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Iyer's Corner

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kunjuppu said:
......... 1. raji meant two groups, TBs and wannabeTBs who live in delhi. the local TB go for the unionized vathiars, where i believe there is a strict hierarchy, as per all unions, and union rates, and union level of competence ;)

2. so, if you want a vathiar who probably knows a little more mandhrams or has a little more panache style (read private enterprise) one goes to bangalore. please note that it is not chennai or thanjavur or kumbakonam, as these are considered 'naattupporam' by the wannabeTBs.....
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adak kadavuLE - 1: Prof Sir wrote as 'wannabe TBs' and not me! :D

adak kadavuLE - 2: Sing. Chennaiyum nAttuppuRamA?? :confused:
 
biswa said:
I think that maybe we should clarify the first order logic.

A implies B (A => B) does not necessarily mean that B => A

So Brahmin => Politeness (ideally) does not necessarily mean that Politeness => Brahmin.

If A => B does really mean that B => A, then we say that A is equivalent to B.

It did not appear to me (personally) that Mr. Brahmanyan was claiming the equivalence of Brahminness and Politeness (that is everybody who is polite is a Brahmin and vice versa).
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Dear shri Biswa
As per "first order logic"
If A=> B then not B => Not A

so if politeness=> Brahmin then not Brahmin => rudeness. I am sure Mr Brahmanyam did not mean that way. I wanted to point out that being a brahmin is much more than being polite.
 
Dear sir,

The spoken sanskrit (10 day)course is the prerequisite for enrolling in the 'pravesh' (beginner's )course of Samskrita Bharathi.You can draw your own conclusions about its standard.The need for brahmins to study sanskrit is not because they should converse in sanskrit, but because they have to study the scriptures, Dharmasastras, and other works and be of service to the society.
 
Dear RR,
One spends about 3 to 4 lakhs alone on food in a marriage. Then why grudge 50000+ for sastrigals, who form a bridge between the vara vatu and the 33000 devas blessing the couple. one does not mind spending 30000 on muhurtha podavai, worn may be three of four times in its lifetime, but feel giving dakshina to sastrigal as an extortion.
 
natkaushik said:
Dear RR,
One spends about 3 to 4 lakhs alone on food in a marriage. Then why grudge 50000+ for sastrigals, who form a bridge between the vara vatu and the 33000 devas blessing the couple. one does not mind spending 30000 on muhurtha podavai, worn may be three of four times in its lifetime, but feel giving dakshina to sastrigal as an extortion.
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i agree 100% with you. though what i hear, those days are gone. today, it is more demand than what supply can meet, now that we have nouveau brahmins like karunanidhi and such, whose families, comfortably have eschewed periyar's atheism, for the traditional and new found poojas.

soon time may come, when the vathiars would refuse to come to a brahmin household, because we are so cheap, when NB are willing to pay more generously for their services.
 
kunjuppu said:
i would think, for example, a wannabeTB of mumbai would be siddharth kapoor who married our combined heart throb vidya balan. .. similarly i presume there are equivalents among the highups of delhi ;)
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No, no, at the risk of feeding our VB obsession (as one member put it) let me say this. I dont think SRK is a wannabeTB, as he doesnt seem to have picked up any TB characteristics (doesnt know Tamil, didnt accompany his wife to a recent Carnatic concert). On the other hand, VB seems to be a wannabe Punjabi since she knows Hindi and may be even picking up Punjabi as per her latest movie.

Delhi6, do you, wannabe, TB? :D
 
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There seems to be private conversation unrelated to the thread going on.May I request that the side show be taken elsewhere, where vadyar bashing srk etc are apreciated??Thanks.
 
natkaushik said:
Dear RR,
One spends about 3 to 4 lakhs alone on food in a marriage. Then why grudge 50000+ for sastrigals, who form a bridge between the vara vatu and the 33000 devas blessing the couple. one does not mind spending 30000 on muhurtha podavai, worn may be three of four times in its lifetime, but feel giving dakshina to sastrigal as an extortion.
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Dear Sir,

I am not blaming the sAsthrigaL. All I wanted to mention is that Sanskrit knowledge DOES help learned people to get

good money. FYI, we gave 8 K as fees for performing our grand daughter's Ayush hOmam last year! :)
 
natkaushik said:
There seems to be private conversation unrelated to the thread going on.May I request that the side show be taken elsewhere, where vadyar bashing srk etc are apreciated??Thanks.
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Nobody is going to listen to you. Please take yourself elsewhere if you want to be appreciated. Just because you started this thread, doesnt mean you own it. Only Praveen owns everything in this forum.
 
natkaushik said:
There seems to be private conversation unrelated to the thread going on.May I request that the side show be taken elsewhere, where vadyar bashing srk etc are apreciated??Thanks.
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Dear sir,

Actually that private conversation is like the comedy track we see in movies where it runs parallel to the main story.

BTW I request members to kindly reserve the usage of SRK for Shah Rukh Khan only!LOL(just kidding)
 
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Surely there are nicer ways to say somethings...and I wonder who'd actually give a like for such a mean spirited post :(
 
amala said:
Surely there are nicer ways to say somethings...and I wonder who'd actually give a like for such a mean spirited post :(
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You don't already know??

It shows on the profile..who clicked like for what and who last visited that page.
 
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Learning is effective only when it is self-initiated. Support from outside can strengthen it. But nothing can happen without the effort from the person wishing to learn. Learning Sanskrit is no different.

Some people make efforts to learn the language to possess knowledge. One of the members of this forum is even taking up exams in Sanskrit. (This member is a self-declared non-brahmin!).
I don’t think that one loses ‘brahminhood’ (if there is any such thing!) by not knowing Sanskrit. Most of the slokas are in Sanskrit and a lay man (me, for example) chants it without understanding the meaning most of the times. But I don’t think it could be categorized as “dukkunjkarane”.

Most ‘South Indians’ in South Africa do their prayers in Tamil without knowing the language. It is the devotion that matters and not the language, necessarily.

The opportunity to learn Sanskrit is limited. The opportunity to use the language is even more limited. In this material world, people go by what is useful and Sanskrit is not a priority for people at large.


Please note that I am interested in Sanskrit. I took effort in my young days to learn Sanskrit privately (since our school did not offer Sanskrit). In my degree also I opted for Sanskrit. So, I am in no way an opponent of Sanskrit. All that I am saying is that the actions of people are often need based. Since they do not see a need (or use) for Sanskrit, there is not much effort to learn the language. But such apathy does not make a person inferior at all. There could be many reasons for it.
 
siva,

i met south african tamils a long time ago, for the first time in mylife, in toronto. i used to attend their social functions. always used to start with some tamil hymn - but written in roman script and absolutely mispronounced..but with a fervour nevertheless.

one of my dreams is to visit durban and see a few of the tamil temples there :)
 
Yes. South Indian community is concentrated in Durban. But they are all over the country. There are Tamil temples in Johannesburg too. Prayers (bajans) are done in Tamil in these temples. Unfortunately, the language is ‘diluted’ through the generations. Gujarati community keeps its language intact.
 
Haridasa Siva said:
Yes. South Indian community is concentrated in Durban. But they are all over the country. There are Tamil temples in Johannesburg too. Prayers (bajans) are done in Tamil in these temples. Unfortunately, the language is ‘diluted’ through the generations. Gujarati community keeps its language intact.
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i think the gujaratis had more interaction with the mother country than tamils, who i think were isolated from inda for those 50 years of apartheid. also these were original indentured labourers, unlike the gujjus who were merchants. that is my take. i may be wrong.

there is efforts now, i hear, by the indian embassy to hold tamil classes. not sure how successful it is.

but it is amazing how the tamil community has prospered, considering where they began their life. though there i suspect, there is deep misgivings the way racial politics is moving in south africa, and indians caught between the whites and the blacks.
 
Haridasa Siva said:
Learning is effective only when it is self-initiated. Support from outside can strengthen it. But nothing can happen without the effort from the person wishing to learn. Learning Sanskrit is no different.

Some people make efforts to learn the language to possess knowledge. One of the members of this forum is even taking up exams in Sanskrit. (This member is a self-declared non-brahmin!).
I don’t think that one loses ‘brahminhood’ (if there is any such thing!) by not knowing Sanskrit. Most of the slokas are in Sanskrit and a lay man (me, for example) chants it without understanding the meaning most of the times. But I don’t think it could be categorized as “dukkunjkarane”.

Most ‘South Indians’ in South Africa do their prayers in Tamil without knowing the language. It is the devotion that matters and not the language, necessarily.

The opportunity to learn Sanskrit is limited. The opportunity to use the language is even more limited. In this material world, people go by what is useful and Sanskrit is not a priority for people at large.


Please note that I am interested in Sanskrit. I took effort in my young days to learn Sanskrit privately (since our school did not offer Sanskrit). In my degree also I opted for Sanskrit. So, I am in no way an opponent of Sanskrit. All that I am saying is that the actions of people are often need based. Since they do not see a need (or use) for Sanskrit, there is not much effort to learn the language. But such apathy does not make a person inferior at all. There could be many reasons for it.
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Dear Shri Siva,

Dukrinj karaNE (डुकृञ्करणे - in Devanagari) does not apply to reciting slokas froglike; it is a grammatical rule which refers to the parasmaipada and Atmanepada forms of the verb root (dhAtu) kru meaning "to do".
Repeating mechanically whatever the sound one learns is referred to even in the rigveda as frog-like rendering. Knowing what one is uttering is different from just mechanically sounding. For example take this "dukkunjkarane" itself. You are uttering something without any meaning whatsoever. The lack of sanskrit knowledge definitely goes to make an inferior brahmin; it is like crow and a cuckoo. Let us admit this deficiency with all humility at our command and let us not try to justify our "practice" of not knowing sanskrit with legends like bhakti is more valuable than vibhakti, etc.
 
Haridasa Siva said:
....Most ‘South Indians’ in South Africa do their prayers in Tamil without knowing the language. It is the devotion that matters and not the language, necessarily.
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Dear HS, SV texts are full of similar sentiment. They even ridicule scholarly learning as utterly useless when compared to devotion and faith. They say that all the scholarly learning will leave you like a newly hatched bird leaves the cracked egg shell behind if it is free of true knowledge, namely Sriman Narayana is the supreme and they/he are/is the one and only savior..

But I feel such a stance encourages superstition. If devotion is all that matters why try to learn anything at all, why even look beyond what you already have deep faith in.

On a personal level, if blind devotion gives solace to some individuals, who am I to criticize that. However, on a larger scale, I don't think it is wise to think blind devotion trumps knowledge.

regards ...
 
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