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Siddhar padalgal

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Yes Esarkey ji

The space is also god (brahmam) only na (ubiquitous, essential for life, created life, protects life, destroys life...). So only mentioned there like that in #23.

21. ஆன்மாவால் ஆடிடும் ஆட்டம்- தேகத்
தான்மா அற்றபோதே யாமுடல் வாட்டம்
வான்கதி மீதிலே நாட்டம்- நாளும்
வையில் உனக்கு வருமே கொண்டாட்டம்

22. எட்டும் இரண்டையும் ஓர்ந்து- மறை
எல்லாமுனக்குள்ளே ஏகமாய் தேர்ந்து
வெட்ட வெளியினைச் சார்ந்து- ஆனந்த
வெள்ளத்தின் மூழ்கி மிகுகளி கூர்ந்து

21. We all think that we are enjoying everything because of this body. But what is important more than that is the soul... When the soul leaves the body, the body will degrade. So, whatever we are doing is just because of the support of the inner soul. When we divert ourselves in the path of divine (vaangadhi- Though the literal meaning of path leading to sky is also apt, I think the following meaning suits more: The path which is divine and the path which is superior to all other things, remains uncomparable, which covers everything under its umbrella, which is vast, like the sky), we can enjoy each and every moment of our life without any distress. (Siddhar here says "naalum- daily", which means we should train our mind in such a way that it should not deviate from the divine path at all. Even if deviates, we should bring it back again.

22. Know well about eight and two (The studies which can reveal you the Eight siddhis and two athmas (jeevathma and paramathma) (Might be there will be some other 8*2 combos, which I don't know) and learn all the vedas within yourself clearly. What it means? It mean we should clearly know the meanings of everything (Here marai refers not only the vedas, those scriptures that possess internal and indirect (athirahasya) meanings all comes under this class). Mingle with the space (that is with god/brahmam). If we proceed like this we can remain always in happy. See the sequential description of siddhar. First study (orndhu), then master yourself. Just because of reading everything you cannot achieve anything. ஏட்டு சுரைக்காய் கறிக்கு உதவாது
After learning and masterizing keep yourself attached with god (In terms of siddhars, help others (mankind)), then you will always remain in happiness and continous joy.

22. எட்டும் இரண்டையும் ஓர்ந்து- மறை
எல்லாமுனக்குள்ளே ஏகமாய் தேர்ந்து
வெட்ட வெளியினைச் சார்ந்து- ஆனந்த
வெள்ளத்தின் மூழ்கி மிகுகளி கூர்ந்து

22. Know well about eight and two (The studies which can reveal you the Eight siddhis and two athmas (jeevathma and paramathma) (Might be there will be some other 8*2 combos, which I don't know)

Hello DD, First, thanks for this thread, I am enjoying it.

"எட்டும் இரண்டையும்" has a special significance for Sri Vaishnavam. The exact phrase is used by Swami Sri Desikan. As far as I know, Siddars were Saivaites. If I am correct, this must just be a coincincidence. Is it, or is it possible that some of the Siddars were Vaishnavites?

to Prof NaraJi, Siddhars not belong to Sivam or Vaishnavam. They never preached any specific God,Goddess or demy gods. Their Sivam,Nandi,Sakthi and other gods names are only Kundalis and Sivam means Kaduveli.,Brahmandan, Supremebeing like wise. So dont bring Siddharsunder some classification by so called divn od Saivam or Vaishnavam. s.r.k.
to Durga Dasan Ji: Eight and Two are the tamil no A is eight and Two is the secent letter OU this is a portation of Body from Nabi to Throat, Vedam means to learn Yogam. Your briefings are very good. Keep it up. OHM came from this 2 letters and joining M. s.r.k.
Nara ji

As Esarkeyji said, I too agree that siddhar people never consider any gods or demigods. But what is the meaning of 8*2 there in vaishnavism??? We cannot restrict the thoughts of siddhars, who might have said for that also na... Just share that also pls. Many siddhars worshipped Vishnu also. For example, Idaikkattu siddhar worshipped shri krishna.

Esarkey ji

The interpretation of 8*2 as Ohm is simply superb. Certainly "ohm" is siddhar people's favorite chanting.

According to Shiddar, the human body is a temple of god. Man is a miniature representation of Paramata. The purpose of life is to realize god and to manifest that realization in all planes of existence. It is possible for man to got over the five limitations of narai. thirai, muppu, desease, and death. It is possible to maintain external youth. Our body is peculiarly constructed as to contain several principal psycho-energy centers, known as chakras, which when stimulated by yogic practices awaken one's higher spiritual faculties. By perfecting those practices, eight great supernatural powers(Sidhis) may manifest before realization.

Anima - power to becoming as small as atom
Mahima - power to expand without limit
Karima - power to become heavy
lahima - power to becoming as light as possible
prapathi - power to know everything, past, present and future.
Prahamlyam - power to achieve an one's desires: absolute keenness of the mind and senses.
Esathuvam - power over both animate and inanimate objects
Vasithuvam - power to command over all by thought
Dear Ramansrini

The question here is not about the explanation of siddhis. Whether someother 8 is there in their language????

23. இந்த உலகமோ முள்ளு- சற்றும்
இச்சை வையாமலே எந்நாளும் தள்ளு
செந்தேன் வெள்ளம் அதை மொள்ளு- உன்றன்
சிந்தை தித்திக்க தெவிட்டவுட்கொள்ளு

24. பொய்வேதம் தன்னைப் பாராதே- அந்த
போதகர் சொற்புத்தி போதவாராதே
மைய விழியாரை சாராதே- துன்
மார்கர்கள் கூட்டத்தில் மகிழ்ந்து சேராதே

23. The whole world is filled with sorrow and Maya. So, sidhhar states that this whole world life is filled with pricking thorns. So, how to get rid from it? The simple way is just get rid from this worldily materials. just ignore them. Might be the statement by siddhar is simple and easy. But to follow that in practical life, it shows how big a tough task. If you want to enjoy, enjoy the supreme god like nectar. There is no limit for that divine joy and till you attain satisfaction, you can experience (drink) the nectar.

24. Never even see the paths leading false destination. (Poi vedam- I dont know what he really means here, am also eager to know whether he is refering bible). Because, in the very next statement, siddhar clearly states that the "preacher's word cannot save you". The words of preacher who preaches a false religion will not save you from the sins, though it may makes you to think that the religion is leading to right way (an illusionary effect). Similarly, never go beyond girls just because of lust. Also, never join in the group of persons who may distract you from the divine path. (All these things are the hurdles which we have to cross to reach the proper divine way). The word dhunmargar, I think is very unique in our language. Though its opposite to "Sanmarghis" (persons who leads us to divine path), these words are very special...

But what is the meaning of 8*2 there in vaishnavism???


Eight stands for Thiruvashtaksharam, namely, Om namo narayanaya.

Two stands for the two line verse known as Dvayam. It reads,

"sriman narayana chranow saranam prapadhye
srimate narayanaya namaha"

These two and the BG Charama Shloka are three most important esoteric and secret manthras for Sri Vaishnavas mumukshoos.

Since Thiruvashtakshram and Dvayam are Vedic, even spelling them out like I have done above is strictly blasphemous, but you will hear these manthras chanted over the loudspeakers in temples these days.

The third manthra, BG Charama shloka, can be recited aloud and therefore it is not a secret in the strict sense, but its true meaning is a secret to be received only from a quaified and authentic achara.

Dear Nara

Thanks for the info. Might be siddhar has mentioned that. But why to contradict is in all other stanzas he has mentioned sivan and sivam, so only a bit confused. If you go deeper, the differences will certainly diffuse. For matured people like siddhars, I think both shiva and vishnu are the same.

Anyhow thanks a lot for timely sharing of the info...

25. வைதோரைக் கூட வையாதே- இந்த
வையம் முழுதும் பொய்த்தாலும் பொய்யாதே
வெய்ய வினைகள் செய்யாதே- கல்லை
வீணிற் பறவைகள் மீதில் எய்யாதே

26. சிவமின்றி வேறே வேண்டாதே- யார்க்கும்
தீங்கான சண்டை சிறக்க தூண்டாதே
தவநிலை விட்டு தாண்டாதே- நல்ல
சன்மார்க்கம் இல்லாத நூலை வேண்டாதே

25. Dont curse or scold anyone, even if the person did the same to you. When we scold others? It is only when we got angry. Even great sages got angry and curses the person incharge in myths. At the sametime, it is also sais that their power of penance will get reduced by this and hence they once again perform penance for that. The right meaning is because of cursing or scolding, we loose our positive energy from us. So, never scold anyone. (Indirectly control your anger). Never say lies. What we usually say, when someone finds that we are lying? Quite simple, we will escape that already he lied like this, i too pass the same. So siddhar here mentions that even this whole world turns to be liars, you keep yourself on the side of truth. Never do harm to anything. Without any need, just for time-pass, dont throw stones on birds.

This last line has really melted me. How waxy their hearts are? Siddhar is not telling that you should never do harm to birds even if they eat all your grains in paddy fields. He is telling that without any reason dont hurt birds. Siddhar is training our minds in the path of "Ahimsa" at the sametime, whenever it should be followed.

26. NEver ask for anything else rather than "SIVAM" (the supremacy- the kaduveli- the brahmam- the paramathma resting inside you). A fight will never frutify anything (One more example for siddhar's ahimsa mind); So, never induce any kinda quarrel. Never leave from the path of penance. Dont get any kind of books which deviate from divine path. (This final line is also confusing me whether siddhar is telling anyother religious texts...)

27. பாம்பினைப் பற்றி யாட்டாதே- உந்தன்
பத்தினிமார்களை பழித்துக்காட்டாதே
வேம்பினை உலகில் ஊட்டாதே- உந்தன்
வீராப்பு தன்னை விளங்க நாட்டாதே

28. போற்றும் சடங்கை நண்ணாதே- உன்னைப்
புகழ்ந்து பலரிற் புகல வொண்ணாதே
சாற்றுமுன் வாழ்வை எண்ணாதே - பிறர்
தாழும் படிக்கு நீ தாழ்வை பண்ணாதே

27. Dont harm the snakes. If we take this in a bird's view, this line comes next to "dont harm the birds". So, this is a continuation of that. But, in a deeper sense, the siddhar here is mentioning the snake (KUNDALINI). Dont create any harm to the power of kundalini (Indirectly he advises us to develop and feel the power of kundalini). Never show your angries over your wife. (Even Ambal is also called as "kaulini- since she is following the path of kulam (it is the path where kundalini travels); So, here we can also take the meaning that dont underestimate the kundalini residing within you). Never do a job, that creates bad effects to this world. It means to the society (or in recent hot issue "the ecosystem"). Never argue to win the opponent. Just accept so that you can also learn new things (I THINK THIS ADVISE IS VERY PARTICULAR FOR MYSELF).

27. Never criticise the customs and religious acts. I myself feels very bad when even our own forum members argue whether pitrutharpana is needed or some other religious act is needed and all. Siddhar has not bound with any religious acts and ceremonies. Eventhough he is advising us not to question or making fun of them. I also wonder whether in other religions also will people ask like this??. (Siddhar has a good forevision and before itself he sang like this). At the sametime, never allow others to praise you. This is mainly because the ego and superiority complex will develop within you which drives you away totally from divine path. Never think of this illusionary life. Dont harm anyone, which makes them to feel bad and mkes their lives miserable.

To Durga Dasan ji: I was absent for last 4 days. Your meanings are correct, but Siddhars use Kundali and Vallai Kumari also kundali same way pathni pann is the 2 main nerve system, if you go to some unqualified teacher and learn Kundalni yoge your life will be danger so becareful in selecting your yoga master. Prof Nara try to bring Vaisanvam in siddhars, siddhars teaching is pure Self realization to God realization with in Human Body and Vaisanvam is teaching Idol worship. As for siddhers concerned Vishnu is a devatha and he is helping to digest the food reached stomach. s.r.k.
29. கஞ்சா புகை பிடியாதே - வெறி
காட்டி மயங்கிய கட் குடியாதே
அஞ்ச வுயிர் மடியாதே- பக்தி
அற்றவன் ஞானத்தின் நூல் படியாதே

30. பக்தியெனும் மேனி நாட்டி-சொந்த
பந்தமற்ற விடம் பார்த்ததை நீட்டி
சத்தியமென்றதை ஈட்டி- நாளும்
தன்வசமாக்கிகொள் சமயங்களோட்டி

29. Dont use narcotics like kanja (by using ganja you cannot achieve anything in your spiritual life). Dont drink. Because of drinking wine, the brain loose its stabilisation and the man will become totally out of control. If you keep on doing these, then your life will end in a very sad way. (Even at those times itself, the ill-effects of ganja and wine has been explained by our siddhar). Similar to the previous end verses, this stanza also ends with "Dont read the books of atheist" (Is he stating only about atheists or other religious texts too is a question still remains).

30. Grow your body with divinity. If you want to lead a yogic life, go alone where your kith and kins wont come and disturb you. Earn the rightoeusness and by doing these things, you can drive all the religions. I think Esarkey ji is right, siddhars dont believe in religions itself. They know very well that there is only one supreme god. By this last verse, it is very clear, that they hate religions and they wanna drive them away.

Dear Nara
As far as I am concerned, I dont find any fault in that 8 and 2 of your explanation. Siddhars are the people who knows everything. Just to add the dignity this siddhar might use that terms I think.

But after reading this last verse, am sure that siddhars are far from religions and also worship of individual gods. We cannot say simply that all siddhars are saivites by nature. As they believe in a single god, might be we ourselves conclude that they belong to saivism. As they dont have any hatredness, they too simply accepted whatever we said, as they are not much concerned (not at all) with our criticisms.

To Durga Dasan ji : Prof Nara may highly qualified person and he try to bring Vaishna siddhatham to siddhars teachings, it is highly condemble act. Firest one thing siddhars never teached idol worship so on. so those who are willinging to read and enjoy this paddalgals only. s.r.k.
Esarkey ji

I accept with your views. At the sametime, Nara said these things since I needed that clarification. Also, in his very first post in this thread itself he said he has a doubt whether siddhar is refering that (A DOUBT). Thats all. I think now we 3 are clear in this strategy. The forum is here to share the views na Esarkey ji. I expect both of your suggestions forever to refine this thread.

To Durga Dasan ji, சன்மார்கம்க்க்சன்மார்கம் மில்லாத நூல் - தூய்மையான ஞான சன்மார்கம்க்க்சன்மார்கம் மில்லாத நூல் - தூய்மையான ஞான சன்மார்கம்க்க்சன்மார்கம் மில்லாத நூல் - தூய்மையான ஞான Nanerikalai sollatha nul.. s.r.k.
Dear Esarkey ji

The meaning provided by you is OK. My suspicion is whether any other specific meaning present for that... Why am asking this is siddhar consecutively saying that useless religion, useless sacred texts, useless preachers (the word "BODHAGAR") is reminding me some other religion... Hope u got it. Thanks a lot for your info anyhow ji.

Dear Nara
As far as I am concerned, I dont find any fault in that 8 and 2 of your explanation. Siddhars are the people who knows everything.

Dear DD, No problem, I don't think s.r.k understands my position. But I think he will be against it even if he understands my view -- so no problem. For me, Vaishnavam and Kundalini are all the same kind of stuff.

But, I do like the Siddhar poems you are posting. Each poem has what I like to think of as beautiful simplicity. Couple of lines I really liked from #25 and #27 are:

வைதோரைக் கூட வையாதே- இந்த
வையம் முழுதும் பொய்த்தாலும் பொய்யாதே

வேம்பினை உலகில் ஊட்டாதே- உந்தன்
வீராப்பு தன்னை விளங்க நாட்டாதே

I have a question about #28. You have translated the first line of #28, "போற்றும் சடங்கை நண்ணாதே" as "Never criticise the customs and religious acts."

நண்ணு means to approach, seek or follow. So, நண்ணாதே means don't approach or seek. In other words, to my mind, this phrase means don't bother with rituals.

In any case, the poems are a joy to read. Thank you DD for bringing them to this forum. Keep it up.

Respected Nara

You are absolutely correct. But the problem is there are two verses which are going quite opposite, one is "naanaadhe" and other is "nannaadhe". But taking whatever meaning it will be right. The reason is siddhar himself said "POTRUM" so, he himself provides significance to that. In quite opposite meaning, "Dont go near that" is also apt. Because, siddhar people insists much of inner penance than the outer rituals and offerings. So, this is also OK. What you thinks about it? What is your view Esarkey ji about this???

...Because, siddhar people insists much of inner penance than the outer rituals and offerings.

Yes my dear friend DD, this makes a lot more sense. The "poRRi" is probably used to give emphasis that even if the rituals are valued highly, it is better to leave them and go for more meaningful activity that the siddhars are advocating.

After you introduced me to Siddhar poetry, for which I will remain ever grateful to you, I did some research on the net (right now that is all the resource I have, my next visit to India I am going to get me some Siddhar poetry books), and it seems there are some siddhars who were way way outside the orthodoxy.

Let me cite English translations of two verses. How I wish to read to original? It would be wonderful if someone can oblige with the original Tamil.

Where is the pariah woman?
Where is the high-caste woman?
Are there numbers inscribed on the skin and flesh?
Is the pariah woman’s delight different from that of a the high-caste woman?
Analyse the pariah woman and the high-caste woman in you.
(Suryakasypa may take me to task for citing this verse!!)

I found the originals in Tamilnation.org site.

பறைச்சியாவது ஏதடா? பணத்தியாவது ஏதடா?
இறைச்சிதோல் எலும்பினும் இலக்கமிட்டு இருக்குதோ?
பறைச்சிபோகம் வேறதோ பணத்திபோகம் வேறதோ?
பறைச்சியும் பணத்தியும் பகுத்துபாரும் உம்முளே!

Drawn milk doesn’t return to the breast.
Churned butter doesn’t return to the butter-milk.
The broken conch’s sound and the beings don’t re-enter the body.
The blossomed flower and the fallen half-ripe fruit never return to the tree.
The dead are never born. Never, never, never.

கறந்தபால் முலைப்புகா, கடைந்தவெண்ணெய் மோர்புகா;
உடைந்துபோன சங்கின்ஓசை உயிர்களும் உடற்புகா;
விரிந்தபூ உதிர்ந்தகாயும் மீண்டுபோய் மரம்புகா;
இறந்தவர் பிறப்பதில்லை இல்லைஇல்லை இல்லையே.

Another great verse #47, from this great siddhar:
சாதியாவது ஏதடா? சலம்திரண்ட நீரெலாம்
பூதவாசல் ஒன்றலோ, பூதம்ஐந்தும் ஒன்றலோ?
காதில்வாளில், காரை, கம்பி, பாடகம்பொன் ஒன்றலோ?
சாதிபேதம் ஓதுகின்ற தன்மைஎன்ன தன்மையோ?

Wow, this is a treasure I was obliviouly unaware all these days!!!! I cannot thank my friend DD enough for introducing me to this trove.

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To Durgaji, Siddhar says donot go to others performing pooja and rituals because it is their sensual pleasure so dont go their. Nara sir I can understand but your views are always under sensor. s.r.k.
To Durgaji, Siddhar says donot go to others performing pooja and rituals because it is their sensual pleasure so dont go their. Nara sir I can understand but your views are always under sensor. s.r.k.
செப்பரும் பலவித மோகம்- எல்லாம்
சீ என்றொறுத்து திடங்கொள் விவேகம்
ஒப்பரும் அட்டாங்க யோகம்- நன்றாய்
ஒர்ந்தறிவாய் அவற்றுண்மை சம்போகம்

32. எவ்வகையாக நன்னீதி- அவை
எல்லாமறிந்தே எடுத்துநீ போதி
ஒவ்வா வென்ற பலசாதி- யாவும்
ஒன்றென்று அறிந்தே உணர்ந்துரவோதி

31. There are hell a lot of divertions in this world, which cannot be even listed by words. One should have to hate and get rid of all these things and use his supremacy to subtle them. (The word "chee" is used to denote very useless things only. Siddhar here used this term to denote the worldily desires. This shows his highness). Always follows the asthanga yoga (using 8 organs of our body in yogic postures to attain supreme). By doing this continously and in the correct learned manner, the kundalini in the body will get up and reaches the sahasrara and gets unite with the brahmam there (that is the real copulation). The unification of kundalini and the last chakra is considered very important in yogas as when this kundalini hits the last chakra, the elixir within our body will start overflowing thorughout our body and which makes us to keep always in joyous fashion.

32. There will be a lots and lots of judiciaries. Learn and master all these things and also teach them to others. In a manner, provide or suggest a solution in a dharmic way (which was already mentioned as proper justification) to the person in need of. After knowing all these, you will be knowing that though in the outer looks there are so many castes of high and lower values in the society, actually there are no such castes at all. The justice which you give should be common to all. There should not be any partiality just because of caste, as there is no such thing at all (Since all are humanbeings, siddhar people doesn't like this caste system at all).

Dear Nara
Thanks a lot for sharing info. Because, the above verses of kaduveli siddhar is coinciding with your post

பறைச்சியாவது ஏதடா? பணத்தியாவது ஏதடா?
இறைச்சிதோல் எலும்பினும் இலக்கமிட்டு இருக்குதோ?
பறைச்சிபோகம் வேறதோ பணத்திபோகம் வேறதோ?
பறைச்சியும் பணத்தியும் பகுத்துபாரும் உம்முளே!

I think though the forms of siddhars varies, their wavelength will be the same. Nara sir, one real thing is Iam also not familiar of these siddhar songs. This is the first song am reading. I was just impressed. So, side by side am sharing the same with our forum friends also. So, whatever you study and learn about them you just share with me... I wish to be your student always.

Respected Esarkey ji
You are correct. Siddhar people are much much converged in their ideas than diverged like us. Thanks for the suggestion.

கள்ள வேடம் புனையாதே- பல
கங்கையிலே உன் கடன் நனையாதே
கொள்ளை கொள்ள நினையாதே- நட்பு
கொண்டு புரிந்துநீ கோள் முனையாதே

34. எங்கும் சுயப்ரகாசன்- அன்பர்
இன்ப இருதயத்திருந்திடும் வாசன்
துங்க அடியவர் தாசன்- தன்னைத்
துதிக்கிற் பதவி அருளுவான் ஈசன்

33. Never act infront of others. Be always as what you are. Even if you go and take bath in ganges, your sins cannot be washed off. (Siddhar has said here "பலகங்கை), it means even if you go so many heavenly rivers, the sins which we did cannot leave us). Never get desire on others' properties. Dont create diverse feelings among friends. (though in this verse, siddhar has clearly said "natpu kondu kol munaiyadhe", it is a good property which everyone should develop within us; it is certianly notonly with friends, we should avoid the same with everyone). We should not create any bad opinions about others.

34. This verse concludes this sidhhar song.

The god is everywhere. No need to search him outside as he is residing within your heart. He is also ready to serve for the original devotee. If the person (Sadhaka) really submits himself, the god will surely provide him "mukthi" (that is the post refered here by siddhhar).

Dear all
With these verses, the song of "Kaduveli siddhar" comes to a conclusion. I thank everyone who actively participated in this thread and continously supported this.

Soon will come with other siddhar padal.


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