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Smartas, Are we Shaivaites/Shaktas in disguise?

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raga.iyer

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Smartism is actually Shaivism/Shaktism in disguise."

I can also say that most Smarthas are Shaivaites/Shaktas in disguise. I say this not because we adorn our bodies and foreheads with vibhuti (I'll come to that later) but because:

(1) Most of us worship Shiva/Shakti as our main deity (Kula-devatham to be more precise). Only a fraction of Smarthas have Sri Hari Vishnu as their kula-devatham.

(2) The presiding deity of the Shankara mutts is Shiva as Chandramouleeshwarar/Sharada instead of Sri Hari Vishnu or perhaps both.
(3) We adorn our bodies and foreheads with vibhuti including the Acharyas as opposed to Gopi Chandanam. Even on Ekadasi, Bahula Panchami, Sri Ram Navami and Janmashtami, it is vibhuti. Again only the Bhagavathas and followers of Hari-Nama Samkeertana who use Gopi chandanam.

(4) All the Smartha temples have Shiva/Shakti as their presiding deity. With the exception of Sankaranarayana temple and temples within Bhajana Mandals.

(5) Very few Smarthas worship Sri Hari Vishnu or his many aspects as their Ishta-devatha.

(6) Shankaracharya chose to present Advaita philosophy through Dakshinamurthy stotra and not Sri Hari Vishnu/Krishna/Rama stotra.

Also in most Smartha Families, the Ishta-Devatha is normally Shiva/Shakti. Woe betide the person who choses Sri Hari Vishnu for he's literally condemned and ex-communicated. I speak from personal experience.
My Ishta-devatha is Lord Rama. Actually in my heart I worship him as my Kula-devatha and much more (Sri Thyagaraja is my Manaseeka-Guru). I say Ishta as opposed to my Kula Swaminatha Swamy. My devotion towards Sri Hari caused quite an uproar in the family who inspite of allegiance to the Shanmatha system condemned my bhakti. Also my great grandfathers were hardcore Smartha-Shaivaites for whom the very name "Narayana/Vishnu" was anathema. This is also the case in most Smartha Families. To me Sriman Narayana is Swayam Bhagavan. Having said that I bear no ill will to Lord Shiva/Devi. As a Bhagavatha, I worship Lord Shiva as an aspect of Sri Hari.
So pray tell me, What Shanmatham are we talking about? Why is the Smartha Sampradaya pre-dominantly Shaivite/Shakta
 
Hari Hara Sudanay Sharanam Ayyappa.Both Shiva & Vishnu amalgamated as Ayyappan.Smartas worship,Vishnu,Siva,Devi,Ganapathi,Skanda...at least i do.When Brahman is Sagunan,there is myriad incarnation.Smartas are really Smart Ass!!:)

sb
 
sb

this is another warning to you. you are not supposed to use these kind of words in this forum. please maintain the integrity in this thread.

bI
 
BI,its just a slang,nothing derogatory about Smartas.But if it has offended some souls,i apologise for the hurt.I myself am,a smartha..so like Khuswant Singh who jokes about sardars, i joked about my identity..plz do not make an issue out of trivial things..grow up young man.

sb

P.S. In my entire message,you found only the slang of importance,and warned me.Shows your concentration is where!!!Just an observation.
 
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sb, in a white sheet of paper, a black dot, however small is the first noticed... of course, you would know this...

banter apart, i believe that there are serious folks out there who have genuine queries... i understand that you are a gnyani of the highest order, but for mere social community creatures like me, it would seem that such replies do not essentially convey any answer (at my level).

no same method can be used always all the times...

:)

regards
 
S S

When the message is as such,i wonder how many impostors posing as Tamil Brahmins,using various monikers are here.Usually i detect or if a red flag raises,i check it out.But in the process,i subject myself to ridicule,is a risk.But then i am always a risk taker,and i am willing to take such a risk.Just read the content and try to be suspicious of it,then you will understand,my predicament.Maybe i am over reacting with DK people hanging around here,but no harm in checking it out.

sb
 
sb, yes that is a possibility - i had not thought about it. but this being an online forum, we can never check that out through counter posts... rather, it would be no harm if a genuine answer is given.... by joining as online members of a public forum, we are expressing ourselves in public... and everything may not be rosy...

you would have noticed, that even brahmins speak of atheism (me for one)... but it does not make me an atheist... similarly, there are many posts in the forum, which have put forth the obsoleteness of many customs... does that mean that they are imposters? possibly... but why bother...

we will present our answer in such a way that it adresses the queries but does not downplay us... and if the topic is expressly seen as the handiwork of imposters, i believe the moderators would step in...

after all, we are only human
 
Smart from Smartas

I recall the words of Chanakya:

Vidvat vancha Nripat vancha Naiva Toolya Kadachana
Swadeshey Poojyatey Raja
Vidvan Sarvatra Poojyate



sb
 
Raga Iyer,

I have never heard of a smartha to whom the name vishnu is anthema. Smarthas accept all 6 dieties. Sri-N can explain this. May i also request you to present your doubts in a manner that does not result in discomfort. Words such as excommunicating and condeming are very avoidable.
 
raga.iyer

In olden days every brahmins( vishnu bhaktas too ) performed fire -ritual daily and the basmam they applied to their body as ishvara prasada.

basma tharanam is the natural order of those days, be him of any sect.

ONLY basma tharanam has validity in pramana shastra, so says erudite scholars.
......

Namathai satthittu poiyttannu solluvale - kelvi pattu irukkelo?

Regards
 
External differences such as what clothes one wears, what one applies on oneself as gopichandanam or vibuti, etc, are merely external. Everyone cannot be the same color, height, weight, like clones. Personal customs of every faith cannot be universalized. But every form of faith has a universal feel and understanding to it called 'truth'. Truth in all forms are valid. No necessity to see any diff b/w smartha or non-smartha in any form.
 
The post is done in anguish. I am able to understand that.

I will try to answer your questions in two parts.

1. The history and evolution of the Smarta religion.

2. Why do your people react the way they do?

The Smarta religion was an attempt by the Hindus to find unity free from sectarian conflicts. The founding principle of Sakta religion is that all Gods and Goddesses are equal. They even included village deities in that. There is no single GOD.

They were quite successful in uniting Hindu religion. This principle of all Gods and Goddesses being equal is accepted by the majority of the Hindus.

To distinguish themselves from the other sects they gave themselves the name Smarta or the believer in Smiritis. Actually this is a misnomer since all Hindus including those belonging to other sects believe in Smiritis. This label has stuck to Smarta in South India whereas it has disappeared in the rest of India. The south Indian Smartas also brought in Adi Sankaracharya and the four matts he established into the picture and attributed the creation of Shanmadham to him. The concept of shanmadham is restricted to Tamil Nadu.

Though the name Smarta is not there, most of the Brahmins in Bengal, Kerala, Maharashtra, U.P Bihar and other states believe in this eclectic Hinduism which believes that all Gods/Goddesses are equal. It is true of all other castes. The overwhelming majority of the Hindus do not believe in the conception of one GOD.

Similar to your complaint Samrtas have been criticized by the Saivas for being Vaishnavites.

The reasons adduced are

1. The Smarta Sandhyavandanam has more names of Vishnu than Siva.

2. Smartas recite Vishnu Sahasranamam. Some of them may recite Lalita Sahasranamam. But they rarely if ever recite Shiva Sahasranamam.

3. The last verse at the end of any puja attributes it to Narayana. Kayenavacha .... Narayanayethi samarpayami.

4. Smartas have Namdhari Iyers who sport Trichurnam.

5. Smartas have as their kuladeivam Venkatachalapathy, Guruvayurappan and other forms of Vishnu. This is especially true of Tamil Brahmins of Kerala.

I can go on.

I am only trying to show how the Smartas are viewed by the Saivites. I do not think there are explanations to all the smarta practices. It is more of tradition.

2. The answer to your question lies in what you have stated

To me Sriman Narayana is Swayam Bhagavan. Having said that I bear no ill will to Lord Shiva/Devi. As a Bhagavatha, I worship Lord Shiva as an aspect of Sri Hari.
Click to expand...
This indicates that you have given up the basic tenet of Smartas that all Gods and Goddesses are equal. That is reason for the reaction of your people. Smartas worship Vishnu/Naryana/Krishna/Balaji and all forms of Vishnu. But Then they worship also all forms of Shiva and Devi. In fact they worship all Gods/Goddesses. They are all equal and forms of the supreme God.

This is not a forum for discussing these issues. This post is only to make you understand the reaction of your people.

Note to members. This post is only to address the anguish of the member. This is not to start a discussion on the different sects.
 
Nacchinarkiniyan said:
The post is done in anguish. I am able to understand that.

I will try to answer your questions in two parts.

1. The history and evolution of the Smarta religion.

2. Why do your people react the way they do?

The Smarta religion was an attempt by the Hindus to find unity free from sectarian conflicts. The founding principle of Sakta religion is that all Gods and Goddesses are equal. They even included village deities in that. There is no single GOD.

They were quite successful in uniting Hindu religion. This principle of all Gods and Goddesses being equal is accepted by the majority of the Hindus.

To distinguish themselves from the other sects they gave themselves the name Smarta or the believer in Smiritis. Actually this is a misnomer since all Hindus including those belonging to other sects believe in Smiritis. This label has stuck to Smarta in South India whereas it has disappeared in the rest of India. The south Indian Smartas also brought in Adi Sankaracharya and the four matts he established into the picture and attributed the creation of Shanmadham to him. The concept of shanmadham is restricted to Tamil Nadu.

Though the name Smarta is not there, most of the Brahmins in Bengal, Kerala, Maharashtra, U.P Bihar and other states believe in this eclectic Hinduism which believes that all Gods/Goddesses are equal. It is true of all other castes. The overwhelming majority of the Hindus do not believe in the conception of one GOD.

Similar to your complaint Samrtas have been criticized by the Saivas for being Vaishnavites.

The reasons adduced are

1. The Smarta Sandhyavandanam has more names of Vishnu than Siva.

2. Smartas recite Vishnu Sahasranamam. Some of them may recite Lalita Sahasranamam. But they rarely if ever recite Shiva Sahasranamam.

3. The last verse at the end of any puja attributes it to Narayana. Kayenavacha .... Narayanayethi samarpayami.

4. Smartas have Namdhari Iyers who sport Trichurnam.

5. Smartas have as their kuladeivam Venkatachalapathy, Guruvayurappan and other forms of Vishnu. This is especially true of Tamil Brahmins of Kerala.

I can go on.

I am only trying to show how the Smartas are viewed by the Saivites. I do not think there are explanations to all the smarta practices. It is more of tradition.

2. The answer to your question lies in what you have stated

This indicates that you have given up the basic tenet of Smartas that all Gods and Goddesses are equal. That is reason for the reaction of your people. Smartas worship Vishnu/Naryana/Krishna/Balaji and all forms of Vishnu. But Then they worship also all forms of Shiva and Devi. In fact they worship all Gods/Goddesses. They are all equal and forms of the supreme God.

This is not a forum for discussing these issues. This post is only to make you understand the reaction of your people.

Note to members. This post is only to address the anguish of the member. This is not to start a discussion on the different sects.
Click to expand...

hi all
myself and seshadri sunbramnyam / may be some others are smarthas.
wearing srichuranam...kula divam sri vishnu/ srinivasa perumal..following
vadamal /smartha samprdayams....so we called..
anthah sakthah bahih saivaha vyvahare ca vaishnavah..........it does
not we have separate identity.......so all smarathas are not the
saiva/saktha upasakas..........but we are not against it....so we are
called namakkara smarthas....for your info. we say in sankalapam..
sri mahavishnu preethyathartham... just for info...

regards
tbs
 
Again on the subject. People especially Tamil Brahmins do not like their children to do anything which is a change from the past what they call family tradition. Even when a son/daughter is devout, they do not like them worshiping Deities different from what they worship.

Like an worshiper of Shiva does not like his son to worship Bhairava. A Lalita worshiper does not like his children to worship Durga. I have seen Vaishnavites who are unhappy when their children take to the Hare Krishnas. Narayana and not Krishna they say.

Again the sects can also be very rigid. I saw in one of the Krishna forums a member write "When Krishna is there why are they worshipping other Gods? " He did not mean Siva or Devi. He meant Vishnu and Narayana.

So continue in the path that you have chosen. HE has led you to that path. But do respect the feeling of others especially elders in the family and do not downplay their Gods or devotion.
 
Perhaps such things happen when people look for a reason for devotion confounded by the externalities of life in the without, rather than making an attempt to address the within. Sri-N-ji has perfectly summed it up in the last para. It is He, that leads us there. But it does not mean He, is any diff from the other. All Gods are same, of the One. Whether one says Aum, Amen or Ameen it all comes from the same and refers to the same in their own ways.
 
Why tomuch heated exchanges. One thing we all follows right or wrong according to their family method. Our So called GURU failed to tell us about the origional way of living as per the scriptures written. If any one wishes to follow let them folloe.Becaus every TB is intelegent. so start useful ideas for upliftment of TB and there welfare. I request to read ******* latest issue and discuss about that. You can get who is Smrtha.
 
Gopi Chandanam

tbs

Most accurate message.Short and sweet.I also sport Gopi Chandanam as a Smaartha,with our Kula Deivam Shriman Venkatachalapathi of Tirupathi Malai.Yeazhu Kundalavada Govinda Govinda.

sb
 
Bhaja Govindam

Shri Raga.Iyer

>>Shankaracharya chose to present Advaita philosophy through Dakshinamurthy stotra and not Sri Hari Vishnu/Krishna/Rama stotra.<<

Please go thru Shankara Bhagavth Pada's exposition of Bhaja Govindam,don't you think Govinda worship is Lord Vishnu here!Or is it Lord Dakshinamoorthy here?

Worship Govinda, worship Govinda, worship Govinda, Oh fool ! Other than chanting the Lord's names, there is no other way to cross the life's ocean.

http://www.shankaracharya.org/bhaja_govindam.php

sb
 
God is Anami.

Itis Govinda or Siva, the position is like this, Moolatharam Ganapathi, Manipuragam Vishnu(along with Brahma),Azgna Siva and other forms as Sadasivan,URUthiran. All the names is not going to help to cross the life's ocean,because this Varnathmic names wont help aDunathmic Name is there called ANAGATHNATHAM witch rings every one all the 24 hrs, 30days, 12months. Once understand about this sound current and day to day practise of Meditation.understand the God not by names but without any name and colour,because is Supreme and Annami.He is Athma,So Pasu and pathi. The five holy names.Our body can get clean taking both in Holy rivers,but how to clean the mind, it require Meditation. That is expl by Dakshinamoothy thathuvam. Silent. Ramana Magaresi upatheesam.
 
raga.iyer said:
Smartism is actually Shaivism/Shaktism in disguise."

I can also say that most Smarthas are Shaivaites/Shaktas in disguise. I say this not because we adorn our bodies and foreheads with vibhuti (I'll come to that later) but because:

(1) Most of us worship Shiva/Shakti as our main deity (Kula-devatham to be more precise). Only a fraction of Smarthas have Sri Hari Vishnu as their kula-devatham.

(2) The presiding deity of the Shankara mutts is Shiva as Chandramouleeshwarar/Sharada instead of Sri Hari Vishnu or perhaps both.
(3) We adorn our bodies and foreheads with vibhuti including the Acharyas as opposed to Gopi Chandanam. Even on Ekadasi, Bahula Panchami, Sri Ram Navami and Janmashtami, it is vibhuti. Again only the Bhagavathas and followers of Hari-Nama Samkeertana who use Gopi chandanam.

(4) All the Smartha temples have Shiva/Shakti as their presiding deity. With the exception of Sankaranarayana temple and temples within Bhajana Mandals.

(5) Very few Smarthas worship Sri Hari Vishnu or his many aspects as their Ishta-devatha.

(6) Shankaracharya chose to present Advaita philosophy through Dakshinamurthy stotra and not Sri Hari Vishnu/Krishna/Rama stotra.

Also in most Smartha Families, the Ishta-Devatha is normally Shiva/Shakti. Woe betide the person who choses Sri Hari Vishnu for he's literally condemned and ex-communicated. I speak from personal experience.
My Ishta-devatha is Lord Rama. Actually in my heart I worship him as my Kula-devatha and much more (Sri Thyagaraja is my Manaseeka-Guru). I say Ishta as opposed to my Kula Swaminatha Swamy. My devotion towards Sri Hari caused quite an uproar in the family who inspite of allegiance to the Shanmatha system condemned my bhakti. Also my great grandfathers were hardcore Smartha-Shaivaites for whom the very name "Narayana/Vishnu" was anathema. This is also the case in most Smartha Families. To me Sriman Narayana is Swayam Bhagavan. Having said that I bear no ill will to Lord Shiva/Devi. As a Bhagavatha, I worship Lord Shiva as an aspect of Sri Hari.
So pray tell me, What Shanmatham are we talking about? Why is the Smartha Sampradaya pre-dominantly Shaivite/Shakta
Click to expand...
Iam surprised at you relations' opposition.Even in Shankara mutt they only worship in panchayatana mode with the central deity as Chandramoulishvara and Mahatripurasundari.Even all smarthas are ordainde to do panchayatana worship at home keeping yopur ishtadevatha as the central murthy which is permissible
 
Tamizh Gyaana Pazham

M M

>>Namathai satthittu poiyttannu solluvale - kelvi pattu irukkelo?<<

Engo oye poitteer neer?Vaarum Ayya.Gyanam Pazham Allava Neer?

sb
 
smartas are those that live by the credo ..

antharmukascha shakthah -- motherly at heart
bahirmukascha saivah --- simple and not attched to luxury
vyavaraestu vaishnavah -- playing fully well in the field of life without attchmt
 
re

vivekam.vairagyam said:
smartas are those that live by the credo ..

antharmukascha shakthah -- motherly at heart
bahirmukascha saivah --- simple and not attched to luxury
vyavaraestu vaishnavah -- playing fully well in the field of life without attchmt
Click to expand...

V V

Ain't it sweet,smartas are the smart-est people..hip hip hurray!:lalala:
:ranger: sb :love:
 
in continuation of the earlier reply , ...

smartas are those that do things according to the smriti just as those who do things according to the shruthi become shrouthis .....

essentially there is no distinction between saiva/shaktha/vaishnava ..... depending how u live u r either a smarta or not one ...

...the smriti being secondary to the shruthi is also less demanding about austerities ... so smarta practices are "lagu" in comparison and as well ...

.....the practice of shruthi's instructions are demanding and pratya vaya ( subject to strict repurcussions of ommission and commission ) ...


smarta sampradaya gives the general population some laxity in those respects ....


vaishnavas/sakthas/saivas are all smartas ...
 
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