How to arrest the slide in TB numbers

[vgane]

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Shri Ganeshji,

It is not only in dress, behaviour or appearance that we have become changed so much as to be incapable of displaying the old brahmin traits, but over the whole lot of acts concerning life. Smt. JJ had written yesterday about VeppilakkaTTi, Thayir Saadam, MaahaaNikkizhangu VaDAm, etc.; but today hardly any of our newgen girls/women will be able to prepare VeppilakkaTTi by pounding the ingredients in an "ural" (உரல்‍). The problem with Maahaanikkizhangu is also not very different. The result is that almost the entire market supply of these two items is from NB manufacturing units, just like kaimurukku, athirasam, boLi and many other items. Thayir Saadam in most vegetarian hotels which are well-known for this dish, have NBs from Tamil Nadu for preparing the item; not any TBs!

How do you propose to rectify this incapacity? By compulsory training to our young women or compelling our boys to learn such skills? (I recently came to know that a poor TB Vaadhyaar in Tirunelveli area is selling Vepppilakkatti of very good quality and certain other typical items also but the items are made in a shed in his compound, by employing NB women and men; no brahmin came forward to do such work, it seems. The Vaadhyaar markets his products to only his select clientele, without any brandname or packaging so that government troubles are avoided!

When the conditions are such (as exist today) what is the great Tamil Brahmin culture or sacredness or knowledge or whatever, that we will be protecting and preserving? First thing, the community should stop educating our girls beyond school (SSLC); is that possible? Think realistically and you will realize that not only TB culture but the whole brahmin culture of India is likely to get dissolved in the international melting pot of myriad cultures and beliefs and ways of life.

Sangomji,

As far as exclusivity in buying sweets & snacks is concerned TB's have shed any sort of discrimination...Gllobal TB's are buying in tons from Grand sweets which is not TB owned..We relish the taste but we are not particular that it be brought or made only from/by a TB...The technique is 100% TB..30 years back one Mami taught them how to make kara kara seedai and murukku and the Grand sweets replicated it & scaled it up...Adyar Anand Bhavan serves very tasty Adai aviyal in Vadapalani...These are made by a mami..10 years later may be it is made by a nadar woman..So long as it tastes authentic I will buy from there...

So why should TB's only make veppalai katti ..So long as it is authentic I will buy from anywhere

50 years back only TB's slogged to make the dishes...Now the rest are slogging to serve TB culture on a plate..I would go ahead & lap it up

Who said that the girls of yore were not educated.We are providing light to the family by providing education to the girl child...Let us not under estimate the power..By proper guidance our girls can be molded to be the beacon of hope for nurturing our culture and traditions!

 

[tks]

It will be useful to enumerate what constitutes core principles and values that are the underpinning of a TB group and its culture.

Change is the nature of 'nature' and all societies evolve based on means of communication, advances in means of production, technology, new threats, new conveniences etc.

When there is clarity as to what core values and principles make up the TB culture, it is possible to understand the value of its preservation through generations. Certain changes not core to the principles and values will become extinct. We don't need the old அம்மி, கல்லோரல், அரிக்கேன் லைட்டு. My suggestion therefore is counter-intuitive.

To preserve the TB culture, one must not 'recognize' those that do not follow the core principles and values (which must be a minimal set) as having a legitimate TB-tag. This is opposite to what is usually proposed which is to expand and then anything goes.

The Amish community that settled in USA back in 1700s are still preserving their version of Christianity and their lifestyle in USA (no electricity, no automation, no touch of technology, community builds homes for each other, etc). Children grow up in their communion, but once a kid is 18 there is a choice to either leave all of the community or come back. They have to make a deliberate choice. The surprising statistics is that 93% or so return. Their community has grown over many decades and there are over 20000 or more of Amish in one county of Pennsylvania alone.

There was a movies called Witness that is based on their chosen lifestyle.

So people who are ready eat flesh, those that are clueless about any of the customs founded on good principle should be called 'used to be brahmanas' - Again this is not a reference to Varna at all but only the caste!

 

[biswa]

The best way to preserve a culture is by following the culture.

This is the best sentence I have read in a while. Hear, hear TKSji.

It is a fallacy to think intermarriage is synonymous to loss or change in culture. Hindu culture and traditions have not been preserved by only one caste or community. Temples and arts have not been supported and kept alive by one group of people only.

Culture will die not because one type of person is marrying another type of person. But culture will die if it is not practiced. Just as a language will die if it is not spoken.

As many learned members have spoken culture is changing (not necessarily dying) because of influence of migration, geography, TV, film, books, social media. Decline of endogamy is just one of the many factors here.

If one is interested in preservation of culture (rather than just a caste label), one has to make an effort promote it. That happens in the Chinmaya missions in the US where Hindu culture is very much thriving, even though casteist feelings are gradually being obliterated.

 

[tbs]

Aside: we recently bought some veppilakatti from palakkad through my relative... yum yum.

hi

veppillai katti/maahani kizhangu/maa vadus are famous produsts of THANGAM PICKLES FROM PALAKKAD....i buy every year very

regularly in chennai....now a days a scarcity for MAAHANI KIZHANGU PICKLES....its season business too...i buy every year

to USA.....when i visit chennai...these three are in my purchasing list ...especially FROM THANGAM PRODUCTS,PALAKKAD...

i heard that there are some agencies in bangalore/mumbai also....where palakkad brahmin communities dominated...

 

[zebra16]

It is a fallacy to think intermarriage is synonymous to loss or change in culture.

Surely inter-religious marriage involve change of culture? If inter-religious marriage do not involve change of culture, then what is different from Hindu culture and say Christian culture? Why have different nomenclatures?

So loss of Hindu population to a non-Hindu culture is a loss to Hindu culture. It is not at all a fallacy.

Now coming to the aspect of inter-caste marriage. If Brahmin culture is toto with Hindu culture, what is separate about it? Then why are Brahmins segregated or Brahmins segregate themselves from others (in whichever way you view it)?

It is a fallacy to view Hindu culture as a monolith and that it compasses ALL the religious tenets, rituals and cultural aspects of all the sects, sub sects and segments of Hinduism. Hindu culture as viewed from a bird eye embraces or covers only the very broad frame. A very simple example would be a Satyanarayana Pooja. Some Hindus perform it and some do not observe it. Both the groups are Hindus.

Is Satyanarayana Pooja a ritual or a cultural activity? If it is merely a ritual or observance, is it to be included in Hindu culture or not?

Hindu culture and traditions have not been preserved by only one caste or community. Temples and arts have not been supported and kept alive by one group of people only.

Common Hindu culture and traditions have been preserved by the Hindu community. But within the broad frame work, individual sects or sub sects have to preserve their own culture. Who is maintaining the ritual of sandhya-vandanam, except Brahmins? If you feel that it is not the core value of a brahmin sect, then say so.

First let us arrive at the so called "core values" of Hinduism.

Is mere maintenance of temple a culture or going to the temple a cultural activity? What is the use of maintaining a temple if there are no temple goers?

Culture will die not because one type of person is marrying another type of person.

This is an enigmatic statement. If inter-caste marriages do not result in giving up certain culture, then what is the big fuss about?

On the one hand members write and whine that TB girls look for marriage alliances to other castes because the girls feel over-burdened by TB culture and on the other hand you say there is no death of culture. What is the tyranny that they want to escape from that they choose other caste members for marriage if Hindu culture is so uniform?

As many learned members have spoken culture is changing (not necessarily dying) because of influence of migration, geography, TV, film, books, social media. Decline of endogamy is just one of the many factors here.

I did get the impression that the culture is dying (and not merely changing). The practice or culture of wearing pancha-kaccham veshti is DEAD. The practice of Kudumi is DEAD. Wearing of Madisar saree is DEAD. Doing sandhya-vandanam or tarpanam is DYING naturally. Today hardly any of our newgen girls/women will be able to prepare VeppilakkaTTi by pounding the ingredients in an "ural" (உரல்‍) (as posted by another member) etc etc

If one is interested in preservation of culture (rather than just a caste label), one has to make an effort promote it. That happens in the Chinmaya missions in the US where Hindu culture is very much thriving, even though casteist feelings are gradually being obliterated.

If indeed culture is only changing and not dead or dying but instead thriving, what is the need for Chinmaya missions to promote it? What is the need to promote a thriving thing or concept? Are they doing conversions from other religions? They are striving to promote it because they fear it will be DEAD if left to decay.

The intention of the OP is quite similar though he may not be a big wig like Swami Chinmayananda's followers.

 

[renuka]

It is a fallacy to think intermarriage is synonymous to loss or change in culture.

AGREED!

Intercaste marriage or inter community marriage or inter state marriage does NOT really change culture provided both are Hindus.

As a intercaste/interstate person myself I do not see in any way where I lack understanding about religion and culture.
In fact it gives one a broader perspective in life and one chooses to not really identify too strongly to outward identity and focuses on just being Hindu.

I feel this thinking has helped shape my understanding in Hinduism better.Personally I feel an intercaste person is more focus on philosophy of religion that being ritualistic.

I can safely say I have been exposed to much more aspects of culture,mutiple languages,religion,philosophy, etc much more than most pure breeds I know.

 

[Raji Ram]

Since vEppalAkkatti has entered this thread; one info.

My sibling makes yummy vEppalAkkatti using her mixer grinder!

 

[Raji Ram]

To follow madi, AchAram of brahmins is not easy and hence they are not followed by most of the people everyday. But on

special days they DO observe them, if taught by elders in the family. Till I got married, madi and AchAram were for special

days only! Now, whenever I visit the ancestral home of in-laws, I have to follow them everyday! That is the fact.

Since many families have migrated to overseas countries, it is not easy for the children to learn the culture, if their parents

do not follow them. Eating non.veg and drinking are not considered sin by many brahmins even in India. I think brahmins

should avoid these. Now a days, many TB girls get used to 'spirited' life and are not happy to marry teetotallar ambis!! :sad:

 

[biswa]

Since it is a very long post, let me just focus on the crux of the issue.

I did get the impression that the culture is dying (and not merely changing). The practice or culture of wearing pancha-kaccham veshti is DEAD. The practice of Kudumi is DEAD. Wearing of Madisar saree is DEAD. Doing sandhya-vandanam or tarpanam is DYING naturally. Today hardly any of our newgen girls/women will be able to prepare VeppilakkaTTi by pounding the ingredients in an "ural" (உரல்‍) (as posted by another member) etc etc

Why is a certain form of dress or a particular form of getup such an integral part of culture? Why don't we focus to a more prevalent and positive form of culture such as getting good ranks in IIT exam, getting a software job or even getting a US green card. Are these not more of an achievement than how someone ties their saree? What is the need to stick to 100 year old fashion? Who will benefit?

99.99% of young people have already voted with their feet.

 

[biswa]

I can safely say I have been exposed to much more aspects of culture,mutiple languages,religion,philosophy, etc much more than most pure breeds I know.

Ah but even though you are often admired in this forum, you have not been officially approved, blessed and admitted into pure-breed fold. Unfortunately in Harry Potter terms, you will always be considered a "mud-blood" by the "pure bloods" even though you may be as the smartest wizard of all like Hermione Granger.

 

[renuka]

Ah but even though you are often admired in this forum, you have not been officially approved, blessed and admitted into pure-breed fold. Unfortunately in Harry Potter terms, you will always be considered a "mud-blood" by the "pure bloods" even though you may be as the smartest wizard of all like Hermione Granger.

Dear Biswa,

A human being should be contented with what he/she is.

We are born in a certain body..certain DNA for a reason.

Its per our Karma we acquire a human body that is best suited to carry out our duties in life.

I am not a pure breed and there is no need for me to be what I am not. Feeling welcomed/blessed/admitted is not about changing our identity..feeling welcomed is about bonding,respecting and accepting the differences with each other.

There is something unique being ourselves..that is the idea of respecting our Creator cos He put us in a body to realize our purpose in existence.

Pure breed or mixed breed..to me everyone is here for a reason.

 

[krish44]

It will be useful to enumerate what constitutes core principles and values that are the underpinning of a TB group and its culture.

Change is the nature of 'nature' and all societies evolve based on means of communication, advances in means of production, technology, new threats, new conveniences etc.

When there is clarity as to what core values and principles make up the TB culture, it is possible to understand the value of its preservation through generations. Certain changes not core to the principles and values will become extinct. We don't need the old அம்மி, கல்லோரல், அரிக்கேன் லைட்டு. My suggestion therefore is counter-intuitive.

To preserve the TB culture, one must not 'recognize' those that do not follow the core principles and values (which must be a minimal set) as having a legitimate TB-tag. This is opposite to what is usually proposed which is to expand and then anything goes.

The Amish community that settled in USA back in 1700s are still preserving their version of Christianity and their lifestyle in USA (no electricity, no automation, no touch of technology, community builds homes for each other, etc). Children grow up in their communion, but once a kid is 18 there is a choice to either leave all of the community or come back. They have to make a deliberate choice. The surprising statistics is that 93% or so return. Their community has grown over many decades and there are over 20000 or more of Amish in one county of Pennsylvania alone.

There was a movies called Witness that is based on their chosen lifestyle.

So people who are ready eat flesh, those that are clueless about any of the customs founded on good principle should be called 'used to be brahmanas' - Again this is not a reference to Varna at all but only the caste!

Who can arrogate to himself the right to decide what are core principles and values that brahmins need to conform to earn a legitimate brahmins tag?

Years back there was the concept of jathi brashta for those who did not conform to certain brahmin practices. People who married outside their community were not

allowed to reenter their homes in agraharam.Those who went abroad for studies were made to undergo purification ceremonies on return. Is this what is advocated?

These types will take back brahmins to medieval times.

 

[krish44]

Dear krish44,

1) The whys and whats are many. And many a time we do not strive to get answers. We just raise these questions and leave them hanging in the air. And sometimes we think we have got the answers with the first source (the post #65 and papayoni referred to in BG as quoted by sangomji and countered by by tks is just an example). How can something that is good be rejected as useless for life?

2)Please list those cultural aspets that are adharmic--at least a few of them. We can discuss them.

3)Honesty is there everywhere. So we may leave it. We can not say the same about respect for other humans or gender equality. When the dalits of Kilvenmony village were burnt alive (mostly children and women along with males) where was this respect for other human beings hiding? Not a single respectable political leader raised any voice about this. The culprits, after years of trial in the court, came out free. There was not a single brahmin involved in that mindless violence even though there were brahmin landlords too living in that area and they were also victims of the nascent left activism. Similarly when the tribal women of Vachati were raped (again including the children there) by a gang of Govt. Officials/police personnel (not a single brahmin in that gang) there was no big revolution in the state, there were no elites who were guillotined a la French Revolution. Many of the accused retired from service in course of time even as the trial was going on and died without punishment. I can quote many such instances. And gender equality. Yes there are far more number of females in the NB communities who are feeling suffocated and without a voice than in the brahmin community. So an IC marriage may actually be landing our girls in a horrible island jail. The point is there is nothing to choose in a IC or IR marriage that is not there in a BB marriage. So this advice is hollow.

4) Vegetarianism is not a fad. It comes from generations of concious avoidance of meat. And there are strong reasons for that. To call it just a fad is ignorance. Similarly caste signs. I wear whatever I want as long as I understand what I am doing. It should not bother other human beings as long as I do not insist that others should also wear it. It is not a "caste mark" in the first place. You have borrowed that word from the Imperialists who wanted to rule us. You remain still a slave to use their words. Same is the case with performing rituals. It is not for someone who does not want to perform them to come and teach others who are performing them. Lot of energy can be saved by keeping your opinion on this to yourself than coming out with abusive terms. Do you wash your hands before you take your food? A cockroach may laugh at you for doing that. LOL. Who is right? The cockroach or you?

5) I understand your earnest wishes. They may not however come true because there is something called Universal good and it knows what is ok and what is not.

I am from the southern district of Tirunelveli. I do not beat around the bushes. I give it straight. Sometimes it may sound brutal. Please excuse me. I respect your rights. I am only not able to agree with you.

Some response if not full
2.Every person does acts some of which are dharmic and others adharmic. To say one community practices dharma to the core and others are adharmic by birth

exhibits a certain mindset. It is unnecessay to talk specific . .

3To say intermediate castes indulged in caste violence and brahmins practised only satvik discrimination is no argument. Namboodris used nairs to ill treat others and

enjoy an exalted status in society.TBs earlier banished other castes from their kitchen and now use them to wash utencils and rewash them before using to satisfy

their brahmin conscience.How many ads one sees asking for brahmin cooks for home.They equate brahmin with hygiene and purity. Even if temple worship is open to

all , brahmins get treated differently from others by archakars.and given preferance.Are these acceptable? Women in brahmins have always enjoyed an inferior status.

Brindavan is full of brahmin widows deserted by brahmins.Only education and increase of economic status by women in employment saved the women . the laws

giving gender justice are turning around the lives of women. I believe in live and let live. If one feels happy practising some rituals, it is their concern. They can feel

they are elevated souls. But when they feel they are superior to others, they are living in a dream world of their own.

$. A better world is emerging. Others are usurping what is good in brahmin society and culture. for example Other castes make brahmin savouries, brahmin norukku theeni is made

and marketed by others.Others are catching up with brahmins. A matter of time , brahmins may lose their identity.

 

[sravna]

I think it is good that TBs are talking about having to change to preserve culture. It would be better if they do not talk in terms their culture but talk in terms of something that is universal and timeless. That is how they can preserve it and even propagate it.

Coming to my initiative in spirituality, I have the support of a few more people now. The initial plan is to create a strong message about spirituality by solving people's problems by spiritual power alone. Once people are willing to look at spirituality seriously other initiatives like talking about the logic in spirituality and the utility of spirituality even in day to day life is planned to be undertaken.

In this regard I plan to mobilise people from all walks of life who are able to influence people in their locality and their personal contacts, starting with Chennai. These people have the befit of firstly deriving satisfaction in the type of service they do, besides
being monetarily compensated for the service they do.

People are welcome to contact me in this regard.

 

[krish44]

To follow madi, AchAram of brahmins is not easy and hence they are not followed by most of the people everyday. But on

special days they DO observe them, if taught by elders in the family. Till I got married, madi and AchAram were for special

days only! Now, whenever I visit the ancestral home of in-laws, I have to follow them everyday! That is the fact.

Since many families have migrated to overseas countries, it is not easy for the children to learn the culture, if their parents

do not follow them. Eating non.veg and drinking are not considered sin by many brahmins even in India. I think brahmins

should avoid these. Now a days, many TB girls get used to 'spirited' life and are not happy to marry teetotallar ambis!! :sad:

RRji
You have made the compromises to fit into a family observing some religeous practices such as Madi and acharam . Some you follow inyour home and others only

when you visit inlaws.Most women follow the same approach even in modern days. They drink when it is made possible and consume non veg they desire outside when

they eat ou. they wear signs of marriage when the inlaws are around .They do not say 'Da' to their husband affectionately and switch over painfully to neenga.What

price they pay to preserve their marriage.

 

[krish44]

Dear Biswa,

A human being should be contented with what he/she is.

We are born in a certain body..certain DNA for a reason.

Its per our Karma we acquire a human body that is best suited to carry out our duties in life.

I am not a pure breed and there is no need for me to be what I am not. Feeling welcomed/blessed/admitted is not about changing our identity..feeling welcomed is about bonding,respecting and accepting the differences with each other.

There is something unique being ourselves..that is the idea of respecting our Creator cos He put us in a body to realize our purpose in existence.

Pure breed or mixed breed..to me everyone is here for a reason.

Dear renuka
Accepting of self for what one is and what one is not is a sign of resignation to ones status.

Wisdom is to protest unequal laws and rules and claiming what is your right and you consider ethical .

You can refuse to be treated as a doormat who will not protest.

One cannot write anything off to karmas .

All this duty business is a way of coping and cheating yourself.

You can assert your own identity and create a space where you can bond with many , caring for others who are different and in return expecting to be cared for.

I do not know if there is a creator . let us not bring him in to justify your life stance

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

hi

veppillai katti/maahani kizhangu/maa vadus are famous produsts of THANGAM PICKLES FROM PALAKKAD....i buy every year very

regularly in chennai....now a days a scarcity for MAAHANI KIZHANGU PICKLES....its season business too...i buy every year



to USA.....when i visit chennai...these three are in my purchasing list ...especially FROM THANGAM PRODUCTS,PALAKKAD...

i heard that there are some agencies in bangalore/mumbai also....where palakkad brahmin communities dominated...

Taste of Brahmins! There are odd ones who hate வேப்பலகட்டி! - Another trait - Can't stand பூண்டு again odd ones love பூண்டு!

 

[renuka]

You can assert your own identity and create a space where you can bond with many , caring for others who are different and in return expecting to be cared for.

Dear Krish ji,

I am not the assertive types and neither am I a door mat.

So far in life I have not experienced the type of inequality that I might want to protest about.

I know men like to feel they are superior than females....thats fine with me cos men can end up doing all the work since they always feel they know better!LOL

 

[sangom]

Aside: we recently bought some veppilakatti from palakkad through my relative... yum yum.

We now get the "mixie" variety more easily bit the leaf bits will be conspicuous in such products and it is rather dangerous if young children get their throat choked by a large leaf bit!

The 'ural-pounded' variety is rare and it will be a homogeneous powder just like Ayurveda Churnams. That is what is safer and will remain intact and unpolluted for about 18 months, as per our tradition.

 

[Vaagmi]

Ah but even though you are often admired in this forum, you have not been officially approved, blessed and admitted into pure-breed fold. Unfortunately in Harry Potter terms, you will always be considered a "mud-blood" by the "pure bloods" even though you may be as the smartest wizard of all like Hermione Granger.

What is this official approval?

Is there anyone who has been officially approved, blessed and admitted into the socalled pure-bred fold of this forum? If there are any please enlighten the poor souls here. At least I would like to know. Please oblige.

I am under the impression that each one here comes here as an individual with his/her views and he or she is respected or criticised for the views.

Are you sure that I am a "pure-bred" brahmin? This is an open forum and does not restrict on the basis of labels.

To get declared as a brahmin by the forum members here is not something like getting a Nobel prize. Period.

I object to the snide remarks contained in the quoted post.

When are we going to accept heterogeneity among human beings without immediately connecting it to superiority/inferiority or purity/impurity ?

Can there not be a NB who is pure or who is superior intellectually and in qualities?

I am glad that Renukaji did not "react". That makes her superior.

 

[sangom]

Sangomji,

As far as exclusivity in buying sweets & snacks is concerned TB's have shed any sort of discrimination...Gllobal TB's are buying in tons from Grand sweets which is not TB owned..We relish the taste but we are not particular that it be brought or made only from/by a TB...The technique is 100% TB..30 years back one Mami taught them how to make kara kara seedai and murukku and the Grand sweets replicated it & scaled it up...Adyar Anand Bhavan serves very tasty Adai aviyal in Vadapalani...These are made by a mami..10 years later may be it is made by a nadar woman..So long as it tastes authentic I will buy from there...

So why should TB's only make veppalai katti ..So long as it is authentic I will buy from anywhere

50 years back only TB's slogged to make the dishes...Now the rest are slogging to serve TB culture on a plate..I would go ahead & lap it up

Who said that the girls of yore were not educated.We are providing light to the family by providing education to the girl child...Let us not under estimate the power..By proper guidance our girls can be molded to be the beacon of hope for nurturing our culture and traditions!

Shri Ganeshji,

So, you agree that as far as edible items are concerned, it does not matter who (whether B or NB) makes them as long as it tastes good. I fully agree. But the point we were discussing was preserving (and passing on to the ensuing generations) those things which were exclusive to the TB ways of living some hundred years or so ago, was it not? Or, is it simply increasing the number of population born to Tamil Brahmin couples (both husband and wife to be authentic Tamil Brahmins, no IC or IR mix anywhere up the line)? In the case of the latter, the real TB couples should be exhorted to produce more children, just by taking the example of Muslims; it is that simple, if feasible! But will it be possible—now or in the near future? That is what requires in-depth consideration.

Since we have already agreed that there is no problem with TB cuisine being "taken over" by NBs, what great objection can we have if some TB girl or boy marries a NB? Just like the sweets or VeppilaikkaTTi, they may well give birth to good quality offspring though we may have difficulty in granting them full Tamil Brahmin status. (I recollect my school days when boys who had a TB father and a nair woman for mother, being heckled as "saami Saami"! Tbs were usually addressed as "saami" in those days here, our of reverence, and the Sanskrit word Saami also means "half", you see!)

I there fore feel that no useful or tangible purpose will be served by compulsorily trying to bring down IC & IR marriages and thus trying to increase our share of total population anywhere.

 

[Vaagmi]

We now get the "mixie" variety more easily bit the leaf bits will be conspicuous in such products and it is rather dangerous if young children get their throat choked by a large leaf bit!

The 'ural-pounded' variety is rare and it will be a homogeneous powder just like Ayurveda Churnams. That is what is safer and will remain intact and unpolluted for about 18 months, as per our tradition.

And the vadu mangai prepared by some of the Nambudri Families in Kerala is unique. They select a certain uniformly mature vadus from a large number of pieces of various maturities and sizes first. Then these vadus after washing in salt water are applied a thin coat of castor seed oil/coconut oil. Then the other ingradients like turmeric, salt and chilli powder are added in appropriate quantitites according to taste and the mixture is left untouched for a week. The next step is the most unique one. These vadus along with the juices in which they marinate is transferred to a brand new mud pot which is then sealed appropriately and buried at least two cubits down into the earth in the garden. The pot is taken out after a period of 15 days and then the vadus are consumed. I have tasted these vadus and they are worth a fortune.

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

And the vadu mangai prepared by some of the Nambudri Families in Kerala is unique. They select a certain uniformly mature vadus from a large number of pieces of various maturities and sizes first. Then these vadus after washing in salt water are applied a thin coat of castor seed oil/coconut oil. Then the other ingradients like turmeric, salt and chilli powder are added in appropriate quantitites according to taste and the mixture is left untouched for a week. The next step is the most unique one. These vadus along with the juices in which they marinate is transferred to a brand new mud pot which is then sealed appropriately and buried at least two cubits down into the earth in the garden. The pot is taken out after a period of 15 days and then the vadus are consumed. I have tasted these vadus and they are worth a fortune.

மாகாணி needs no preservaties - not even oil - Soaked in தயிர் and lemon juice! But lot of labour invoved in peeling and cutting it to pieces!

 

[sangom]

And the vadu mangai prepared by some of the Nambudri Families in Kerala is unique. They select a certain uniformly mature vadus from a large number of pieces of various maturities and sizes first. Then these vadus after washing in salt water are applied a thin coat of castor seed oil/coconut oil. Then the other ingradients like turmeric, salt and chilli powder are added in appropriate quantitites according to taste and the mixture is left untouched for a week. The next step is the most unique one. These vadus along with the juices in which they marinate is transferred to a brand new mud pot which is then sealed appropriately and buried at least two cubits down into the earth in the garden. The pot is taken out after a period of 15 days and then the vadus are consumed. I have tasted these vadus and they are worth a fortune.

In north India, a somewhat similar process is used to keep fresh mustard seed oil from the latest harvest, in fresh mud-pots under the earth for the entire winter season and then taken out. The oil becomes something like Dalda or pure ghee with less of the pungent smell of mustard oil. This 'processed' oil is supposed to be very cooling for the body during the summer months and also very healthy!

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear vganeji,

You made a marvellous effort to start a search for steps to be taken for the good of the brahmin community.

Our members have expressed their views.

1. sravnaji, as usual, has stressed on the acceptance of scriptures (post #3) and has gone another step and stressed that we should stop being casteist, stop looking down upon others as every being is inherently divine. Let there be just two groups only the spiritual and the materialistic, he said. There can not be a birth-based division among people he stressed further (post#6)

2. krish44ji, as usual stressed the need for freedom of choice across castes for marriage and offered tips for behaviour by boys on their dating outings. Though he compared your post to a ten point programme with the slogan brahmin bachao and compared it with the political parties' populist programmes he agreed with the basic thrust of what you have stated in your post. (post #4.) However he later, as the discussion progressed, veered round to the view that brahmins should become politically active and support causes of Tamil language and Tamil diaspora living in Eelam, S'pore and Malaysia. (post #36)

3. ganesh65ji, identified dowry as a major issue for the community.(post#7)

4. Mrs. Visalakshi, in an expansive mood, asked what is all this fuss about sliding of the numbers of brahmins and asked non-chalantly what if it does? She asked for a single true brahmin to be shown to her. She said expansively that every one should become a citizen of the world without boundaries of caste, creed, sects, languages, city, country, nation, religion etc., If boys and girls can meet each other, study together, work together, travel together etc., why should they not marry particularly as hormones and pheromones rules over them.(post#8) She later (in post #13) even quoted scientific laws to stress the need to recognize natural forces and give in.

5. Renukaji first came to bless your efforts with a tatastu (post #2) and later wondered (in post #17) whether TB women are not under tremendous amount of stress to conform to expectations-of the ritualistic variety.

6. tbsji quipped that we can control the TB boys but not the girls (post #16)

7. Zebraji, in post #38 asked you what exactly is the expectation from an agraharam and admitted that he had never lived in an agraharam. Again in his post #48 was doubtful about the utility of promoting Sanskrit.

8. RRji was sceptic about modernizing the houses in the agraharam (post #40.)

9. Sangomji came and damned the whole idea as அரைத்து அரைத்து புளித்துப்போன மாவு. He took cudgels on behalf of TB women and questioned the wisdom of calling them papayonis (a misquote from a verse in BG) (post #65)

10. JJji in her post #66 took off tangentially and brought in தயிர் சாதம், மாவடு,மாகாணிகிழங்கு ஊறுகாய் and வேப்பிலைக்கட்டி to the discussion table as cultural traits of TBs even while denouncing the culture as பெருங்காயம் வைத்த பாண்டம். post #66.

This is briefly the discussion so far.

May I interpret these views as an existential dilemma? "To be (a brahmin) or not to be" appears to be the basic dilemma here with many of our friends.

It is as if a community suffering a divine curse of some sort is trying to grope in the darkness for a light to switch on. Because of the constant and relentless attack on the community by a large majority outside, the individual member, many a time expresses a doubt about the validity of his origins as brahmin. Partly it is due the Goebbellsian propoganda that goes in the name of liberalism and intellectualism with a nefarious political hatred agenda at the base. The outward symptoms of this onslaught's devastating effect is 1) the frequent chest beating (ஒப்பாரி) and 2) the low self esteem expressed as a stockholm syndrome by becoming active supporters of the very political agenda that robed them of their self esteem and self respect. And partly it is also due to the inexorable march of time. It is forgotten that every development in the march of time may not be good and that there can be harmful developments too. Simply put, it appears people are ready to crawl and lick the boots of time to its own surprise when the time expected you only to bend and mend your ways. Time tested values are given up in a moment to acquire doubtful values in their place. Coming back to the discussion in hand, it is enough to say that the members have somehow missed the thrust of your opening post. So let us make a start to place the subject in its proper perspective and have further discussions on it.

I suggest the following points be accepted as basic facts so that a useful discussion can be had on how to move forward from here.

1. The society is by its very nature heterogeneous. And it has remained beautiful and functional that way in the last several hundreds of years.. There is no need to homogenise it and make it a place of morons. This does not mean that there are superior and inferior people and so inferior people should be slaves of superior people. We do not subscribe to that theory just as we do not subscribe to the other theory that all are equally endowed with. This is the subject which we have discussed repeatedly in this forum and it has become the அரைத்து அரைத்து புளித்துப் போன மாவு as a member stated. Once we accept the heterogeneous nature of the society, we can move forward with our discussion about the TB community's dwindling numbers and what it portends. If anyone wants to dispute this, we can discuss it elaborately in a different thread as we have enough expertise to do that -அரைச்ச மாவை அரைக்கவும் துவச்ச துணிய துவைக்கவும் .

(to be continued )