Introduction to Vedic Astrology

[V.Balasubramani]

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Dismissing the appeal, the Court HELD: 1. Astrology is a science, which claims to foretell the future or make predictions by studying the supposed influence of the relative positions of the moon, sun, planets and other stars on human affairs. It, therefore, requires study of celestial bodies, of their positions, magnitudes, motions, and distances, etc. Astronomy is a pure science. It was studied as a subject in ancient India and India has produced great astronomers, long before anyone in the western world studied it as a subject. Since Astrology is partly based upon the study of movement of sun, earth, planets and other celestial bodies, it is a study of science at least to some extent. [198-F-G] Webster's International Dictionary and Encyclopedia Britannica, 2nd Edn., referred to.​

Athimber Ji,

I really appreciate the efforts taken by you to substantiate your point.

The cited judgement may prove beyond any reasonable doubt the decision conveyed by the Hon’ble court.

Keep it up.

Hope after going through such a judgment, the Hon’ble members will set their mind at rest….!!.

Of course, if they do think that they have valid points to counter, they are free to knock the doors of the Hon'ble Court.

But the million dollar question is WILL THEY DO????

IMHO, it is easy to get tempted to contribute in such threads in GD but not that much easy in getting a favourable judgement from the court of law.

Let them shoot........

 

[V.Balasubramani]

This thread belongs in the Ritual section, because it is faith based.

Now that it is estableshed by the pronouciation of Supreme Court of India that it is science, I think that the thread opener is right in opening the thread in GD.

 

[auh]

...

Dismissing the appeal, the Court HELD: 1. Astrology is a science, which claims to foretell the future or make predictions by studying the supposed influence of the relative positions of the moon, sun, planets and other stars on human affairs. It, therefore, requires study of celestial bodies, of their positions, magnitudes, motions, and distances, etc. Astronomy is a pure science. It was studied as a subject in ancient India and India has produced great astronomers, long before anyone in the western world studied it as a subject. Since Astrology is partly based upon the study of movement of sun, earth, planets and other celestial bodies, it is a study of science at least to some extent. [198-F-G] Webster's International Dictionary and Encyclopedia Britannica, 2nd Edn., referred to. 2. Courts are not experts in academic matters and it is not for them to decide as what course should be taught in university and what should be their curriculum. [199-B] University of Mysore v. Govinda Rao, AIR (1965) SC 491 and J.P. Kulshreshtha v. Chancellor, Allahabad University, [1980] 3 SCC 418, relied on. 3. The precise question as to whether `Jyotir Vigyan' should be included as a course of study having been considered and examined by an Expert Body of the UGC and they having recommended for incfuding the said course for study and award of degree in universities, it will not be proper for this Court to interfere with the aforesaid decision specially when no violation of any statutory provisions is demonstrated. [200-A-B] 4. It is not possible to accept the appellants' contention that the prescription of `Jyotir Vigyan' as a course of study has the effect of saffronising the education or that it in any manner militates against the concept of secularism which is a part of the basic structure of the Constitution and is essential for the governance of the country. [200-B-C] DAY College v. State of Punjab, [1971] 2 SCC 269 and Santosh Kumar v. Secretary Ministry of Human Resources, [1994] 6 SCC 579, relied on. Dr. K. Natarajan v. Union of India, (WP No. 13540 of 2001) (Mad.), approved. Susan Epperson v. State of Arkansas, 21 L Ed 2d 228, referred to. CIVIL APPELLATE JURISDICTION : Civil Appeal No. 5886 of 2002.
​

Going by the details of the case as given -

The main contention is that whether the Court should interfere with the policy decision of the UGC, when all relevant statutory procedures are followed. The petition before the Court was primarily not the issue of whether foretelling the future is a science or not but prima facie if the Court had the necessity to intervene in the policy decision of the UGC and if it amount to saffronising education (of propagating a particular religion).

Astrology (used to denote astronomy) is a science only so far as the study of movement of planets, constellations, and other relative celestial bodies. Prediction or foretelling is not. The basis of prediction (which is belief based) is astronomy, which is pure science.

Besides, the Court's observation seems to be heavily influenced by the central government and hence it is a no-brainer to see the erroneous line of reasoning taken in by the Court.

When this case was dismissed in the Andhra High Court, I paste a link to an article from the Frontline magazine: http://www.frontline.in/static/html/fl1812/18120970.htm

[h=2]A judicial blow[/h] The Andhra Pradesh High Court's dismissal of a writ petition against the UGC's move to introduce the study of astrology in the universities calls attention to the slippery position science and scientific temper hold in Indian society.

T. JAYARAMAN

DESPITE widespread protests from the scientific community in India and Indian scientists working abroad, despite condemnation by more than three hundred social scientists representing a broad cross-section of the field, despite sharp disapproval in newspaper editorials and opinion pieces, the University Grants Commission and the Ministry of Human Resource Development of the Government of India show no signs of withdrawing their decision to introduce "Jyotir Vigyan" or 'Vedic astrology' as a discipline of study in Indian universities.

There has been no move by the so-called 'moderate' leaders of the Bharatiya Janata Party-led government, including Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee, to announce any dialogue with the Indian scientific community on the astrology issue or to announce any re-consideration of the decision of the UGC. The Chairman of the University Grants Commission, Professor Hari Gautam, has been left free to propagate his absurd views on the subject. Dr. Murli Manohar Joshi intones that the whole idea is justified because several universities in India have responded positively to the UGC proposal. In the meantime, nobody knows who were the benighted experts who recommended to the UGC that such courses in astrology be introduced. As long as the names are not public, one is inclined to suspect strongly that it was a packed committee made up entirely of pro-astrology elements with no representatives from among leading scientists, for instance, office-bearers of the Indian science academies. One's suspicions are heightened when one notices stray tit-bits of information such as the official bio-data of Maharaj Krishen Kaw, the current Secretary, Department of Education, available on the department's web-site.

It proclaims that "Shri Kaw is deeply interested in the occult and has completed the 2-year Jyotish Acharya course from the Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, New Delhi." The astrology-as-science proposal by the UGC has clearly turned out to be of more significance than just a hare-brained scheme hatched by a group of pro-astrology enthusiasts who have accidentally got their hands on the reins of higher education in India. It has become among the most serious and significant attacks on science, the scientific temper and rationality that have been witnessed in several decades.

It is in this context that the decision of the Andhra Pradesh High Court dismissing a writ petition filed on the astrology issue is cause for deep concern. Dismissing the petition filed by Dr. P.M. Bhargava, noted molecular biologist, and two others, praying for a writ of mandamus declaring the UGC's proposal to be illegal and unconstitutional, the court observed, among other things, that "in the opinion of the experts, astrology is a subject which requires pursuit of further studies." Further, the court observed that "A statutory body, having regard to the difference in opinion, may consider the necessity to develop the spirit of enquiry which would also come within the purview of research activities." While the other legal issues referred to by the court in arriving at its decision are matters for legal experts to debate and perhaps to challenge elsewhere, the observations of the court on the status of astrology as a legitimate subject of study and instruction, to be promoted by a statutory body in the spirit of scientific enquiry, are matters that should deeply concern every scientist.

Indeed, one of the strange features of the judgment is the manner in which the court concludes that the status of astrology as a science is an open question. The judgment first quotes the Webster's Dictionary definition of astrology that states clearly that astrology was "formerly often used as equivalent to astronomy, but now restricted in meaning to the pseudo-science that claims to foretell the future..." So far so good. The judgment however now quotes the Encyclopedia Brittanica (2nd edition) to illustrate that the issue is in dispute. The quotation reads: "Defined as either a science or a pseudo-science, astrology - forecasting of earthly and human events by means of observing and interpreting the fixed stars, the Sun, the Moon and the planets - has exerted a sometimes extensive and a sometimes peripheral influence in many civilizations, both ancient and modern. As a science, astrology has been utilized to predict or affect the destinies of individuals, groups or nations by means of what is believed to be a correct understanding of the influence of the planets and stars on earthly affairs. As a pseudo-science, astrology is considered to be diametrically opposed to the findings and theories of modern Western science." The judgment goes on to conclude that thus "in the opinion of the experts, astrology is a subject which requires pursuit of further studies."

Several points are worth noting here. It is a matter of some wonder that the Andhra Pradesh High Court had available with it a copy of the 2nd edition of the Encyclopaedia Brittanica. This appeared some time in the first half of the 19th century! Surely a scientific subject would call for a more recent reference. It is interesting to read what more recent editions of the Brittanica carry on the subject of astrology.

The Internet version of the Brittanica, available free online, turns up a somewhat different version of the entry for astrology. The summary version (identical to the entry in the 15th print edition in its 1997 printing) begins by describing astrology as " a type of divination" and goes on to say: " At times regarded as a science, astrology has exerted an extensive or a peripheral influence in many civilizations, both ancient and modern. Astrology has also been defined as a pseudo-science and considered to be diametrically opposed to the theories and findings of modern science." The last paragraph, while acknowledging the hold of astrology as a popular pastime or superstition, points out that the "Copernican revolution of the 16th century dealt the geocentric worldview of astrology its shattering blow."

The longer article entry on astrology also describes astrology as a type of divination. It has two sentences beginning with the words " As a science...", which are identical to the quotation in the judgment. But it is clear from the reading of the rest of the article that these lines are an introduction to the description of astrology and its development in a historical context. The key point, with regard to a value judgment about astrology, emerges in the last section on "Astrology in modern times." Here the article debunks astrology as "the practice of what now degenerated into a pseudo-science (and) became increasingly the province of the fraudulent fortune teller." Following a brief description of the recent rise of interest in astrology, and the inability of astrology to measure up to any serious questioning or tests, the article concludes: "In short, modern Western astrology, though of great interest sociologically and popularly, generally is regarded as devoid of any intellectual value."

The 14th edition, in its 1973 printing, for instance, took an even stronger line on the subject. The entry on astrology begins as follows: "Astrology is the art or science that claims to predict events on earth by observation of the fixed stars and the sun, moon and planets." After a further brief description of the history of astrology the first sub-section on "Astrology in the West" ends with the following unambiguous statement: "As a popular pastime or superstition, however, astrology still engages the attention of millions of civilized people.... But, as a serious and sytematic world view claiming the allegiance of many of the best intellects in every rank of society, astrology is dead." A little later, the entry says: "The predictions of the astrologers do not survive the test of the experimental method. Scholarship, in its concern with the history of ideas, shows how easily genuine elements of knowledge can combine with illusory notions to form grandiose systems of thought in which the mind is content to dwell for a time."

Let me make the point that the Encyclopaedia Brittanica is not the ultimate authority on all matters. This is especially so on matters of science. But if the Hon'ble judges of the Andhra High Court cite Brittanica as the justification, along with the decisions of the so-called expert committee of the UGC, for arguing that the validity of astrology as a science was an open question, and that the writ petition was so lacking in merit that it could be dismissed at the admission stage itself, the Court clearly had to ensure that it took note of the entire entry in the Encyclopaedia and not just a few lines at the beginning.

It is noteworthy that in the judgment the entire burden of proof, that astrology is not a science, appears to lie, morally speaking, on the petitioners. To most laypersons, the first question would have been why the UGC was introducing Vedic astrology as a subject only now. If indeed 'jyotir vigyan' was a science, and the UGC has had a long record of having distinguished scientists as chairmen or members, the UGC should have introduced such courses much earlier. The Hon'ble Judges do not seem to have asked themselves this question. It would have instantly focussed attention on whether the UGC's proposals made any sense. The recommendations of the so-called experts would have been immediately suspect.

The Hon'ble Judges could have also examined, fruitfully, the consequences of allowing astrology, if indeed its status as a science is an open question, to intervene in the field of law itself. What, for instance, will become of the theory of evidence in criminal law? Will the fact that the horoscope of an accused person is of a particular nature be allowed as evidence of his propensity to do wrong? Will a person's star-signs indicate there is a greater probability that he is a murderer? Will that kind of astrological determination be admissible in a trial as expert testimony? Or will the combination of zodiacal indications be proffered as an excuse by the accused? Will he argue, contra Shakespeare, that the fault lies in the stars and not in himself? Indeed if astrology is a science, why does it have no place at all in the field of jurisprudence and law?

The answer to that question, as the Hon'ble Judges could easily have determined, is that astrology is not allowed a say for good reasons. It can pass no empirical test of any kind. It belongs firmly to the realm of occult practices and superstition. The practice of law and the administration of justice in its many forms rest firmly on the foundations of empirical evidence and not suppositions, propensities, divinations or other assorted mumbo-jumbo. By what logic then is it acceptable that astrology be regarded as an arguable science with respect to other aspects of human affairs, but not when it comes to jurisprudence and the law?

A fine example of how courts and the judiciary anywhere in the world may deal with questions of science versus pseudo-science is provided by the example of Judge William R. Overton's decision in 1982 overturning the decision of the State of Arkansas in the United States to offer balanced treatment in the state's school curriculum to evolutionary theory and creationism. (The judgment is reproduced in full for instance in Science and Creationism, ed. Ashley Montagu, Oxford University Press, 1984.) In a detailed judgment he ruled that the teaching of creationist theories of the origins of life amounted essentially to the teaching of religious belief. He held that creationist theories do not constitute science. The Overton judgment includes a fine description of what the essential characteristics of science are and how creationist theories fail to possess these characteristics. The teaching of creationist theories thus violates the separation of religion from state as well as the settled constitutional principle that the state may not foist religious beliefs on its citizens.

By the criteria for science formulated in the Overton decision, it is absolutely clear that astrology must be declared a pseudo-science. But there is perhaps more to learn from the similarities in the creationism case in Arkansas and cases challenging the teaching of astrology in Indian universities. As several scientists in India have argued, the teaching of astrology is equivalent to the teaching of a particular belief system, since astrology is not a science at all. As Justice Alladi Kuppuswami, former Chief Justice of the Andhra High Court, points out in a learned article alongside, this will be in violation of Article 28(1) of the Chapter on Fundamental Rights. The Article forbids provision of religious instruction in any institution wholly maintained out of state funds.

One would have thought that basic knowledge and clarity on issues such as why astrology is not a science was an integral part of our intellectual culture, if not our popular culture. The unfortunate decision of the Andhra High Court informs us that such assumptions are not entirely justified. It calls attention to the tenuous and slippery position science and the scientific temper hold in Indian society.

Dr. T. Jayaraman is a theoretical physicist at the Institute of Mathematical Sciences, Chennai.

 

[auh]

Athimber Ji,

I really appreciate the efforts taken by you to substantiate your point.

The cited judgement may prove beyond any reasonable doubt the decision conveyed by the Hon’ble court.

Keep it up.

Hope after going through such a judgment, the Hon’ble members will set their mind at rest….!!.

Of course, if they do think that they have valid points to counter, they are free to knock the doors of the Hon'ble Court.

But the million dollar question is WILL THEY DO????

IMHO, it is easy to get tempted to contribute in such threads in GD but not that much easy in getting a favourable judgement from the court of law.

Let them shoot........

Now that it is estableshed by the pronouciation of Supreme Court of India that it is science, I think that the thread opener is right in opening the thread in GD.

Spoken too soon in haste...

Where has the court said that prediction is a science?

 

[auh]

http://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/astrology_checklist

Astrology: Is it scientific?

		In some ways, astrology may seem scientific. It uses scientific knowledge about heavenly bodies, as well as scientific sounding tools, like star charts. Some people use astrology to generate expectations about future events and people's personalities, much as scientific ideas generate expectations. And some claim that astrology is supported by evidence — the experiences of people who feel that astrology has worked for them. But even with these trappings of science, is astrology really a scientific way to answer questions? Here we'll use the Science Checklist to evaluate one way in which astrology is commonly used. See if you think it qualifies as scientific! Focuses on the natural world? Astrology's basic premise is that heavenly bodies — the sun, moon, planets, and constellations — have influence over or are correlated with earthly events. Aims to explain the natural world? Astrology uses a set of rules about the relative positions and movements of heavenly bodies to generate predictions and explanations for events on Earth and human personality traits. For example, some forms of astrology predict that a person born just after the spring equinox is particularly likely to become an entrepreneur. Uses testable ideas? Some expectations generated by astrology are so general that any outcome could be interpreted as fitting the expectations; if treated this way, astrology is not testable. However, some have used astrology to generate very specific expectations that could be verified against outcomes in the natural world. For example, according to astrology, one's zodiac sign impacts one's ability to command respect and authority. Since these traits are important in politics, we might expect that if astrology really explained people's personalities, scientists would be more likely to have zodiac signs that astrologers describe as "favorable" towards science.[SUP]1[/SUP] If used to generate specific expectations like this one, astrological ideas are testable. Relies on evidence? In the few cases where astrology has been used to generate testable expectations and the results were examined in a careful study, the evidence did not support the validity of astrological ideas.[SUP]2[/SUP] This experience is common in science — scientists often test ideas that turn out to be wrong. However, one of the hallmarks of science is that ideas are modified when warranted by the evidence. Astrology has not changed its ideas in response to contradictory evidence. Many astrological predictions appear in newspapers — not in places where they will be scrutinized by the scientific community. Involves the scientific community? Sharing one's findings and critically evaluating the results of others are not integral parts of practicing astrology. An astrologer can go his or her entire career and not present findings at a scientific meeting or publish a single article. When astrologers do publish, these articles are not usually peer-reviewed or published in places where they will be critically scrutinized by the scientific community. Leads to ongoing research? Scientific studies involving astrology have stopped after attempting and failing to establish the validity of astrological ideas. So far, there are no documented cases of astrology contributing to a new scientific discovery. Researchers behave scientifically? Scientists don't wait for others to do the research to support or contradict the ideas they propose. Instead, they strive to test their ideas, try to come up with counterarguments and alternative hypotheses, and ultimately, give up ideas when warranted by the evidence. Astrologers, on the other hand, do not seem to rigorously examine the astrological ideas they accept. As reflected by the minimal level of research in the field, they rarely try to test their arguments in fair ways. In addition, the astrological community largely ignores evidence that contradicts its ideas. Now it's up to you. Is astrology science? To see our answer, click here. Astrology is not a very scientific way to answer questions. Although astrologers seek to explain the natural world, they don't usually attempt to critically evaluate whether those explanations are valid — and this is a key part of science. The community of scientists evaluates its ideas against evidence from the natural world and rejects or modifies those ideas when evidence doesn't support them. Astrologers do not take the same critical perspective on their own astrological ideas.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Where has the court said that prediction is a science?

One can say that this is what typical shooting from the hip.

Now, I can predict the next question will be where did the court say forecasting is a science…?

And the subsequent question will be where did the court sayforetelling is science..?

I think one should give credit to the whole judgment and its conclusion and not simply dissect the judgment in to pieces and call for justification for every word?

I have the following article to share…..

The Science of Vedic Astrology

A Gift from India

Link: http://www.vedicsciences.com/science-vedic-astrology.htm

 

[auh]

One can say that this is what typical shooting from the hip.

Now, I can predict the next question will be where did the court say forecasting is a science…?

And the subsequent question will be where did the court sayforetelling is science..?

I think one should give credit to the whole judgment and its conclusion and not simply dissect the judgment in to pieces and call for justification for every word?

I have the following article to share…..

The Science of Vedic Astrology

A Gift from India

Link: http://www.vedicsciences.com/science-vedic-astrology.htm

Sir, I can assure you that you do not know what you are talking here.

Kindly see the objections raised in the cited case, in my previous post, from the opinion piece. There are so many unanswered questions in the judgement that was delivered. Can you single out your responses to those? You have merely quoted some link and commented on my statement without heeding to all the red flags that stand out in the judgement.

Astrological predictions have to have an underlying faith in a belief system that has its origins in theology. One has to believe that the planets have an influence on our destiny. One has to believe that a person born under nakshatra "x" cannot be compatible with nakshatra "y". One has to believe that planet "a" is at loggerheads with planet "b" but friendly with planet "c", and that this relationship affects the individuals who are supposed to be under their influence. And one has to believe that a planet or a nakshatra behaves so because it is defined so in one religious text where some or all of the characters form part of the pantheon of gods of that particular religion. Where is the science in this?

What is the science when an astrologer says that a person would excel in engineering well due to the influence of so-and-so planet? A scientific approach has certain characteristics and one has to apply those criteria in determining whether astrolgy falls under the realm.

Also please note that I went through the entire contents of the case that is posted in this thread. It seems rather odd that the court has a favourable inclination to the subject of astrology in spite of so many scientists protesting against!!

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Auh Ji,

The burden of proof lies with the person making a claim and not with the person challenging for proof. So those who come up with the "science" of astrology have the onus on their heads to prove it within the logical realm.

The proof is the judgment

One is free to discuss about the judgment of the Supreme Court which is the highest authority of law in India.

Some may comment as to how can the Supreme Court pass such an order on the contrary, there may be another section to welcome the judgment on the ground that it has basis.

The point is, it is an order passed after hearing both the sides and after thoroughly perusing relevant prosecution and defense documents, cross examination, etc etc and finally after application of the mind by the learned Judges.

And we have the judgment now and we have to go by it. This is the order of the day.

Universities are conducting courses on this subject, students are learning and practicing may be professionally too.

As of now, orders of Supreme Court holds good until revised and that is an acceptable proof.

You call for a proof and when the proof is submitted you are trying pass comment's on it.

Sir, I can assure you that you do not know what you are talking here.

I disagree with this comment of yours. And only reiterate the comments of the other member that you are trying to exhibit a self-assumed logically superior position.

In fact, I too gone through the judgment and the comments both against and favorable.

Now, discussing about Vedic Astroogy is different.

Discussing .....Is Vedic Astroogy is a Science...? is different.

And discussing about the unanswered questions in the orders of the Judgement is different.

And I have never come across any case which was not challenged by the defense Attorney. It happens in every case.

 

[auh]

Shri vb, this discussion is off the topic by the minute and gets sillier as it progresses.

The court had a legal position to decide upon first - whether it was necessary to intervene in the UGC ruling. It was not a case of whether prima facie astrological predictions were science or not; it was an incidental (and strange) observation by the court that astrology is based on astronomy, which is a science. And so the UGC can open courses in astrology.

This court ruling cannot be construed as proof of the statement that "astrological predictions are part of science". If you are aware of the nuances of the literal of the law, perhaps you might understand. There is ample scope for a term to be interpreted in many ways and that is how lawyers make a killing. It is a position that the SC had taken in this particular case given the variables involved and not an established principle or a fact. If we were to take the same case in an international court, it may have a different judgement and then you would not be so happy

Then there is suggestive evidence and suppressed facts to support the fact that this might be a motivated decision (or influenced decision).

Then there is common sense and logic that raises questions that question the very basis of the origins of predictions. Without ascribing to a particular theology, it is not possible to predict, and hence astrology is but belief based.

I would also request, if you would, to answer my queries in #105.

Astrological predictions have to have an underlying faith in a belief system that has its origins in theology. One has to believe that the planets have an influence on our destiny. One has to believe that a person born under nakshatra "x" cannot be compatible with nakshatra "y". One has to believe that planet "a" is at loggerheads with planet "b" but friendly with planet "c", and that this relationship affects the individuals who are supposed to be under their influence. And one has to believe that a planet or a nakshatra behaves so because it is defined so in one religious text where some or all of the characters form part of the pantheon of gods of that particular religion. Where is the science in this?

What is the science when an astrologer says that a person would excel in engineering well due to the influence of so-and-so planet? A scientific approach has certain characteristics and one has to apply those criteria in determining whether astrolgy falls under the realm

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Shri vb, this discussion is off the topic by the minute and gets sillier as it progresses.

Auh Ji,

This discussion which is off the topic by the minute is in fact getting bit hilarious as it progresses.

The courts are really a supreme authority to decide matters weighing the pros and cons on hearing arguments presented by both the parties and pass appropriate orders duly applying the principles governing the law, besides upholding the belief of majority knowing well that the proof is not in the books but it is in the belief/faith of the public.

An this case was argued by Mr. K.N. Rao, a promient retired IRS Officer and reported to be as Astrology Researcher and founder of Department of Astrology in Bharathiya Vidhya Bhavan, Delhi.

And in the above case, during the course of argument, it appears that both the petitioner and the defendants reported to have presented different definitions for science.

And BTW what is your definition for science…??

This Hon’ble court after hearing arguments of both the sides, after weighing the pros and cons came to the conclusion and passed orders rightly by saying that since Astrology is partly based upon the study of movement of earth, planets and other celestial bodies, it is a study of science at least to some extent.

It is indeed one among the land mark judgements, which establishes time and again that our judiciary is at its finest in declaring verdits.

And impact of such decisions of the Supreme Court still echoes on the society.

When the supreme court was convinced that Astrology is a science, we are all as a law abiding citizen, need to accept, admit and adhere.

I can say that you are now conveniently trying to sway the subject as though this case may have a different judgment if presented in an international court, This is the hilarious part.

Who prevented the Scientists taking up this case to international court …??

Why they failed to do that….??

Can this silence of Scientists can be construed that they have nothing to prove that Astrology is not a science?

Hence in my opinion few sceptic minds not accepting the ruling of Supreme Court does not deserve a debate at all.

I go by the conclusion of the Hon'ble Supreme Court of India and accordingly end up my argument.

Bye Bye to this thread.

P.S: Ganesh Ji now you are free to post your texts on the topic with a proud feeling that you are discussing Astrology which is a science. No force under the sun can stop you. Believe on the planets viz sun, moon, earth and other planets and stars which we see in our every day life are the proof. Go ahead with your narration.

 

[prasad1]

Indian astrologers claim they can tell a person’s intelligence from his or her horoscope. But twenty-seven astrologers failed to perform better than chance when given forty horoscopes of intellectually bright subjects and mentally handicapped subjects.

---

In the world of astrology, India has many claims to fame. It has an astrology fundamentally different from both Chinese and Western astrology,[SUP]1[/SUP]possibly more part- and full-time astrologers than in the rest of the world put together, and the world’s longest-running English astrological monthly (The Astrological Magazine 1895–2007). Its main government funding agency, the University Grants Commission, provides support for BSc and MSc courses in astrology in Indian universities. And as for the general public, one finds almost universal belief in it.
Indian astronomer and astrology critic Balachandra Rao (2000, 149) notes: “The belief in astrology among our masses is so deep that for every trivial decision in their personal lives—like whether to apply for a job or not—they readily rush to the astrologers with their horoscopes.” Likewise, many will consult an astrologer to ensure their marriage date will be auspicious. In 1963, the astrologer’s advice, for example, led to a postponement of the wedding of the Crown Prince of Sikkim by a year. A day seen as generally auspicious can thus lead to a large number of weddings taking place, putting severe pressure on facilities like wedding halls, caterers, etc.

Western astrologers are generally taught that astrology is nonfatalistic and therefore not a good bet for predicting events. Indian astrologers hold the opposite view, and every astrologer worthy of the name must be able to make such forecasts. Unfortunately, these predictions do not carry any controls. For example, B.V. Raman (1912–1998), publisher-editor of The Astrological Magazine, wrote that “when Saturn was in Aries in 1939 England had to declare war against Germany” (note the fatalism) in a work intended “to present a case for astrology” (Raman 1992, 119). However, this reasoning fails to notice that Saturn was also in Aries in 1909 and 1968 when nothing much happened other than overseas state visits by Edward VII and Elizabeth II, respectively.
Indian astrologers often make ex­treme claims about Indian astronomy, as when The Astrological Magazine for March 1984 claimed Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto had been discovered around 500 BC (Rao 2000, 36). But their claims about Indian astrology tend to be even more extreme, as in the August 25, 2003, Indian Express wherein Raj Baldev, who claimed to be “an authority on the subject of Astronomy, Astrology, Cosmo-Mathe­matics and Meta­physics” said that ancient Hindu astrology “is a complete science” where even one million billionth of a second “makes a lot of difference.” Skeptics might wonder at this, since it implies that the shadows cast on ancient sundials were routinely positioned to better accuracy than a hundred millionth of the diameter of an atom. Even at night. Can we believe it?

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/an_indian_test_of_indian_astrology

 

[prasad1]

Indian astrology is more complex than Western astrology, with countless authoritative aphorisms to cover every possible situation. Indeed, the few Western authors who have described it for Western use have typically required decades of study before proceeding. But as one of them has noted: “This is of course natural for a society over 6,000 years old whose elders have not only employed astrology but embraced it” (Braha 1986, x).[SUP]2[/SUP]
And there is no Western equivalent to the ways in which those authoritative aphorisms can be modified via suitably chosen amulets, mantras, colors, gemstones (yellow or blue sapphire is said to strengthen Jupiter or Saturn, respectively), and by performing yajnas (a spiritual ceremony involving offerings to fire performed by a Hindu priest). Ironically these modifications specified by the astrologer are essentially fatalistic ways of achieving non-fatalistic outcomes.

Indian horoscopes are a different shape from Western horoscopes, and their signs, houses, and aspects are calculated differently. They also differ in howthey are interpreted. A Western-style interpretation focusing on the owner’s personality and motivations would be rejected in India, where clients expectfortune-telling.
http://www.csicop.org/si/show/an_indian_test_of_indian_astrology
So obviously it is not based on single source namely Vedas.

 

[prasad1]

The lobby for Indian astrology had its crowning glory when, in February 2001, the University Grants Commis­sion (UGC) decided to provide funds for BSc and MSc courses in astrology at Indian universities. Its circular stated: “There is urgent need to rejuvenate the science of Vedic Astrology in India . . . and to provide opportunities to get this important science exported to the world.” Actually, the phrase Vedic Astrology is an oxymoron since the prefix Vedic has nothing to do with the Vedas, the ancient and sacred literature of the Hindus, which do not mention astrology. In fact, scholars agree that the usual planetary astrology came to India with the Greeks who had visited India since Alexander’s campaign in the third century BC.

Within nine months of the UGC’s announcement, forty-five of India’s 200 universities had applied for the UGC grants of 1.5 million rupees (about $30,000) to establish departments of astrology. Of these, twenty were accepted (Siddhanta 2001, 2). To those Indians who believe that astrological considerations influence the course of their business and family lives—and this category involves leaders of major political parties—the UGC’s decision might seem sensible if overdue.

But the decision provoked outrage among India’s academics, especially those in the science faculties. More than 100 scientists and 300 social scientists wrote in protest to the government. Of the thirty letters-to-the-editor that appeared in the Indian science journal Current Science, most of them from scientists in university departments or research institutes, about half dismissed astrology as a pseudoscience, and a quarter felt that decisive tests were needed. Against this, the rest felt there was nothing wrong with funding something that most Indian people believe in. But the protests were without effect because, in Indian law, Vedic astrology is seen as a scientific discipline.

Nevertheless, in 2004, several scientists asked the Andhra Pradesh High Court to stop the UGC from funding courses in Vedic astrology because it was a pseudoscience, it would impose Hindu beliefs on the education system,[SUP]4[/SUP] and it would reduce the funds available for genuine scientific research. However, the court dismissed their case on the grounds that it was not correct for a court to interfere with a UGC decision that did not violate Indian law.

In 2011, an appeal under the act that bans false advertising was made to the Mumbai High Court. It was dismissed by the court arguing that the act “doesnot cover astrology and related sciences. Astrology is a trusted science and is being practiced for over 4000 years. . . .” (as reported in The Times of India February 3, 2011).

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/an_indian_test_of_indian_astrology

 

[prasad1]

To justify calling it a science, astrology must fulfill the basic requirement of a scientific theory—it must make test­able and correct predictions. Here the performance of astrology in predicting the results of events has been very poor. The nearest we have are follow-ups to predictions of public eventssuch as elections, where failure is the norm. For example, the elections in 1971 were a showdown between Indira Gandhi and her political opponents. The Astrological Magazine was filled with predictions by amateurs and professionals, most of whom predicted that Gandhi would lose. In fact, she won with an overwhelming majority.
The 1980 elections attracted another frenzy of predictions, most of which saw Gandhi losing. For example B.V. Raman (whom I discussed earlier), in a rare departure from his usual vagueness, predicted that Gandhi’s efforts to regain office “may misfire. Her ability to influence the Govern­ment will be disconcertingly limited in effectiveness” and the outcome “may not see a stable Govern­ment.” An Indian horary astrol­oger (one who answers questions) predicted that Gandhi “can never become the Prime Minister.” However, she won with a huge majority, was prime minister, and formed a very stable government.

Also in 1980, at a large international conference organized by the Indian Astrologers Federation, both the president and secretary of the Federation predicted a war with Pakistan in 1982, which India would win, and a world war between 1982 and 1984. All wrong! These examples and many more are given by Rao (2000, 113–122), who notes that no astrologer predicted Gandhi’s assassination in 1984, and that the golden rule seems to be “predict only those things which please the listener’s ego.

”http://www.csicop.org/si/show/an_indian_test_of_indian_astrology

I suppose it is not going to change any opinions. After today I am not going to participate in this thread.

 

[prasad1]

Lack of Criticism

In the West, books critical of astrology are not hard to find, but in India the reverse is true. Some excellent books exist, such as Premanand et al. (1993) and Rao (2000), but all are hampered by a lack of Indian tests with which to counter true believers. EvenCurrent Science had to wait until Manoj Komath’s (2009) review, which drew heavily on Western sources such as the critical but user-friendly www.astrology-and-science.com. Unfortunately, given the low level of income and high level of illiteracy of the masses, web sources may not be very effective in general.

UGC’s funding of astrology might have been justifiable had Indian astrology ever been a source of new knowledge (it hadn’t; see Siddhanta 2001, 13), or if its modus operandi had been verified by controlled tests. But unlike astrology in the West, where several hundred controlled tests have found no support commensurate with its claims (Dean 2007), astrology in India had hitherto been without controlled tests, even though its focus on predicting yes/no events would make testing easy. I will now describe a controlled test that my colleagues and I conducted recently.

 

[auh]

The courts are really a supreme authority to decide matters weighing the pros and cons on hearing arguments presented by both the parties and pass appropriate orders duly applying the principles governing the law, besides upholding the belief of majority knowing well that the proof is not in the books but it is in the belief/faith of the public.

Courts do not uphold any beliefs... rather they ensure that fundamental rights of citizens as defined in the constitution are upheld. Tomorrow, if the constitution changes to uphold any particular belief, then courts would suitable change their decisions. They operate within the framework of the constitution, and are the guardian of the constitution.

This Hon’ble court after hearing arguments of both the sides, after weighing the pros and cons came to the conclusion and passed orders rightly by saying that since Astrology is partly based upon the study of movement of earth, planets and other celestial bodies, it is a study of science at least to some extent.

You are twisting things here. Astronomy, which is the study of planets and celestial bodies and the movements is science. That part of astrology that claims to predict destiny and human behaviour is NOT. The court has not said that astrological predictions are scientific. If you are unable to comprehend this, I have nothing more to say to you.

It is indeed one among the land mark judgements, which establishes time and again that our judiciary is at its finest in declaring verdits.

It is a contentious judgement, imo.

When the supreme court was convinced that Astroogy is a science, we are all as a law abiding citizen, need to accept, admit and adhere.

Your are again misrepresenting facts - 1) The SC has not said that astrological prediction is a science 2) Neither was it convinced that astrology was science. 3) You are adjusting facts to suit your needs.

I can say that you are now conveniently trying to sway the subject as though this case may have a different judgment if presented in an international court, This is the hilarious part.

You can laugh alone.

Before you start asking questions, may I again redirect you to my earlier queries for which you have maintained a stony silence?

Astrological predictions have to have an underlying faith in a belief system that has its origins in theology. One has to believe that the planets have an influence on our destiny. One has to believe that a person born under nakshatra "x" cannot be compatible with nakshatra "y". One has to believe that planet "a" is at loggerheads with planet "b" but friendly with planet "c", and that this relationship affects the individuals who are supposed to be under their influence. And one has to believe that a planet or a nakshatra behaves so because it is defined so in one religious text where some or all of the characters form part of the pantheon of gods of that particular religion. Where is the science in this?

What is the science when an astrologer says that a person would excel in engineering well due to the influence of so-and-so planet? A scientific approach has certain characteristics and one has to apply those criteria in determining whether astrolgy falls under the realm

 

[a-TB]

Dear Mr Ganesh65:

Did not have any idea about astrology, charts etc. Thanks for providing an introduction (Being a skeptic it was hard to appreciate all the notes). It appears it is based on some science - meaning trying to approximate a planet's position.

Some questions
a. Rahu and Ketu planets - were they in use during veda times? How did they observe them? What about Pluto
b. Do you have reliable references to online south indian astrology services that are well respected ( for NRIs to use)?.

We came across a peculiar situation recently. An acquaintance is trying to find a suitable match for his son (in usa) , but his father in India is shooting down many of the potential matches (for the grandson) with attempting to do horoscope matching. In order to not alienate his father what he plans to do is to get respectable 'other opinions'. That is the reason for my question. Luckily we are not at the stage to deal with such issues

Thanks!

 

[GANESH65]

Dear TBs Sir,

Rahu and Ketu are actually the northern and southern nodes of Moon. For that matter Sun and Moon are also not Planets. So we are left with Mercury, Mars, Jupiter, Venus & Saturn. Of course Earth is left out being the point of event. But astrology believes these the planets along with Sun & Moon could impact the events on earth and hence is considered as Graha ( some thing which has the power to grab or hold). One of the text in Jyotisha gives description Rahu/Ketu like this.

RAHU and KETU (the nodes of the Moon)Rahu and Ketu are not physical planets; they don’t have a physical mass, but are very powerful energetic points in the sky. They are the points of intersection between the path of the Sun and the path of the Moon, causing the solar and lunar eclipses. They are very important on the spiritual level, as they are related with the unconscious shades, unresolved karmas and conflicts coming from previous lives. They are mythologicaly represented by a snake that was cut in two: the head (Rahu) and the tail (Ketu). This inner conflict manifests as two antagonistic, opposite forces in the sub-conscious mind that generate conflicts, dualities, fears, compulsive desires, rejections or phobias, and karmic situations which lead us to face them and work them out.
When we can understand and connect those two antagonistic forces, the “Kundalini”—the inner spiritual power and strength—awakens, leading to inner healing, peace of mind and spiritual illumination.
Therefore, Rahu and Ketu can be the cause of great conflicts, dissatisfactions and diseases, but by understanding and working them out spiritually, we can connect them and transform them into a great spiritual power.
RAHU – (the north node)
Rahu is related with the unconscious desires, dissatisfactions, fears, obsessions, ambitions and unresolved issues from previous lives that need to be experienced in this life. The houses and signs where Rahu is located indicate areas where there will be mental restlessness, hypersensitivity, strong desires to experience that area, but fears to do so and dissatisfaction with it at the same time.
It tends to create very strong but unconscious desires, without really understanding their causes, which can lead to compulsive behavior, addictions, fantasies, unrealistic imaginations or suggestions.
Rahu represents the unconventional, illegal, dark but desired; also foreigners, people out of the social system and its norms, or “outcasts.” It can also be transformed and sublimated into a spiritual energy, knowledge of the occult side of the mind, or knowledge of psychology. Understanding and control of this energy leads to esoteric knowledge and awakening of the Kundalini power.
KETU – (the south node)
Ketu is represented by a Sadhu, a mendicant ascetic monk, one who rejects the world and its vanity, instead looking for the essential truth alone. Ketu indicates areas where detachment has to be developed, areas that will be the source of some suffering—with the purpose of being spiritualized, searching for life’s very essence. Ketu is considered a very important planet for spiritual evolution, because it represents the capacity for renunciation, detachment from the ephemeral, and a search for the truth and the essence of life. It also represents Moksha, liberation from the cycle of births and deaths and attainment of illumination.
A predominant Ketu can be seen in the charts of monks, ascetics, renunciates, and psychic and clairvoyant people.
The placement of Ketu in the birth chart indicates areas that have been experienced in excess in previous lives, now causing feelings of dissatisfaction and rejection towards them.
Ketu can cause damage and restrictions in the areas it affects, but it is also a way of spiritual learning.
An adverse Ketu can cause ruptures, breaks, accidents or diseases, but alternatively it can bestow intuitive knowledge coming from past life experiences.
There references of Rahu Ketu in Puranas as well in Mahabharata the third canto of Bhishma parva says

अभीक्षम कम्पते. भूमिरर्क रहुस्त्था ग्रसत
श्वेतो ग्रहस्तथा चित्रां समतिक्रम्य तिष्तती
considering these, we have enough evidence to believe that the Rahu/Ketu were part of vedic era as well.

In another place in Bhishma Parva these quotes appear

कृत्तिकासू ग्रहस्तिर्वोन्क्शे प्राथमे ज्वलंन
वम्पूश्यपहरन भासा धूमकुतुर्रवि स्थित:
This suggests that at the time of Mahabharata War, a planet was present in Krittika Nakshtra, by reverse calculation, we have now established that the planet was Pluto. Various researches are going on to prove the existence and the effects of pluto in our astrological system which are at quite advanced stage.

We came across a peculiar situation recently. An acquaintance is trying to find a suitable match for his son (in usa) , but his father in India is shooting down many of the potential matches (for the grandson) with attempting to do horoscope matching. In order to not alienate his father what he plans to do is to get respectable 'other opinions'. That is the reason for my question. Luckily we are not at the stage to deal with such issues

As an astrologer, I would not advice this. Sorry.

 

[GANESH65]

The twelve Astrology Houses and their significance
All the matters regarding living and non living things are signified by the 12 houses, taken one or more than one house for any given matter. The astrologer has to judge a particular house or a few houses for any particular matter. For example, for marriage, the 7th house is the primary house to be analyzed but 2nd and 11th houses are also taken in consideration. This is because 2nd house denotes family and 11th house denotes gain, fulfillment of desires and happy social occasions.

Each house signifies certain matters regarding the individual but the same house can be extended to derive various matters regarding his or her relatives and even friends. This process of extending the affairs of any given house is known as derivative house. A house may be fortunate to the individual but at the same time it may be disastrous to a relative or friend. For example, the Lagna or the first house indicates the advantages gains and profit to younger brother as younger brother or sister is signified by the third house and first house is the eleventh house counted from the first house. The first house also indicates the fame and reputation of mother as it is the tenth house counted from the fourth house, higher studies, long journey, for the person's children especially the first child is judged from the Ascendant. Mundane Astrology is one of the branches astrology that generally deals with predictions related to countries, house meaning are more varied and somewhat different than birth or natal horoscope.
First Bhava or the First House
The first house or what is commonly known as the Ascendant or Lagna is the most important of the houses. In Vedic Astrology it is referred to as "Tanur or Tanu Bhava", which means literally, "the house of the body". It signifies the birth, beginning of life, personality, personal features, looks, body, character, temperament, individuality, self consciousness and constitution in general. The Ascendant is always an important factor in the matter of health as it also indicates the person's vitality and vigor, his natural disposition and tendencies and struggle for life, his success or failure in attempts, his fortune or misfortune, etc. It is the main factor in determining our orientation to life as a whole. Hence this is of supreme importance.

This house refers to the first sign of zodiac, the Aries or the Mesha or Mesh. The natural significator (Karak)of the first house is the planet Sun. The parts of the physical body governed by 1st house are the head and the upper part of the face and all the organs there in.
As per Mundane or State or Political Astrology, ascendant or first house signifies the people in the country and general state of the country. The common people, public health, overall condition and signifies the masses or a country or kingdom. It governs all the matters signified by the ministry of home affairs.
Second House
The 2nd house rules a person's finances, material resources, attitude towards and ability for earning money, family, speech and self worth. The second house is the house of money. It denotes the financial circumstances, fortune, profit or loss and financial prosperity of the person. This house shows what the person acquires by individual effort and the degree of prosperity which he will enjoy with all the possessions of extrinsic value bonds, stocks, cash and bank balance etc. It relates to earning capacity, one's ability to provide for self in life. It does not indicate career but indicate the financial success. In short, all that is acquired come under the purview of this house. This is not limited to what one own, in terms of tangible things but also one's feelings and emotions, as well as our inner selves, abilities, needs and wants in short our self worth. This house also deals with family. It includes all close relatives of the person without reference to any particular relationship. The immediate family likes grandfather, grandmother, mother, wife, children, brothers, sisters, etc. Another important influence of the second house is the one's ability to express his thoughts, the speech or the voice. It also represents the vision or the power of observation. It is also one of the maraka or death inflicting houses the other being the 7th house.

This house refers to the second sign of zodiac, the Taurus or the Vrishaba or Vrish. The natural significator of the second house is the planet Venus and Jupiter. The parts of the physical body governed by the 2nd house are the eyes (generally 2nd house rules the right eye and the 12th house rules the left eye), tongue, nose, teeth, cheeks, chin and all the neck and throat area.
As per Mundane or State or Political Astrology, the second house signifies national wealth, exchequer, revenue, banks, commercial affairs, trade and activities and matters which concern revenue. It governs all the matters signified by the finance, food and family welfare ministry.
Third House
The 3rd house rules a person's communication and correspondence, short journeys, younger brother or sister, cousins, and neighbors, courage, heroism valor, thoughts, mental strength, inclination and ability, memory and the inherent propensities of the mind and intellect. The third house is the house of all types of communication, correspondence and information exchange that a person is engaged in by talking, letters, fax, email, television, radio, news, media, phone etc. It also governs short travel, inland journeys such as travel by cycle, bus, boat, rail and short air travel. It governs younger siblings, all cousins and even neighbors. It indicates the property of mind, its strength and weakness, thought power, mental interest and inclination, courage and valor. The third house also governs change of residence.

This house refers to the third sign of zodiac, the Gemini or the Mithuna or Mithun. The natural significator of the third house is the planet Mercury. The parts of the body ruled by the third house are ears (generally 3rd house rules the right ear and the 11th house rules the left ear), hands, arms and fingers, shoulder blade, collar bone, respiratory and the nervous system.
As per Mundane or State or Political Astrology, the third house signifies neighboring countries and treaties with them. It rules over transportation and all the means of transit whether it is by land air or water, and the communication system like postal, telegraph, radio, telephone, television and all the media. It also represents libraries and public education generally. It governs all the matters signified by communications, information technology, broadcasting, transport, highways, railways and tourism ministry.
Fourth House
The 4th house rules a person's house and home, mother, one's roots, domestic affairs, acquiring of tangible assets and property like land, building, mines, farms and vehicles, happiness, learning, conditions at the end of life and the final resting place or the grave. The fourth house relates to one's home, residence, domestic environments and general condition of a person in the later part of his life. This house is also called the grave or womb thereby relating it to mother and all that it is concerned with hidden things such as private affairs and secrets. The fourth also shows one's landed or immovable property including those which one takes on lease or rent as well as those rented of leased out to other people. The fourth denotes whether one will have vehicles of one's own or enjoy others vehicles. All permanent possessions such as fields, farms, mines, real estate, gardens, buildings, dwellings, antiquities are influenced by this house. This house has a bearing on education and qualifications of a person. In this respect the fourth house may be taken to indicate school and college education.

This house refers to the fourth sign of zodiac, the Cancer or the Kark, or Karkat. The natural significator of the fourth house is the planet Moon. The parts of the body ruled by the fourth house are chest, breasts and lungs.
As per Mundane or State or Political Astrology, the fourth house signifies the weather, agriculture, mines, public buildings and the opposition party to the government. It governs all the matters signified by the natural resources, agriculture, petroleum, gas, mining, and housing ministry.
Fifth House
The 5th house rules a person's creativity and self creation, self-expression, children, poorva punya or virtuous act done in past lives, romance, love affairs, speculation, hobbies, favorite activities, games and sports. The fifth house is the house of creativity and includes everything one creates including progeny. It denotes whether one will have children or not. The fifth house signifies the conception of pregnancy. The fifth house presides over pleasure and social inclinations. It deals with tastes and fancies artistic talents. The type of recreation, entertainment, amusements, sports, romance and similar interest that appeal to a person is denoted by this house. It is connected with all material and physical pleasures like games, sports, cinema, opera, drama, music, dance and amusements of all sorts. The fifth house being a trine house, indicating poorva punya shows what meritorious deeds one could have done in the previous birth. It is also concerned with speculative affairs and all matters of enterprise prompted by the desire nature. All games of chance like cards, crossword puzzles, dice, horse, shares, lottery, gambling or betting come under the domain of the fifth house. The native's love affairs, the degree of success or failure achieved in love affairs, courtship and licentiousness, the legitimate and illegitimate attraction prior to wedlock or after marriage come under this house. It may be said to represent the seat of the physical and magnetic attractions between the opposite sexes.

This house refers to the fifth sign of zodiac, the Leo or the Simha. The natural significator of the fifth house is the planet Jupiter. The part of the body ruled by the fifth house is the heart and upper and middle part of back or spine.
As per Mundane or State or Political Astrology, the fifth house signifies matters relating to national affairs, envoys and ambassadors. All places of entertainment and speculation like theaters, music halls and places of amusement, education, stock exchange and race course. The child population and birth rate of the country is also denoted by this house. It governs all the matters signified by the youth affairs, entertainment, sports and education ministry.
Sixth House
The 6th house rules a person's health and sickness, diet, debt, labor, service, work, daily routine, co-workers, maternal uncles and aunts, sin, wicked act and fear. The sixth house indicates disease and sickness, the real state of the disease, recovery from it and whether it is of a long or short duration. This is also related to food, dietary habits and daily routine as most of ill-health is often due to improper management of these. The sixth house is also connected with work and the service rendered by the individual. It also denotes his employees, subordinates or servants —whether he is in the service of others or he has others as his employees. The condition and faithfulness of his inferiors is to be ascertained from this house. The sixth house is the house of debt or borrowing. This house also governs pet animals and small cattle, domestic creatures, tenants, dress and hygiene, sanitation, dietetics, food and clothing.

This house refers to the sixth sign of zodiac, the Virgo or the Kanya. The natural significator of the sixth house is the planet Mercury. The parts of the body ruled by the sixth house are the pancreas, stomach, intestinal tract, duodenum and the digestion process.
As per Mundane or State or Political Astrology, the sixth house rules the working class, sanitation and public health. It signifies the army, navy and air forces, which are the main line of defense of a country. It governs all the matters signified by the ministry of health, defense, labor, employment and human resource development.
Seventh House
The 7th house rules a person's relationships and partnerships, marriage, wife or husband, legal bondage, lawsuits, quarrels, divorce, open enemies. The 7th house rules any person with whom the one interacts that is 'the other' it can be colleague, client, layer, doctor or any one, the opponent. It also governs the niece and nephew. The seventh house is the "house of union or earthy ties", it mostly means the marriage. Besides the life partner, the partner in business and the degree of success achieved through such partnership is also shown by this house. The seventh house also refers to all those with whom the native enters into any contract or agreement, those with whom the native is engaged in quarrels and comes into conflict, the native's competitor in any undertaking, his rival in any contest. In a nut shell, the seventh house is said to indicate all those with whom the native transacts or deals in any manner. Fines, divorces, legal bondage, agreements, contracts etc. are other matters which are ruled by the seventh house. The 7th house shows break of journey. It is also one of the maraka or death inflicting houses the other being the 2nd house. For common signs Gemini, Virgo, Sagittarius and Pisces, the 7th house is also the bhadhak or life obstructing house.

This house refers to the seventh sign of zodiac, the Libra or the Tula. The natural significator of the seventh house is the planet Venus. The parts of the body ruled by the seventh house are kidneys, middle and lower back and vertebras.
As per Mundane or State or Political Astrology, the seventh house is considered in matters pertaining to foreign affairs, relations with other countries, wars and international disputes, foreign and international trade, enmity as well as treaties and alliances, public reaction, the laws relating to partnerships, marriage and divorce. It governs all the matters signified by the external and overseas affairs ministry.

Eighth House
The 8th house rules a person's longevity, defeat, insult, sorrow, scandal, obstacles, impediment, transformation, regeneration, sexuality, unearned money, occult matters and death. The eighth house is considered to have a direct bearing upon one's longevity or span of life as this house conveys the type of death, whether a natural death or an unnatural one such as by drowning, fire, accident or suicide or to chronic diseases and whether it is a slow or sudden and violent death. All that is related to inheritance, legacies, taxes, wills, insurance etc. The eighth house is related to his unearned wealth or share of profit or money that comes through inheritance. The eighth house is also know as the house of mystery and misery, it has to do with misfortune and mental anxiety, sorrow and strife, worries, delay, dejection, disappointment, defeat, loss, obstruction, blame and ill-repute etc.

This house refers to the eighth sign of zodiac, the Scorpio or the Vrischik or Vrischika Rasi. The natural significator of the eighth house is the planet Mars. The parts of the body ruled by the eighth house are the prostate gland, reproductive system and the colon.
As per Mundane or State or Political Astrology, signifies matters relating to public mortality, the death rate, major accidents and calamities like flood, fire, famine, disease, earthquake, the nation's exports and imports, tax department, debts due from foreign countries, surrender or loss of territory to another country, public loans, debts and interest rates, deficit budget, surgeons, medical officers, health inspectors, slaughter houses and butchers. It governs all the matters signified by the ministry of pensions and atomic energy.
Ninth House
The 9th house rules one's teacher or preceptor, higher education and higher knowledge, long journeys, luck, fortune, publicity, grand children, worship, penance, dharma, prayer, spiritual initiation and inclination. This is the house of faith, wisdom and worship. The 9th house rules religious and philosophical beliefs, weather a parson is religious, devoted, charitable, orthodox or meditative all is to be ascertained from this house. It is considered to be an auspicious house as it shows one's fortune in the present life as a result of past actions. The ninth is the house of intuition and pure reason it rules the higher education, higher knowledge and higher thought. The degree of knowledge one may develop whether collegiate, academic, philosophical, religious, literary, artistic or scientific - is to be deduced from this house. The ninth house presides over research, invention, discovery and exploration. The ninth house governs publishing and all forms of advertising, long journey, sea voyage, air travel, etc. It determines the amount of travel in far-off places or countries and the success achieved there. We can say this is the house related to broadening one's horizons.

This house refers to the ninth sign of zodiac, the Sagittarius or the Dhanu or Dhanush. The natural significator of the ninth house is the planet Jupiter. The parts of the body ruled by the ninth house are the thighs, hip and the buttocks.
As per Mundane or State or Political Astrology, the ninth house signifies law courts, judges, clergy, religious majority, legal departments, matters relating to religion, temples, churches, publishing, universities and those connected with them, emigration and immigration, import and export of the nation. It governs all the matters signified by law and justice ministry.

 

[GANESH65]

Tenth House
The 10th house rules a person's work, commerce, trade, business, success, fame, rank or position in outer world. The 10th house is related to all matters affecting one's name, fame, honor and recognition; it is described as the house of honor, dignity and public esteem. The chief influence of the 10th house is on one's profession, occupation or business. It is rightfully called the apex of the horoscope, since it denotes a person's worldly attainments achieved through name and fame, power and prestige, credit and conduct, success and status, rank and renown, respect and reputation, and ambition and authority. One's public life and popularity, his worldly standing in terms of material success and his connection with people in high position should be judged from an examination of the strength of the 10th house.

This house refers to the tenth sign of zodiac, the Capricorn or the Makar or Makara. The natural significator of the tenth house is the planet Saturn and Mars. The parts of the body ruled by the tenth house are the gallbladder and the knees.
As per Mundane or State or Political Astrology, the tenth house deals with government and its affairs and its chief executive. It signifies the head of the State, whether monarch or president or prime minister, also royalty, nobility, the party in office, the national leaders, the upper level of society and those in authority, eminent and distinguished persons and the aristocracy. It governs the nation's honor, integrity, credit, power and status among the community of nations. This house provides the clue to the political situation prevailing in a country. It governs all the matters signified by the industries, public enterprises and commerce ministry.
Eleventh House
The 11th house rules a person's friends, social circle, profit, gain, income of all kinds, acquisition, desire and wish fulfillment. The 11th house is related to friends. It stands for all those who are allied to the native by likeness or sympathy of interest in society, community, clubs etc. It includes well-wishers and close acquaintances. It also includes one's hopes, wishes and aspirations and their realization. The 11th house governs success in any undertakings, whether it is in profession or business, higher studies or election, litigation, speculation, health, etc. It indicates varieties of income; the 11th house is commonly referred to as 'Labha-sthana' denoting profit or gain. It is through this house that incoming wealth is to be expected. One has to investigate the 11th house to ascertain how far one will succeed in social and financial matters and whether at all he will succeed. This house reflects the native's attitude towards society and his interest for social activities as distinct from personal aims and ambitions. It also relates to reformative and unconventional activities. It governs elder brother or sister, paternal uncle. The 11th house is the bhadhak sthana or the house determent to longevity for persons born in movable signs or chara rasis viz. Aries, Cancer, Libra and Capricorn.

This house refers to the eleventh sign of zodiac, the Aquarius or the Kumbh or Kumbha. The natural significator of the eleventh house is the planet Sun. The parts of the body ruled by the eleventh house are calves and ankles.
As per Mundane or State or Political Astrology, the eleventh house signifies the parliament, House of Commons, legislation, associates or allies of the nation.
Twelfth House
The 12th house rules a person's bondage, confinement, imprisonment, expenses, loss, poverty, misery, phobia, staying abroad, final emancipation, left eye and let leg. The 12th house shows final emancipation from the chain of births and deaths and his merger with the divine and the future state of his existence. The 12th house deals with loss and impediments, restraint and limitation, waste and extravagance, expenses and loss. Whether such expenses will be pleasant and expected or unpleasant and unexpected will depend upon this twelfth house and transits and planetary periods in operation. It governs all types of purchases, investments, donations, charity and association with philanthropic institutions. Sorrow, sins, obstacles and impediments in one's way, misery and misfortune, poverty and persecution, intrigue and imprisonment, phobia, secret toil of mind, inferiority complex, anxiety, suspicion, silent suffering, self-undoing, secret working of the mind, secret enemies, plots and schemes, conspiracy, cunningness, envy, malice, fraud, treachery, and deception all come under the influence of the 12th house. This is also the house of the self-sacrifice and shows unselfish deeds.

This house refers to the twelfth sign of zodiac, the Pisces or the Meen or Meena. The natural significator of the twelfth house is the planet. The parts of the body ruled by the twelfth house are the feet.
As per Mundane or State or Political Astrology, the twelfth house signifies prisons, hospitals, asylums, reformatories, charitable institutions, criminals, spies, secret forces and secret enemies. It governs all the matters signified by the ministry of planning

 

[tbs]

hi

i like this importance of 12 houses ....i like to know more about sartru/mitra grahas of 12 houses....more details about 12 houses....

combination of grahas in 12 houses too...thanks in advance..

 

[GANESH65]

We are now familiar with some important factors which is necessary to read a chart. There are many more before we finally attempt and try to read a horoscope. Now we know what is a house (Bhava)means as far astrology is concerned and what are its significance. For prediction on various counts, we basically depends on state of various houses, its lords, planets placed in its, aspect of various plates on it, the Dasha of the person, transit position of various positions etc. Placement of various planets in different houses also causes formation of different Yogas or combination of yogas etc which we will discuss later here. Before moving ahead, we will first learn how the lordships (Bhavanathan) of various houses are found. Readers here are requested to keep in mind the difference between a Rasi and a Bhava. In a South Indian chart, Rasis are fixed starting from Mesham and ending with Meenam. So which ever rasi is marked as Lagna becomes the 1st house i.e Lagna Rasi next to it becomes the 2nd house and so on and moves on clockwise to reach the 12th house. That means if a birth takes place at a time of Kataka Rasi on the rise at eastern horizon, Kataka becomes the 1st house, Simha Rasi becomes 2nd house and so on and Mithuna Rasi becomes the 12th house for the particular chart. Where as in North Indian charts the chart starts with Lagna Ascendant, and becomes 1st house and moves anti clock wise to reach the 12th house. Here the Houses are fixed and Rasis are placed in respective houses as per their rise at the time of birth. That means is Karka Rashi is on the rise, it is placed at house no. 1, the Lagna and Simha Rashi is placed left to it and so on. Now we have all the house clearing having their leading Rashis. Our next target to find the House lords. The lord of the Rashi to which the house belongs automatically becomes the lord of the house as well. Here is the list the list of various Rais and its lords. Out of the 9 Grahas, Rahu & Ketu don't own any House or Rashis. There are some versions in contrary to this, which will discuss at appropriate occasion. Out or the remaining 7, Sun and Moon being the luminaries, becomes the natural owners of all the houses dividing equally among them. Sun has kept Simham for himself where Moon has retained Katakam with itself and distributed other houses to other planets. (It is a pure astrological concept). Now Sun Has gifted Rashi immediately next to the one he owns, i.e. Kanni to the planet very close to him, Mercury (Budha) Moon has also done so by giving away Rashi falls immediately before the Rashi owned by him i.e Mithunam. Thus Mercury becomes owner of Rashi's - Mithunam & Kanni. Like wise, Venus becomes Lord of Vrishabham and Tulam, Mars becomes Lord of Mesham and Vrishchikam, Jupiter - Meena and Dhanu and Saturn becomes Lord of Makara and Kumbha

So we have,

Sun owns Simham
Moon owns Katakam
Mars owns Mesham & Vrishchikam
Mercury owns Mithunam & Kanni
Jupiter owns Dhanu & Meenam
Venus owns Rishabham & Thulam
Saturn owns Makaram & Kumbham

Since we now know the lords of various Rashis, we also know the lords of the houses owned by these or represented by these Rashis. That means in the above example, if Kataka becomes the Lagnam, Moon automatically becomes the Lagna Lord or the Lord of 1st house and so on.

 

[tbs]

hi

திருமணத்திற்கு நாள் பார்க்கும்போது கவனத்தில்
கொள்ள‍ வேண்டிய விதிகள்...!!
Aska Svn
1. முதல் விதி
திருமணம் மல மாதத்தில் இடம்பெறக்கூடாது. (மலமாதம் என்பது இரண்டு அமாவாசை அல்லது இரண்டு பவுர்ணமி ஒரே மாதத்தில் வருவது.)
2. இரண்டாவது விதி
சித்திரை, வைகாசி, ஆனி, ஆவணி, தை, பங்குனி தவிர இதர மாதங்களில் திருமணம் செய்வதைத் தவிர்ப்பது நல்லது.
3. மூன்றாவது விதி
இயன்றவரை சுக்கில பட்ச காலத்திலேயே திருமணம் செய்வது நல்லது என்பது மூன்றாவது விதி.
4. நான்காவது விதி
புதன், வியாழன், வெள்ளிபோன்ற சுபஆதிபத்தியமுடைய கிழமைகள் மிக ஏற்றவை. இதர கிழமைகள் அவ்வளவு உகந்தவை அல்ல.
ரிஷபம், மிதுனம், கடகம், சிம்மம், கன்னி, துலாம், தனுசு, மீனம் ஆகிய சுப லக்கினங்களில் மட்டுமே திருமணம் நடத்த வேண்டும் என்பது தான்
5. ஐந்தாவது விதி
துவிதியை, திரிதியை, பஞ்சமி, ஸப்தமி, தசமி, திரயோதசி ஆகிய சுப திதிகள் தவிர இதர திதிகளை தவிர்ப்பது
6. ஆறாவது விதி
முகூர்த்த லக்கினத்துக்கு 7ம் இடம். முகூர்த்த நாளன்று சுத்தமாக இருக்க வேண்டும்.
7. ஏழாவது விதி
அக்கினி நட்சத்திரம், மிருத்யூ பஞ்சகம், கசரயோகங்கள் போன்ற காலகட்டத்தில் திருமணம் நடத்தக்கூடாது.
8. எட்டாவது விதி
திருமணத்தின் போது குரு, சுக்கிரன் போன்ற சுபகிரகங்கள் திருமண லக்கினத்துக்கும் மணமக்களின் ஜனன ராசிக்கும் எட்டாம் வீட்டில் இடம் பெற்றிருக்க கூடாது.
9. ஒன்பதாவது விதி
திருமணநாள் மணமக்களின் சந்திராஷ்டம தினமாக இல்லாமல் இருப்பது மிகமிக முக்கியமான விதி.
10. பத்தாம் விதி.
மணமக்களின் ஜனன நட்சத்திர நாளிலும் 3, 5, 7, 12, 14,
16, 21, 23, 2வதாக வரும் நட்சத்திர தினங்களிலும் திருமணம் நடத்தக்கூடாது.
11. பதினொன்றாம் விதி
கடைசியாக மணமக்களின் பிறந்த தேதி அல்லது கிழமைகளிலும் கல்யாணம் பண்ணக்கூடாது.
இவ்வளவு விஷயங்கள் தெரிந்து கொண்டபின் நீங்களே அனைத்து சுபகாரியங்களுக்கும் நல்ல நாள் பார்த்து விடுவீர்கள் தானே. அவரவர் குலதெய்வத்தை மனதில் வேண்டிக்கொண்டு உங்கள் வீட்டில் உள்ள பெரியவர்களின் ஆசியுடன் நல்லதொரு நாளைக்
குறியுங்கள்.


source....FB .....IN MY EMAIL.....

 

[GANESH65]

very good TBS. Post more.

 

[GANESH65]

Now we have 12 Rashis, and as many houses.We have 12 Rashi Lords and also as many House lords. In addition we have Karakas for all the houses as well. So we have to be extremely careful while dealing with all these and working on our analysis. The Rashi lordships, house lordships and Significators (Karakas) are different entities and hence has different uses of their own in analysis in a horoscope. The purpose for which is what decides where to look in a horoscope, suppose if we are looking about the marriage prospects, 7th house, its lord, the house in which 7th lord is placed, aspects on 7th lord and house, its conjunction with other planets, Position of Moon, Venus and Jupiter in the horoscope, Dasha running, Transit of planets and many more information to be looked in to. This is how we approach when we start analyzing a horoscope. So it is very important to get yourself acquainted with all these terminologies.