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Siddhar padalgal

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OP
OP
DURGADASAN
Kudhambai siddhar

"Kudhambai" is a type of ornament wear by girls. Since, this siddhar wear this ornament in his childhood and on seeing him with that makes his mother feel very happy, his original name vanished and his name itself turned as "kudhambai" sidhar. Also, in other school, it is said that, in all his verses he ends with the word "kudhmabaai" (meaning a person wearing Kudhambai) and hence the name stands. But his original name is certainly not that which siddhar people dont care at all also. It has been said that this siddhar has lived in the regions of Mayiladuthurai-kumbakonam. It has been said that he is the disciple of Alukani siddhar, who is the disciple of famous "IDAIKADAR". Kudhambai siddhar attained his samadhi in Mayiladuthurai.

In the successive posts we will start sharing his songs...

Pranams
 

N.R.Ranganathan

Active member
Siddhar paadalgal

Dear sirs:

Some of the compositions of the Siddhars are very difficult to
understand . Has anyone got the full text with meaning of Siddhars'
songs ? I would be grateful if someone can guide me. Thanks.

N.R.Ranganathan.
 
OP
OP
DURGADASAN
Dear NRR

I think the siddhars themselves have to provide us some "thelivurai, padavurai, pozhipurai" etc., as you said whenever you read the verses, you will get different meanings from them. I think we ourself has to eat them and then chew and masticate them to find the originality with the grace of siddhars. Apart from them, the meanings provide by anyone else will be like a person crossing a small channel and saying that he has measured the whole ocean with its length and breadth...

Pranams
 
OP
OP
DURGADASAN
1.
வெட்ட வெளிதன்னை மெய்யென்று இருப்போர்க்குப்
பட்டயம் ஏதுக்கடி- குதம்பாய்
பட்டயம் ஏதுக்கடி?

2. மெய்ப்பொருள் கண்டு விளங்கும் மெய்ஞானிக்கு
கற்பங்கள் ஏதுக்கடி- குதம்பாய்
கற்பங்கள் ஏதுக்கடி

1. The real siddhar people never needs any sort of advertisement. Infact they lead a life isolated from normal humanbeings. In this context, the kudhambai siddhar is referring, when the true siddha has got the knowledge of Parabrahma, then what will be the use of an certificate provided by normal humans??? He has surrendered and joined with the supreme god, then a normal advertisement is of nouse to him.

2. When the siddhar has identified the god himself, what will be the use of KARPAS to him. "Karpas" are tablets provided by siddha to the medical world. The famous "Kayakarpa" is known to everybody. Dont confuse the karpa with "Karpa-Yuga-age of earth". Usually these karpa tablets are used to keep the body young without any disease. It was discovered by siddhar people only. But for whom??? It is certaainly not for them. Thats what siddhar is telling. The use of "karpa kulikas" is of noway to help a true siddha.

Pranams
 
OP
OP
DURGADASAN
காணாமற் கண்டு கருத்தோடிருப்பவர்க்கு
வீணாசை ஏதுக்கடி- குதம்பாய்
வீணாசை ஏதுக்கடி

வஞ்சகம் அற்று வழிதன்னை கண்டோர்க்கு
சஞ்சலம் ஏதுக்கடி- குதம்பாய்
சஞ்சலம் ஏதுக்கடி

3. The real siddhar who has seen the god within himself and also always residing in that samadhi state itself, does not need any things to fulfill. He can do whatever he thinks. But he has crossed all the desires and is beyond the limits of desires. Siddhar here clearly states that there is even no use of getting desire when already the person is residing in "PARAMANANDA".

4. The siddhar who finds the way which curtail all sorts of sins, does not have any mental disturbances. He has conquered his mind already. And he is going in the path of god, he has even seen god within himself and also seeing the same in other beings also. Hence, his mind never gets worried at any circumstances as that always reside in "PARAMANANDA"
 

N.R.Ranganathan

Active member
Siddhar paadalgal

Dear Sri Durgadasan,

I enjoyed your posts on this topic.

I have deleted my tamil font murasu anjal since it has affected
the speed of my PC. Hence I am posting in english. Forgive me.

Azhugani Siddhar :

vaazhaippazham thinraal vaainogu menru solli
thaazhaipazham thinru saavenaku vandadadi
thaazhaipazhaththai vittu saagaamar saagavallo
vaazhaippazham thinraal en kannamma
vaazhvenakku vaaaraadho

muthumagappadiyo muchchandhi veediyile
paththaam idazh parappi panchanaiyin meliruthi
athai adakki nilai aarumillaa velaiile
kuthu vilakkerri en kannamma
kolamittu paareno.

moolap pathiyadiyo moovirandu veedathile
kolap pathiyadiyo kutharkkan theru naduve
saalap pathi thanile thanalaaai valartha kambam
melap pathi thanile en kannamma
vilaiyaattaip paareno.

Like these there are many poems by various siddhars whose
meaning is very difficult to grasp. Thats why I am looking for
the correct meaning of these from scholors like you. Are there
any books ? Can u kindly help ? Thanks.
 
Namassadhasae.

Some information about the 18 siddhars and specially on pambatti sidhdhar, some connected information about these siddhars are given below. Hope this could be of interest to some of the forum members pls.

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About Siddhar's (Siddha's)
Who is a siddha ? A siddha is one who has attained siddhi, i.e. "power, prowess, strength, ability", then
a special kind of psychic and supernatural, miraculous, occult power. There are eight kinds of super
natural powers called as "Ashtama Siddhis":
1. Anima (shrinking) -- Power of becoming the size of an atom and entering the smallest
beings.
2. Mahima (illimitability) -- Power of becoming mighty and co-extensive with the universe. The
power of increasing one's size without limit.
3. Lagima (lightness) -- Capacity to be quite light though big in size.
4. Garima (weight) -- Capacity to weigh heavy, though seemingly small size.
5. Prapthi (fulfillment of desires) -- Capacity to enter all the worlds from Brahma Loga to the
neither world. It is the power of attaining everything desired.
6. Prakasysm (irresistible will) -- Power of disembodying and entering into other bodies
(metempsychosis) and going to heaven and enjoying what everyone aspires for, simply from
where he stays.
7. Isithavam (supremacy) -- Have the creative power of God and control over the Sun, the
moon and the elements and
8. Vasithavam (dominion over the elements) -- Power of control over King and Gods. The
power of changing the course of nature and assuming any form.
According to the book "Valmiki Suthira Gyanam" authored by Siddhar Valmiki, "By purifying the mind
and attaining perfection one becomes a siddha (Tamil Chittan); He is indeed fit to be called SIVA".
A classical definition of siddhas is given by Siddhar Thirumoolar: "Those who live in yoga and see the
divine light and power through yoga are the siddhars (Tamil Chittar)".
According to Kamil Zvelebil, there are some features which are typical for all or almost all siddhars as
a body of thinkers.
 First, in sharp opposition to the bhakti tradition, they refuse to allow themselves be carried
away by idol worship in particular temples.
 Second, in contrast to bhakti which emphasizes passionate devotion to God, the siddhar
emphasize knowledge, yoga practice, and character, moral behavior, right conduct. Anger, lust
and egoism are the worst sins.
 Third, almost all siddhar's raise a protest against caste and casteism.
The whole atmosphere of siddha thinking is empirical and experimental. Their writings are not in the
nature of clear cut formalized statements of any well defined doctrine. Hence, it is difficult to extricate a
philosophical system out of their writings, at least at the present state of our knowledge of their works.
However, it is possible to point out a few essential features, and one day, when their writings are better
known, it should be possible to state their philosophy more explicitly.
This web site is devoted to publishing the works of siddhars for the internet community. Most of the
works are available only in Tamil and it is possible that the author of document interprets things in his
own way while translating the original text. An attempt is made to present information about siddhars
here.
References
1. Chapter Eighteen (Pages 364 & 365) of book entitled "Eighteen Siddhars in History of Siddha
Medicine" by Mr. N. Kandasamy Pillai, Former Member, Siddha Science Development
Committee and Published by the Government of Tamil Nadu in 1979.
2. Chapter Fourteen (Pages 224 & 225) of book entitled "The Smile of Murugan of Tamil
Literature of South India" by Kamil Zvelebil and Published by E.J. Brill, Leiden, Netherlands in
1973 (ISBN 90 04 03591 5).
3. Song 1490 of "Thirumandiram Moovayiram" by Siddhar Thirumoolar.
The 18 Siddhars
There are 18 siddhars in the tamil siddha tradition. Each of the siddhars had lived in varied places
under different names. The following are most common names of the 18 siddhars. They are listed in
the order of their time period.
1. Sri Pathanjali Siddhar
2. Sri Agasthiar Siddhar
3. Sri Kamalamuni Siddhar
4. Sri Thirumoolar Siddhar
5. Sri Kuthambai Siddhar
6. Sri Korakkar Siddhar
7. Sri Thanvandri Siddhar
8. Sri Sundaranandar Siddhar
9. Sri Konganar Siddhar
10. Sri Sattamuni Siddhar
11. Sri Vanmeegar Siddhar
12. Sri Ramadevar Siddhar
13. Sri Nandeeswarar Siddhar
14. Sri Edaikkadar Siddhar
15. Sri Machamuni Siddhar
16. Sri Karuvoorar Siddhar
17. Sri Bogar Siddhar
18. Sri Pambatti Siddhar
The Other Siddhars
Apart from the 18 siddhars given above, there are also other siddhars. It is possible that the siddhars
given below are the same siddhars (the 18 siddhars), but under different name. They might also be the
disciples of the siddhars, who by the process 'Transmigration of Souls' became the one and same as
the Guru himself. Only a true Siddha Yogi shall do any classification with full confidence.
1. Sivavakkiyar
2. Pattinattar
3. (List to be expanded later)
Table of 18 Siddhars
Sl.
No
Name of the
Siddhar
Tamil
month of
Birth
Tamil Birth
Star
Duration of
Life Place of Samadhi
1 Sri Pathanjali Panguni Moolam 5 Yugas 7
Days Rameswaram
2 Sri Agasthiar Markazhi Aayilyam 4 Yugas 48
Days Thiruvananthapuram
3 Sri Kamalamuni Vaikasi Poosam 4000 Years
48 Days Thiruvarur
4 Sri Thirumoolar Purattathi Avittam 3000 Years
13 Days Chidambaram
5 Sri Kuthambai Aadi Visagam 1800 Years
16 Days Mayavaram
6 Sri Korakkar Karthigai Aayilyam 880 Years
11 Days Perur
7 Sri Thanvandri Iyppasi Punarpoosam 800 Years
32 Days Vaideeswarankoil
8 Sri
Sundaranandar Aavani Revathi 800 Years
28 Days Madurai
9 Sri Konganar Chitthirai Utthiradam 800 Years
16 Days Titupathi
10 Sri Sattamuni Aavani Mrigasirisham 800 Years
14 Days Thiruvarangam
11
Sri
Vaanmeegar /
Valmiki
Purattasi Anusham 700 Years
32 Days Ettukudi
12 Sri Ramadevar Masi Pooram 700 Years
06 Days Azhagarmalai
13 Sri
Nandeeswarar Vaikasi Visagam 700 Years
03 Days Kasi
14 Sri Edaikkadar Purattasi Thiruvadirai 600 Years
18 Days Tiruvannamalai
15 Sri Machamuni Aadi Rohini 300 Years
62 Days Thiruparankundram
16 Sri Karuvoorar Chitthirai Hastham 300 Years
42 Days Karuvur
17 Sri Bogar Vaikasi Bharani 300 Years
18 Days Pazhani
18 Sri Pambatti Karthigai Mrigasirisham 123 Years
14 Days Sankarankoil
Sri Pambatti Siddhar
A Crisp Note on Sri Pambatti Siddhar
The most popular and well known of the siddhar’s is "Pambatti Siddhar" (the snake character) who
may be taken to be a true representation of his tribe. He takes the snake for a symbol to represent the
human Soul and uses the expression : "AODU PAMBE" (De thou, Dance Snake) as a refrain at the
end of each stanza of his poem. The poem of this siddhar is in fewer than six hundred lines and deals
with philosophic and spiritual matters in the authentic siddhar pattern with great passion. He sings Lord
Siva as the Supreme Power of the Universe. There is a poem on his Guru, Who is credited with super
natural powers. He then boasts of the similar powers of his tribe in a mood of fantastic self-adulation,
where his imagination runs riot. "We can make men women", he says and adds, "We can destroy" this
great universe. He asserts that they have power equal to that of God and can control the elements. He
is there, merely expatiating on the Ashtama Siddhis, which is believed to confer eight kinds of devises
and super natural powers on those who have achieved it. They are
1. Anima -- Power of becoming the size of an atom and entering
the smallest beings.
2. Mahima -- Power of becoming mighty and co-extensive with
the universe.
3. Lagima -- Capacity to be quite light though big in size.
4. Garima -- Capacity to weigh heavy, though seemingly small
size.
5. Prapthi -- Capacity to enter all the worlds from Brahma Loga
to the neither world.
6. Prakasysm -- Power of disembodying and entering into other
bodies (metempsychosis) and going to heaven and enjoying
what everyone aspires for, simply from where he stays.
7. Isithavam -- Have the creative power of God and control over
the Sun, the moon and the elements and
8. Vasithavam -- Power of control over King and Gods.
Whether any man ever had or can have these powers is an open question.
He then bursts out that they, like Prahima can create new worlds, make him his servants and live in a
status of equality with Lord Siva and make Him play with them. Then there is usual tired against this
life and its short lived sensual pleasure. The value of reminciation and sacation is also dealt with. He
ridicules ideal worship and the Vedas. Agomas and other Scriptures. The cast differences are
denounced by him. He has also several stanzas on mystic knowledge of Yoga.
As a poet, he is not contemptible (deserving to be treated with contempt). He has a facility of
expression and an imaginative flavour in thought. He holds that those who have no feeling of love in
their hearts can never attain salvation. His God vision is pictured in a fine stanza. This poet uses
entirely the common speech of the people and has produced powerful effect.
Each one of the stanzas of his work ends in the world "Aodu Pambe". Probably that may be the cause
of his name. He seems to belong to Maruthamalai in Kongunadu. It is given in the work above that he
got instructions from Sattamuni. As per the lines "Pathir-ar-Sankarankoil Pambatti" found in the old
stanza, which is given as source so far, his place of Samadhi has to be taken as Sankarankoil is
Tirunelveli District of Tamil Nadu (India).
Scripts taken from:
Chapter Eighteen (Pages 364 & 365) of book entitled "Eighteen Siddhars in History of Siddha
Medicine" by Mr. N. Kandasamy Pillai, Former Member, Siddha Science Development Committee and
Published by the Government of Tamil Nadu in 1979.
A Precise History of Sri Pambatti Siddhar Samadhi at
Sankarankovil
The nobility and sublimity of the Cobra, which symbolically represents the power of Kundalini in human
beings, is hailed with mystical flavor in more than a hundred verses by Sri Pambatti siddhar, each
ending with the refrain 'Dance Thou Cobra!'.
He is the last among the noted 18 siddhars. He belongs to the Kozhayi family. The Himalayas are their
ancestral land. Essentially the Kozhayi's were cowherds and sheep herds and dependent on the
products of cows and sheep. Slowly they moved out of their place and in due course came to South
India . Some say that Sri Pambatti Siddhar was born at Thirukkokarnam, near Pudukkottai and some
others in the Pandya Kingdom . Mrigasirisham was his birth star in the Tamil month of Karthigai
(November-December). He was considered a manifestation of Lord Siva. On being given spiritual
initiation by his Guru Sattamuni, as the disciple changed the five elements into a five-headed cobra, he
came to be known as "Pambatti siddhar". There are a few who say that he got this name because he
lent symbolically in his verses the image of a cobra to the Kundalini power.
Sri Pambatti siddhar attained the eight supernatural powers called 'Ashtamasiddhi' after performing
penance for a very long time in a cave on Marudamalai, near Coimbatore in Tamil Nadu. Also he lived
in places like Mahalingamalai in Vathiraayiruppu, Kollimalai, Madurai , Puliyur and Bhavani.
Sri Sivaprabhakara Siddhayogi Paramahamsar was the worthy disciple of this great siddhar. The
former was born in a Namboodiri family of Kaladi, Kerala. As the Guru and his follower remained
inseparable, they did atonement for 45 years on the Himalayas and came to Sankarankoil. Sri
Pambatti Siddhar established the statue of Goddess Gomathi Amman there. Later, at the south-west
corner, about a furlong behind the temple, amidst punnai trees (now door number 15, Puliyankudi
Road). Sri Pambatti Siddhar got established in the state of Nirvikalpa Samadhi (also known as Jeeva
Samadhi) at the sacred hands of his disciple.
Some books mention that Sri Pambatti siddhar attained samadhi at Virudhachalam and some at
Thirukkadaiyur. However, their claims have no established proof. It may be assumed that Sri Pambatti
siddhar would have lived in those places and in order to reveal that the disciple could himself assume
the frame of his master, might have got established in samadhi in these two places in the guise of Sri
Pambatti Siddhar. This might have been possible for him because Sri Prabhakarar got into the bodies
of 15 persons at different times by the unique process called 'Metempsychosis' (Transmigration)
and proved himself to be the noble student of his aspired preceptor.
It can be authentically proved that Sri Pambatti siddhar got samadhi only at Sankarankoil. Some such
proofs are cited below:
1) In his book entitled "History of Siddha Medicine" written in English by Mr. N. Kannuppillai and
published by the Government of Tamil Nadu in 1979, under the chapter "Eighteen Siddhars", the
author has written on pages 364-366 about Pambatti siddhar and clearly mentioned that he attained
samadhi at Sankarankoil.
2) In the hoary palm leaves of Pulithevar entitled " Nerkattum Seval " in the form of a song there are
references to the places where the 18 siddhar's had attained samadhi and in it is mentioned that Sri
Pambatti siddhar's place of samadhi is at Sankarankoil.
3) Dr. Yogi S. A. A. Ramiah in his book " A Collection of the Verses of the Eighteen Siddhars for Daily
Recitation n" (in Tamil) too makes a similar mention when he records that Sri. Pambatti siddhar in
order to attain Svarupa samadhi in Sankarankoil kindled his cobra power of Kundalini.
4) The Gayatri Mantra of Sri Pambatti siddhar is :
" Om Sankaranaalaya Pathivaazh Sittharaaya
Vechitra Rupaaya Pambatti Sittharaaya Namaha" .
This also makes an identical proclamation.
Thus, beyond doubt, it is established that Sri Pambatti Siddhar's Jeeva Samadhi is only at
Sankarankoil and not anywhere else.
The sole disciple of Sri Pambatti Siddhar was Brahmananda Sri Sivaprabhakara Siddhayogi
Paramahamsar and that of the latter is Brahmasri Siddharaja Swamiji, who has, at the behest of his
Guru, had undertaken the great task of constructing a sacred samadhi Temple for his Guru's Guru.
Brahmasri Siddharaja Swamiji had taken up some other truly useful missions to the society. His plan
was to construct separate buildings for siddha research centre and for mass feeding, to be housed
within the proposed building complex of the siddhar samadhi.
Just in front of the siddhar samadhi lies a big water tank called "Govinda Peri", meant for the annual
float festival of the temple. It was in ruins and Brahmasri Siddharaja Swamiji had desilted the tank and
renovated its southern and western walls at a cost of about Rs.80,000 and let the people of the area of
the town to bathe comfortably in it. Also he had renovated the "Govinda Peri Mutt" and established a
"Bhakthi Peeth". He had finished construction of two temples - one dedicated to Lord Ganesh and the
other to Lord Balamurugan - and they are meant for public worship.
Brahmasri Siddharaja Swamigal had some more generous plans : to build a charity marriage hall, a
serene hall for meditation and a school for the chanting of hymns of the Vedas. The present small
sanctum santorium of Sri Pambatti siddhar (presently a thatched shed structure only) is to be built
extensively. A proverb says "only one Caste and one Lord". True to that statement, Brahmasri
Siddharaja Swamiji did everything without any discrimination of caste, creed and religion. So far many
lakhs of rupees have been spent. The aforesaid construction work was estimated to have costed
nearly 40 lakh Indian Rupees (INR). Of course, the public voluntarily came forward and donated
liberally for this inimitable spiritual cause.
Every sincere devotee is called upon to pay his / her mite by sending an amount equal to at least a
day's salary to the Samadhi Peedam (Contact Information of Samadhi Peedam) and become a part of
this unique social service.
Note: The names of those who donate Rs.2,000 or more shall be engraved on the walls of the temple.
The Eminence of Sri Pambatti Siddhar's Samadhi
Some special features of Sri Pambati Siddhar's Samadhi are presented here:
1) It is a historically recorded evidence that in order to cure Pulithevar, a daring patriot, of his
excruciating stomach pain the then pontiff of Thiruvaduthurai used the ant-hill soil on the Samadhi of
Sri Pambatti Siddhar. It readily reveals the curative efficacy of the Samadhi soil. Daily devotes who
throng the shrine take the soil to their homes as 'Prasadam'. The Tulsi tank water in the temple cures
many diseases and protects devotees from many diseases.
2) There is a grill-structure with 18 lamps, just behind the Siddhar's shrine. The Pranava Mantra "OM"
is at its centre. There is a "Trident" at the top of the lamps to refer to the Three Lords, born out of the
Pranava Mantra. Each lamp encompassing "OM" stands for a Siddhar.
The prayers of those devotees who keep a small cloth packet containing Sesame seeds in each of
these cup like lamps, fill with gingelly oil, light them and pray sincerely are heard and fulfilled at once.
This is what devotees who gather at the shrine in multitudes often assert. Brahmasri Siddharaja
Swamiji himself once directed some of his devotees to observe this rite in order to rid them of the
adverse effects of Mars in the 7th house of their horoscope (Commonly referred as "Sevvai Dhosha" in
Tamil Astronomy) or the hostile influence of Raghu, Kethu and Saturn. Those who follow these
directions fervently get the following favours:
Those who suffer from
1. Sevvai Dhosha get a good life partner,
2. Saturn's retardation get peace of mind,
3. Issues beget children,
4. unemployed get suitable jobs, etc.
3) There is a big lamp which is kept burning all the 24 hours of a day at the Sanctum Sanctorium of Sri
Pambatti Siddhar. It consumes one litre of gingelly oil per day. Sri Pambatti Siddhar protects the
interests of those who keep it burning and workship him earnestly. Daily devotees bring garlands,
flowers, camphor, incense sticks, coconuts, bananas and other fruits for the daily adoration of the
Parabrahamam Statue established on the Samadhi of Sri Pambatti Siddhar. No doubt they get His
blessings in full measure.
4) This is an exquisitely carved four-sided idol. At the top it is a 14-headed cobra spreading its hoods,
with figures of Lord Vishnu on the east, Lord Siva and splendid Goddess Gomathi on the south, Lord
Muruga on the west and Lord Ganesh on the north. This signifies that the 14-headed Cobra, Sri
Pambatti Siddhar, contains the Three Lords in Himself. This also implies that HE is Parabrahman
Himself.
5) This Siddhar temple is popularly known by the epithet 'Samadhi of the Munificent Philanthropist' for
the obvious reason that large scale mass feeding was frequently conducted here by Sri Siddharaja
Swamiji. Currently the mass feedings are organized by the S.P.S.S.P. trust. True to the epithet, on the
days of Adi Thapas in the month of July-August, a very extensive mass feeding is performed every
year. So far 16 such feedings have been accomplished and over 20,000 people are fed on each
occasion.
Further, all devotes who visit the shrine are fed daily and hence without an iota of exaggeration it is
called 'Annadana Samadhi'. Everyone is invited to go in large numbers to this famous shrine of Sri
Pambatti Siddhar at Sankarankoil, get His blessings and have a foretaste of the celestial bliss.

"அவரவர் இச்சையில் எவை எவை உற்றவை அவை தருவித்தருள் பெருமாளே!" _ திருவக்கரை திருப்புகழ்
 
OP
OP
DURGADASAN
DEAR NRR JI

Even I go through the songs of azhuguni siddhar. Some special songs are written by him only for other siddhas. (It is for them to understand as it has many secret codes for them). Also some songs like you mentioned "MOOLA PATHADIYO MOOVIRANDU VASALADI" are songs related to Yoga. Will explain the same next after finishing "Kudhambai siddhar" songs. Iam sure I will expect lot of discussions and support when I take Azhuguni siddhar as many of his songs are indirect in nature.

Pranams
 

N.R.Ranganathan

Active member
siddhars' paadalgal

Dear sri Durgadasanji,

Many thanks. I shall wait.

In my opinion, Pattinathaar's songs must help one cultivate
vairagya since he was forthright in pointing out the anithyathvam
of human life and relationships. Dont you think so sir ?

All the Siddhars' songs have deep and hidden meaning and surely
it makes us think quite a lot to understand. These are great
treasures, and I am very glad that you are bringing them to the
open.
 
OP
OP
DURGADASAN
There is no second opinion in that sir. He is a perfect siddhar. One small incident which is not much known in his history.

The next day after he turned to sanyasic life, the chola king ruling the part got annoyed and he also got a doubt whether a person who dwelled amidst of that much royalty can be just turned opposite all of a sudden. So, he prepared himself to see him. The king met pattinathar and asked him, "You left all your properties all of a sudden. But what is the use you saw in this?". While asking this, the king was standing before pattinathar and the siddhapurusha was sitting under a tree. Pattinathar showed himself and said "THIS". Then he explained, "See oh king. When I was a royal chettiar, many a times I had visited your court. But all the times, I am the person who came there to meet you and today you came to meet me. When I meet you, always you will be sitting in the great throne, but today you are standing and am sitting infront of you. Whenever I came there, I will praise you. But today you came here to praise the sadhus.

These are the things which I got from this life...

How true he is. The real siddha doesnt care for anything. As they know nothing is their property, they never get harmed mentally.

Pranams
 
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DURGADASAN
ஆதாரமான அடிமுடி கண்டோர்க்கு
வாதாட்டம் ஏதுக்கடி- குதம்பாய்
வாதாட்டம் ஏதுக்கடி

நித்திரை கெட்டு நினைவோடிருப்போர்க்கு
முத்திரை ஏதுக்கடி- குதம்பாய்
முத்திரை ஏதுக்கடி

5. When the person has known completely the brahmam, then why should he shout with others to prove that??? Here the siddhar has used the words adi-mudi, which means he is depicting the incident of Brahma-vishnu searching the head and end of the holyfire form of shiva. It is meant that god cannot be reached by knowledge and wealth. Education teaches you the clever way to cover the truth and wealth makes you to win until it gets dissolved. So, both are not at all needed to reach god. And once the person has reached such a state of brahma, he never mingles with other people and talks and shouts with them.

6. The real siddha who has conquered his sleep and continously put himself in the state of samadhi, does not need any advertisement for him. Infact, the state of "Nithirai kettu ninaivodu" is exactly the samadhi. When a person from outside sees the true siddhar, he will think that the siddhar is sleeping. But actually he is in the state of samadhi only. The person who attained samadhi yoga never needs any fames, or ads for himself.

Note: On reading these verses (particularly kudhambai sidhhar's), am much wondering of these days duplicate sadhus who always go behind money, fame, TV ads, etc. Kudhambai siddhar's foretelling knowledge is very great...

Pranams
 
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DURGADASAN
தந்திரமான தலந்தனில் நிற்போர்க்கு
மந்திரம் ஏதுக்கடி- குதம்பாய்
மந்திரம் ஏதுக்கடி

சத்தியமான தவத்தில் இருப்போருக்கு
உத்தியம் ஏதுக்கடி- குதம்பாய்
உத்தியம் ஏதுக்கடி

7. When the true siddhar has settled himself in the path of yoga, why he is in need of cheap mantras to satisfy his needs. In this statement, we cannot take all the manthras are waste. Instead, every mantra has the power of binding a deity and makes the deity to bless us with some boons. Siddhar people are apart from this. They saw the divinity within themselves, who are also in the path of "Nirgunopasana". So, the usage of manthras are mere waste for those.

8. When the true siddhar is in REAL PENANCE, what is his need for other job to do? Siddhar here used the word "Sathiyamana dhavam". Nowadays a lot of saints (???) are wandering here and there, who are very particular in doing other jobs. Siddhar as usual with his foretelling knowledge has coined these verses I think. When the real siddhar who has immersed himself in the penance, he will not realise himself. Then why he should concentrate on other matters which primely distracts him.
 
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DURGADASAN
9. நாட்டத்தைப் பற்றி நடுவணை சேர்ந்தோர்க்கு
வாட்டங்கள் ஏதுக்கடி- குதம்பாய்
வாட்டங்கள் ஏதுக்கடி

10. முத்தமிழ் கற்று முயங்கும் மெய்ஞானிக்கு
சத்தங்கள் ஏதுக்கடி- குதம்பாய்
சத்தங்கள் ஏதுக்கடி


9. When a person has turned to real siddhar by choosing the path of yoga and by capturing all his desires and attained the god, who is of neutral to all the beings, what are the sorrows that the siddhar will be having? These verses clearly states that siddha people are always in the state of "Paramanandha" and they dont have any worries with them at all. The word "Naduvanai sarndhorkku" means the god who is neutral to all, but we can also take the meaning that even these siddhar people themselves are very neutral to all the living beings.

10. Taking the literal meaning of "Muthamizh" would not be appropriate here I think. Muthamizh (Iyal-Isai-Nadagam) (Means all sort of communication through a language). The true siddhar is neither an illiterate nor an dumb. He knows every language and every other ways of communication. Eventhough he behaves like a dumb. Being a true siddha (MEIGNANI), the communication (Satham) itself is totally not needed. These verses also intends to convey that siddhar people always need Privacy. They dont want publicity and hence they dont use their communication modes also. So though they knew all sorts of communication, they remain quiet only.

Pranams
 
10. முத்தமிழ் கற்று முயங்கும் மெய்ஞானிக்கு
சத்தங்கள் ஏதுக்கடி- குதம்பாய்
சத்தங்கள் ஏதுக்கடி

[.....] So though they knew all sorts of communication, they remain quiet only.


Dear DD, here is it not possible that சத்தம் is "sabdham" = Four Vedas. The siddhar is probably saying all you need is in முத்தமிழ், you do not need the Sanskrit Vedas.

Cheers!
 

N.R.Ranganathan

Active member
Siddhar paadalgal

Dear sri Durgadasanji,

Vidwan N.Devanathan and sri Aru Ramanathan give the meaning
of the word ' saththangal ' as ' eduthusol ilanganangal ' , vide page
218 , part I of their book. This is almost similar to the first song
of ; Bhajagovindam ' , will your knowledge of grammar protect you
when Lord Yama comes to take your life.

But, here, the meaning might be - where is the need for idiomatic
and decorative words when, having mastered the subject, the
Gnaani has realized the Truth.

I may be wrong since the words of siddhars have various meanings
and I will stand corrected.

regards,
 
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DURGADASAN
THANKS TO PROF.NARA AND NRR JI FOR FOLLOW-UPS.
Dear Nara ji
I think taking the meaning of Saptham or sabtham to vedas here will not be appropriate. The basic reason is even these vedas are also provided by siddha purushas only. Second is vedas are directing us to the path of god, which siddha people always accepts. Here, it is clearly mentioned that "Muthamizh katru", so we may think that siddhar people gave importance to tamil than sanskrit (Vedas). But its not so. Siddha like "Bhoga" is of even chinese origin. Actually they are far from religion, sects, languages, etc. (THEY ARE EVEN FAR FROM NORMAL PEOPLE LIKE US). So I think that the proper meaning is they are not much interested in communications.

Dear NRR ji

They dont want to communicate will be right. Because, why am stressing is even in the previous posts we discussed about azhuguni siddhars songs. Everything is indirect verses, and noone can understand it appropriately. They just want to keep some verses secret. Even if they want to communicate with us, sometimes their conversation/composition will be like this (very hard to understand).

I agree with you 100%. The real intended meaning of siddha songs is known to that corresponding siddha only. Am a mere instrument just reading and explaining it in my own way (Which may be just 0.000001%).


Pranams
 

N.R.Ranganathan

Active member
Siddhar paadalgal

Dear sir:

I do agree. Sri Poondi Mahaan used to say - pari bhashaiyai
purinthukollakooda jnanam venumappa . Translated into english,
it would read - one needs gnanam ( no equivalent for this in
english ) even to understand the pithy and indirect sayings of
the siddhars.

He used to talk less and that too in one or two phrases, but
these are heavy loaded.
 
....I think taking the meaning of Saptham or sabtham to vedas here will not be appropriate. The basic reason is even these vedas are also provided by siddha purushas only.


Yes, DD, you may be right. But, what is the extent to which the Siddhars accepted the Vedic Brahminism? I believe even today there are followers of Tamil Saiva Siddhantham who do not subscribe to the Vedas.

Anyway, here is a verse from Naladiyar that uses the exact same word சத்தம்,
நிலையாமை நோய்மூப்புச் சாக்காடென் றெண்ணித்
தலையாயார் தங்கருமஞ் செய்வார் - தொலைவில்லாச்
சத்தமுஞ் சோதிடமும் என்றாங் கிவைபிதற்றும்
பித்தரிற் பேதையர் இல்.
(The wise attend to their duty knowing life's impermanence, decease, old age, and death.
None more foolish can be found than those
insane who go endlessly after "sabdha" texts and astrology.)
In this verse, சத்தம் is the four vedas.

Cheers!

p.s. We as a people must find a way to honor our great forefathers, siddhars included, without deifying them to the stratosphere putting them beyond our intellectual reach. This only encourages superstitions, and therefore, is to be rejected.
 

N.R.Ranganathan

Active member
Siddhar paadalgal

Dear sir :

Before I post this, I have to caution that the philosophy or views
of the Siddhars can not be copied by all of us ( at least me ) who
are yet to reach the highest level of spiritual experience.

Sivavakkiar is forthfight when he says :

' saathirangal Odukinra sattanaatha bhattarE
vErthu iraippu vandapOdhu vEdam vandu udhavumo ?
..... '

and

' paraichiyaavadu Edhada panathiyaavathu Edhada
iraichithOl elumbinum ilakkamittu irukkudhO
........ '

There are also other verses by him deriding caste distinction,
rituals and others. But let us remember that he is speaking all
these after having reached the highest state. All these things
are necessary to reach that stage and afterwards these can be
discarded like what Sri Krishna has said at the end of Srimad
Bhagavat Gita. I am not talking about others but I am saying that
I am not perfect yet.
 
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DURGADASAN
Dear Nara ji and NRR

As we discussed in all our previous posts, siddhars are for enlightment of the human society. We cannot bound them into mere rituals, castes, sects and other silly things where we normal humans are bind with. At the sametime, they are not against the vedic hymns I think. Since you quoted some verses, I am also quoting some

"VEDA VIDHIPPADI NILLU"- KAduveli siddhar verses.

They actually object casteism and also ritualism. Some siddhars also opposed deity worship. But they are not against vedic hymns, they are actually against people who thinks upper-lower class because of studying vedas.

Pranams
 

N.R.Ranganathan

Active member
Siddhar paadalgal

Dear Durgadasanji,

My reply was for the limited purpose of showing that the siddhars
are not bound by any norms or rules . As realized men, they are in
different plane of existence.

In support of your verse may I add, sir, one more of Pattinathaar:

Kallaappizhaiyum karudhappizhaiyum .......
ellaa pizhaiyum poruththarulvai kachchi EkambanE.

Here Kalla means ' not learning the vedam '.
 
.. So I think that the proper meaning is they are not much interested in communications.

Dear DD, please permit me to revisit this poem. The song is so exquisite I feel quite unsatisfied with interpreting சத்தங்கள் as communication. The first line is about not just some ஞானி, but a முத்தமிழ் கற்று முயங்கும் மெய்ஞானி.

The emphasis it seems is on முத்தமிழ். The மெய்ஞானம் has come from முத்தமிழ் texts. So, in this context, interpreting சத்தங்கள் to mean Samskrita texts, namely the Chatur vedas, seems more apt and consistent, a contrast between two sets of texts. The word being in plural form gives more credence to this interpretation. Interpreting it as grammar or chit-chat is quite unconvincing.

...They just want to keep some verses secret. Even if they want to communicate with us, sometimes their conversation/composition will be like this (very hard to understand).

I agree with you 100%. The real intended meaning of siddha songs is known to that corresponding siddha only.
Dear DD, I am sorry, I am unable to accept this. Why even write it down if it is to be secret or only the author is supposed to know the real meaning? Seems pointless.

There may be several layers of meanings. Even Azhvar pasurams are supposed to have several meanings and one has to study under a bonefide acharya to be able to peel off the outer layers and get to the inner meaning buried underneath. But, this, I think, is mostly about control and to keep everyone in line with the "official" interpretation. Very often a cigar is just a cigar.

Also, from what I understand, Siddhars were not all alike. Some were quite traditional and others went against the prevailing orthodoxy with gusto.

Hope you do not mind a little second opinion from me, it is just another view, hope you will consider it in the same friendly spirit in which it is offered.

With best regards and great appreciation for what you are doing dear DD, please do keep it up.

Cheers!
 
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DURGADASAN
Dear Nara ji

Pranams

There is nothing wrong in your posts. Infact am enjoying. Am not a learned scholar. Am here to share some known things and ready to get alerted with the unknown. So, your posts are really boosting me.

With the first part am OK.

With the second part, even we are also saying the same what you said. They are kept secret in the sense as you said they will be revelead only when you reach a perfect acharya to find out the meaning. The siddhar people write them down just to pass the same to like-minded people. Exactly not for all to say simple like a cigar as a cigar. I think the meanings are not just like that as we were exposed them.

For example,

"
மூலப் பதியடியோ மூவிரண்டு வீடதிலே
கோலப்பதியடியோ குதர்க்க தெரு நடுவே
பாலப் பதிதனிலே தணலாய் வளர்த்த கம்பம்
மேலப் பதிதனிலே என் கண்ணம்மா-
விளையாட்டைப் பாரேனோ"

This is a song composed by Azhuguni siddhar. I am simply able to know that this song is telling me something about yoga. Thats all. Though its in normal tamil, the intended meaning is unknown.

Why to take other example, even in the previous example, you are saying that sathangal is vedam, am saying sathangal as communication, ofcourse the real meaning of sathangal (means noisy) is also apt here. How we can judge whichever is correct?

Azhwar pasurams/ Thevaram everything has many many intended meanings. I accept. But those treasures have been ploughed enough by scholarly people, who gave us "thelivurai, padavurai, vilakkavurai, and some "urais" for even them". What is the situation of the same to siddhar songs? We cannot say that songs are very clear and communicate appropriate meaning just by the songs of Kaduveli and kudhambai siddhars. Most of the siddhar language is very difficult to understand for normal beings like me. I dont know about you Nara ji, whether its so simple that it sounds like a cigar as a cigar.

Sorry if I go wrong and am also willing to get corrected.

Pranams
 

N.R.Ranganathan

Active member
Siddhar paadalgal

Dear Sirs:

I have found it difficult to understand Azhugani siddhar while
Pattinathar's and Badragiriar's are easy to understand, couched
in simple and direct language . Perhaps an advanced practisioner
of yoga with Jnana too will be able to understand. This is my
humble opinion. regards,
 
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DURGADASAN
11. உச்சிக்கு மேற்சென்று உயர்வெளி கண்டோர்க்கு
இச்சிபிங் கேதுக்கடி- குதம்பாய்
இச்சிபிங் கேதுக்கடி

12. வேகாமல் வெந்து வெளிஒளி கண்டோர்க்கு
மோகாந்தம் ஏதுக்கடி- குதம்பாய்
மோகாந்தம் ஏதுக்கடி

11. How a real sadhu who attained the perfect gnana through the yoga, by transferring his kundalini from the base to the head crossing his forehead and found the god as "holy space" filled within his body as well as in the entire universe, will get desires over cheapest things? He never desire for anything in this universe as he totally knew everything. (In this verse, it can also be known that the siddhar people has reached highest status (Uchikkum merchendru) of knowing god and hence they never behave in the cheaper ways of desiring like normal numan beings)

12. What we known in our daytoday cooking is done only by baking. Similarly the siddhar people also made themselves baked with the help of their Gnana. But they are not fired literally, although their penance will hit like a fire. Such a sadhu filled with the power of penance should not get lust on anything. (Check with the verses of siddhar once again- we can discuss the story of viswamithra, a great sage who fell in lust with menaka, there are many more stories like this dealing with great revered sages, but the sharp usage of the word "vendhu" - baked show only the sages with the full-baked gnana will be of having these great qualities).

Pranams
 
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