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Missionaries are to Blame

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ShivKC

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Christian education system has erased lot of Indian value system and culture and the first victim is Sanskrit.Political Christianity formed a special clique, finding their ideal in real estate, education, health industry & media. Above all,most frightening are the bogus intellectuals (we find few in this forum too), journalists and armchair academicians, who at the helm of this Christian invasion, try to force insidious and deeply harmful Christian dogma upon the throats of Hindus under the name of mindless universalism and human rights. These pseudo secular leaders smug their attitudes as they ridicule us of our spiritual values and culture. If a muslim can, then what is wrong if a hindu-tribal has many wives? Why we still follow the British law of ten commandments?
 

kunjuppu

Active member
Sri Kunjuppu ji,

I am not suggesting that we should implement Singapore system blindly. But the systems works beautifully where no body is a failure at the end of the day.

In the Indian system of education, there is tremendous flaw in imparting knowledge to the students.

Our students in the school are mostly from fishermen community where the parents are totally illiterate without any basic knowledge to guide their children. It is our responsibility to guide the students with proper education.

The students are carried away by the `English Medium' euphoria which is totally unwarranted. Any well developed non-English speaking country imparts education only in their respective mother tongue and not in English. There are any number of examples like Germany, France, Japan, China etc. It is better to start education in their mother tongue rather than in a foreign language. There is a proverb in Tamil ` எண்ணும் எழுத்தும் கண்ணென தகும்'. If a student first learns to read and write in his own mother tongue along with simple arithmetics, it is a great asset to him for the rest of his life. But due to Missionary influence in the education, everybody including a fisherman community student is opting only for English Medium education.

If a student particularly hailing from an illiterate family studies in his own mother tongue up-to say 5th standard, he can fully learn to read and write in his mother tongue apart from learning simple arithmetics without much of a problem. By imposing a foreign language, he is unable to cope up with the subjects and ultimately fails.

May be from 6th standard onwards he can be put into more serious study in Science and Maths subjects apart from little bit of history and geography. Even here we can adopt single language forumulae, i.e. mother tongue alone. May be from 9th standard onwards, English could be introduced as additional language.

But missionary influence has spoiled the whole system by introducing English language from primary levels and every thing looks to the student as foreign.

Instead of giving more importance to Examinations, there could be more emphasis on knowledge, aptitude etc. so that no student fails at the end of the day.

Government of India through Central Board of Secondary Education is advocating three language formulae, i.e English, Hindi and mother tongue.

Tamilnadu Government is advocating two language formulae.

If a person masters his mother tongue, he can pick up any number of languages at a later stage. Unfortunately nobody advocates single language formula i.e Mother Tongue alone.

Missionaries have to be squarely blamed for influencing every body to learn English language first.

I am not suggesting `Kula Kalvi Thittam'. I am not advocating the school to teach `fishing' to all the fishermen community children. At the same time, if they cannot pick up formal education in a big way, they can start picking up some skills from ninth standard onwards. Final decision on their career could be done even after school final i.e. 12 th standards. This way, nobody will be a failure and every body will succeed in at least one skill.

Today a mason or carpenter or electrician within India itself commands better respect in the society as compared to olden days. There is a huge opportunity to migrate to Gulf or Singapore and make a big fortune in life.

Macaulay education system which is being advocated by the missionaries is preventing to impart skill based education and deny all these opportunities to potential students.

It is very difficult to change the system as it has polluted the minds of almost all Indians.

All the best

thank you RVR.

please be kind enough to treat whatever i write to you, more as a feedback, and definitely not as critique or criticism. the english language has its limitations, and add to that mine own, and well intentioned posts could be misconstrued.

i admire your initiative and God Bless for it to fructify into a useful and productive organization. i can understand the amount of work involved, not only in money but in time and personal effort as well. also, i am aware, sitting far away, continents away, it is easy for me to type a few words of banality.

but your actions, ofcourse speak louder than any of my words. i am keenly aware of it.

as you always say, 'All the Best'.

thank you.
 

kunjuppu

Active member
sangom,

was it not sir c.p. ramaswami iyer, when he was the dewan of travancore-cochin, who encouraged dalits to convert to christianity?

i have heard stories in my youth about adults discussing this. already in the fifties, these sons & daughters of dalits, were moving up economically and socially. this upward mobility was not only resented by pattars, but by other kerala groups like nairs and syrian christians (mar thoma).

now it is about close to 100 years since sir c.p.'s dewanship, and i presume that the fourth or fifth generation of those converts are part of the malayali establishment?

i also used to hear, that sir c.p. invoked mixed feelings among pattars, as he was in many ways a progressive, and challenged the erstwhile establishment. but no where did he bring out such deep intensity of hatred (still prevalent among the 70 & 80 year old). that was reserved for v.r.krishna ayyar, for implementing those land reforms. pattars were among the biggest losers there.

thanks again.

some feedback? thank you.
 
sangom,

was it not sir c.p. ramaswami iyer, when he was the dewan of travancore-cochin, who encouraged dalits to convert to christianity?

i have heard stories in my youth about adults discussing this. already in the fifties, these sons & daughters of dalits, were moving up economically and socially. this upward mobility was not only resented by pattars, but by other kerala groups like nairs and syrian christians (mar thoma).

now it is about close to 100 years since sir c.p.'s dewanship, and i presume that the fourth or fifth generation of those converts are part of the malayali establishment?

My knowledge is second hand, heard from old timers who, I believe, were objective. cp was all for development and progress of the 'kingdom' in the way he thought best. In tune with the british policy of those times, he created more and more schools (not english medium, of course). Universal education was started much earlier but Maharaja Moolam Thirunal Rama Varma (1885–1924) started free primary education to the lower castes. Successsive rulers right from the time of Regent Rani Parvati Bai (1814-1829) had done much for the spread of education - both traditional and English. cp also continued this. I have not heard about cp giving any undue support for the dalits alone; but somehow because the Royalty was in favour of every one getting educated this system came to stay.

Caste did play its role even when I joined the primary school. Since it was free for all castes, it was compulsory that I take bath before entering the house on return from school! There were many other related taboos and all. Actually one member in this forum tried to mock at me when I said, now, in my 70th. year, how I knew that my primary school teachers were dalit christians. As you may be aware, it was the norm to add the caste name to proper name in many cases, like தண்டான் கேசவன் (the man who used to climb the coconut trees-I still remember his name), ...சோவன், etc. It was as much necessary to teach a child about caste differences those days as to teach fish to swim.

Of course, the higher castes viewed the trend in education of the lower castes with suspicion. Their misgivings (?) were that the entire labour will become recalcitrant and the economic fabric of the society will be at stake. It was true as things have turned out now. Brahmins and Nairs were less powerful in controlling the lower castes than the higher caste christians who had the powerful backing of the church for keeping the converted christians from dalits under discipline. I do not know how exactly they did it, but one method was the threat of expulsion from the church; the unconverted dalits did not welcome the return of the "maargam kooDiyavar" (those who joined the path - of Christ) to the old fold.

i also used to hear, that sir c.p. invoked mixed feelings among pattars, as he was in many ways a progressive, and challenged the erstwhile establishment. but no where did he bring out such deep intensity of hatred (still prevalent among the 70 & 80 year old). that was reserved for v.r.krishna ayyar, for implementing those land reforms. pattars were among the biggest losers there.
cp as I heard was so very close to the queen mother, that some stories are also there. This was not approved by a section of the brahmins. Most brahmins did not bother so long as their (brahmins') interests were safe. These conflicting views must have spread on to Palghat also.

vrk was instrumental in devastating the brahmins' and other higher castes in one deadly swipe and naturally tambrams do not have anything good to say about him. He now talks about vedanta, meeting the spirit of his wife through a medium, and criticizes cpm itself but whether he rues his past we don't know.
 
Sow. Amala,

Greetings. It is so nice to hear from you after a long interval. I hope to hear from you more often, please.

Hindus have not gone wrong per se. Hinduism has her weakness for a very long time; the missionaries are exploiting them. The whole thing is politicised anyway. In my opinion, commen person at the grass root level hasn't much control over these matters.

Cheers!
 
H

hoover

Guest
In my view Christian missionaries have nothing to blem. We are becoming more and more convictionless. we ask questions about everything in our Dharam and validity of it. ( In fact ones father is also a blind belief if thinking in that way as noone varifies it through dna test.). Thanks to a large number of Charvakas present among us.
It was a popular fashion in past to crticise hinduism to get exposure as an reformist or liberal, today it is practices as an political bussiness. and elite Brahmin in particular are flagbearers.
I have mentioned somewhere in this forum. That due to intellectual confusion, convictionlessness increases (also denyle of commen sense.) and these convictionless people fall pray to those who have commen sense and strong convictions. there remains two choices either choose, convictions which proposes peace (Brahminism) or convictions which stand for just sake of conviction.
foreign residing brahmin will also have to face in future the effects of convictiionlessness which they aquired due to influence of Charvaka.
sri RVR sir,
your point is true,
it is not wise to try to make everyone an IAS or a doctor, an evaluation of qualities and interests at proper age and then education or training according to that is needed. second I am lured to mention here that our govt. totally neglected bussiness as an mean of upliftment of so called underpriviledged. I know a number of OBCs who left their respective proffessions as tailoring and barber etc. in quest for a govt. job. they landed nowhere but in desperarion and their classmates, who were underachieving in academics and so insulted by society as imbesiles are hoarding money just continuing in their professions. they are now living lifestyle which we call upper middle class. and they have one thing at their disposal i.e. a job ready for their coming generarions. services can not be handed over to next generation.
 
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RVR

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In my view Christian missionaries have nothing to blem. We are becoming more and more convictionless. we ask questions about everything in our Dharam and validity of it. ( In fact ones father is also a blind belief if thinking in that way as noone varifies it through dna test.). Thanks to a large number of Charvakas present among us.
It was a popular fashion in past to crticise hinduism to get exposure as an reformist or liberal, today it is practices as an political bussiness. and elite Brahmin in particular are flagbearers.
I have mentioned somewhere in this forum. That due to intellectual confusion, convictionlessness increases (also denyle of commen sense.) and these convictionless people fall pray to those who have commen sense and strong convictions. there remains two choices either choose, convictions which proposes peace (Brahminism) or convictions which stand for just sake of conviction.
foreign residing brahmin will also have to face in future the effects of convictiionlessness which they aquired due to influence of Charvaka.

Hoovar,

Our way of life is totally different from other religions.

We have multiple schools of thought as compared to the above religions just focusing single school of thought. We have four Vedhas and multiple number of Upanshads. There are millions of other books which no body can master in a single life.

Our literature is in multiple languages written thousands of years back. For example Ramayana is written in multiple languages and there are differences in contents. One of my Tamil Professor Pulavar Thirumeni wrote a book long back `கம்பருக்கு கதை கொடுத்தவர் வான்மீகரா?' (Whether Kambar obtained Ramayana Story from Vaalmiki?)
I don't have copy of the book but the author has made lot of points to prove that Kambar wrote Ramayana independently.

Again within the Ramayana story, lot of debates are going on even today as to `Who is correct - Kumbakarnan or Vibishanan?'. Personally I am unable to find answer for the above.

There are many languages, thousands of castes and millions of practices prevailing within our way of life.

We see God within ourselves even though it appears to the external world that we are idol worshipers.

Thirumoolar says

உள்ளம் ஒரு பெருங்கோயில் We have the biggest temple inside us

உள்நாடி ஒளி பெற உள்ளே நோக்கினார் கண்ணாடி போல கலந்துநின்றானே If you sincerely look inside, you can realise God within yourself just like a mirror reflecting your image.

We don't have to go to a place of worship on a particular day or time. All the days are good days only. But still we believe in astrology and look for auspicious time for doing any thing.

Unity in diversity is our way of life. Let us accept it and move forward.

Let us ignore all the criticisms.

Our way of life is eternal. There is no origin and there will not be any end also.

When Mahatma Gandhi took `Ahimsa' as weapon, mighty British empire didn't had any answers.

Even now our answer to 26/11.2008 terrorist attack on Mumbai is totally different from the so called 9.11.2001 attack on New York.

We have fully recovered from Mumbai attack and both Taj & Oberoi hotels have started functioning normally.

Our growth has started and nothing can stop us. By 2013, India is likely to overtake China and continue to keep the top growth rate position till 2050

India's GDP growth could overtake China within two years - International Business Times

Let us concentrate positive aspects and avoid negative side.

Missionaries have failed in their agenda in the last 300 years and are not going to succeed in the future also.

All the best
 
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ShivKC

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feature_survey_christian_hi.gif
features_survey.php
Christian Aggression - Assault on India


Check out this oh those liberals

feature_survey_christian_planting.gif


Figure 1 above displays the percentage of Hindus in each state in India, where red has the highest concentration and yellow is the lowest. The central states of Orissa, Madhya Pradesh and Chhattisgarh (red) have the highest percentage of Hindus and are what missionaries have labeled as "The Hindu Belt". The church has aims to eliminate Hinduism believes the entire population of India can be converted to Christianity if this region is converted first. In fact, the church has deemed that the "Evangelization of the Hindu belt of India may be the greatest single challenge in world evangelization today." Below we will go take a further look into how the church is furiously working to achieve this goal and destroy the religious identity of India.


Figure 2 - "Church Planting and Workers"

The left diagram in Figure 2 shows the areas which the church has decided to target for "church planting" or the building of churches for conversion purposes. The diagram on the right shows the areas which the church has decided to place missionaries in. Yellow represents a low priority for the church while red represents a high priority. As we can see these maps are almost identical to Figure 1 which implies that they are heavily planning to target the areas with high concentrations of Hindu population.

Also we can notice that in Figure 2, the church has some areas that are redder on the right diagram than on the left. This indicates that churches have already been built in those areas, but missionaries are not available to convert the local population. This is true because on average in India for every 8 churches there is only one missionary or pastor. This is an outright proof that churches are being built in India, not to satisfy the needs of the existing Christian population, but rather to provoke and convert the non-Christian population.


Figure 3- Christian Population of India

Figure 3 shows the distribution of the Christian population of India. Note that the highest concentration of Christians is in the south in the states of Kerala and Goa, where many were forcibly converted by Portuguese and British Missionaries centuries ago. In addition, also note that the Northeastern wing of India is dark red due to conversions by Missionaries over the past decade. This map is from a 1991 survey, however, a currently survey is likely to show an near complete red region in the Northeast due to the forced conversion of local population by Christian terrorist groups.

We can also observe that there are lesser but noticeable areas of Christians along the south and eastern coasts of India in the states of Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh, West Bengal, Karnataka and Orissa. These are the areas of India that under currently being targeted the most by missionaries.


Figure 4 - The Two Fronts

Based on the trends and data accumulated from the previous maps, we can conclude that church has effectively launched two major fronts to target the "Hindu Belt", the heartland of India. One front is being launched from the missionary stronghold of Kerala up through Karnataka, Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh towards Orissa. The other front is coming from the Christian majority Northeast through West Bengal, Jharkhand and Bihar also towards Orissa. We can notice that these two fronts converge on the "Hindu Belt".


Figure 5 - The Santal Tribe

In fact, the Church has already begun its attack on the "Hindu Belt". Missionaries from the Northeast front are currently attempting to convert the 4,800,000 people of the Hindu Santal tribe by exploiting their impoverished situation. The Santals are spread through Bihar, West Bengal, Jharkand and Orissa. Missionaries are hoping to convert this innocent tribe to gain access into areas with large Hindu populations such as Orissa.


Figure 6 - Siege of Orissa

Missionaries have also begun to target Orissa in particular because a large portion of the Hindu population is comprised of tribals who are distanced from mainstream Hinduism. There have also been many reports of "Christian Persecution" in Orissa by Western media such as the death of Missionary Graham Staines. However, Western media never reports that this violence upon Christians is provoked and instigated by the systematic attempts to destroy the religion of Hindus and other members of the local population.


Figure 7 - Indigenous Missionaries

One of the most effective strategies that Missionaries have employed is to create indigenous missionaries. Indigenous missionaries can relate to the local population and also are not faced with visa restrictions. As seen above, the church is attempting to brainwash the Santal peoples into being indigenous missionaries to indoctrinate the local population as well. Figure 7 shows the amount of indigenous missionaries in India each year. The Christian onslaught of India can be noticed by the simple fact that India has more indigenous missionaries than any other country in the world. The graph above shows that the number of indigenous missionaries has increased nearly four-fold in less than a decade to 44,000 indigenous missionaries!

If the statistical trends above continue, India seems doomed to become a Christian nation. However, with coordinated efforts by the citizens and government of India, we can stop these sinister designs of missionaries and hope that India can remain to be a bastion of true religious freedom.
 
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RVR

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Sri ShivKC,

Lot of Hindu organisations have started doing charitable activities and the last year conflict in Orissa is mainly due to the counter measures adopted by Hindu organisations. One Hindu Sanyasi was killed in Kandhamal which resulted in large scale violence.

BJP is reaping benefits in tribal areas in Jharkand mainly due to the wonderful work done by RSS controlled organisations like Seva Bharathi etc.

I am sure the activities of Hindu service units will increase in the future and missionary agenda will be stopped to great extent.

All the best
 
To ALL,
I HAVE POSTED A BOOK "WHY I BECAME A HINDU" by MR.DAVID FRAWLEY(now PANDIT VAMADEVA SASTRY) in my POST no:19 (20/10/2010)in the THREAD 'WHY I AM A HINDU'
under the title subject "RELIGION"
The author has discussed these issues in his book.
IN MY HEART OF HEART I WILL LOVE TO BE A MEMBER OF"UNIVERSAL RELIGION"
where there is no differentiation, hatred, and ONLY PURE LOVE pervades the entire
Humanity.Till such a situation develops I have to be only a true follower of 'Sanathana Dharma' and will defend the same to the best of my ability.I agree with RVR Sir that
HINDU organisations are also taking efforts to oppose the unwelcome hidden activities
of 'other religious groups' in INDIA.MORE needs to be done and every Hindu has to extend moral support.We can at least foster friendship and unity among different groups,class,castes in HINDU FAITH.
 

RVR

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Sri B Krishnamurthi Sir,

I would like to give the link of Swamy Vivekananda, India and Sanatana Dharma

Swami Vivekananda on India and Sanatana Dharma

"Political greatness or military power is never the mission of our race; it never was, and, mark my words, it never will be.India's gift to the world is the light spiritual" - Swamy Vivekananda

I am also interested in highlighting the importance of September 11 here. Everybody knows about 9/11 only to the incident which occurred in 2001 at New York

When we say 9/11, we all think of the incident on 2001 but I would like to point two other 9/11 events of great significance, especially to Indians and students of Indian History.

The first was 9/11/1893 when Swami Vivenkananda addressed the World's Parliament of Religions in Chicago, USA. He spoke of universal brotherhood and the confluence of all religions. Till that day, greatness of Sanatana Dharma was not known to western world.

The other one was in 9/11/1906 when Mahatma Gandhi launched his first Satyagraha movement in Transvaal province of South Africa against the enactment of Asiatic Amendment Act (aka Black Act). This was done in a peaceful and non-violent manner and the experience later enabled Gandhiji to take on and subsequently conquer the then mighty British Empire.

Perhaps the world forgot the significance of these two important 9/11s and the messages thereof and this had led to the 3rd 9/11. Had the world leaders listened to these apostles of peace and followed their sage advices to establish a world order based on Equity, Love, Brotherhood, Tolerance & Non Violence, the 3rd 9/11 would not have happened at all !!! I wonder if any of the present day leaders care to give these ideals an even passing thought - that includes Bush & Obama as well.

All the best
 
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Brahmanyan

Active member
Why we should blame others for our own faults. Let us be honest,and ask the question, why missionaries were able to convert mostly the dalits and tribals easily. Our Society (Hindu Society) segregated these unfortunates just because of their birth as untouchables. How many of us have done service in Cheries or ready to do service among the diseased and so called untouchables like Mother Teresa. During my College days I had gone into the Harijan Busties along with our Gandhi Social Service league and seen the appalling living conditions of these unfortunates who were segregated because of birth. Let us not talk big and do nothing. We want some one else to take up the job. In Many tribal areas where our society have forsaken our own people, Missionaries from other Countries have done wonderful work for their upliftment and gained their confidence.
Yes, RSS and its sister organisations are doing great job among the villages and tribal areas especially during emergencies like Floods and natural disasters. During the time of Sunami, RSS volunteers took the job of clearing the decomposed corpses and gave respectable burial or cremation. But they never linked their work to Religion or Conversion.
Regards,
Brahmanyan.
 
H

hoover

Guest
Intellectuals are able to go through wisdom of books. a commen worker dont have even read a single line in veda. But he is in front of pelting stones when communal riots happen. and he is also at front whe increasing numbers.
Numbers are impotant, studey example of Lebnan, Kashmir, assam, some distiricts of west bengal.
If numbers are reduced then all that wisdom of our forefathers is going nothing but in the gutters and hearths in houses of illiterate people, irrespective of its greatness and importance for human race.
Sri RVR sir,
I think we are daydreaming, demographical changes are most important for culture. and In India those are taking place everywhere. There is no competition of us with china. CWG and Beiging Olympic are recent examples. In past also china was a great empire, with a government system based of merit. which India lack most. In past there were Mandarines, who were beurocrats in china and they were seledted on basis of merit even then. In a recet BBC disusssion one chinese author also pointed towards this difference Between china and India.
Being servant of a wise is always better than being master of a fool.
If we are not able to run this country properly let this work is handed over to European Union or Nato!!!
 
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RVR

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Intellectuals are able to go through wisdom of books. a commen worker dont have even read a single line in veda. But he is in front of pelting stones when communal riots happen. and he is also at front whe increasing numbers.
Numbers are impotant, studey example of Lebnan, Kashmir, assam, some distiricts of west bengal.
If numbers are reduced then all that wisdom of our forefathers is going nothing but in the gutters and hearths in houses of illiterate people, irrespective of its greatness and importance for human race.
Sri RVR sir,
I think we are daydreaming, demographical changes are most important for culture. and In India those are taking place everywhere. There is no competition of us with china. CWG and Beiging Olympic are recent examples. In past also china was a great empire, with a government system based of merit. which India lack most. In past there were Mandarines, who were beurocrats in china and they were seledted on basis of merit even then. In a recet BBC disusssion one chinese author also pointed towards this difference Between china and India.
Being servant of a wise is always better than being master of a fool.
If we are not able to run this country properly let this work is handed over to European Union or Nato!!!

Hoover,

I don't know why you are pessimistic.

We have to be careful which I fully agree with you.

At the same time, we need not have to unduly worry about anything.

During British rule and subsequent policies of our Government has made us poor. But after liberalisation of 1991, India is only looking up, up and only UP.

Even when Vaajpayee government exploded nuclear bombs, the developed world imposed lot of sanctions on us. But we have overcome all the problem and have seen only growth during the period.

Now the so called developed world wants us than we want them.

We have to make peace with China and build friendship. China is already becoming a super power and we may not lag behind them very much.

Infact we have to be more optimistic about our future as we are likely to have largest youth population in the world

Young Indian Population – Its Biggest Asset

Already we are seeing the difference in the approach to the problems both internal and external.

Our reaction to Ayodhya verdict was highly matured. We have to thank both Hindus and Muslims for that. May be it is not to the liking of missionaries and other vested interests.

If youngsters like you loose confidence, it is not good the country.

Please read the books of Swamy Vivekananda and be optimistic.

All the best
 
H

hoover

Guest
sri RVR sir,
here is to mention important facts. all we think that something different happening in our country, It is not true.
1. the generation with ideals of patriotism, zealous for grace of this country is now disillusioned and keeping distance from welfare of country. due to lack of merit system they choose to flee. and they are right.
2. the same devlopment we can see in Karachi also and dhaka is also changing as it is to be happened that someone is building new skyscrappers in place of old one. it is not a dramatic change it is regular, and so we are not going into any new direction. what is going towards bad direction is the governance. Noone can guarantee in this country that he will complete train journy from chennai to mumbai without any problem or thept .
3. nearabout sixty to seventy percent of mony from budgetary allocations go return without spending only due to inefficiancy.
4. global warming in coming days is going to affect vary badly to india. a serious drought is sufficiant to turn on anarchy in this country. conditions are not much different from that of anarchy in nearabout hundred districts of this country.
5. with compromised quality human resource in every field of govt. it is delivering nothing than corruption.
social insecurity is growing, both financial and physical. It is not just negative minded thinking.
India today certainly lack good teachers of maths, physics and other subjects. govts castism forced brilliant people to neglect govt. and it is paying its price. It is certainly shameful that a pm a cm an so many central ministers cannot accoplish a cwg. In deed it is a work meant for an Ias. so govt. is inefficiant. and such an govt. produces conditions for people to be self centric, selfish. in such conditions culture is the last thing for people to think.
 
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ShivKC

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Catholic missionaries are the worst of its kind, running a business empire with Pope as CEO. Look at the prime real estate they have in acres & acres of land in Mount Road and Santhome in the name of convents and schools. Any conservative figure could estimate it to 20,000 crores. A simple eg of 100 acres St.Johns hospital in the prime residential area of Bagalore, which itself could be Rs.5000 crores. And St.Josephs,Bishop Cottons,Sacred hears would add another 10,000 crores.Land grabbers.
RSS dont even own 10 cents of land in equivalent site value . We dont find any temples or mosque more than a 500 sft in such prime areas of chennai,bangalore. Even the newly bulit churches come up with sprawling campus. Why a religion need this much land and own assets?
 

RVR

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Catholic missionaries are the worst of its kind, running a business empire with Pope as CEO. Look at the prime real estate they have in acres & acres of land in Mount Road and Santhome in the name of convents and schools. Any conservative figure could estimate it to 20,000 crores. A simple eg of 100 acres St.Johns hospital in the prime residential area of Bagalore, which itself could be Rs.5000 crores. And St.Josephs,Bishop Cottons,Sacred hears would add another 10,000 crores.Land grabbers.
RSS dont even own 10 cents of land in equivalent site value . We dont find any temples or mosque more than a 500 sft in such prime areas of chennai,bangalore. Even the newly bulit churches come up with sprawling campus. Why a religion need this much land and own assets?

Sri ShivKC,

Our temples also owns substantial land in cities as well as villages. For example most of the land surrounding HRCE controlled city temples have substantial land bank - Kapaleeswarar temple, Parthasarathi temple and other temples.

But all these lands are encroached and HRCE dept controlled by the Government is not doing anything to evict the encroachers and/or collect revenues from them.

Like HRCE, why don't the Government create a department for controlling Church properties?

All the best
 
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Brahmanyan

Active member
Catholic missionaries are the worst of its kind, running a business empire with Pope as CEO. Look at the prime real estate they have in acres & acres of land in Mount Road and Santhome in the name of convents and schools. Any conservative figure could estimate it to 20,000 crores. A simple eg of 100 acres St.Johns hospital in the prime residential area of Bagalore, which itself could be Rs.5000 crores. And St.Josephs,Bishop Cottons,Sacred hears would add another 10,000 crores.Land grabbers.
RSS dont even own 10 cents of land in equivalent site value . We dont find any temples or mosque more than a 500 sft in such prime areas of chennai,bangalore. Even the newly bulit churches come up with sprawling campus. Why a religion need this much land and own assets?

When Christian missionaries were allotted land for construction of Schools, Colleges, Hospitals and Churches and Seminaries, the places allotted to them at that time were not prime locations as of today. It is true that the British Government gave priority to Christian institutions in the allotment of lands, just as Muslim rulers gave priority to Muslims. Let us not forget that most of the people benefited from them were non Christians. Even today the Hospitals run by missionaries like St. Martha's, St. Philomina's, and St. John's or CSI in Bangalore offer the best treatment at affordable rates. Except for the Hospital run by Chinmaya Mission no other Hindu Organization has evinced interest in building Hospital in Bangalore. All other Big hospitals are money making business. The same holds good for the private schools. It is an open secret that the conditions of the Schools and Hospitals run by the Government are the worst.

There is nothing wrong in building of places of worship , many big Hindu temples too have comeup in recent years in Bangalore like Sri Krishna Temple at ISKCON Hills, Hanuman Temple at Rahigudda and others.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore
 

RVR

0
Sri Brahmanyan,

In Chennai we have number of charitable hospitals promoted by Hindus doing extremely good service to the entire community at an affordable cost.

Sankara Nethralaya Eye Hospital, Eye Care, LASIK, Chennai, India, Charitable, Best Eye Hospital: Sankara Nethralaya

Sundaram Medical Foundation promoted by TVS group Welcome to Sundaram Medical Foundation

Stedford Hospital promoted by Murugappa group Sir Ivan Stedford Hospital

Child Trust Hospital run by Kanchi Mutt kanchi kamakoti childs trust hospital in nageswara road chennai | kanchi kamakoti childs trust hospital nageswara road Phone Numbers & Address | Child Care - Yahoo! India Local

Hindu Mission Hospital at Tambaram run by Kanchi Mutt
hindu mission hospital chennai india

There are several hospitals in rural Tamilnadu also run by Hindu community on charitable basis. Arvind Eye Hospital at Madurai is doing excellent service to all

All the best
 
OP
OP
S

ShivKC

0
Indian media, esp PTI , All India Radio and Press, once ours, a Brahmin bastion is now hijacked by christian missionaries. Our own The Hindu news paper of n.ram too got succumbed to it, thanks to his swedish wife.


NDTV: A very popular TV news media is funded by Gospels of Charity in Spain supports
Communism. Recently it has developed a soft corner towards Pakistan because Pakistan
President has allowed only this channel to be aired in Pakistan. Indian CEO Prannoy Roy is co-
brother of Prakash Karat, General Secretaryof Communist party of India.His wife and Brinda
Karat are sisters.India Today is now bought by NDTV and and is a Hindu bashing media.

CNN-IBN: This is 100 percent funded by Southern Baptist Church with its branches in all over
the world with HQ in US. The Church annually allocates $800 million for promotion of its
channel. Its Indian head is Rajdeep Sardesai and his wife Sagarika Ghosh.

Times group list: Times Of India, Mid-Day, Nav-Bharth Times, Stardust , Femina, Vijaya Times, Vijaya
Karnataka, Times now (24- hour news channel) and many more. Times Group is owned by
Bennet & Coleman. 'World Christian Council' does 80 percent of the Funding, and an
Englishman and an Italian equally share balance 20 percent. The Italian Robertio Mindo is a
closerelative of Sonia Gandhi.

Star TV: It is run by an Australian, who is supported by St. Peters Pontificial Church Melbourne. Hindustan Times: Owned by Birla Group, but hands have changed since Shobana Bhartiya took over. Presently it is working in Collobration with Times Group.

The Hindu:English daily, started over 125 years has been recently taken over by Joshua Society, Berne, Switzerland. N.Ram's wife is a Swiss national. Indian Express:. The Indian Express and new Indian Express (southern edition)ACTS Christian Ministries have major stake in the IndianExpress and the new Indian Express. Eeenadu: Still to date controlled by an Indian named Ramoji Rao. Ramoji Rao is connected with film industry and owns a huge studio in Andhra Pradesh . Andhra Jyothi: The Muslim party of Hyderabad known as MIM along with a Congress Minister has purchased this Telgu daily very recently.

The Statesman: It is controlled by Communist Party of India.

Kairal TV: It is controlled by Communist party of India (Marxist)

Mathrubhoomi: Leaders of Muslim League and Communist leaders have major investment.
Asian Age and Deccan Chronicle: Is owned by a Saudi Arabian Company with its chief Editor
M.J. Akbar. Gujrat riots which took place in 2002 where Hindus were burnt alive, Rajdeep Sardesai and
Bharkha Dutt working for Star TV at time got around 5 Million Dollars from Saudi Arabia to
cover only Muslim victims which they did very faithfully. Not a single Hindu family they
covered whose near and dear ones had been burnt alive, it is reported.Recently the OUTLOOK
also carried the photos of relatives of muslim victims ofHyderabad blast.

Tarun Tejpal of Tehelka.com regularly gets flat check from Arab countries to target BJP and Hindus only, it is said. Malyayamanorama and the Deepika are owned by CIA and locally represented by Kerala Christians. The ownership explains the control of media in India by foreigners. The result is obvious.
 
Missionaries are persuasive even in the west. A number of times they had knocked on my doors on Sunday morning and tried to tell how 'Bible has answers to imagined problems i may face'.
A week after 26 11 mumbai attacks, they knocked on my Door and started like

'Terrorism is for real and a work of demon and how Bible can help ........."

thanks,
 
Yes of-course Shivji, the missionaries are the worst lot in the world. I can even get along with the moslems nicely.. but the darn missionaries are the worst among the people on earth... Do you know.. how the missionaries are using the Dalits for anti-Hindu propaganda? Our tolerant society... rather than punishing the sinners... cast them outside the main stream as Outcasts... but in foreign countries... they will be burned at stake. We forgot to punish our criminals with death... now we are reaping the harvests... damn! Let me tell you... I met a Telugu guy from Tanjore near by my office... he is not a brahman... but his Hindu Pride runs high... he lamented that when the country is lost to criminals, the current anarchy is the outcome. Look at our previous generation ministers... like Kamraj (Freedom fighter), Rajaji, also a freedom fighter... Kakkan, I even enlist Aringyar anna into the list. Except for Kamraj others are educated. All governed the society with due respect. Though being a renowned Brahman hater.. Annadurai did not involve in vandalism. We are put on a defensive with a single word...caste. But caste has its benefits... It is the caste that held our Hindu identity for ages against the onslaught of Islam... it is the caste that the Missionaries finds very difficult for conversion. Any of those that had converted is due to poverty... and nothing else. By and large, caste remained an effective hurdle to the destruction of Hinduism through conversion. That is why the missionaries started attacking the institution of caste and in particular the brahmin caste. This propaganda has bloomed into a full-fledged anti-brahminism, the Indian equivalent of anti-Semitism. Even our caste system has its own autonomy...
Every caste has its own temple and panchayat. Even the lowest caste had veto power.
This decentralized structure of civil society and of the Hindu religious commonwealth has been crucial to the survival of Hinduism under Muslim rule. Whereas Buddhism was swept away as soon as its monasteries were destroyed, Hinduism retreated into its caste structure and weathered the storm. Discriminating based on caste is not good... but you just cannot say the caste is bad. Look at how the caste played an important role in integrating the immigrant communities.

It is a christian practice. I'll show you. In Europe and elsewhere, there was (or still is) a hierarchical distinction between noblemen and commoners, with nobility only marrying nobility. Many tribal societies punished the breach of endogamy rules with death.

So by destrying the brahmins... the caste system is destroyed... by destroying the Varna Order... India will be destroyed. The foolish missionaries cannot hold their ground in the west... where when a person claims to have "saved souls" will meet with ridicule and laughter. But you know that, slavery is the inherent in Christianity.

Now my quotes... Please educate about the evil designs of Christianity...

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

Notice how they can get a male Hebrew slave to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent slave. What kind of family values are these?

The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery. How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11)

So these are the Bible family values! A man can buy as many sex slaves as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and screws them!
What does the Bible say about beating slaves? It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don't die right away you are cleared of any wrong doing.

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21)

You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.


Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5)


Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2)

In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn't know they were doing anything wrong.

The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48)

If you want I'll quote more... but for now... I feel sleepy... so please beware of the missionaries... soon I'll circulate pamphlets of Idiots Guide to Christianity and Quaran: In the eyes of a Kaffir.
 
Yes of-course Shivji, the missionaries are the worst lot in the world. I can even get along with the moslems nicely.. but the darn missionaries are the worst among the people on earth... Do you know.. how the missionaries are using the Dalits for anti-Hindu propaganda? Our tolerant society... rather than punishing the sinners... cast them outside the main stream as Outcasts... but in foreign countries... they will be burned at stake. We forgot to punish our criminals with death... now we are reaping the harvests... damn!
Hello Srikrish,

Are you saying that the outcastes (dalits) were cast out for some crimes? And it was a mistake not to punish them with death? And because of that “we are reaping the harvests” since "missionaries are using dalits for anti-hindu propaganda"?

May i know what those crimes were, which made a man outcaste ?

According to Manusmrithi eating onions and garlic makes a man an outcast (purificatory rites are prescribed for this). However, Manusmrithi also makes a man outcaste if he follows only niyama and does not follow yama (there are no purificatory rites for this) -- and this is just one example. If we were to go by the dharmashastras, there wud be no brahmins today. And most people who call themselves ‘brahmins’ wud be outcastes.

Let me tell you... I met a Telugu guy from Tanjore near by my office... he is not a brahman... but his Hindu Pride runs high...
I bet he does not know what orthodox brahmanism stands for (of the labour laws kind). Please do him a favour, and educate him in the shastras. I suspect he will remain a hindu but the sort that does not support dharmashastras (nor will he support institutions that seek to categorize people into 4 boxes based on antediluvian texts).

he lamented that when the country is lost to criminals, the current anarchy is the outcome. Look at our previous generation ministers... like Kamraj (Freedom fighter), Rajaji, also a freedom fighter... Kakkan, I even enlist Aringyar anna into the list. Except for Kamraj others are educated. All governed the society with due respect. Though being a renowned Brahman hater.. Annadurai did not involve in vandalism.
Srikrish, i have met quite a few folks (brahmins included) who were / are corrupt. No Indian seems different from the rest of the population when it comes to bribery and corruption.

We are put on a defensive with a single word...caste. But caste has its benefits... It is the caste that held our Hindu identity for ages against the onslaught of Islam...
Perhaps that is why many ‘low castes’ joined the british and mughal armies. Btw, you often quote Sikhism. So you shd know that most Sikhs are low-caste converts. And these low-castes fought against the mughals to preserve their Sikh faith (which also includes their sense of equality before god in sikhism). If their hindu identity was strong, they wud not have converted into sikhs.

But even in Sikhism there was treachery, like Painda Khan, the most favored sardar of Guru Hargobind (Painda became arrogant due to his success, his greed made him seek a better status under the mughals, so he went and informed the mughal court that his guru’s army was made up of low-castes, poor people, the disabled and diseased, and what followed was mayhem). So much for identities and ‘caste’ really..

it is the caste that the Missionaries finds very difficult for conversion. Any of those that had converted is due to poverty... and nothing else.
I wonder why do not ‘brahmins’ ask the ‘dalits’ themselves why do they convert? I wonder why ‘low-castes’ convert even if they are well-off, if it were due to poverty alone (and the last i heard, this was esp true of andhra where well-off dalits and shudras convert for dignity, mostly to christianity and sometimes to islam....someone said "the lower the caste goes the more likely they are to convert to islam")…

By and large, caste remained an effective hurdle to the destruction of Hinduism through conversion. That is why the missionaries started attacking the institution of caste and in particular the brahmin caste. This propaganda has bloomed into a full-fledged anti-brahminism, the Indian equivalent of anti-Semitism. Even our caste system has its own autonomy...
Sorry to spoil your comfort zone Srikrish. Methinks brahmins brought upon anti-brahmanism on themselves, in not so simple ways. Both in north and south india, some 'folks' tried to influence politicians and influential people. There were 'folks' who wanted a nation based on “hindu principles”; and they also went around designating varnas in courts (despite the fact that members of their own kind were fit enough to be considered outcastes during this time). Well, hypocrisy and double-standards are part of our corruption system you see….

Every caste has its own temple and panchayat. Even the lowest caste had veto power.
This decentralized structure of civil society and of the Hindu religious commonwealth has been crucial to the survival of Hinduism under Muslim rule. Whereas Buddhism was swept away as soon as its monasteries were destroyed, Hinduism retreated into its caste structure and weathered the storm. Discriminating based on caste is not good... but you just cannot say the caste is bad. Look at how the caste played an important role in integrating the immigrant communities.
Perhaps you are aware that low-castes went about acquiring “sanskritized stuff” for themselves in the british raj…anyways, that part, may i know what storm did hinduism weather by ‘retreating into its caste structure’?

It is a christian practice. I'll show you. In Europe and elsewhere, there was (or still is) a hierarchical distinction between noblemen and commoners, with nobility only marrying nobility. Many tribal societies punished the breach of endogamy rules with death.

So by destrying the brahmins... the caste system is destroyed... by destroying the Varna Order... India will be destroyed. The foolish missionaries cannot hold their ground in the west... where when a person claims to have "saved souls" will meet with ridicule and laughter. But you know that, slavery is the inherent in Christianity.
Sorry Srikrish I think the nation will prosper if ‘caste-system’ is done away with. And i mean so in both ways, political and apolitical (that is in the social and religious sphere). Except brahmins, and a few NBs, i do not see anyone who wants the caste (varna) system to remain. Methinks the indian government caste-classification is time bound, like karma (it will eventually go through an overhaul sooner or later).

Now my quotes... Please educate about the evil designs of Christianity...

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

Notice how they can get a male Hebrew slave to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent slave. What kind of family values are these?
And have you read the dharmashastras how a slave must be treated in “hindusim” ?

Looks like people like to compare a worse thing with a bad thing just to acquit the bad thing.

Sorry Srikrish, the bible is ridiculous and so are the dharmashastras. Just because a person “belongs’ to one belief system, he is unable to see the negativities in his own belief system; whereas he is able to clearly see the negativities of an other person’s belief system.

The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery. How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11)

So these are the Bible family values! A man can buy as many sex slaves as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and screws them!
What does the Bible say about beating slaves? It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don't die right away you are cleared of any wrong doing.

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21)

You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2)

In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn't know they were doing anything wrong.

The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48)

If you want I'll quote more... but for now... I feel sleepy... so please beware of the missionaries... soon I'll circulate pamphlets of Idiots Guide to Christianity and Quaran: In the eyes of a Kaffir.
Srikrish, it would be good if you read the dharmashastras yourself. It appears that folks who call themselves brahmins today are highly un-informed or mis-informed about the shastras; and perhaps that is what leads them to bask in selective prejudice.

Regards.
 
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Methinks brahmins brought upon anti-brahmanism on themselves, in not so simple ways. Both in north and south india, some 'folks' tried to influence politicians and influential people. There were 'folks' who wanted a nation based on “hindu principles”; and they also went around designating varnas in courts (despite the fact that members of their own kind were fit enough to be considered outcastes during this time). Well, hypocrisy and double-standards are part of our corruption system you see….
Smt HH,

I do not think anti-brahminism is there in any part of India as potently as it is in TN. You and Prof. Nara had dealt with the cuases for this in some other thread. Though brahmins in other parts have lost their earlier pre-eminence due to various reasons, they are not given the type of bad treatment as in TN. Perhaps Andhra also has anti-brahmin atrocities to some extent. This is my impression. You may be better informed.

Slavery was there, of course, in hinduism. I give below an extract from the chapter on Sraddha in The History of Dharmasastras by Mahamahopadhyayam Bharatratna, Dr. P.V. Kane:

"According to Manu III 245-46, Vishnu 81.22-23, matsya 17.56-57, the leavings of food in the plates of the (SrAddha) brAhmaNas and the scattered food in the plates (vikira) were the lot of persons of the family dying young, while the leavings of the food that fell or were left on the ground were the share of the group of slaves that were straight-forward and not roguish (dishonest or shirkers)."

In the ASramavAsika parva 14 3-4 yudhishtira is said to have made gifts of gold and jewels, slaves, blankets, villages and fields, elephants and horses with their trappings, and of girls to the brAhmaNas who partook in the srAddha for bheeshma, drONa, duryOdhana and others.
 
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