I C and I R weddings!

[Raji Ram]

Share:

Facebook X (Twitter) LinkedIn WhatsApp Email Share Link

Yes RR ji along with the other Ganesh, I also took part in his endeavour and familiar with quite a number of such persons. ....

Many members, including me, participated to collect the data!

 

[tbs]

Dear Biswa Sir,

Though I consider that I C and I R weddings are NOT necessary, I have attended a few I C weddings in my relatives and

friends circles. These happened with the consent of the parents of the couple. If parents oppose, I don't attend these.

Easy decision, right?

hi

it means ONLY ARRANGED MARRIAGE WILL HAPPEN....there are 3 kinds of marriages in the modern century....1 purely

arranged marriage by parents...rarely happen now a days....purely LOVE MARRIAGE...ஓடி போயி கல்யாணம்

பண்ணிக்கலாம்?......அல்லது......கல்யாணம் பண்ணி கிட்டு ஓடி போகலாமா.?....its also not much....becpz kids are

very bold against parents....even laws are supported..next ...LOVVU CUM ARRANGED MARRIAGE...these are new trends..

this is RR madam like...I have attended a few I C weddings in my relatives and

friends circles. These happened with the consent of the parents of the couple... i think..

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Bad...

The married couple is not respected in inner circles of both sides..

An Iyer girl who said that she would not compromise her religion & will bring the children the traditional Hindu way after marriage to a Protestant Keralite has now got her 2 boys baptized...She did not have any say in her children upbringing..She is lamenting but it is too late

Another girl who married a Vanniar a few years back is without issues and her father in law chides his son for for being childless & curses his DIL for being fat!!

A third case where an Iyer girl married a Gounder in Erode...After several years of marriage, the boy's parents forced his son to remarry a Gounder so that they can get progeny from their caste

IC/IR is an albatross around the neck of TB's..Sooner they realize better it is for us!!

All the 3 cases involve Girls who are graduates or post graduates!!

These instances prove my argument that B Girls are neither bold nor discipline in their outlook towards religion. They easily succumb to pressures.

 

[renuka]

Yes, Renuka ji,I know. and that's the reason I was little hesitant to post it till now. But on second thoughts, it somehow clicked to me that there is no harm in sharing it here as it may give some direction to the arguments being placed here. Hopefully I don't think it should do any harm so far as her identity is not revealed! Now it is up to her to come out in open or remain a silent spectator. More than anything else I want that the forum should know such a brave heart is there among us who could bear anything just to save her marriage. I also join you in wishing good to her and her family.

However, it should also be seen from the angle suggested by Vagmi Sir. Do Parents who brought you up with so much affection deserve such a harsh treatment? The success we are discussing here , does it worth at that cost? These are some of the drawbacks we are discussing and must understand on such relationships which could spoil the party on some part of the day.

Dear Ganesh Ji....over the years I have started to feel that even family, mama, machans are also transient.

Witnessing death and disease so often has made my senses feel that who is really mine?

As my parents age I get a slight fear too as life seems so unpredictable for everyone including me.

In this short Do Din Ki Duniya..why should I impose my dreams on anyone?

As parents we should not let our children live our dreams.

Are parents just the angry Gods that need to be appeased 24/7?

I know about Inter Religious marriages too cos its prevalent even in my own family.

Initially I felt all is lost..but as time went on I ask myself..What did I really bring that I have lost?

Nothing!

So that changed my views in life..as long anyone is happy so be it..I will only bless them.

I dont want to make my child live a life that I plan for him..let him lead the life that is meant to be according to the plan of the Almighty.

As a human before we die we need to know we are powerless ..just like Rumi said..Reason is powerless in the expression of love.

BTW Ganesh ji..comments have started to kick in..I hope the feelings of the member who sent you the email does not get hurt.

However a brave a person..anyone can get hurt..even bravehearts have a soft heart.

A personal email actually needs consent to be pasted here in my opinion even if its sans a name.

 

[renuka]

That is only one way of looking at it.

Now let us look at it again from another drishtikone:



Happiness is a slippery term.

Her parents are not happy obviously. His parents were not happy either.They are suffering the pain and the pain is going to remain there for ever. When we cause pain to others the happiness we get is not happiness as it is tinged with sorrow. Period.



She has just introduced confusion in her child's mind. And not values. A child does not understand higher philosophy. Does not know how to sublimate things. It perhaps silently suffers when compared to another child which is moving ahead even casting religion aside because it is sure that it belongs to a certain religion.



Religious faith is not about tastes which affect the taste buds and nor is it about fancies as to the color of a dress which looks good on a person. It is about belief and principles at a far higher plane. You can have true love and yet have strong differences. There is no need to paper over the differences this way.



Yes. There is no difference with this wish for this drishtikone. May God bless you and your family with real happiness, peace, health and prosperity.

If this sounds harsh, please excuse. That was not the intention. The intention is to speak truth and truth only even amidst swaying minds carried away by the need to appear to be good. But at what cost??

Pain and Pleasure is inevitable.
Its Karmic lessons for everyone to let go.

Its not easy to undergo pain or even insults but after a while we try to let go these feelings too.

So if I ever feel pain or pleasure or praise or insults..surely initially I will experience the intial customary emotional responses per my manas.

Then when Buddhi kicks in..I will just sing "Let it Go..Let it Go".

If I dont let go surely that would leave a Karmic debt to face again in another life.

As parents we should have mature minds to LET GO...nothing follows us to the grave..ashes have no secrets.

So if a Hindu or a Muslim parent still want to lament " Hey Ram" or " Ya Allah"..my children had IR marriage..
What does that mean?

Unfullfilled desires..just let go..freedom is letting go.
Total surrender is letting go.

 

[Vaagmi]

Pain and Pleasure is inevitable.
Its Karmic lessons for everyone to let go.

Its not easy to undergo pain or even insults but after a while we try to let go these feelings too.

So if I ever feel pain or pleasure or praise or insults..surely initially I will experience the intial customary emotional responses per my manas.

Then when Buddhi kicks in..I will just sing "Let it Go..Let it Go".

If I dont let go surely that would leave a Karmic debt to face again in another life.

As parents we should have mature minds to LET GO...nothing follows us to the grave..ashes have no secrets.

So if a Hindu or a Muslim parent still want to lament " Hey Ram" or " Ya Allah"..my children had IR marriage..
What does that mean?

Unfullfilled desires..just let go..freedom is letting go.
Total surrender is letting go.

It is not just that simple for all folks. It may be possible for a few who have the ability to sublimate everything.

Pain remains pain in the parents not just because of the IC/IR mariage. It is because the parents have seen a lot more of the world than the young one who has chosen the IC/IR partner. The parents therefore see much more than what the young one sees and that is the reason for the sorrow and pain. and, God forbid, if the expected horrors happen there is no way the parent can be consoled. And all this pain has been caused by whom? And what pleasure is it that comes with all this pain.

When budhdhi kicks in with its lullaby "let it go let it go", if the fears were just unfounded the let go will be pleasant. But if it were not that simple it becomes a nightmare for the parents and the lullaby will become jarring and may even become the requiem. They will never be able to excuse themselves in this life. That is the problem.

Calling Karmic load to soften the blow may work or may not work depending on the maturity of the minds involved.

Nothing follows us to the grave. True. But we have brought into this world those lovely beings who have gone astray and we too are responsible for whatever happens. There is no escape from this. If it is karmic load, it is certainly not from the distant past janmas. It is rather the short term reactions to actions playing out in our life time. No escape from responsibility.

 

[renuka]

Dear Vaagmi Ji...everyone of us have seen things.

Marriage is actually a contract commitment undertaken by 2 souls to work out their Karma.

Why and how it occurs in best known only to God.

Whatever will be will be..Que Sera Sera.

If we believe in Karma..then pain and suffering is part and parcel of it.

So if I as a person feels pain is becos I have the compatible Karma to undergo it.

Coming out unscathed is the only actual responsibility we have.

Nothing else we can plan.

Everyone is making IC IR marriages sound like Free Will and same caste marriage as Gods Will.

Arent all types of marriages our Karma?

So is the pain and pleasure of parents..Karma.

Everything happens for a reason..nothing is sans reason.

Even if a marriage fails..its a Karmic lesson..get up
.move on..marry again if needed..Karma has many chapters.

I feel Bhagavad Geeta should have had one extra verse that is Instead of the wise never lament for the dead..it should have been its not advisable to lament for an IC marriage.

Arjuna tried some stunts by talking about Varnasankar and polution of women..lost of kula dharma etc but right after that stanza Krishna only firmly says.. Kutas Tva Kasmalam Idam.

 

[tbs]

hi

recently i saw one ad in yahoo groups..i got in email....i was surprised too...i dont want give much reference,,,

Preferably Brahmins girl who likes non - veg. Interested....this ad given by brahmin mami for his son...

 

[Raji Ram]

One handsome vegan guy from our family was attracted by a pretty girl, when their horoscopes matched.

But, luckily we came to know that the girl loves to eat non.veg food, whenever she goes to a restaurant! :hungry:

The alliance was dropped because a vegan can never tolerate a non.veg eating spouse!

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

In my village, when some embarrassing events happen, people say, 'enna karumamO, ippadi Ayiruchchu!'

Probably, they meant 'karmA' by the word 'karumam', though it sound like a slur word!

 

[krish44]

Leave the issue of IC/IR.

Marriage itself is becoming unwanted.

Who wants lifelong monogamous boring relationships?

Most young would like to be free birds.

Stay single, getting into temporary relationships and move on.

When job locations are changing fast,many live out of suitcases ,work takes them often to different ends of the globe, it is insensible to think of permanence in any

relationship.

All this karma business is a cola for the senior citizen.

Food? Anything that tastes good is to be consumed. Vegetarianism is a fad. Then this organic business.

We require a new order without these limiting stories to appeal to new generation.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Krish Sir,

The society will go to dogs if ALL the youngsters listen to your advice!! :lol:

 

[krish44]

When religious orders are advocating extremism, Religion can hardly be the place to seek refuge.

Caste has become a bad word. Who would benefit by clinging on to it?

Extremists of yesterday are becoming liberals today for their own happiness.

One gets least hurt by staying off religion, caste, language issues.

One should not make inter gender relationships based on these at least within the country.

Even relationships have ceased to be permanent as most favoured of yesterday appear not so wanted the next day.

So live in this type of jungle, one has to be utterly selfish interacting minimally on absolute need basis and moving on.

Male of the human species produces plenty of sperms to distribute.Female capacity to produce eggs is limiting.

Someone says that thats the reason for parents to prefer boys to girls.

It is the choice of plenty as against rarer alternative.

Also if one tries to get a permanent match based on religion, caste, language, location each boy may not be able to get more than 3 to 4 four choices.

So why try for permanence at all?

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Krish Sir,

I am happy that youngsters do NOT participate in our dear forum!

Otherwise, many will get spoiled by your advice! :becky:

 

[krish44]

RRji

What I have posted, I have learnt from youngsters in another forum.

I try to understand their mindset.

I am not judgemental.

I try to learn from every class of people.

I learnt about vaishnavism before risking a trip to tirupathi.

I do homework before any trip to any foreign country also.

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

All this karma business is a cola for the senior citizen #186


All this is Kama and not karma business - Satyakama - is no cola - is respected in Vedas - Nikhanama is Abrahamic Islamic - Vedic religion has no problems with such relationship!

 

[krish44]

Most say openly kama is satyakama but think of vatsyayana .lol

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

Govt. should spread the message of Vatsyayan. like yoga and Surya namaskar - Nityananda may be roped in and dismantle the anti Romeo brigade. It will make some sense!

 

[S Narayanaswamy Iyer]

Many opinions have been vented, many statements made in this forum on this topic. One was:-

"Arjuna tried some stunts by talking about Varnasankar and polution of women..lost of kula dharma etc but right after that stanza Krishna only firmly says.. Kutas Tva Kasmalam Idam."

This startled me, as I thought I had read and understood the Bhagavath-Geetha myself, and this was NOT what really occurred. So I went through the Geetha again.

Sure enough, no "stunts" were pulled by Arjunan.

After pointing out, in all seriousness, how neglecting one's kula-dharmam leads to indiscipline and misbehaviour among women, besides other calamities, Arjunan goes on to highlight that through these perpetrated and accumulated wrongs, the rules of good conduct (dharmam) of famlies and of communities get destroyed beyond redemption.

This results in the trasgressors having to abide perpetually in Narakam (Hell). "We who have gathered here, motivated by greed for the joy to be derived from royal power, and are determined to slaughter our own kith and kin, are great sinners. Should these armed descendants of Kuru kill unarmed me, that would give me extreme satisfaction."

Having said these, says Sanjayan, Ajunan throws down his bow and arrows on to the floor of the war-chariot, and sinks into its floor in deep dejection and despair, overcome by tears.

It is to such lecture and grief that Krishna Paramaathma, full of pity and affection for his royal devotee, responds: "Why has such crassness affected you, Arjuna?" And proceeds to calm down and re-orientate Arjuna to his rightful duties as a warrior in the battlefield.

My conclusion was, and is, that neither did Arjuna pull "stunts" of any sort, nor did Sree Krishna "firmly" rebuke him, as alleged. Sneering contempt of our scriptures, if even only a tiny exract from our Ithihaasams, is not someting I appreciate, much less condone.

S Narayanaswamy Iyer

 

[renuka]

Many opinions have been vented, many statements made in this forum on this topic. One was:-

"Arjuna tried some stunts by talking about Varnasankar and polution of women..lost of kula dharma etc but right after that stanza Krishna only firmly says.. Kutas Tva Kasmalam Idam."

This startled me, as I thought I had read and understood the Bhagavath-Geetha myself, and this was NOT what really occurred. So I went through the Geetha again.

Sure enough, no "stunts" were pulled by Arjunan.

After pointing out, in all seriousness, how neglecting one's kula-dharmam leads to indiscipline and misbehaviour among women, besides other calamities, Arjunan goes on to highlight that through these perpetrated and accumulated wrongs, the rules of good conduct (dharmam) of famlies and of communities get destroyed beyond redemption.

This results in the trasgressors having to abide perpetually in Narakam (Hell). "We who have gathered here, motivated by greed for the joy to be derived from royal power, and are determined to slaughter our own kith and kin, are great sinners. Should these armed descendants of Kuru kill unarmed me, that would give me extreme satisfaction."

Having said these, says Sanjayan, Ajunan throws down his bow and arrows on to the floor of the war-chariot, and sinks into its floor in deep dejection and despair, overcome by tears.

It is to such lecture and grief that Krishna Paramaathma, full of pity and affection for his royal devotee, responds: "Why has such crassness affected you, Arjuna?" And proceeds to calm down and re-orientate Arjuna to his rightful duties as a warrior in the battlefield.

My conclusion was, and is, that neither did Arjuna pull "stunts" of any sort, nor did Sree Krishna "firmly" rebuke him, as alleged. Sneering contempt of our scriptures, if even only a tiny exract from our Ithihaasams, is not someting I appreciate, much less condone.

S Narayanaswamy Iyer

Dear Sir,

There is no actual sneering contempt of scriptures..from a psychological view point when a person is in a state of uncertainity he/she very seldom does introspection to actually identify the cause of the uncertainity.

Arjuna was indeed in such a situation..he could not find firm grounds to wage a war..he felt confused becos of his personal attachment to kith and kin.

Therefore his mind searched for excuses to run away from the war..so one of his methodology was indeed trying the stunt of bringing in loss of Kula Dharma etc.

Why?
Its just becos he did not want to fight.

Why does Krishna say Kutas Tva Kasmalam Idam?

Becos Arjuna was finding excuses not to fight instead of finding out the real reason he could not fight.

Yes..all I quoted here is Kutas Tva Kasmalam Idam by Krishna.

Its no rebuke..neither condone..what is it?

Do we really know?

Thats the best part of the Geeta..as Krishna said.
Among the thousands that strive to know Me..hardly one truly knows Me.

 

[biswa]

Obviously some people think they more than others, particularly about religious scriptures.

 

[biswa]

Good thoughts, but I think some folks here are not willing "to let go" of caste, as it confers some advantage / superiority.

So the karmic debt has to be settled in the next birth by being born in a lower caste so that the other side can be experienced.

Luckily I think caste will be obsolete by the time the next birth happens.

Pain and Pleasure is inevitable.
Its Karmic lessons for everyone to let go.

Its not easy to undergo pain or even insults but after a while we try to let go these feelings too.

So if I ever feel pain or pleasure or praise or insults..surely initially I will experience the intial customary emotional responses per my manas.

Then when Buddhi kicks in..I will just sing "Let it Go..Let it Go".

If I dont let go surely that would leave a Karmic debt to face again in another life.

As parents we should have mature minds to LET GO...nothing follows us to the grave..ashes have no secrets.

So if a Hindu or a Muslim parent still want to lament " Hey Ram" or " Ya Allah"..my children had IR marriage..
What does that mean?

Unfullfilled desires..just let go..freedom is letting go.
Total surrender is letting go.

 

[renuka]

So the karmic debt has to be settled in the next birth by being born in a lower caste so that the other side can be experienced.

I guess thats why the conclusion is:


TEXT 66
sarva-dharman parityajya
mam ekam saranam vraja
aham tvam sarva-papebhyo
moksayisyami ma sucah



Abandon all varieties of dharma and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.

 

[S Narayanaswamy Iyer]

Perhaps Sri Biswa is right when he says that some people think they more than others, particularly about religious scriptures. The same people obviously think they know "the real reason he (Arjuna) could not fight" when no one else does, even Arjuna (and perhaps Krishna)? Cowardice in the face of battle, perhaps? Burt too bashful to say so?

As for the insistence that Arjuna was trying stunts (monkey on a string?), could there be a subconscious desire to castigate and strike back at the prostrate and weeping Paandava warrior for having mentioned "kula-sthreeyaha dushysanthi"? Something like "if women are bad, you (and all men as epitomised by you) are worse"? I sincerely hope not. Even though this thread is about trans-varna, trans-cultural, trans-racial, trans-religious, trans-national unions.

Interesting to note that there is an attempt to inject "caste" into this dialogue re Krishna/Arjuna and to assert that some "karmic debt has to be settled in the next birth". Arjuna and Krishna were both born kshathriyas -- non-Brahmins. They were humans like you and me, and died as humans. They had "karmic debts"?

Is it the writer's wish that both of these men should be born OBC'a, SC's or ST's in their next avathaarams? That there should be no Kalki avathaaram? (Arjuna could already have been born as Sam Bahadur (General Sam Hormusji Framji Jamshedji Manekshaw) leader of victorious Indian forces in the 1971 Indo-Pakistan War which led to liberation of Bangladesh from the iron heel of Pakistani Punjabis.

S Narayanaswamy Iyer

 

[Raji Ram]

Good thoughts, but I think some folks here are not willing "to let go" of caste, as it confers some advantage / superiority. ........

In Tamil Nadu, even the divisions in brahmins and some sub-sect in each division, HAS some superiority complex.

But advantages? Nothing, with the reservation policies in educational institutions!

I saw a latest movie yesterday and the theme was about a college, which collects huge capitation fee and regular fees,
with absolutely NO facilities. Education has become really expensive! opcorn:

Many brahmins have to pay through their nose, to get a professional degree for their son / daughter! :nod: