ask you all these? For heaven's sake, please take back all these
powers, as I do not want them. Give me, only your remembrance always".

2. Once a man came to Sri Ramakrishna and boasted that he knew the art of
walking on the surface of water and could cross the river Ganges (from one bank
to the other) within 15 minutes. On hearing this, Sri Ramakrishna simply laughed.
He said: "You have wasted three fourths of your precious life in learning this art.
If you give a few annas, the boatman will take you to the other shore. Instead
of wasting your time on learning this art, had you spent your time usefully by
thinking about the God, you would have gone much nearer to the God, by this
time".

 

[G. Soundara Rajan]

Namassadhaae.

I have an aversion to the subject of godmen like Sai Baba, Kalki, Bangaru, Premananda etc. Persons like Paramacharya, Ramana Mahirishi, Ramakrishna etc lived the life of a common man, even with physical ailments. Ramana Mahirishi had even canceric type of illness. .

One person came to Ramakrishna Paramahamsar one day. He claimed that he had attained the power of walking on water. He proved that he had that special power. Paramahamsar commented that he had wasted his life in learning this and if he paid a meagre amount, the boat man would have taken him across comfortably and his achievement deserved only that much. Siddhis are like malam (stools). When there is intake, this outflow in the form of some siddhi like vibhoothi, lingam etc. will come. No importance need to be given.

At the first instance, I am a Thiruppugazh anbar and none other than Lord Swaminatha Guru in Swamimalai can be my guru. Black Magic, mesmeric are the words come to my mind, when I think of the godmen referred above

I live in Mylapore and there is a Sai Baba temple here. All days poor feeding is there. On Thursdays, lot of beggers gather and begging is their permanent livelihood. The anomoly in this issue is the persons who give money/materials to them are the real beggers and the professional beggers lead a very luxury living and they even lend money, for interest. Dharmam made only to genuine persons at right time will take you somewhere good. Giving to wrong persons will work wrong.
I think only in desperate circumstances, most of the devotees to this lot fall prey to these wrong persons and without their knowledge, encourage bad elements.


"அவரவர் இச்சையில் எவை எவை உற்றவை அவை தருவித்தருள் பெருமாளே!"
_ திருவக்கரை திருப்புகழ்

 

[vijisesh]

Dear RV ji , Pls do not let your emotions rise on such accounts.
Even a kid today gets into youtube and watches the videos there .
So many videos about godmen , GOD really should help in guiding us to make a decision on what to believe and what not !
But the four steps preached since childhood is often forgotten !!!
Matha , Pitha , Guru , Deivam ...
I heard it reads something like -- you need the Matha to tell you who the pitha is ..
Then The Pitha is the bread winner of the family and he helps in bringing the Guru on to the life of a child ( school ) and the Guru shows the way to reach the almighty GOD!
But offlate , why does it STOP with a GURU and why don't people differentiate between a Human and GOD ?? is a million dollar question that remains unanswered !

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Venkataramani Ji,

I have restored the original BBC story and the YouTube video posted by you at the start of this thread. But, please be aware that BBC is not always correct and sometimes have an agenda of 'secularism' and takes every opportunity to attack Hinduism, in my opinion. As recently as three years ago, they ran an article attacking the Kanchi Matham and Maha Periaval as well as Periaval. They had to withdraw the scurrilous article on the face of legal action by a small group of devotees.

I have requested before that you consider the impact of a similar posting on a different thread to the unity of our community and you very promptly responded by removing the said thread, which I appreciated.

I am going to request the same from you again. Please consider the sentiments of countless folks in our community for whom Sri Sai Baba is a Guru. Let us give proper credence to their sentiments and not involve Sri Sai Baba in the discussions of this thread. There are enough other examples.

Given that you are a very valuable member of this Forum, I will leave it up to your discretion whether to delete the references to the BBC and YouTube stories mainly on the basis of hurting others' sentiments.

Thank you for your understanding.

Regards,
KRS

 

[Nara]

If there was any mocking it was certainly not against any god-man revered by many or any. It is clear that not just the devotees get the protection of red ink.

Peace to the devotees!

 

[KRS]

Since you chose to delete out my editing of your previous post here, for the benefit of our members let me explain what happened.

You chose to copy a selective sentence from Srimathi HH Ji's post and 'moderate' a part of her sentence by deleting the name of Sri Sai Baba, in a mocking way about the moderation.

Next you posted a story about a car that was named Sai and again posted a mocking comment about Sri Sai Baba.

In between you actually posted your thoughts about fake Swamis which made sense and I left it without editing.

Now you have chosen to remove it and instead made the following comment.

If the moderation in this Forum does not protect against hurting the sentiments of a large group of folks and at the same time allow for free speech, you would have been kicked out of here long time ago.

Peace!

Regards,
KRS

If there was any mocking it was certainly not against any god-man revered by many or any. It is clear that not just the devotees get the protection of red ink.

Peace to the devotees!

 

[drsundaram]

very shockening RV sir, Could such things on so much trusted Godly person be true. I am confused much . Kind regards