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Prayer Is Useless, and Has a Downside

renuka

Well-known member
Some more Mumbo Jumbo. Love has an attachment.
Prasad ji...


I fail to understand why you are not comfortable with the fact that others pray or beg God or make transactions?
Isnt that perfectly allowed by culture?

I guess you should be able to accept that and live and let live.
If the act of prayers of others trouble you so much..may be you should start to wonder why.

At some stage in life we would realize that there are really no right or wrong.

You say you follow Advaita..yet the word Advaita can exists without depending on the word Dvaita.

Non-Dual..it needs to lean on the word Dual even to express itself.
Think about it.

Surprisingly Arabic has a word for Non Dual without depending on the usage of the word Dual.

Its Tawheed..and it means "Oneness"

If I would try to coin a Sanskrit word the closest I can think is Ekatvam.

So lets apply the term Ekatvam for the understanding of Brahman.

If you are in a state of Ekatvam you would see the same Oneness in every act another does..be it bhajan..arti..pooja etc.
If you are rejecting it as " untruth" then you are indeed purely dualistic.

Ever thought why?
 

prasad1

Well-known member
Prasad ji...


I fail to understand why you are not comfortable with the fact that others pray or beg God or make transactions?
Isnt that perfectly allowed by culture?

I guess you should be able to accept that and live and let live.
If the act of prayers of others trouble you so much..may be you should start to wonder why.

At some stage in life we would realize that there are really no right or wrong.

You say you follow Advaita..yet the word Advaita can exists without depending on the word Dvaita.

Non-Dual..it needs to lean on the word Dual even to express itself.
Think about it.

Surprisingly Arabic has a word for Non Dual without depending on the usage of the word Dual.

Its Tawheed..and it means "Oneness"

If I would try to coin a Sanskrit word the closest I can think is Ekatvam.

So lets apply the term Ekatvam for the understanding of Brahman.

If you are in a state of Ekatvam you would see the same Oneness in every act another does..be it bhajan..arti..pooja etc.
If you are rejecting it as " untruth" then you are indeed purely dualistic.

Ever thought why?
I accept it and contribute to it. I arrange for my family (brothers and sisters) to visit various Temples.

It does not mean that I have to believe in it. In the forum on an anonymous poster, I can vent my true feeling.

I hate to see people waste their money on anything, I do not correct everyone, but if people ask my opinion I do share it. Sometimes they are grateful for it.
Similarly, I am not ashamed of asking for help.

I am not sure that I am a dualist or Non-dualist. I have lost faith in an activist god.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
hi

how prayer works.......visit lord shiva temple on PRADHOSHAM DAY in tamil nadu....you will get answer..

last 5 yrs back....not much rush on pradhosham.....now go to any shiva temple....sometimes i have to wait

for more than 5 hours in line.....
I have been there and done it, but no more.
 

renuka

Well-known member
I accept it and contribute to it. I arrange for my family (brothers and sisters) to visit various Temples.

It does not mean that I have to believe in it. In the forum on an anonymous poster, I can vent my true feeling.

I hate to see people waste their money on anything, I do not correct everyone, but if people ask my opinion I do share it. Sometimes they are grateful for it.
Similarly, I am not ashamed of asking for help.

I am not sure that I am a dualist or Non-dualist. I have lost faith in an activist god.
Its good that you lost faith.
Most true transformations start when one loses faith in everything they previously knew.

So you could be embarking on a new journey soon.

Majority might label a person who has lost faith as " lost"..but in reality..only one who is " lost" will strive..and he who strives verily finds...Man Jadda Wajada(he who strives verily finds).

Best of luck.
 

tbs

Well-known member
Prasad ji...


I fail to understand why you are not comfortable with the fact that others pray or beg God or make transactions?
Isnt that perfectly allowed by culture?

I guess you should be able to accept that and live and let live.
If the act of prayers of others trouble you so much..may be you should start to wonder why.

At some stage in life we would realize that there are really no right or wrong.

You say you follow Advaita..yet the word Advaita can exists without depending on the word Dvaita.

Non-Dual..it needs to lean on the word Dual even to express itself.
Think about it.


Surprisingly Arabic has a word for Non Dual without depending on the usage of the word Dual.

Its Tawheed..and it means "Oneness"

If I would try to coin a Sanskrit word the closest I can think is Ekatvam.

So lets apply the term Ekatvam for the understanding of Brahman.

If you are in a state of Ekatvam you would see the same Oneness in every act another does..be it bhajan..arti..pooja etc.
If you are rejecting it as " untruth" then you are indeed purely dualistic.

Ever thought why?
hi

well said....even ADVAITA IS ANIRVACHANEEYAM.....means can't comprehensible/unexplicable...
 

a-TB

Well-known member
The idea of God, master of the universe, that intervenes at the plea of prayer is logically not possible. Natures laws are always true and does not make exceptions. Mr Sangom made such cases more forcefully and I agree with his views

It is one thing for a scripture to teach right behavior for peace and harmony. It is another thing for that God to intervene and lay out laws via some messenger as to how life has to be lived. These conflict with other beliefs and even conflict with laws of state.

All these beliefs driven by religions of the world are the cause of major wars and destruction.

I have no issues with Bhakthi as described in the Bhaja Govindam thread to the extent I understand.
 

Subri

New member
I am a firm believer in Brahman, Advaita philosophy.
I am a member of Chinmaya Mission and past chairman of the Hindu Temple.
I used to debate with Mr. Sangom, (who I respected for his knowledge) when he used to claim that he was a nastika.

This post is not anti-Hinduism alone, as this charade is practiced across all religions.



While the main purpose of prayer may be to help others, it never demonstrably does that. Prayers benefit only those believers who say or hear them. Prayer gives them comfort. It lets them think they have some control over a situation that may be out of their hands. It’s the last resort of people who have run out of ideas, and the first resort of people who never bothered to think about how they could actually fix the problem at hand.This is not harmless. There’s a very real downside to praying. It lulls believers into a false sense of accomplishment. We cannot solve our problems – much less the world’s – through prayer. We often see people with good intentions praying for victims in the wake of a tragedy, but prayer is useless without action, and those actions make the prayers irrelevant. To paraphrase the great Robert Green Ingersoll, hands that help are far better than lips that pray.

I have no problem with “prayer” as an act of meditation. In fact, many atheists can tell you the benefit of silent self-reflection. The delusion occurs when you think someone else is hearing your thoughts and acting on them.

When it comes down to it, prayer is illogical, even in religious terms. If God has a plan, why try to thwart it? If God can be swayed by prayers, what kind of God would allow the horrors we see in the world? And if two devout believers pray for different things, how does God choose the winner? (I'm sure the San Antonio Spurs would love to know the answer to that.)

Prayer is nothing but a powerful placebo. We’d all be better off accepting that.

I fully agree that We need to know who we are And who is God to whom we are praying and the relationship that exists between the two to get the full benefits of prayer.
It is impossible to deny the power of prayers and results are proportional to the faith the subject brings to the table. Now, faith itself is pooh pooches by the intelligentsia as a tool of the week and lazy. But matter of fact Faith is such a powerful instrument that it takes a lot of work to develop it.

I simply could not pray despite knowing its value as long as I did not know the answers to the questions I listed above. Now I enjoy my prayers. Not only that. The quality of my demands has tremendously transformed. I'm now praying more for the intangible gifts such as humility and love. I'm instantly replied to with a powerful dash of love. Would you believe. Everyone can and should do it.
 

renuka

Well-known member
I fully agree that We need to know who we are And who is God to whom we are praying and the relationship that exists between the two to get the full benefits of prayer.
It is impossible to deny the power of prayers and results are proportional to the faith the subject brings to the table. Now, faith itself is pooh pooches by the intelligentsia as a tool of the week and lazy. But matter of fact Faith is such a powerful instrument that it takes a lot of work to develop it.

I simply could not pray despite knowing its value as long as I did not know the answers to the questions I listed above. Now I enjoy my prayers. Not only that. The quality of my demands has tremendously transformed. I'm now praying more for the intangible gifts such as humility and love. I'm instantly replied to with a powerful dash of love. Would you believe. Everyone can and should do it.
I too once upon a time seeked answers but only when I didnt have questions i actually started to pray.
I dont ask anything but just accept what is destined for me.
 

Vedavyasa

Member
I am a firm believer in Brahman, Advaita philosophy.
I am a member of Chinmaya Mission and past chairman of the Hindu Temple.
I used to debate with Mr. Sangom, (who I respected for his knowledge) when he used to claim that he was a nastika.

This post is not anti-Hinduism alone, as this charade is practiced across all religions.



While the main purpose of prayer may be to help others, it never demonstrably does that. Prayers benefit only those believers who say or hear them. Prayer gives them comfort. It lets them think they have some control over a situation that may be out of their hands. It’s the last resort of people who have run out of ideas, and the first resort of people who never bothered to think about how they could actually fix the problem at hand.This is not harmless. There’s a very real downside to praying. It lulls believers into a false sense of accomplishment. We cannot solve our problems – much less the world’s – through prayer. We often see people with good intentions praying for victims in the wake of a tragedy, but prayer is useless without action, and those actions make the prayers irrelevant. To paraphrase the great Robert Green Ingersoll, hands that help are far better than lips that pray.

I have no problem with “prayer” as an act of meditation. In fact, many atheists can tell you the benefit of silent self-reflection. The delusion occurs when you think someone else is hearing your thoughts and acting on them.

When it comes down to it, prayer is illogical, even in religious terms. If God has a plan, why try to thwart it? If God can be swayed by prayers, what kind of God would allow the horrors we see in the world? And if two devout believers pray for different things, how does God choose the winner? (I'm sure the San Antonio Spurs would love to know the answer to that.)

Prayer is nothing but a powerful placebo. We’d all be better off accepting that.

Even if it is a placebo, it is the best alternative when you feel helpless. No use in quoting Ingersol or any other athiests. It is often said "More things are wrought by prayer"
 

a-TB

Well-known member
I too once upon a time seeked answers but only when I didnt have questions i actually started to pray.
I dont ask anything but just accept what is destined for me.
There is no destiny - it is imaginations of religion - contribution of Islam
There is no free will either - Imagination of religion - contribution of Christianity

Just be in the present moment - no need to worry or accept anything
 

prasad1

Well-known member
Even if it is a placebo, it is the best alternative when you feel helpless. No use in quoting Ingersol or any other athiests. It is often said "More things are wrought by prayer"
I am not arguing against prayer for self-satisfaction.
What I am saying is that prayer for more material benefits, Health, world pease, etc.
 

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