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brahman and maya

sravna

Well-known member
It would fine at least for some if God descends and be with all of us and help us directly with our problems. Why does he chose not to do it? The reason is he wanted to keep the spirit of learning alive. He made the physical reality as different as possible from the spiritual reality. Whereas spiritual reality is a still and constant reality, change is the only constant in the physical reality. He constantly sends His men to guide and help all of us. Some chose to take the help while some others are too arrogant and reject the help. He lets the latter also to have their way but subtly influences them to let them eventually arrive at the truths. Now and then he actually descends as an avatar but makes sure to hide His identity when He knows people will be awed by His presence.
 
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sravna

Well-known member
Sravna: Maya is nothing but the Brahman in action. Brahman is gunatit! This is more suitably expressed in Shaivat philosophy of creation. Shiva is Gunatit and symbolically expressed as a bindu or a dot. Maya which is the other half of Shiva, or called as Shakti is the expressed universe. Sometime I call Shakti as a gate-keeper. She checks you, examines you and makes sure you are worthy of Shiva unity! Thus credit to Maya, we evolve!
Well said Sir. I agree
 

sravna

Well-known member
Since everything is ultimately of divine origin there is room for a number of interpretations . So the need to have clarity on the purpose of creation, form concepts based on the purpose and the modus operandi and try to be consistent.
 

sravna

Well-known member
I would say to folks to follow one's native philosophy but be sympathetic to other philosophies by understanding that God is one. For the atheists I would say that they need to understand that truth is one for all and place truths above anything else.
 

jaythakar

Member
Well said Sir. I agree
Shakti we worship as Mother Goddess. As one finds in real life, they govern all the important aspects oif living as Saraswati, Laxmi and Durga.
Here is my view of modern science and our ancient philosophy working in harmony:

According to Saivat philosophy Shiva is the creator and is represented by a bindu that is formless or has no attributes. Shiva is unexpressed form or Purusha and Shakti is his other half, a dynamic presentation of the universe.
Shakti literally means ENERGY. According to biochemical science we know that we the human beings derive energy by metabolizing food through cellular processes. The end stages of this takes place in subcellular organelles called MITOCHONDRIA. These organelles in us are derived from mother only. Father does not contribute mitochondria at birth. Hence, no matter what we do, it is the female Shakti, in the dynamic form in universe that allows us to enjoy and appreciate the world! This emphasizes our understanding of Shakti which is so ancient!
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
Sufism blended both bhakti and jnana well.
Somehow it got the best of both worlds and with formless worship and no Varna ashrama its a very ideal "Non Dual"
Why this obsession with worship of formless. Or the meaningless worship of Shunya. LOL.
It is just empty or Shunya and there is nothing to worship there.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Why this obsession with worship of formless. Or the meaningless worship of Shunya. LOL.
It is just empty or Shunya and there is nothing to worship there.
When one becomes " blind" to anything created one's heart starts to see.

Its not an obsession...its a gravitation.
Shunyam is not Nothing..
Shunyam is No -Thing.
 

sravna

Well-known member
Shri Vaagmi,

Fascination towards nothing means ultimate detachment as nothing attracts them. A very desirable and enviable state to be in.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Why this obsession with worship of formless. Or the meaningless worship of Shunya. LOL.
It is just empty or Shunya and there is nothing to worship there.
Dear Vaagmi Ji,

I won't word the question as how you did and ask you "why this obsession with worship of form or the meaningless worship of Purnam"

rather I would ask you "tell me the beauty of worshiping a form and the meaningful worship of the Purnam"

You might think why I called it beauty of form and meaningful Purnam since I prefer formless and "shunyam"

Well, its about how we look at things.

If one loves a created form its fine too but just imagine that the hands that never saw created a form that the heart can love.

Now what if we empty everything we know and make ourselves a receptacle, yes! "Shunyam" to be filled up by the "Purnam" that no man saw, no man made,no man described?
Can anyone replicate that?
 

sravna

Well-known member
Whether something has a meaning or not is subjective in mundane reality. If you say something done by others is meaningless it says nothing more than saying that you are unable to see the other side.
 
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sravna

Well-known member
folks, the safest bet is to be empathetic if you do not want to pull the carpet from under your own feet
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
When one becomes " blind" to anything created one's heart starts to see.

Its not an obsession...its a gravitation.
Shunyam is not Nothing..
Shunyam is No -Thing.
Obsession is not gravitation. Nothing is not No thing etc., etc.,So an attempt at clever play with words. I am a simple straightforward learner and jijnasa. So please tell me what is there in Shunya or vacuum.

When one becomes blind to things created one becomes just blind. He cannot see anything with heart or anything else because seeing involves recalling from previous record and comparing. Where is the recorded items in this case. This has been discussed exhaustively by Acharyas while exploring the ultimate authority of Vedas. Please read again.
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
[

I won't word the question as how you did and ask you "why this obsession with worship of form or the meaningless worship of Purnam"

Form is tangible and is withibn the coordinates of human perception. So the beauty can be appreciated. In Shunyam there is nothing and there is no beauty either because beauty is just an adjective of something.

If one loves a created form its fine too but just imagine that the hands that never saw created a form that the heart can love.

It is a form which you see around you in your life every day in home in dream and everywhere. So heart loves without any struggle. Shunyam is not so. There is nothing in it.

Now what if we empty everything we know and make ourselves a receptacle, yes! "Shunyam" to be filled up by the "Purnam" that no man saw, no man made,no man described?

perception will be all !@#$%^&*(). Are you able to make out anything?

It ultimately boils down to this: Maya/projection etc., etc.,,, were all invented to explain the flaws in the original argument about perception. They pathetically failed.
 

renuka

Well-known member
[

I won't word the question as how you did and ask you "why this obsession with worship of form or the meaningless worship of Purnam"

Form is tangible and is withibn the coordinates of human perception. So the beauty can be appreciated. In Shunyam there is nothing and there is no beauty either because beauty is just an adjective of something.

If one loves a created form its fine too but just imagine that the hands that never saw created a form that the heart can love.

It is a form which you see around you in your life every day in home in dream and everywhere. So heart loves without any struggle. Shunyam is not so. There is nothing in it.

Now what if we empty everything we know and make ourselves a receptacle, yes! "Shunyam" to be filled up by the "Purnam" that no man saw, no man made,no man described?

perception will be all !@#$%^&*(). Are you able to make out anything?

It ultimately boils down to this: Maya/projection etc., etc.,,, were all invented to explain the flaws in the original argument about perception. They pathetically failed.
You sound very Wahabi! That is only your way is the right way!LOL

Adi Shankara was spending lots of time talking about Maya to explain the Brahman concept.

In Sufism they do mention about the Veil but they do not harp on it as much and the emphasis is more into getting in contact with the Divine essence.

The works of Nagarjuna does not talk of Maya as much..its more about how to become Non dual

How we perceive the attributes of God be it His 99 names or 1000 names is very much tru our senses so there would be the perceiver , the perceived and the perception.

Now, in a state where the perceiver, the perceived and the perception cease to exists..what do you call that?

Just imagine you are in a house of mirrors which show you the reflection of yourself and the reflection of each attribute of God and suddenly you go into a deep sleep... everything would be "shunyam" that is whatever you witness though it is still present in front of you if you wake up does not really exist anymore cos you are no more using your senses...hence no perceiver, no perceived and no perception.

Today go home and when you are in deep sleep NON REM sleep tell me if you felt Vishnu exists.
I am not saying He doesnt but what I am saying at one state nothing exists to play the Perceiver, the Perceived and the Perception...you can choose to call this state Shunyam or Purnam..the definition doesnt really make a difference.
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
You sound very Wahabi! That is only your way is the right way!LOL

I give up. I thought we were discussing. LOL.
 

renuka

Well-known member
You sound very Wahabi! That is only your way is the right way!LOL

I give up. I thought we were discussing. LOL.
Dont give up.
Keep discussing.

Ok you are not a Wahabi.
You are a Vishnu Habib(One who loves Vishnu)
 

a-TB

Well-known member
Why this obsession with worship of formless. Or the meaningless worship of Shunya. LOL.
It is just empty or Shunya and there is nothing to worship there.
Formless worship makes no sense. People who talk that way are clueless

Form based worship is childish. Most of such people are greedy and insecure. They just want a God as an accomplice for their worldly and mischief-making activities. They want money and this & that and say I love you God. Most tend to be hypocrites and fight with which form represents a real God.

Plight of humanity is indeed a sad one. That Supreme power has given the ability to think and human wants to believe some stories and superstitions while muting their thinking faculty. May that God save them
 

a-TB

Well-known member
Maya is something that appears to exist but not there. I am sure there are better definitions. But in spirit it is like this thread - seems to have content but no useful content based on real knowledge. That such threads appear every so often is also Maya only.
 

jaythakar

Member
Maya is something that appears to exist but not there. I am sure there are better definitions. But in spirit it is like this thread - seems to have content but no useful content based on real knowledge. That such threads appear every so often is also Maya only.
So you did get the Maya aspect. Now let us seek Brahman!
 

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