Maya - Captivating Power

[renuka]

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Ok. Vices are considered immoral. But in the right context they are to be enacted just as Krishna did. They are greater than even virtuous acts.

In a similar way maya seems to be an obstacle to our straightforward vision. But the real purpose of the obstacle is to make you rise. So in the higher scheme of things it is actually a facilitator.

Technically immoral is a judgment.
What we ought to understand is using our perception to know what works for us and what does not work for us.

What we call " immoral" are actions that which is not conducive for our system.

I dont really spend time to think what is the cause and the real reason of an obstacle, I just carry on with my journey.

For eg if suddenly there is a traffic jam and I need to get to work on time...I just find an alternative route.
Why waste time to ponder "what is the real purpose of the traffic jam today"

See what I mean, in real life we consciously go beyond obstacles ..makes me wonder why you seem to be attached to Maya.

 

[renuka]

But Renuka you mainly quote Vedanta to make your points.

Yes, because the topic is Maya..the data is from Vedanta.
Its just for discussion.
In my real life..just God and do my duty.

 

[sravna]

I dont subscribe to Vedanta as my Sadhana.
I do like the philosophy though but beyond that I dont subscribe to it.
My focus is God and just Be!

Also Renuka in the physical reality it is impossible to be just be. It is in the realm of nirguna brahman that is possible. Even saguna brahman thinks and acts. In the physical world if you are trying being just be it is nothing but inaction.

 

[sravna]

Technically immoral is a judgment.
What we ought to understand is using our perception to know what works for us and what does not work for us.

What we call " immoral" are actions that which is not conducive for our system.

I dont really spend time to think what is the cause and the real reason of an obstacle, I just carry on with my journey.

For eg if suddenly there is a traffic jam and I need to get to work on time...I just find an alternative route.
Why waste time to ponder "what is the real purpose of the traffic jam today"

See what I mean, in real life we consciously go beyond obstacles ..makes me wonder why you seem to be attached to Maya.

Yes whatever it is problem solving is the objective. You begin to wonder about purpose as you get stuck in a deeper problem.

 

[sravna]

Yes, because the topic is Maya..the data is from Vedanta.
Its just for discussion.
In my real life..just God and do my duty.

Understanding may give you the illusion of knowing. Only when one lives it real knowledge happens. Even making something work such as using technology is no guarantee of true knowledge because it can be falsified. Please don't mistake me. But I am just pointing out the mistake many typically do

 

[renuka]

Sravna, in real life I have dropped all intellectual pursue in spirituality.
I simply live in the present.
There comes a time where all philosophy or knowing or learning or seeking stops..this is the state of Be.

 

[sravna]

Sravna, in real life I have dropped all intellectual pursue in spirituality.
I simply live in the present.
There comes a time where all philosophy or knowing or learning or seeking stops..this is the state of Be.

I can't think of anything else other than complete self realisation that makes you stop seeking truths.

 

[sravna]

I can't think of anything else other than complete self realisation that makes you stop seeking truths.

Understanding happens first and when you relate it to your own experiences realization happens. Can't stop seeking as you may miss the import of your experiences.

Sometimes events may trigger seeking which means you are already well evolved.

 

[renuka]

I can't think of anything else other than complete self realisation that makes you stop seeking truths.

Not really, its just that eventually we all " unlearn".
I dont seek realization or liberation either.

 

[sravna]

Not really, its just that eventually we all " unlearn".
I dont seek realization or liberation either.

Unlearn is used in the context ridding false knowledge. You don't unlearn truths for sure.

 

[renuka]

Unlearn is used in the context ridding false knowledge. You don't unlearn truths for sure.

Unlearn is when you just dont intellectualize anymore.

 

[sravna]

Unlearn is when you just dont intellectualize anymore.

Yes it is also meant only for certain groups. They should do nothing and just be at the mercy of those who decide the philosophy of life and the fate.

 

[renuka]

Yes it is also meant only for certain groups. They should do nothing and just be at the mercy of those who decide the philosophy of life and the fate.

We are not at the mercy of anyone beside He the most Compassionate, the most Merciful.

When intellectualization stops, thats when spirituality begins.

Philosophy is only for the intellect but not the Atma.

 

[sravna]

We are not at the mercy of anyone beside He the most Compassionate, the most Merciful.

When intellectualization stops, thats when spirituality begins.

Philosophy is only for the intellect but not the Atma.

It is not only about self realisation but also making others benefit from one's experiences. Our own self realisation should have from the experiences and teachings of others besides our own efforts. Spelling it out as philosophy is needed to let others benefit.

 

[renuka]

It is not only about self realisation but also making others benefit from one's experiences. Our own self realisation should have from the experiences and teachings of others besides our own efforts. Spelling it out as philosophy is needed to let others benefit.

God reaches out to His subjects in ways best known to Him.

Firstly we have to drop the idea that we can change others as in to make them understand.

If God reached out to Mr X, He could also reach out to Mr Y..God wont need Mr X to enlighten Mr Y.

Philosophy only spells it out..but until and unless God wills it, it would only remain as data.
Only through the will of God one experiences jnaana.

 

[sravna]

God I believe would not want to keep enlightening one by one till all get enlightened. What is the purpose of rebirth and different philosophies and bodies of knowledge. The message is clear for those who are inclined to see it. He wants interactions and sharing from various types of experiences and everyone to benefit from one another's experience and knowledge.

 

[renuka]

God I believe would not want to keep enlightening one by one till all get enlightened. What is the purpose of rebirth and different philosophies and bodies of knowledge. The message is clear for those who are inclined to see it. He wants interactions and sharing from various types of experiences and everyone to benefit from one another's experience

No idea.

 

[Mohan Parasuram]

God I believe would not want to keep enlightening one by one till all get enlightened. What is the purpose of rebirth and different philosophies and bodies of knowledge. The message is clear for those who are inclined to see it. He wants interactions and sharing from various types of experiences and everyone to benefit from one another's experience and knowledge.

It appears enlightment is simply sharing ones experience with others and if that is the case then large number of people would have already enlightened. There appears a lack of aim of the ultimate goal.

 

[renuka]

It appears enlightment is simply sharing ones experience with others and if that is the case then large number of people would have already enlightened. There appears a lack of aim of the ultimate goal.

Actually Shree Krishna had already given the scenario that hardly anyone actually know Him.

BG 7.3: Amongst thousands of persons, hardly one strives for perfection; and amongst those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows me in truth.

 

[renuka]

God I believe would not want to keep enlightening one by one till all get enlightened. What is the purpose of rebirth and different philosophies and bodies of knowledge. The message is clear for those who are inclined to see it. He wants interactions and sharing from various types of experiences and everyone to benefit from one another's experience and knowledge.

Think about this...

Bhagavad Gita 7.3: Amongst thousands of persons, hardly one strives for perfection; and amongst those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows me in truth.


Get what I mean?
Most people whom we think that are enlightened are just familiar with the concepts they read or get exposed too when they join any ashram or get a Guru itself.
They become the idea in words but not actually get into the state of BEING.
We ourselves could be just familiar with the concepts and nothing more.

That is why its almost futile to even think of enlightenment by one's own effort or knowledge or meditation itself.

Surrender in the real sense to God lifts the burden of any aim or goal in being a seeker.
A seeker can actually face a tremendous amount of stress as these days everyone is keeping up with the spiritual trend but not really putting into practice anything they learnt.

I once met a person who was bragging that he had studied the whole Gita and went on and on bragging.
Then I asked him if he could recite just one verse for me and he became rude right away because he couldnt recall anything.

Honestly even if he had memorized the whole Gita but yet being rude and arrogant, that goes to show he didnt imbibe anything.

Some people have never read the Gita but their selfless actions are of Karma yogins.

From my personal understanding I feel that God is a witness available to us all the time, its just us who do not log in to HIM.
If we "remember" Him, He "remembers" us..this is what we call Grace of God.

"So remember Me,I will remember you" --- Quran 2:152

 

[sravna]

Renuka,

My point is self may need the help of others in getting enlightened.

 

[renuka]

Renuka,

My point is self may need the help of others in getting enlightened.

Not always..in fact this is what leads to some thinking they are spiritually " evolved" when compared to others which is the trap of Maya itself.

Tell me where in the Gita does Krishna say " Some are more spiritually evolved than others..so go get their help to reach Me"

Nope! Krishna said everyone from all varnas and all genders and all walks of life can attain Him.

The whole scenario of the Gita is to let God be your charioteer.
So God is not just the charioteer for Partha as in Parthasarathy He can also be Srava Sarathy if you let Him be.

In this world we eat for ourselves..no one can make us feel hunger besides self..no one can make us feel thirst besides self...for basic instincts itself we cater to it by ourselves why do you think that the most important instinct of all to connect with God needs others?
It seems to be limiting Gods connectivity with His creation.

 

[sravna]

If one never needs the help of others teaching would not have existed and the guru sishya system would not have been there too. Nobody can do everything on his own. Helping others does not mean the helping person is condescending or considers himself superior. It is being cynical to think that way. It can be spontaneous and so enacting the will of God.

 

[renuka]

If one never needs the help of others teaching would not have existed and the guru sishya system would not have been there too. Nobody can do everything on his own. Helping others does not mean the helping person is condescending or considers himself superior. It is being cynical to think that way. It can be spontaneous and so enacting the will of God.

Guru shishya parampara isnt compulsory.
May be you have not met people who have surrendered to God totally.
Many simple minded people who are not formally educated yet their lives are like sages.
Wisdom speaks through them.

When a sincere person surrenders he gains jnaana.
In the Gita did Krishna say you only can get to Me through a Guru?

Nope!

There is nothing wrong in following Guru Shishya parampara but its optional.

Btw are you following any Guru Shisya parampara since you do say you are in your spiritual journey.

Who is your Guru?
Who transmitted knowledge to you and helped you remove the darkness and made you see light?

May be if you can share about your Guru then it would be better for everyone to understand.

 

[sravna]

Guru shishya parampara isnt compulsory.
May be you have not met people who have surrendered to God totally.
Many simple minded people who are not formally educated yet their lives are like sages.
Wisdom speaks through them.

When a sincere person surrenders he gains jnaana.
In the Gita did Krishna say you only can get to Me through a Guru?

Nope!

There is nothing wrong in following Guru Shishya parampara but its optional.

Btw are you following any Guru Shisya parampara since you do say you are in your spiritual journey.

Who is your Guru?
Who transmitted knowledge to you and helped you remove the darkness and made you see light?

May be if you can share about your Guru then it would be better for everyone to understand.

Renuka I agree. That it is optional. But some people do find it helpful. Some go on their own as I did. But I have this spontaneous feeling my knowledge can be helpful.

It would be immensely so especially because society is steeped in darkness. You may say that science and technology are improving leaps and bounds. But no one can truly deny the quality of life has actually degraded and concern for others has dramatically decreased. To top it all people have started saying it is wrong to have concern for others. What a fall! This will have repercussions definitely.

People should be left alone to chose their path but not at the cost of others or the society.