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questions wandering in my head

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How mean :(..... how long did it take you to come up with such a creative acronym?

Sorry little girl! I didn't mean to hurt you dear. Just for fun. You are new to this forum, and so you are hurt.

You do not know to what all animals I was compared to, in this forum. I take it light. There is no other way!

Since you have already given my post in quote, there is no point in deleting my post, though I wish to.

Actually, one of my friends told that my comment might hurt you. How ture! Experience shows...

Best wishes. Mrs. Raji Ram :)
 
You are really on a fishing expedition with this one :)
Trying to scare me, Prof. Sir? I remember the saying, 'பனங்காட்டு நரி சலசலப்புக்கு அஞ்சாது!'

So, I have successfully added one more animal!! :thumb:
 
...i think, raji might not be aware of the patronising insulting insinuation here.......

You are correct Sir! BUT....

என்னைப் போன்ற பாமரர்களுக்கு அறிவொளி வழங்கவே உள்ளது, Google search!!

As Prof said, my 'fishing' expedition has started!

Logging in after a break... Hence the delay in my reply! Regards.........
 

Sorry little girl! I didn't mean to hurt you dear. Just for fun. You are new to this forum, and so you are hurt.

You do not know to what all animals I was compared to, in this forum. I take it light. There is no other way!

Since you have already given my post in quote, there is no point in deleting my post, though I wish to.

Actually, one of my friends told that my comment might hurt you. How ture! Experience shows...

Best wishes. Mrs. Raji Ram :)


No worries buddy : )
 
Shri ctfxc,

Marriage was not supposed to be pure business. But, unfortunately, some unwanted elements of business or profit-making got into marriage, may be from early days even.

Before the present times, when the boys were in great demand in the tabra community, and "dowry" was also rampant, marriage was essentially a means to an end. Two people joined to begin a new "family", bear children and bring them up in the security of a good family; for this purpose, it was expected that both the husband and wife (father and mother of the children) will agree to willingly forego some of their individual rights and freedoms and keep the family as their motto.

But today, due whatever influences we have had during the last few decades, marriage has come to be seen as the culmination of the mating efforts of an adult male and an adult female and there is a concept of "Love" which is kept in very high esteem by all concerned. Marriage today is thus a contract for living together as husband and wife and to enjoy unending conjugal bliss. Children are permitted to be born if and when the couple so wish; if a pregnancy happens without the couple wishing for it, the same can be terminated, subject to certain conditions.

In the latest type of marriages, therefore, the boy and the girl have to evaluate each other according to their expectations of a proper mate, and, in such an evaluation many more things than those you have listed, do become relevant, imo. In this wide world, there will naturally be many candidates satisfying the minimum criteria unless there is some filtering on some basis - like, say, religion, caste, region, nation, language, and so on.


Yes, I understand. I see your point, and agree.

Marriage must have different functions at the micro, meso, and macro levels.

The micro level, as the name suggests includes families, temple groups, schools etc. Humans tend to identify with this level first, and also tend to have a symbiotic relationship with the members of this level of organization. Marriage that abides by the recommendations given by members of the micro level tends to allow this symbiotic (perhaps mutualistic) relationship to remain intact.

The meso level features the community -- each couple married within a community might have a chance to advance the community’s religious rituals, caste, language, morals, values, and culture to the next generation. Because of the formula and the filtering process, the community thrives, and its messages are successfully propagated.

Stable marriages often build the basis for the macro levels of society such as economy, government structure, and religion to thrive. The formula and the filtering process aim to form stable marriage based relationships that allow for children to be brought up in a family where both the mother and father are able to raise and nourish their children properly. These children can then grow up and become productive members of society, and afterwards are perhaps able to support their own families and communities (bringing resources back to the micro level).

This organization makes sense and the formula and the filtering process for marriage are undoubtedly important.

But what about the individual level?

Even after you find a partner with the same religion, caste, cultural background, looks, salary, family background, and education, you may not be in love. The marriage may (at least partly) be just a dutiful commitment and nothing more. And maybe that's all that matters -- maybe it isn't necessary to be in love with who you marry. Maybe we all just really need "someone to open the door when we come home", and "someone to bury us when we die".... Because love, like the human that dies along with it, is mortal.
 
Yes, I understand. I see your point, and agree.

Marriage must have different functions at the micro, meso, and macro levels.

The micro level, as the name suggests includes families, temple groups, schools etc. Humans tend to identify with this level first, and also tend to have a symbiotic relationship with the members of this level of organization. Marriage that abides by the recommendations given by members of the micro level tends to allow this symbiotic (perhaps mutualistic) relationship to remain intact.

The meso level features the community -- each couple married within a community might have a chance to advance the community’s religious rituals, caste, language, morals, values, and culture to the next generation. Because of the formula and the filtering process, the community thrives, and its messages are successfully propagated.

Stable marriages often build the basis for the macro levels of society such as economy, government structure, and religion to thrive. The formula and the filtering process aim to form stable marriage based relationships that allow for children to be brought up in a family where both the mother and father are able to raise and nourish their children properly. These children can then grow up and become productive members of society, and afterwards are perhaps able to support their own families and communities (bringing resources back to the micro level).

This organization makes sense and the formula and the filtering process for marriage are undoubtedly important.

But what about the individual level?

Even after you find a partner with the same religion, caste, cultural background, looks, salary, family background, and education, you may not be in love. The marriage may (at least partly) be just a dutiful commitment and nothing more. And maybe that's all that matters -- maybe it isn't necessary to be in love with who you marry. Maybe we all just really need "someone to open the door when we come home", and "someone to bury us when we die".... Because love, like the human that dies along with it, is mortal.

Dear ctfxc,

I can't agree with you more..Your question - "what about the individual level?" is what every human perhaps achieving, fixing up their mind with the formula. And as you said, and I have stated in my post #2, when formula is met with to the heart content, commitment follows even with out the presence of Love. And as such, you are right to term it as Robotic. As long as this robotic relationship with real commitment didn’t crash to the worst, it is OK to live like that and die one day.


Just some one at home to open the door is not what love is all about. Just burying us after our death is nothing to do with our feelings/emotions that we yearn for when we are alive.

Love should be inbuilt in our emotions to the extent that we would be restless even with the temporary absence of our partner (not just to depend on him/her for any help); to the extent that we won't mind at times appearing our self as dumb/stupid/ignorant etc; to the extent that we would be desperate to do some thing to keep him/her happy; to the extent that we would not consider small small minus points of our partner seriously, as no one is 100% perfect, and let them go; to the extent that we would make sure that he/she been taken care during the most needful time keeping our needs/preferences at the back burner; to the extent that we would like the other person (other than our spouse) just as a good human and would not fall in love with him/her. etc.etc. - "All these without single repentance" To the extent that Love for a person, engrossed in one's emotions would remain immortal in one self even after the partner's demise.

Without all the above true exchange of love, opening the door, closing the door, serving food, burying/lighting our funeral pyre etc.etc. would not give the feeling of happy life with exchange of true love, to the heart content, IMO.

One should be lucky to have true exchange of love and care in one's life.


 
Dear ctfxc,

I can't agree with you more..Your question - "what about the individual level?" is what every human perhaps achieving, fixing up their mind with the formula. And as you said, and I have stated in my post #2, when formula is met with to the heart content, commitment follows even with out the presence of Love. And as such, you are right to term it as Robotic. As long as this robotic relationship with real commitment didn’t crash to the worst, it is OK to live like that and die one day.


Just some one at home to open the door is not what love is all about. Just burying us after our death is nothing to do with our feelings/emotions that we yearn for when we are alive.

Love should be inbuilt in our emotions to the extent that we would be restless even with the temporary absence of our partner (not just to depend on him/her for any help); to the extent that we won't mind at times appearing our self as dumb/stupid/ignorant etc; to the extent that we would be desperate to do some thing to keep him/her happy; to the extent that we would not consider small small minus points of our partner seriously, as no one is 100% perfect, and let them go; to the extent that we would make sure that he/she been taken care during the most needful time keeping our needs/preferences at the back burner; to the extent that we would like the other person (other than our spouse) just as a good human and would not fall in love with him/her. etc.etc. - "All these without single repentance" To the extent that Love for a person, engrossed in one's emotions would remain immortal in one self even after the partner's demise.

Without all the above true exchange of love, opening the door, closing the door, serving food, burying/lighting our funeral pyre etc.etc. would not give the feeling of happy life with exchange of true love, to the heart content, IMO.

One should be lucky to have true exchange of love and care in one's life.




Thank you for sharing this :)
 
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One should be lucky to have true exchange of love and care in one's life.



dear ravi,

this note not addressed to you, though i have quote-borrowed the sentence above from your post. hope you dont mind.

i think this line referring to luck, which i have come to call, 'random', explains everything in life. let me use those two terms interchangeably and see what develops.

for one to find love, one needs luck. no amount of filtering based on caste, creed or status, can guarantee to find love in a marriage. it is easier to consider marriage as an organized venture between two people, with some fuzzy feelings of religiosity for society's comfort.

it is like a waterfall managed business, with one member taking the lead, and providing direction to the organization, based on income, good administration and efficient use of the resources. somewhere there mutual regard, affection and respect develops. but love?

ravi has defined love, and i broadly accept that. but is love a pre requisite for marriage?

can marriage occurs without love? yes. including mine own, i think, all arranged marriages are marriages that start without love. there is no analysis either in the jadhagam or in the discussions, whether there is love. there is only compatibility of the families and agreement of the horoscopes.

once we have entered into that arrangement, i think, some of us may delude ourselves into feelings of love happening or kindling, but i dont believe it to be true.

if you want marriage badly, dont look for love.look for compatibility to running an household.

has anyone experienced a teenager in love. it is a crazy crazy person we see, always on the phone, unwashed or superbly clean, reaching highs of happiness and willing to drop everything else in the world for his beloved. that, to me, is love. i do not know, whether any arranged husband would ever feel like that to his wife. or vice versa. we miss our spouses, we depend on our spouses, we consult our spouses, we lean on our spouses and finally we part from our spouses. but all without the feeling, that can be called love.

should youngsters wait for love to happen before they marry. it is an answer that they themselves can only answer. all i can say, love is not a pre requisite to a good marriage. in fact there is no guarantee of a good marriage with love. or without love. it is all random.

or as ravi says, one has to be extremely lucky to find love. and even more lucky to find love and good marriage.

i wish the unmarried ones here to luck in. best wishes :)

ps. i am sure many arranged married folks, would disagree with me, and insist that they 'love' their spouses. if they could verbalize their feelings of love, i would think, it would translate more along the lines of mutual respect, affection and regard. not the love that your teenager experiences. to me, that is 'true love'. :)
 
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Dear Kunjuppu,

You wrote
i am sure many arranged married folks, would disagree with me, and insist that they 'love' their spouses. if they could verbalize their feelings of love, i would think, it would translate more along the lines of mutual respect, affection and regard. not the love that your teenager experiences. to me, that is 'true love'.

Its hard to say but surely feelings of attraction has to be there before we consent to marry anyone in an arranged marriage.
I remember when I was younger an unmarried my father was getting anxious that I was saying No to most of the proposals till he scolded me one day saying "what do you think of yourself?do you think you are a miss universe to refuse all proposals that come?"

See for my dad..he was thinking that as long the prospective groom was a professional,didnt drink/smoke,was from a good family and horoscopes matched it should be fine.

I was suprised that my dad who had an intercaste,interstate love marriage didnt take into consideration the physical attraction to have the giddy feeling of love when we want to marry someone.

So finally I told him.."I have to spend the rest of my life with someone and I cant imagine sharing it with someone I didnt have physical attraction..it would be a torture for me..I hope you understand what I mean cos I cant get more explicit than this"

But as I grew older I feel love is basically our innate nature and its more on grounds of mutual respect,affection,duty and norms of society people stay married.

At the age of 41..if you ask me what is Love..my answer will be I dont really know but I can still safely say I am happy with myself.

I always feel each one of us are bar coded at birth and we have the Date of Expiry printed on us.
When even the human body is subject to growth,disease,decay death does anyone really think any human relationship is not subject to the above?

Life changes..even Love changes but if we do our duty we are equipoised and thats what the Game of Life is all about.
 
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ravi has defined love, and i broadly accept that. but is love a pre requisite for marriage?

once we have entered into that arrangement, i think, some of us may delude ourselves into feelings of love happening or kindling, but i dont believe it to be true.

if you want marriage badly, dont look for love.look for compatibility to running an household.

has anyone experienced a teenager in love. it is a crazy crazy person we see, always on the phone, unwashed or superbly clean, reaching highs of happiness and willing to drop everything else in the world for his beloved. that, to me, is love. i do not know, whether any arranged husband would ever feel like that to his wife. or vice versa. we miss our spouses, we depend on our spouses, we consult our spouses, we lean on our spouses and finally we part from our spouses. but all without the feeling, that can be called love.

should youngsters wait for love to happen before they marry. it is an answer that they themselves can only answer. all i can say, love is not a pre requisite to a good marriage. in fact there is no guarantee of a good marriage with love. or without love. it is all random.

or as ravi says, one has to be extremely lucky to find love. and even more lucky to find love and good marriage.

i wish the unmarried ones here to luck in. best wishes :)

ps. i am sure many arranged married folks, would disagree with me, and insist that they 'love' their spouses. if they could verbalize their feelings of love, i would think, it would translate more along the lines of mutual respect, affection and regard. not the love that your teenager experiences. to me, that is 'true love'. :)


Shri Kunjuppu,

Offcourse Love is not must for marriage to happen. I very much believe in start of Love after marriage.

My definition of love was not just the love that persists between couples who loved each other and than married. My definition of love was all about couples in marriage, irrespective of their love marriage or arranged marriage.

The Love is a feel of heart and it's genuine expressions with respect, affection and regard to the other. That should be prevailing between the couples with natural feel of true love in heart rather with natural mental intellect that would often look forward to act and react based on what one needs for oneself.

Love of the teenager's are nothing but dreams and passion. A sort of crazyness that can not see beyond imaginations and get to know the reality. In most of the cases it is mere desires to acquire body pleasures of any sort. Love based on physical attractions, out of desires, to be contentend with beauty of the body and the pride that it brings in to one in one's social circle etc. is not True LOVE, as per my strong opinion.

100% physically campatible, beautiful couples necessarily do not mean the existence of heart felt love, care, affection between the couples.

So far in my life, I have come across cases of many kinds of love, marriage, love marriage and arranged marriage

1) A boy and girl after being in LOVE for a year or more have broke up. Either due some strong misunderstandings between them OR all of sudden they got enlightment and could see that their marriage would go against the formula and would turn out to be sensless.


2) A boy and girl after being in LOVE for long, successfully got married, perhaps finding each other, mentally and emotionally compatible and accommodative. But, after couple of years of marriage got into terrible friction and got seperated. Some got united after a gap of 2 or 3 years and some never.


3) As far as couples with arranged marriages are concerned and those who had love marriages too, either they are continuing the life with sharing true love, care and affection from their heart, for the spouse or just living their life to fulfill their duties and responsibitlity in a robotic manner, and die one day, ensuring they were not the reason for their family to get scatterd and made the children to suffer.


People who are married purely based on formula (as indicated by Ms.cftxc in her OP) may or may not be lucky to enjoy true exchange of heart felt love (that I have stated in my post #61).

At the same time, people who married purely based on mental and emotional compatibility/accommodativeness and that of heart felt love, may or may not be happy with their non formula based choice of pairing for life.

In net shall, lucky are the couples (of love / arranged marriage) who could ever be happy with the presence and interactions with each other, with love, care, compassion, affection, respect, compromises etc with each other ever till the death, irrespective of what they gained and what they lost in their life of failures, success, excellence, constraints, disappointments, struggles, emotional disturbances, issues arising due children etc.etc.
 
1) At the age of 41..if you ask me what is Love..my answer will be I dont really know but I can still safely say I am happy with myself.

2) I always feel each one of us are bar coded at birth and we have the Date of Expiry printed on us.
When even the human body is subject to growth,disease,decay death does anyone really think any human relationship is not subject to the above?

3) Life changes..even Love changes but if we do our duty we are equipoised and thats what the Game of Life is all about.

Dear Renuka,

I am quoting the above statements of your post #65, just as a subject matter to ponder. Nothing to do with disputing with your opinion, knowledge and experience as a married lady.

Hope you will mistake me..


I have pointed your statments as 1,2, & 3, above and have presented my views below in correlation -


1) LOVE - Loving onself is not uncommon unless one is depressed to the extent of hating onself. They require anti depressant to treat them and let them live their life with self respect and dignity, loving oneself. In marriage when we talk about LOVE, it is all about the exchange of True Love between husband and wife. It is about whether we could establish such Love in a marriage in real life, living day to day and what we feel from time to time.

When you say that - "I don't really know what is Love, but can still safely say I am happy with myself", I could not understand it's relevancy with the analysis of "love between couples" in this thread.


2) Yes, humans are subjected to growth, disease, decay and death. But I don't think that, it necessarily need to be the same with respect to exchange of love, care, affection, respect etc between two humans. We are Humans and not Robots. Whatever happens to our physical body got nothing to do with our emotions. A sixty year aged person can feel young at heart and a 30 year old person may feel old at heart, depending upon what a person have experienced, percieved and going through in one's life. Growth, disease, decay and death of physical body is robotic but human feelings and emotions can not be as such. It just matters what one believes in and could live upto.


3) Yes, Life changes..Life in total is full of uncertainities for almost all of us. We just strive for better with proper planning, hardwork and determinations. But, life can take its different way any time beyond our control. But a true love need not to change necessarily. Yes, commitment and duty is must and that may be out of persisting love or just as responsibilities.


Lucky are the couples who share commitment and duty not just out of responsibilities alone but also exchanging true, love, care, affection, respect etc between them.







 
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Dear Renuka,

I am quoting the above statements of your post #65, just as a subject matter to ponder. Nothing to do with disputing with your opinion, knowledge and experience as a married lady.

Hope you will mistake me..


I have pointed your statments as 1,2, & 3, above and have presented my views below in correlation -


1) LOVE - Loving onself is not uncommon unless one is depressed to the extent of hating onself. They require anti depressant to treat them and let them live their life with self respect and dignity, loving oneself. In marriage when we talk about LOVE, it is all about the exchange of True Love between husband and wife. It is about whether we could establish such Love in a marriage in real life, living day to day and what we feel from time to time.

When you say that - "I don't really know what is Love, but can still safely say I am happy with myself", I could not understand it's relevancy with the analysis of "love between couples" in this thread.


2) Yes, humans are subjected to growth, disease, decay and death. But I don't think that, it necessarily need to be the same with respect to exchange of love, care, affection, respect etc between two humans. We are Humans and not Robots. Whatever happens to our physical body got nothing to do with our emotions. A sixty year aged person can feel young at heart and a 30 year old person may feel old at heart, depending upon what a person have experienced, percieved and going through in one's life. Growth, disease, decay and death of physical body is robotic but human feelings and emotions can not be as such. It just matters what one believes in and could live upto.


3) Yes, Life changes..Life in total is full of uncertainities for almost all of us. We just strive for better with proper planning, hardwork and determinations. But, life can take its different way any time beyond our control. But a true love need not to change necessarily. Yes, commitment and duty is must and that may be out of persisting love or just as responsibilities.


Lucky are the couples who share commitment and duty not just out of responsibilities alone but also exchanging true, love, care, affection, respect etc between them.









Dear Ravi,

Dont worry I wont mistake you but may be I will share my thinking here with you for you to fully understand why I wrote point No 1,2 and 3.
To tell you truth I always have a "insecure" feeling that everything wont last forever so I always kind of hold back getting too involved in many matters in my life.
Even when I am very happy there will be a reminder in my brain that someone else in this world could be crying now so dont get too excited.

Dont think that I got this feeling after reading Advaita but it was there even as a child whenever my mother gave me any tasty dish to eat I will only eat a little and she would ask me why I am not eating more and I will tell her that I feel a bit guilty that some other child might not be having food so I wont want to enjoy too much.

I have even woken up my mum on cold nights telling her that I have a blanket and what about some cold person who has no blanket?
My mum used to tell me..you are entitled to enjoy what you have and dont deprive yourself from what you deserve.

I guess that thinking has sort of stuck to my mind and since I became a Doc I have seen life and death so often that I always have a feeling that nothing really last so just live without getting too involved.

I know Love is not False but this is how I really am.
 
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But as I grew older I feel love is basically our innate nature and its more on grounds of mutual respect,affection,duty and norms of society people stay married.

At the age of 41..if you ask me what is Love..my answer will be I dont really know but I can still safely say I am happy with myself.

Life changes..even Love changes but if we do our duty we are equipoised and thats what the Game of Life is all about.

Typical Renuka style, beautifully written. Amazing insight at such young age.
It is my sentiment, the word love is overrated because of movies. I do agree there is a physical attraction part, a very important part, but a transient part. Otherwise we would have to part ways as we age and/or change shape.
 
Dear Ravi,

Dont worry I wont mistake you but may be I will share my thinking here with you for you to fully understand why I wrote point No 1,2 and 3.
To tell you truth I always have a "insecure" feeling that everything wont last forever so I always kind of hold back getting too involved in many matters in my life.
Even when I am very happy there will be a reminder in my brain that someone else in this world could be crying now so dont get too excited.

Dont think that I got this feeling after reading Advaita but it was there even as a child whenever my mother gave me any tasty dish to eat I will only eat a little and she would ask me why I am not eating more and I will tell her that I feel a bit guilty that some other child might not be having food so I wont want to enjoy too much.

I have even woken up my mum on cold nights telling her that I have a blanket and what about some cold person who has no blanket?
My mum used to tell me..you are entitled to enjoy what you have and dont deprive yourself from what you deserve.

I guess that thinking has sort of stuck to my mind and since I became a Doc I have seen life and death so often that I always have a feeling that nothing really last so just live without getting too involved.

I know Love is not False but this is how I really am.

I'm like this too at times. When I am very happy, sometimes in the back of my mind I think... this happiness is not permanent, and as you said "someone else in this world could be crying now so dont get too excited." maybe it's a result of general anxiety? I'm not sure. worrying about it is not good but maybe understanding it is important.
 
ps. i am sure many arranged married folks, would disagree with me, and insist that they 'love' their spouses. if they could verbalize their feelings of love, i would think, it would translate more along the lines of mutual respect, affection and regard. not the love that your teenager experiences. to me, that is 'true love'.


What is the definition of True love, without respect, or affection?
'young' are still giddy with infatuation, let them go through couple of challenging situation, they too will come down to earth. Most of the so called young people have unreasonable expectation of life, and have to have a psychiatrists on call.


Like Renuka said in her post, one has to learn to live within their limitation, and be thankful with what they are blessed with. Otherwise they will be miserable and make others miserable too.
 
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I'm like this too at times. When I am very happy, sometimes in the back of my mind I think... this happiness is not permanent, and as you said "someone else in this world could be crying now so dont get too excited." maybe it's a result of general anxiety? I'm not sure. worrying about it is not good but maybe understanding it is important.

Its not really anxiety but just a gentle reminder that doesnt make anyone worry acutely but rather live in reality and in moderation.
I am starting to wonder if you and I share the same Zodiac.Librans are famous for this sort of thinking!!LOL
 
I'm like this too at times. When I am very happy, sometimes in the back of my mind I think... this happiness is not permanent, and as you said "someone else in this world could be crying now so dont get too excited." maybe it's a result of general anxiety? I'm not sure. worrying about it is not good but maybe understanding it is important.

Yes, "someone else in this world could be crying now so don't get too excited" maybe it's a result of general anxiety, IMO.

Live to the fullest your life with all your true feelings and emotions, sharing with your partner. We don't know when we will be striked with adversities and have to cry. So be a normal human, enjoy your life, share yourself in total with our partner and keep your heart and mind pure in your relationship. But, have the good idea of what the life is all about, what the other people are going through, what are the complications of life, what is the human psychology, what people need in personal level etc...


We as humans need some one to love us, accept us the way we are, show how we feel of the person, give attention, give care, show the warmth of love and sense of importance. Try to understand that you are a human and so is your partner. And never take for granted that your partner is happy with the way you are. Often discuss openly with friendliness, accept your faults, seek apology and get along with the charm of relationship and family.


If your partner is not the way you are, never mind. Individuality differs. But, you maintain your personality and live upto it. Your partner may love you but may not be expressing in some way. As long as he/she is a good person, keep up your self and be as you are.

For many life is tough. The practical, real life tend to take away the charm of relationship. That's the fact. So, try to pause for a moment now and than and rejuvinate your relationship and enjoy each of the pleasurable moment. We don't know what the future holds and how it will unfold. So, be aware of the sufferings of life in general and be considerate to others who have suffering/issues. But live your life to the fullest as it offers, sharing with your partner.





 
without comments

Lessons for our daughters sons.jpg
 
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