Iyer's Corner

[renuka]

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http://www.ssc.su.ac.th/

 

[natkaushik]

I heard that a german university has doctorate level courses in Sanskrit, and even in India we may be having some universities teaching these courses. A village in India communicates primarily in Sanskrit. Source: Internet search engine. Considering all these, I doubt Sanskrit will vanish. But the big Q raised by this thread, is, if we as Tamil Brahmins responsible for the situation? IMHO, the socio-economic situations push us TamBrahms (hard-working, self-respecting, mostly god-fearing individuals) to adapt, survive, ride the change and in that quest we tend to put certain things on the back-burner. In this complex scenario how can we blame ourselves?

Welcome Shri Ganesh,
You are right that Sanskrit will survive without any effort from Tambrahms,Thank God! If you are okay with that, then there is nothing more to be done. If however you would like to restore the position of Sanskrit in our culture then, get together a group of like-minded people and start in earnest to do something about it. Is it that " the push to adapt, survive ...."left sufficient time for Tambrahms to read novels,watch movies and test cricket,but no time for Sanskrit??
best of Luck!!!

 

[tbs]

http://www.ssc.su.ac.th/

hi
thanks...nice to know abt 14th world sanskrit conference......i like to go there...but im not sure....but my professor shri v kutumba

sastry is there....thank u again....

 

[natkaushik]

Vaman Sivaram Apte (1858-1892)
A legend who achieved so much for Sanskrit Education.
Achievements:

1)Practical Sanskrit-English Dictionary.

2)Student's English-Sanskrit Dictionary.

3)Student's Guide to Sanskrit Composition.

and a few more books.

 

[natkaushik]

With so many viewers and posts for this thread, it is evident that there is a great enthusiasm for improving our Sanskrit knowledge, at least to the extent of being able to understand the Slokas and mantras we chant..It would be wonderful (and feasible) if we could aquire the ability to communicate in written form, if not orally in Sanskrit.

Is Sanskrit a difficult language?
The following mantras (among others) from Atharva Veda have been cited by Dr. Narendra, in his book, “संस्कृतस्य व्यवहारिकस्वरूपम् Functional Sanskrit: its Communicative aspect“*), to show that it is not so.He has given hundreds of similar examples.
*(Published by Sir Aurobindo Ashram-www.saice.org/sanskrit)

यत्र ब्रह्मविदो यान्ति दीक्षया तपसा सह,
आग्निर्मा तत्र नयतु अग्निर्मेधा दधातु मे.
अग्नये स्वाहा.

यत्र ब्रह्मविदो यान्ति दीक्षया तपसा सह,
वायुर्मा तत्र नयतु वायुर्प्राणान् दधातु मे.
वायवे स्वाहा.
……
Is it not possible for each of us to identify words and phrases(say 200 words) of everyday usage from Newspapers, books etc. (Tamil/english/Hindi) and get the Sanskrit equivalent? Over a period of time, say six months, we would have sufficient word-power to venture writing in Sanskrit.

 

[renuka]

With so many viewers and posts for this thread, it is evident that there is a great enthusiasm for improving our Sanskrit knowledge, at least to the extent of being able to understand the Slokas and mantras we chant..It would be wonderful (and feasible) if we could aquire the ability to communicate in written form, if not orally in Sanskrit.

Is Sanskrit a difficult language?
The following mantras (among others) from Atharva Veda have been cited by Dr. Narendra, in his book, “संस्कृतस्य व्यवहारिकस्वरूपम्Functional Sanskrit: its Communicative aspect“*), to show that it is not so.He has given hundreds of similar examples.
*(Published by Sir Aurobindo Ashram-www.saice.org/sanskrit)

यत्र ब्रह्मविदो यान्ति दीक्षया तपसा सह,
आग्निर्मा तत्र नयतु अग्निर्मेधादधातु मे.
अग्नये स्वाहा.

यत्र ब्रह्मविदो यान्ति दीक्षया तपसा सह,
वायुर्मा तत्र नयतु वायुर्प्राणान् दधातु मे.
वायवे स्वाहा.
……
Is it not possible for each of us to identify words and phrases(say 200 words) of everyday usage from Newspapers, books etc. (Tamil/english/Hindi) and get the Sanskrit equivalent? Over a period of time, say six months, we would have sufficient word-power to venture writing in Sanskrit.

Vedic Sanskrit grammar is very different from regular Sanskrit grammar..it comes under a separate classification itself.

BTW some shlokas are also Pre Paninian..that is before Paninis standardized Sanskrit Grammar.

Will give an example:

ओम् भद्रं कर्णेभिः शृणुयाम देवाः ।
भद्रं पश्येमाशभिर्यजत्राः ॥
om bhadraṁ karṇebhiḥ śṛṇuyāma devāḥ |
bhadraṁ paśyemāśabhir-yajatrāḥ ||
Oh Gods,
may we hear Good with our ears, |
may we see Good with our eyes,
when we carry out the sacrifice. ||


karnebhih (कर्णेभिः, karṇebhiḥ) = through the ears, with the ears

One might wonder why its and not KarNAbhyAm since ears are 2(dual) in number..even if the shloka wants to mean all the ears of the those who are hearing it(plural) it would have been KarNaiH.

But what we see here is KarNebhiH?..some other form of grammar?? Why??

Set me wondering why this is different and made sure I got to know why and ask a Vidwan in India and he said its becos KarNebhiH was used before Panini standardized grammar.

So when it comes to mantras and shlokas we have to bear in mind the differences in grammar too.

 

[renuka]

BookBox


Click on this site.

It has animated stories in 15 languages and Sanskrit is one of them..narrated with wordings too.

You will see change language option..click on it and change the language to Sanskrit.

​

​

 

[renuka]

pANini aShTaadhyaayii sUtra paaThaH (audio)

 

[biswa]

Is it true that nobody ever spoke Sanskrit? It was just a literary language?

 

[natkaushik]

since भाषा means ''spoken form'' and भाष्यम् is in the form of oral explanation to students, and there are dramas in sanskrit, It was definitely spoken by at least some sections of the society. Of course in sanskrit dramas, the ladies and servants spoke prakritham while the high society gentlemen spoke Samskritham.

 

[natkaushik]

It is laudable that some of us have the interest to discuss Samskrita usage in veda's and its comformity or otherwise with Panini's sutras.(Incidently, there is a forum viz-"https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/samskrita" where one can get answer to any doubts on Samskritam).
Could we carry that interest forward for ""developing"" Samskritam as a tool for communication?What efforts should one make to develope the skill for practical use of Samskritam?We use Tamil without learning 'Nannul'.We speak Hindi with a limited knowledge of its Grammar. Then why not Samskritam, which we have been 'studying' throughout our lives?

 

[sangom]

Samskrutam or the vedic language which preceded it, were, both, languages of the elite. The vast majority of the common people of Bharathavarsha did not speak these languages nor were they familiar with these. That is why Siddhartha Gautama (Buddha) used the Pali language which was the lingo of the populace.

While many north indian languages have evolved from samskrutam, it is generally not an easy task for even the north Indians to converse in Sanskrit. The south had historically been Dravidian, and despite all our efforts at professing brahminism, our mother tongue, Tamil, is most dissimilar to Sanskrit. Besides all these, what use is there today in learning sanskrit ? Hence, I think the present effort - to communicate in sanskrit - has little chance of success.

 

[natkaushik]

प्रारभ्यते न खलु विघ्नभयेन... प्रारब्दमुत्तमजनाः न परित्यजन्ति़,
Dear Mr.Sangom,
I can sense a feeling of regret in you, when you say that 'the effort to communicate in sanskrit has littlle chance of success'.We all realise that to communicate in Samskritam will be futile,unnecessary and a pipe dream.Let us atleast find out what steps are required to be taken, what resources are required, if one ,with intermediate knowledge of Samskritam, wants to cultivate the ability.Kindly share your suggestions.
(also Dr Renuka)

 

[tbs]

प्रारभ्यते न खलु विघ्नभयेन... प्रारब्दमुत्तमजनाः न परित्यजन्ति़,
Dear Mr.Sangom,
I can sense a feeling of regret in you, when you say that 'the effort to communicate in sanskrit has littlle chance of success'.We all realise that to communicate in Samskritam will be futile,unnecessary and a pipe dream.Let us atleast find out what steps are required to be taken, what resources are required, if one ,with intermediate knowledge of Samskritam, wants to cultivate the ability.Kindly share your suggestions.
(also Dr Renuka)

hi
just add more...AARAMBHA SOORAH KHALU DAAKSHINAATYAAHA......आरम्भ सूराः खलु दाक्षिणात्याः .....

 

[mskmoorthy]

The word thug seems to derive from a sanskrit word स्थगति

According to this article What A Thug's Life Looked Like In 19th Century India : Code Switch : NPR

Please read the comments too -

 

[renuka]

प्रारभ्यते न खलु विघ्नभयेन... प्रारब्दमुत्तमजनाः न परित्यजन्ति़,
Dear Mr.Sangom,
I can sense a feeling of regret in you, when you say that 'the effort to communicate in sanskrit has littlle chance of success'.We all realise that to communicate in Samskritam will be futile,unnecessary and a pipe dream.Let us atleast find out what steps are required to be taken, what resources are required, if one ,with intermediate knowledge of Samskritam, wants to cultivate the ability.Kindly share your suggestions.
(also Dr Renuka)

Dear Natkaushik,

Just make an effort to think in Sanskrit..that will help conversation.

I write all my daily events down in Sanskrit in a booklet..just anything..even random thoughts.

I do not think of Sanskrit as divine etc..I think of it as just a language ..so in my book I pen down any thought or any word.

Since I teach my son Sanskrit I do include conversational lessons with him...so we can just speak a few words with each other..for fun sake.

To learn a language we need to enjoy it..so when I am angry now I say "Narakam Gaccha" instead of saying it in English..English equivalent is Go to Hell.

The problem with Sanskrit is everyone tries to make it divine...once you make something divine..it ceases to exists..cos we cant really understand divinity.

Just like Love..people call it Deiviga Kadhal and ruin the fun when it actually a cocktail of hormones.

So same way..let Sanskrit be a language and nothing more..only then we can enjoy it and let it be accessible to all.

 

[natkaushik]

Dear Renuka
you are right in saying that we consider संस्कृतम् as देवभाषा,and if we commit any mistake while using
it we will be committing a sin.One way to overcome this mindset is to call it ,लौकिकम् ,सुकृतम्,नैसर्गिकम् or something similiar instead of संस्कृतम्.
Your two actions are worth emulating viz:-
1) Try to think in Samskritam,meaning thinking out how to say in Sanskrit, what you read or
think.
2) Write down what you think may be useful for improving your Sanskrit language skills.
hope others too will come up with their experiences.

for my part I am trying to compile a basic vocabulary of about 2500 words, which together with
idioms and phrases would be enough to express oneself in Sanskrit.I have just completed 300
words.
(These words have been identified in a study of word-frequency,in US UK, France and Germany
and are used in teaching of German to english or french knowing people.)
the final step should be to communicate your output for others' benefit possibly through blogs.
The most important step to be taken is to identify a date after which you will start writing in
sanskrit,starting with tweets may be.This date should be announced to everybody, so that there is
a deadline to meet.
thanks to tbs for encouraging words.Well begun is half done.
दोषभीतेः अनारम्भम् तत् कापुरुषलक्षंणम्. कैः अजीर्णभयात् भोजनम् परिहीयते.

 

[renuka]

The most important step to be taken is to identify a date after which you will start writing in
sanskrit,starting with tweets may be.This date should be announced to everybody, so that there is
a deadline to meet.

Dear Natkaushik,

Not so soon cos now I am busy studying Paninis Sutras and its very vast and very interesting to study.

I was told that it is not possible to self study Paninis Grammar but I think its possible to self study Panini's Sutras if we have the right notes from a person who explains well.

If you are interested to study Paninis Sutra in detail..check out this website started by a medical doctor from USA...really wonderful..he is a genius..he explains so well that we can surely self study it by reading his notes.

Once I have mastered Paninis Sutras I will attempt to write some blogs..so not so soon.

BTW its good to recite Paninis Sutras by memory too cos it helps us understand the anuvritti better.

I spend quite a lot of time these days on Panini's Sutras that at times I start to think "shouldn't I be reciting Bhajo Govindam?? instead I am committing to memory the Dukren Karane!LOL

BTW this is the website I was talking about..

https://sites.google.com/site/samskritavyakaranam/

 

[sneelakantan48]

Even 50 or 60 years ago we were not so materialistic as we are today. The reason is purely selfish....to be on par if not better than one's peers. Today we become religious and learn veda and other rituals after retirement. This is true of most of the people and probably necessary. The current logic is learn, earn and live comfortably. Sanskrit can not help in this and hence no wonder it is vanishing from our midst. No need to feel sad about it if individually one can not do anything

Bangalore Brahmana Sabha regularly conducts Sanskrit classes teaching basic spoken Sanskrit withour any fees.

 

[natkaushik]

जय जय शंकर हर हर शंकर​

With a great sigh wrenched from their hearts, the devoties of Kanchi Mutt heard the news of the aquittal of the Senior and Junior seers as also the other accused. Rather than proving a conspiracy to murder, the trial has brought to light, a conspiracy, driven by personal vendetta, to demolish a 2500 old institution, which had stood as a bulwark against the onslaught of theologies brought by successive invaders. This has resulted in the real killer of Sankararaman not being apprehended.

It is shocking that in these days of liberalism, there are forces which, under the garb of social activism, act as stooges of foreign anti-brahmin (in reality anti-Hindu) forces. The demonstation against the verdict by some elements and the crocodile tears shed by them for the victim’s family bring it out clearly. Regrettably, there is no organised outcry against such acts.The Brahmins are too timid, and the others are indifferent.

 

[natkaushik]

Organised Sanskrit Usage
Almost all of Tabras would have studied Sanskrit upto Cass12 (प्रायः सर्वैरपि ताब्रासदस्यैः संस्कृतं 12तमं वर्गं यावत् अधीतं भवेत् ।).Still I for one,find it difficult to recollect the appropriate words to express myself in Sanskrit.For example, to write the first sentence in Sanskrit,I had to wrestle with my memory and consult a dictionary.
The reason - The Sanskrit lessons in school were tailored for explaining the grammar thoroughly and not for developing the faculty to use Sanskrit.The vocabulary one learns is almost totally different from the vocabulary one acquires in his mother-tongue from childhood onwards.
This mis-match between excellent grammar and poor vocabulary could be overcome if one tabulates all the actions(verbs) he has done or been done to him while growing up.From this basic set one can build collections of other parts of speech in the usual manner viz., by adding questions to verb (who,why etc.).
For example-
words associated with babies would be-जायते, प्रसूते,निद्राति,जागर्ति,लालयति and so on.By the age of 15 the vocabulary would have reached the desired level for one to be able to express himself in Sanskrit.
I look forward to responses, suggestions and participants for compilation of the thesaurus.

 

[renuka]

Dear Nat,

There is no mismatch..every language has its own way of expression..that is why it always better to think in Sanskrit.

Like for example..sometimes when a friend of mine who also knows Sanskrit calls me and I am busy seeing a patient..I will tell the person "Ekakinii Naasmi..Sambhaashanam Na Saknomi..Tadanaantaram Vadishyaami"

It just means "I am not alone..unable to talk..will talk to you later"

Its not too hard if we start to think in Sanskrit.

 

[natkaushik]

Dear Nat,

There is no mismatch..every language has its own way of expression..that is why it always better to think in Sanskrit.

Like for example..sometimes when a friend of mine who also knows Sanskrit calls me and I am busy seeing a patient..I will tell the person "Ekakinii Naasmi..Sambhaashanam Na Saknomi..Tadanaantaram Vadishyaami"

It just means "I am not alone..unable to talk..will talk to you later"

Its not too hard if we start to think in Sanskrit.

Dear Renuka,

As Exressed by me earlier, I admire and envy persons like you who can think in Sanskrit. I am one of those who find it difficult to do so because of "Mismatch" between grammar and vocabulary as learnt at school.Without essential vocabulary and a good grasp of grammar one cannot start thinking in any language. If you are able to think in Sanskrit,it means that your vocabulary is extensive. It would be valuable if you could share the same with others. Kindly post your views in Sanskrit so that others are also encouraged to do the same.

 

[renuka]

Dear Nat,

Actually to think in Sanskrit..one does not need to have an extensive vocabulary...all one needs is constant practice.

Always keep in touch with simple basic stuff.

Daily do some simple translation exercises from English to Sanskrit and Vice Versa...after a while we will get a hang of thinking in Sanskrit.

The best is when we start off do not look for perfection..just step by step and accept flaws too.

We Indians have a tendency to want perfection too fast too soon.

When I was teen I could not speak Tamil well..only after reaching adulthood my spoken Tamil improved but all along the way whenever I made mistakes in speaking Tamilians out here would just laugh at my face asking me why I spoke weird sounding Tamil but I gave a damn..I still went on speaking imperfect Tamil till I spoke it well and now when I see Bangladeshi workers trying to learn to speak Tamil..I always encourage and praise them so that they get motivated to speak Tamil and in return I ask them to teach me some simple basic Bengali words to help me communicate with them and they are happy to teach me too.

So same way..when it comes to Sanskrit..accept the fact that perfection is not always actually possible and just keep trying and also keep reading simple stories to improve vocabulary.

Kindly subscribe to Samskrita Bharati's Sambhashana Sandeshah monthly magazine..it really helps improve vocabulary.

BTW writing perfectly in Sanskrit takes time..its takes lots of effort and patience.

 

[renuka]

The simple translation lesson I am doing today has a sentence like this to translate to Sanskrit.So may be you can try to translate this for a start.

All animals become old. A yogi alone does not become old by the strength of Yoga.Do you know how a Yogi does not become old?