I am a Tamil Brahmin and I recently did my DNA test. I want to share some interesting ancestry information.

[prasad1]

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This is not My story, I am just sharing it here.

I was surprised to find my paternal line migrated from eastern europe as recently as 6000-4000 years ago (and with most probability into India because as far as my family can remember - great great great grandfather / 16th century - they are all from villages in South India). And also that I share a haplogroup common with Ashkenazi jews.


And on my mother's side using mito-chondrial DNA testing the suggested route taken by their lineage is through Iran. That is out of Africa -> Middle east -> Iran (3000 years ago split) -> India

So by what I have learned, I am more than convinced of recent migration (5000-3000 years ago) of groups of people from Iran and Eastern Europe. And since I am a brahmin as far as my very orthodox family can remember on both mom and dad's side, I am starting to believe in some form of an 'Aryan' immigration theory if not invasion.

Btw, we also know our roots are in Varanasi as the surname carried by me, dad, his dad's dad etc is Kashi Sharma. This is the name also used in Sanskrit shlokas during ceremonies at home when say my name is called out it is said this fellow - "my traditional first name sharma" of "my gotra here" from kashi sharma kula - even though we speak only Tamil at home.

It has to be noted that in my Tamil Brahmin family we have two names for everyone. One is a Sanskrit name and surname which is used in ceremonies by the priests (or gurukul as we call in Tamil) and another Tamil name with dad's name as surname. Am not sure if this is followed by all Tambram families as well?

Now this DNA based migration data makes me believe probably my dad's ancestors travelled down into India (via Punjab?) and settled in Kashi, UP for sometime establishing their clan or kula, and then may be during Asoka's time of Buddhism and de-recognition of Hinduism in the north, moved down south?

Btw, a relative on dad's side is Sir CV Raman
Reddit.com/India

 

[komaragirihv]

This is not My story, I am just sharing it here.

I was surprised to find my paternal line migrated from eastern europe as recently as 6000-4000 years ago (and with most probability into India because as far as my family can remember - great great great grandfather / 16th century - they are all from villages in South India). And also that I share a haplogroup common with Ashkenazi jews.


And on my mother's side using mito-chondrial DNA testing the suggested route taken by their lineage is through Iran. That is out of Africa -> Middle east -> Iran (3000 years ago split) -> India

So by what I have learned, I am more than convinced of recent migration (5000-3000 years ago) of groups of people from Iran and Eastern Europe. And since I am a brahmin as far as my very orthodox family can remember on both mom and dad's side, I am starting to believe in some form of an 'Aryan' immigration theory if not invasion.

Btw, we also know our roots are in Varanasi as the surname carried by me, dad, his dad's dad etc is Kashi Sharma. This is the name also used in Sanskrit shlokas during ceremonies at home when say my name is called out it is said this fellow - "my traditional first name sharma" of "my gotra here" from kashi sharma kula - even though we speak only Tamil at home.

It has to be noted that in my Tamil Brahmin family we have two names for everyone. One is a Sanskrit name and surname which is used in ceremonies by the priests (or gurukul as we call in Tamil) and another Tamil name with dad's name as surname. Am not sure if this is followed by all Tambram families as well?

Now this DNA based migration data makes me believe probably my dad's ancestors travelled down into India (via Punjab?) and settled in Kashi, UP for sometime establishing their clan or kula, and then may be during Asoka's time of Buddhism and de-recognition of Hinduism in the north, moved down south?

Btw, a relative on dad's side is Sir CV Raman
Reddit.com/India

Can you please share which lab/agency this person who took the test approached? I would like to have one done as well.

 

[prasad1]

Can you please share which lab/agency this person who took the test approached? I would like to have one done as well.

You can GOOGLE it for the country-specific.

For India http://inbdna.com/know-your-origins-with-dna-test-for-ancestry.html

 

[prasad1]

In USA

Top 3 Ancestry DNA Tests, Reviews, & Essential Buying Tips (2024) | Genetics Digest

Expose surprising truths about your ancestry, health, & identity with comprehensive reviews of top DNA tests. 5 things you can learn + 3 MUST-KNOW buying tips!

geneticsdigest.com

 

[sureshs2005]

This is not My story, I am just sharing it here.

I was surprised to find my paternal line migrated from eastern europe as recently as 6000-4000 years ago (and with most probability into India because as far as my family can remember - great great great grandfather / 16th century - they are all from villages in South India). And also that I share a haplogroup common with Ashkenazi jews.


And on my mother's side using mito-chondrial DNA testing the suggested route taken by their lineage is through Iran. That is out of Africa -> Middle east -> Iran (3000 years ago split) -> India

So by what I have learned, I am more than convinced of recent migration (5000-3000 years ago) of groups of people from Iran and Eastern Europe. And since I am a brahmin as far as my very orthodox family can remember on both mom and dad's side, I am starting to believe in some form of an 'Aryan' immigration theory if not invasion.

Btw, we also know our roots are in Varanasi as the surname carried by me, dad, his dad's dad etc is Kashi Sharma. This is the name also used in Sanskrit shlokas during ceremonies at home when say my name is called out it is said this fellow - "my traditional first name sharma" of "my gotra here" from kashi sharma kula - even though we speak only Tamil at home.

It has to be noted that in my Tamil Brahmin family we have two names for everyone. One is a Sanskrit name and surname which is used in ceremonies by the priests (or gurukul as we call in Tamil) and another Tamil name with dad's name as surname. Am not sure if this is followed by all Tambram families as well?

Now this DNA based migration data makes me believe probably my dad's ancestors travelled down into India (via Punjab?) and settled in Kashi, UP for sometime establishing their clan or kula, and then may be during Asoka's time of Buddhism and de-recognition of Hinduism in the north, moved down south?

Btw, a relative on dad's side is Sir CV Raman
Reddit.com/India

Can you let us know how others can get this DNA test done. Is the test costly.
Kindly let us have more details of how to get the similar test done.
Your reply will be very useful to or most of us.

 

[saravananvenkat]

Migration happened from India to Persia, Africa, Mexico and South America. Not other way around.
Some group of Brahmins and people of all professions migrated along with Mahabali who went to rule Pathala lok. Pathala lok is not under the earth rather other side of earth. Mexico/South America would come right under India. Hence its Pathala lok. This theory was explained by Maha periyavar. You could check videos about that in Youtube.

MahaVishnu's avatar ruled Atala, Vitala, Sutala, Talatala, Mahatala, Rasatala & Patala Loka.
Atala = Europe
Vitala = Asia
Talatala = Antartica
Rasatala = Africa
Mahatala = North America
Patala = Central & South America
Scores of people of all professions were with him.
So its very likely our DNA would be shared with people from those area.

DNA testing organisations dont consider such detailed history as given in our puranas. So they go with recent history. If you believe that then all Indians would be an immigrant from somewhere which is bit skewed up!!

 

[prasad1]

Can you let us know how others can get this DNA test done. Is the test costly.
Kindly let us have more details of how to get the similar test done.
Your reply will be very useful to or most of us.

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[Mohan Parasuram]

Migration happened from India to Persia, Africa, Mexico and South America. Not other way around.
Some group of Brahmins and people of all professions migrated along with Mahabali who went to rule Pathala lok. Pathala lok is not under the earth rather other side of earth. Mexico/South America would come right under India. Hence its Pathala lok. This theory was explained by Maha periyavar. You could check videos about that in Youtube.

MahaVishnu's avatar ruled Atala, Vitala, Sutala, Talatala, Mahatala, Rasatala & Patala Loka.
Atala = Europe
Vitala = Asia
Talatala = Antartica
Rasatala = Africa
Mahatala = North America
Patala = Central & South America
Scores of people of all professions were with him.
So its very likely our DNA would be shared with people from those area.

DNA testing organisations dont consider such detailed history as given in our puranas. So they go with recent history. If you believe that then all Indians would be an immigrant from somewhere which is bit skewed up!!

Sanatana dharma was universal and the evidens are surfacing from other parts of globe. But its influence was being wiped out systematically over the centuries. If one sees even the Philippines had the hindu past and russia had also the vedic past.

 

[pvnatarajan]

This is not My story, I am just sharing it here.

I was surprised to find my paternal line migrated from eastern europe as recently as 6000-4000 years ago (and with most probability into India because as far as my family can remember - great great great grandfather / 16th century - they are all from villages in South India). And also that I share a haplogroup common with Ashkenazi jews.


And on my mother's side using mito-chondrial DNA testing the suggested route taken by their lineage is through Iran. That is out of Africa -> Middle east -> Iran (3000 years ago split) -> India

So by what I have learned, I am more than convinced of recent migration (5000-3000 years ago) of groups of people from Iran and Eastern Europe. And since I am a brahmin as far as my very orthodox family can remember on both mom and dad's side, I am starting to believe in some form of an 'Aryan' immigration theory if not invasion.

Btw, we also know our roots are in Varanasi as the surname carried by me, dad, his dad's dad etc is Kashi Sharma. This is the name also used in Sanskrit shlokas during ceremonies at home when say my name is called out it is said this fellow - "my traditional first name sharma" of "my gotra here" from kashi sharma kula - even though we speak only Tamil at home.

It has to be noted that in my Tamil Brahmin family we have two names for everyone. One is a Sanskrit name and surname which is used in ceremonies by the priests (or gurukul as we call in Tamil) and another Tamil name with dad's name as surname. Am not sure if this is followed by all Tambram families as well?

Now this DNA based migration data makes me believe probably my dad's ancestors travelled down into India (via Punjab?) and settled in Kashi, UP for sometime establishing their clan or kula, and then may be during Asoka's time of Buddhism and de-recognition of Hinduism in the north, moved down south?

Btw, a relative on dad's side is Sir CV Raman
Reddit.com/India

It's not your personal story? If so, it's whose? Authenticity??

 

[prasad1]

It's not your personal story? If so, it's whose? Authenticity??

If you read my post you would have seen

Reddit.com/India

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The Official Subreddit for India

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[Mani_Chennai]

Migration happened from India to Persia, Africa, Mexico and South America. Not other way around.
Some group of Brahmins and people of all professions migrated along with Mahabali who went to rule Pathala lok. Pathala lok is not under the earth rather other side of earth. Mexico/South America would come right under India. Hence its Pathala lok. This theory was explained by Maha periyavar. You could check videos about that in Youtube.

MahaVishnu's avatar ruled Atala, Vitala, Sutala, Talatala, Mahatala, Rasatala & Patala Loka.
Atala = Europe
Vitala = Asia
Talatala = Antartica
Rasatala = Africa
Mahatala = North America
Patala = Central & South America
Scores of people of all professions were with him.
So its very likely our DNA would be shared with people from those area.

DNA testing organisations dont consider such detailed history as given in our puranas. So they go with recent history. If you believe that then all Indians would be an immigrant from somewhere which is bit skewed up!!

 

[Mani_Chennai]

Brainwashing and dogmatic understanding are useless. Stephen Welsh at Stanford during his post doc research met a Spanish professor and he asked Stephen to go collect blood sample and find who we are. His book the Journey of Man provides the details. Before India separated from Continental split from Africa, India as of now did not exist. So, once the continental split took place, the only hot place was somewhere near Ethiopia and rest were ice covered area. Slowly people moved from there due to draft towards South Africa, and through the sea shored came to to day's Afghanistan Kabul, then to Indus valley, then to Australia and then to Russia and then finally settled in South America. Thus, we all have the same genetic material from those ancestors. So, let us not gloat that we were created uniquely. Also, while Tamil and northern Dravidian Languages like Kui(Baluchistan), Rajah Hills (Near Assam), cane from the southern Iranian branch and the Indo European_Indon family – Latin, Greek, Sanskrit etc., came from the northern Iranian branch. Only when the script arrived did we branch further. So, Puranas, Vedas did not exit when there was no India before the continental breakup. So, what we have to realize is that we evolved with distinct culture, language etc., and due to poor travel conditions, animals, diseases we become pockets and now those problem are solved. So, through the mother's mitochondrial studies we are all cousins but separated by about 7000 generations. Our fear of economic and political subjugation has created all the mess we are now facing.

 

[Shresta]

It’s like this we are all human beings
So we have to have a link somewhere
Too much of knowledge can sometimes break chains of love and brotherhood
Just read devathu kural u will understand yourself better
We already know our gothrams so it’s not like we are lost like many whites who want to know their ancestry
Also before the continents broke away it must have been easy to migrate over land
Use ur money for saving what we are left with
Our vedas
With much Regards to all of u

 

[suryganesh]

This is not My story, I am just sharing it here.

I was surprised to find my paternal line migrated from eastern europe as recently as 6000-4000 years ago (and with most probability into India because as far as my family can remember - great great great grandfather / 16th century - they are all from villages in South India). And also that I share a haplogroup common with Ashkenazi jews.


And on my mother's side using mito-chondrial DNA testing the suggested route taken by their lineage is through Iran. That is out of Africa -> Middle east -> Iran (3000 years ago split) -> India

So by what I have learned, I am more than convinced of recent migration (5000-3000 years ago) of groups of people from Iran and Eastern Europe. And since I am a brahmin as far as my very orthodox family can remember on both mom and dad's side, I am starting to believe in some form of an 'Aryan' immigration theory if not invasion.

Btw, we also know our roots are in Varanasi as the surname carried by me, dad, his dad's dad etc is Kashi Sharma. This is the name also used in Sanskrit shlokas during ceremonies at home when say my name is called out it is said this fellow - "my traditional first name sharma" of "my gotra here" from kashi sharma kula - even though we speak only Tamil at home.

It has to be noted that in my Tamil Brahmin family we have two names for everyone. One is a Sanskrit name and surname which is used in ceremonies by the priests (or gurukul as we call in Tamil) and another Tamil name with dad's name as surname. Am not sure if this is followed by all Tambram families as well?

Now this DNA based migration data makes me believe probably my dad's ancestors travelled down into India (via Punjab?) and settled in Kashi, UP for sometime establishing their clan or kula, and then may be during Asoka's time of Buddhism and de-recognition of Hinduism in the north, moved down south?

Btw, a relative on dad's side is Sir CV Raman
Reddit.com/India

Hi. Mr.Prasad. Nice to know about u. May I know how u r related to Sir CV Raman? My aunti (maternal uncle's wife is related to Sir.CV Raman. So just a curiosity to know more.

 

[renuka]

Hi. Mr.Prasad. Nice to know about u. May I know how u r related to Sir CV Raman? My aunti (maternal uncle's wife is related to Sir.CV Raman. So just a curiosity to know more.

Dear Sir, Mr Prasad had written "This is not My story, I am just sharing it here"

So its not him who is related to Sir CV Raman.

 

[prasad1]

Moorjani's past research revealed that all people in India trace their heritage to two genetic groups: An ancestral North Indian group originally from the Near East and the Caucasus region, and another South Indian group that was more closely related to people on the Andaman Islands.

Today, everyone in India has DNA from both groups. "It's just the proportion of ancestry that you have that varies across India," Moorjani told LiveScience.

To determine exactly when these ancient groups mixed, the team analyzed DNA from 371 people who were members of 73 groups throughout the subcontinent.

Aside from finding when the mixing started and stopped, the researchers also found the mixing was thorough, with even the most isolated tribes showing ancestry from both groups.

Researchers aren't sure which groups of ancient people lived in India prior to 4,200 years ago, but Moorjani suspects the two groups lived side-by-side for centuries without intermarrying.

Archaeological evidence indicates that the groups began intermarrying during a time of great upheaval. The Indus Valley civilization, which spanned much of modern-day North India and Pakistan, was waning, and huge migrations were occurring across North India. [History's Most Overlooked Mysteries]

Ancient texts also reveal clues about the period.

The Rigveda, a nearly 3,500-year-old collection of hymns written in Sanskrit, a North Indian language, mentions chieftains with South Indian names.

"So, there is some sort of mixture or intermarriage," Witzel told LiveScience.

Genetic Study Reveals Origin of India's Caste System

The caste system may have emerged in India by about 2,000 years ago, new research suggests.

www.livescience.com

 

[renuka]

Moorjani's past research revealed that all people in India trace their heritage to two genetic groups: An ancestral North Indian group originally from the Near East and the Caucasus region, and another South Indian group that was more closely related to people on the Andaman Islands.

Today, everyone in India has DNA from both groups. "It's just the proportion of ancestry that you have that varies across India," Moorjani told LiveScience.

To determine exactly when these ancient groups mixed, the team analyzed DNA from 371 people who were members of 73 groups throughout the subcontinent.

Aside from finding when the mixing started and stopped, the researchers also found the mixing was thorough, with even the most isolated tribes showing ancestry from both groups.

Researchers aren't sure which groups of ancient people lived in India prior to 4,200 years ago, but Moorjani suspects the two groups lived side-by-side for centuries without intermarrying.

Archaeological evidence indicates that the groups began intermarrying during a time of great upheaval. The Indus Valley civilization, which spanned much of modern-day North India and Pakistan, was waning, and huge migrations were occurring across North India. [History's Most Overlooked Mysteries]

Ancient texts also reveal clues about the period.

The Rigveda, a nearly 3,500-year-old collection of hymns written in Sanskrit, a North Indian language, mentions chieftains with South Indian names.

"So, there is some sort of mixture or intermarriage," Witzel told LiveScience.

Genetic Study Reveals Origin of India's Caste System

The caste system may have emerged in India by about 2,000 years ago, new research suggests.

www.livescience.com

This still doesnt answer a lot of questions.
What were the genetics of the people during Treta yuga ..the genetics of Lord Rama's humans form..was it Ancestral North Indian or Ancestral South Indian.

 

[prasad1]

In some Hindu texts, Rama is stated to have lived in the Treta Yuga that their authors estimate existed before about 5,000 BCE. A few other researchers place Rama to have more plausibly lived around 1250 BCE, based on regnal lists of Kuru and Vrishni leaders which if given more realistic reign lengths would place Bharat and Satwata, contemporaries of Rama, around that period. Archaeologist H. S. Sankalia, who specialised in Proto- and Ancient Indian history, find such figures to be "pure speculation" and dates various incidents of Ramayan to have taken place as early as 1,500 BCE.

The composition of Rama's epic story, the Ramayana, in its current form is usually dated between 7th and 4th century BCE. According to John Brockington, a professor of Sanskrit at Oxford known for his publications on the Ramayana, the original text was likely composed and transmitted orally in more ancient times, and modern scholars have suggested various centuries in the 1st millennium BCE. In Brockington's view, "based on the language, style and content of the work, a date of roughly the fifth century BCE is the most reasonable estimate".

Rama - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Rama being a Chatriya most probably was of a North Indian descent.
Valmiki Ramayana must have been composed between 2000 BCE and 200 BCE.

Early written evidence about the caste system appears in the Vedas, Sanskrit-language texts that date from as early as 1500 BCE. The Vedas form the basis of Hindu scripture. The "Rigveda," however, which dates from around 1700–1100 BCE, rarely mentions caste distinctions and is taken as evidence that social mobility was common in its time.


The "Bhagavad Gita," which dates from around 200 BCE–200 CE, emphasizes the importance of caste. In addition, the Laws of Manu or Manusmriti, from the same era, defines the rights and duties of the four different castes or varnas. Thus, it seems that the Hindu caste system began to solidify sometime between 1000 and 200 BCE.

What to Know About India's Caste System

The caste system in India has ordered society both for Hindus and even non-Hindus over thousands of years.

www.thoughtco.com

Researchers found that people from different genetic populations in India began mixing about 4,200 years ago, but the mingling stopped around 1,900 years ago, according to the analysis published today (Aug. 8) in the American Journal of Human Genetics.

Genetic Study Reveals Origin of India's Caste System

The caste system may have emerged in India by about 2,000 years ago, new research suggests.

www.livescience.com

 

[prasad1]

My genetic information conforms with what is the emerging model of Indian genetic history, which attests to a mixing between two disparate groups in the subcontinent thousands of years ago. Scientists have dubbed these two groups Ancestral North Indian (ANI) and Ancestral South Indian (ASI), though the terms do not actually reflect the modern distribution of these ancestral populations: everyone in South Asia is a mix of ANI and ASI, and there are no unmixed groups, regardless of language, region, religion, or caste. However, the proportion of ANI is greater in the northwestern part of the subcontinent, and lower in the south.

People with ANI ancestry are “related to West Eurasians (people of Central Asia, the Middle East, the Caucasus, and Europe),” although they mostly diverged from other West Eurasians some 12,500 years ago, and may have lived on the fringes of the Middle East, before immigrating into the subcontinent as the region’s first farmers around 10,000 to 8,000 years ago. There has been some further migration from this region: 17.5 percent of Indian male lineage belongs to haplogroup R1a, which diversified from Central Asia only 5,800 years ago.

On the other hand, the ancient ASI population group was indigenous to the subcontinent, or dwelt there for at least 30,000 years; ASI was as “distinct from ANI and East Asians as they are from each other,” and was probably descended from the original eastward migration from Africa 65,000 years ago that gave rise to the “negritos” or “australoids” of Southeast Asia and the Australian Aborigines (most of these groups were later replaced by farmers originating from the Near East and East Asia). Both these groups thoroughly mixed around 4,000-2,000 years ago, so that today in South Asia, there are no “pure” ancestral groups. In all South Asian ethnic, caste, and religious groups, “ANI ancestry ranges from 39–71%.”

Thus, it is true that the majority of Indians are primarily descended from people who have been been in South Asia for at least the last 10,000 years, but much of their ancestry comes from an ancient migration from the Middle East; in fact, Indians as a whole genetically cluster with Middle Easterners, with the ANI component mostly swamping the ASI component except among isolated tribal groups (adivasis) and the natives of the Andaman Islands. This was probably due to the fact that ANI groups grew exponentially due to farming, while ASI groups remained hunter-gatherers for a longer time.