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How much of a hypocrite we all are

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subbudu1

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I was having a strong feeling for the past few days or weeks that I must lead a life without hypocrisy, without wasteful discussions, anger , productive lifestyle etc.

If you remember the arguments between Happy Hindu and KRS. Happy Hindu brought forward a lot of points about the hypocrisy in the Tamil Brahmins. I realized at that time, how much of a hypocrite we . all appear in front of those who judge us. I frankly felt that the reply of KRS was hypocritical.But I felt within myself that I am also not perfect at all in many ways. Then there were these arguments in which myself and a few others were involved with the moderator. There was tension anger all of which appear silly and repulsive to youngsters who read the forum. Is this the kind of treasure that we all want to leave for the younger generation.

Another thing was this forum becoming addictive so much that I have neglected some of my basic duties at the cost of posting here. The advaita discussions were meaningless on hindsight as nothing good came out of it. Advaita may or may not be a failed philosophy but we have failed ourselves by participating in that.

If we should advice the youngsters we should be a perfect example of what we speak. This is what I would advice anyone and anybody. I am not in that situation today. I can speak for myself and I would advice the youngsters to not worry about the tamilbrahmins forum too much, read for pleasure. If you find a genuine and sincere person listen to their views. However use your own intelligence to decide the right from the wrong.

I have written a lot of heartfelt things. My views on women and divorce are all heartfelt statements. May be the youngsters can take something from that. But dont listen to me because you feel it seems intelligent. Think about things.

I want to be a perfect example of what I believe to be.

Participating in the forum makes me talk my views more and less on correcting myself.

I want to ensure that there is no hypocrite participating in this forum. I sincerely request all members to be a perfect example of what they believe in before teaching the youngsters. With this I depart.

Cheers to all and the youngsters spend time working hard and occassionaly read such forums for knowledge or please, but use your independant minds.

The first thing I have to settle is use my own time for my family better. At this time forum does not let me. It brings the worser side of me.

.
 
dear subbudu, suraju,

i think this thread and weekend brahmins as envisaged by suraju are so much similar, in their dealings with hypocracy and ourselves.

i for one, claim no excuse from hypocracy. it is part of being a human. hypocracy, i think, provides us with a shield - to protect ourselves, give us airs, good feelings, and feeling superior to others. all of which, i think, is part of the characterestics of a normal human. ie anyone here on this earth, other than saints, whom i think, no longer exist anyway.

it is the degree of hypocracy, that may be questioned, or disliked by others.

after all, i consider myself a reformer. not because i want to go about changing the hindu religion. it is because, i have shed various practices - either because i could not adhere to the strict regimen demanded by it, or i found it basically diametrical to my essential beliefs of equality of man or just onerous to fit in today's life.

i see today many relatives celebrating the poonal of their sons. all of them are by suraju's definition 'weekend brahmins'. is there anything wrong in it. i would say not. they are not harming anyone. they have a few extra dolla or rupees to burn, which they do, with glee. that the kid, immediately hangs the poonal on the nail on the wall the same evening is of no consequence, either to him, the father, or us - the public.

the issue comes, when such a father, starts questioning me as to why i did not poonal my kids. further more, because of that, i am accused of letting down our tradition, being a false brahmin and above all, a bad father.

since i do not have the poonal, and lead though a fairly harmless life (in my opinion), i did not feel comfortable swinging one on the poonal day, whispering the gayathri (which again i am opposed to in the current poonal belief that gayathri is a 'brahmin only' jabam as this was what was told to me by my vaathiar during my poonal). in my kids' eyes i would be deemed a hypocrite, for preaching what i did not practice or believe. just for the sake of society or relatives.

the line between hypocracy and not, is a thin one. putting on a poonal for one's son for a showpiece, is not hypocracy in my opinion. putting on a holier than thou attitude and pointing the finger at me, is to me, one sort of hypocracy.

such like, there are many types.

after all, as KRS (where is HE these days?) used to say, all of us are percent brahmins. some 20% and some 45% and most of us inbetween somewhere there. that the 45% tambram, calling the 20% cohort, a false brahmin, to me, is hypocracy.

i think, the world is large enough, for all of us. including this forum. there are many many posts here, purely of a religious nature. i have yet to see a reformist, go there, and put his foot, where the mouth should be.

but i have seen a lot of threads, which are by nature, attempting to resolve the issue of how to adjust ourselves to the ever fast changing world and which appear to attract a tad more sarcasm or anger from the traditionalist, that what would warrant.

arguements of the philosophic kind brings out the best and the worst in us. in our passion, we tend to negate the belief of the other. in our passion too, we exhibit how learned and erudite we are.

religion and politics, by their very nature are divisive. by that definition, the weekend brahmin, his traditionalist brother and reformist sister, are destined for ever to argue. but nothing should prevent them, once in a while, to stop, think, and share a hug. after all, we all belong to the vasudeva kutumbam. dont we.

subbudu, i too left the forum, though in a stupid huff, and not as elegant as you want. but i believe, that there is no finality in anything we do, till we breathe our last. the worst reason, in my opinion to leave, is to go, because you are bored of the forum. i left a forum where i was very active, but suddenly got bored. then i found this one. the day i am bored of this one, i hope it is far into the future. but then, one never knows.

hasta la vista subbudu. meaning, we will see you again. :) till then take a vacation. :)
 
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.... all of them are by suraju's definition 'weekend brahmins'.
K, I have to take severe exception to this. The two terms, "weekend brahmins" and "wannabe orthodox" are mine, I was the one who first introduced them to the delight of some, I optimistically presume, and to the chagrin of many as my ego would have it.

Hypocrisy comes in so many flavors, doesn't it? A confirmed atheist, what would I do when my father passes away as all of us one day will? I will do what my mother and other family members I respect expect of me, and that would be hypocrisy, I know. But I think the charge of hypocrisy against me is a small price to pay for the sake of my mother's and other family member's mental satisfaction.

But, there is another kind of hypocrisy, one that enforces a double standard, like the Republicans who are happy to have Senator Vitter (Google for juicy details) in their midst, and yet criticize Congressman Weiner (Google for more juicy details). This kind of hypocrisy is what Subbudu sir talking about, I think, one that applies a double standard.

I was an intimate part of the so called "orthodox" and "traditional" brahmins, the ones who learn the Vedas and are steadfast in their misguided faith. I have first-hand experience with the kind of hypocrisy they engage in. But, I am sympathetic to their hypocrisy, because their hypocrisy is motivated by survival, making a living. Contrast this with the hypocrisy of the wannabe orthodoxy, the weekend brahmin (TM) , these are the ones who feel comfortable nursing Scotch on the rocks in a 5* hotel one evening, and adorn the marks of orthodoxy the next day. This is the kind of hypocrisy that Subbudu sir is talking about, I think, one that applies double standard.

When I see my own relatives, middle-class professionals, having a comfortable life-style, talking about Brahmin "pedigree" as if humans are some sort of dog genetically manipulated by an unseen higher-being keeping track of karma, enough to make a confirmed atheist, cry out oh lord!

is there anything wrong in it. i would say not. they are not harming anyone.
IMO, they are harming the younger generation, pouring their poison of Brahmin exclusivity/superiority into the unsuspecting younguns. This, in all probability, is not intentional, but they ought to know better.

hasta la vista subbudu. meaning, we will see you again.
Another sad loss if Subbudu sir is also leaving, coming after the great loss of Sangom sir.

best ....
 
To a certain extent all of us are hypocrites.We really cant program our mind to be the same all the while.
Mind is fickle and so will be our actions sometimes but that's life.
None of us are perfect and neither should we even think to be a super hero/heroine to change the world.
The world existed even before anyone of us were born.

I dont know how many read what I posted in another thread but I will paste it again here.

Warning Against Interference


In The Great Divorce C. S. Lewis writes of a woman who cannot stand to not be running other people's lives. "Give me someone to 'do' something with," is her constant demand. She cannot exist on her own, but must live through others. A great many people do this, not least those addicted to "spectator sports" as well as adulation of heroes and "stars" in many areas of life--usually all useless and mostly destructive in the long run. Terrible suffering is produced by the insistence of governments and families that their members must be ordered about and changed in various ways "for their own good." I would like to offer you some advice: Whenever anyone says to you: "I only want you to be happy...," RUN. For they really only want to be happy themselves by controlling and reshaping you to their ideas. Few things are more vicious.

My mother used to laugh and say: "There is not a thing in the world my father does not think he can't improve on." Actually, he was right, for my grandfather was a great creative genius who could accomplish just about anything in the external world--especially in improving gadgets and machines. Still, the addiction to tinkering with the people and things around us can be a grave defect, as Lao Tzu now explains.

Sure failure
"There are those who will conquer the world and make of it (what they conceive or desire). I see that they will not succeed" (Tao Teh King 29:1). Wu: "Does anyone want to take the world and do what he wants with it? I do not see how he can succeed."
Swami Vivekananda has expounded this far better than I ever could. Ego is at the root of the problem of "world changers," and he explained their folly in this way in his book Karma Yoga.

"There was a poor man who wanted some money; and somehow he had heard that if he could get hold of a ghost, he might command him to bring money or anything else he liked; so he was very anxious to get hold of a ghost. He went about searching for a man who would give him a ghost, and at last he found a sage with great powers, and besought his help. The sage asked him what he would do with a ghost. 'I want a ghost to work for me; teach me how to get hold of one, sir; I desire it very much,' replied the man. But the sage said, 'Don't disturb yourself, go home.' The next day the man went again to the sage and began to weep and pray, 'Give me a ghost; I must have a ghost, sir, to help me.' At last the sage was disgusted, and said, 'Take this charm, repeat this magic word, and a ghost will come, and whatever you say to him he will do. But beware; they are terrible beings, and must be kept continually busy. If you fail to give him work, he will take your life.' The man replied, 'That is easy; I can give him work for all his life.' Then he went to a forest, and after long repetition of the magic word, a huge ghost appeared before him, and said, 'I am a ghost. I have been conquered by your magic; but you must keep me constantly employed. The moment you fail to give me work I will kill you.' The man said, 'Build me a palace,' and the ghost said, 'It is done; the palace is built.' 'Bring me money,' said the man. 'Here is your money,' said the ghost. 'Cut this forest down, and build a city in its place.' 'That is done,' said the ghost, 'anything more?' Now the man began to be frightened and thought he could give him nothing more to do; he did everything in a trice. The ghost said, 'Give me something to do or I will eat you up.' The poor man could find no further occupation for him, and was frightened. So he ran and ran and at last reached the sage, and said, 'Oh, sir, protect my life!' The sage asked him what the matter was, and the man replied, 'I have nothing to give the ghost to do. Everything I tell him to do he does in a moment, and he threatens to eat me up if I do not give him work.' Just then the ghost arrived, saying, 'I'll eat you up,' and he would have swallowed the man. The man began to shake, and begged the sage to save his life. The sage said, 'I will find you a way out. Look at that dog with a curly tail. Draw your sword quickly and cut the tail off and give it to the ghost to straighten out.' The man cut off the dog's tail and gave it to the ghost, saying, 'Straighten that out for me.' The ghost took it and slowly and carefully straightened it out, but as soon as he let it go, it instantly curled up again. Once more he laboriously straightened it out, only to find it again curled up as soon as he attempted to let go of it. Again he patiently straightened it out, but as soon as he let it go, it curled up again. So he went on for days and days, until he was exhausted and said, 'I was never in such trouble before in my life. I am an old veteran ghost, but never before was I in such trouble.' 'I will make a compromise with you;' he said to the man, 'you let me off and I will let you keep all I have given you and will promise not to harm you.' The man was much pleased, and accepted the offer gladly.

"This world is like a dog's curly tail, and people have been striving to straighten it out for hundreds of years; but when they let it go, it has curled up again. How could it be otherwise? One must first know how to work without attachment, then one will not be a fanatic. When we know that this world is like a dog's curly tail and will never get straightened, we shall not become fanatics. If there were no fanaticism in the world, it would make much more progress than it does now. It is a mistake to think that fanaticism can make for the progress of mankind. On the contrary, it is a retarding element creating hatred and anger, and causing people to fight each other, and making them unsympathetic. We think that whatever we do or possess is the best in the world, and what we do not do or possess is of no value. So, always remember the instance of the curly tail of the dog whenever you have a tendency to become a fanatic. You need not worry or make yourself sleepless about the world; it will go on without you. When you have avoided fanaticism, then alone will you work well. It is the level-headed man, the calm man, of good judgment and cool nerves, of great sympathy and love, who does good work and so does good to himself. The fanatic is foolish and has no sympathy; he can never straighten the world, nor himself become pure and perfect."



Taken from ATMA JYOTI NEWSLETTER


P.S:Even I had left once before and I realized we leave becos we feel people do not think like us..so in a way we are expecting everyone to be like us and thats not possible at all.

One more thing believe me..If you join any 100% perfect Forum after a while you will get bored cos none of us can be good all the while.
 
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Dear Subbudu Ji,

Why you want to leave forum? Where can you get better entertainment.Here we have nice stories, good fights and also songs sequences.Maniratnam should log in here.He will get idea for next movie.
Dont go.Stay Ok.
 
Dear Folks

I just came across this song and when I substituted the word 'Vazhvae' with 'Forum' I couldn't help smiling. Thought of posting the link over here (just to lighten up the mood) - YouTube - ‪vazhve mayama‬‏

PS. To be taken/viewed in a lighter vein. It is not my intention to hurt/disrespect anyone or the forum.

Regards
Valli
 
Friends the reason for considering departing is that I would like to see myself be more productive. This forum has given me some pieces to think and I would like to implement something rather than just chatter away. I might still participate but only where I can put forward comments which can benefit our youngsters. I would again like to reiterate that youngsters should think every word that is said here in this forum, including mine. After due consideration only they should be infuenced. Because I see the world of the older generation TB to be filled with hypocrisy, with some exceptions.

I want to add a piece here since Raju has started his defense of the weekend brahmin. Though I cannot judge for everyone.
Let us be honest. If somebody believes in the vedas they should fully go into vaideekam. Neither the vaidikas are stopping them from learning vedas nor is it impossible. They should also grow kudumi. Many white collar jobs will tolerate it in the same way they tolerate a sikh turban but that is besides the point- a white collar job is not needed for the believer. The people who live their life by priesthood survived 50 years back and they survive even now. An often quoted saying is -Dharmo Rakshathi Rakshitha. Who is preventing this modern weekend brahmins from hurling themselves fully into the world of tradition. If one can pass an engineering exam , I am sure he is capable of learning vedas with a basic degree of proficiency. That should be enough for his survival.

The retort of this wannabe brahmins is they are following tradition to the best of their ability, which is not true and is obviously glaring. That is fine. But it becomes very hypocritical when people parade their orthodoxy. A gentleman I know - the wannabe orthodox man, who recites rudram listening to a tape recorder, he has no problem eating in hotels and other places. That is fine that is this man's definition of orthodoxy. When his child married an NB, this man who visited his sambandi to fix the marriage( much to his disinclination) , he refused to have even coffee or tea at the sambandi's house( trying to prove a point that he is a brahmanan). How much hurt the NB would have been. This is the wannabe orthodox in full action.

There are hundreds of examples. The wannabe orthodox as I have seen wants the best of both worlds , modern lifestyle and easy tradition. What I mean by easy tradition, is tradition that does not call for a major sacrifice in their life style. Like the man who kept commenting about the vulgarity in tv songs, but yet continued to switch the channel and watch them. Either stop watching things, admit your mistake and talk about vulgarity. Or keep quiet. Or say that there is nothing wrong with such pictures on tv.

The wannabe orthodox talks of high things like advaita, dvaita etc. Some of them speak ill of people of counter philosophy. Only a simple examination of their life style will reveal their true colors. There should not be a difference in what we believe and what we do.

Raju says there cannot be a dialogue between the modern and the orthodox. If the orthodox is truly sincere, and a good man, it is easy to have a conversation with him. Two vadhiyars- One I will call the kova karar and the other I shall call santha swaroopan. The former vadhiyar we have seen too many, gets irritated by the little things in a puja. I remember a ceremony in which one such orthodox vadhiyar kept on smacking is forehead with the little apacharams going on. He wss irritated with panchagacham not being worn properly, by somebody not following his instructions etc. It is difficult for many to have dialogue with such people. But I can say with confidence that I know some pleasant tempered orthodox people. They dont throw their irritation around. Things may not be to their liking. But they have a gentle discussion and if they dont like it they calmly leave the sabha. For doubts, they sincerely advice. It is certainly possible to have conversation with such reasonable men of tradition.

With the wannabe orthodox you have to deal with a complex person, multi layered, who may hold high opinion about his family origins but will nowhere deserve such respect by any measure.

If you are a straight person , you would follow tradition may be with a blend of modernity. But you will not make fun of modern values.

I agree all of us are hypocrites , but we need to change, change for the better. The line has been crossed when we hold false notions of superiority to top it all. Let us not pretend to be advaitins, smarthan, purva mimasakans etc without immersing ourselves fully in it. Say boldly I am a modern person, I am not sure about my religion and philosophy or I am not convinced fully or say I am greedy for money and material values or say I am not convinced that god will protect me if I follow vedam. So I blend it with modernism. Then it is good. But all this tamasha of high philosophy and low living is no good.

The last statement I apply to myself and I will limit my discussions.
 
This is a community forum dedicated to the improvement in the lives of the community members. Many discussions have been started to educate the members of the community so that they can integrate better with other communities.

Basically we are addressing the Tamil Brahmins who are still living in Tamil Nadu.

Hypocracy arises only when you say something which you do not practice. May be some of us are not consistent. But then it is said "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago."
 
Sri Kunjuppu,

Instead of writing in many words , I take liberty in quoting from your post , in parts , which really form my view in this regard... I am with you in these words cent-per-cent with your view.



..................................................................
i for one, claim no excuse from hypocracy. it is part of being a human. hypocracy, i think, provides us with a shield - to protect ourselves, give us airs, good feelings, and feeling superior to others. all of which, i think, is part of the characterestics of a normal human. ie anyone here on this earth, other than saints, whom i think, no longer exist anyway.

it is the degree of hypocracy, that may be questioned, or disliked by others.

......................................................................................
i see today many relatives celebrating the poonal of their sons. ...............is there anything wrong in it. i would say not. they are not harming anyone. ...........................................

the issue comes, when such a father, starts questioning me as to why i did not poonal my kids. further more, because of that, i am accused of letting down our tradition,.........................

the line between hypocracy and not, is a thin one. putting on a poonal for one's son for a showpiece, is not hypocracy in my opinion. putting on a holier than thou attitude and pointing the finger at me, is to me, one sort of hypocracy.

UNQUOTE

As regards Sri Subbudu, again I concur in the following.....
QUOTE
....."i think, the world is large enough, for all of us. including this forum. ...............
.............................religion and politics, by their very nature are divisive. by that definition, ......., are destined for ever to argue. but nothing should prevent them, once in a while, to stop, think, and share a hug. after all, we all belong to the vasudeva kutumbam. dont we."
...UNQUOTE

Sri Subbudu was repeatedly exhorting youngsters to think and accept what is right. I would like to say that youngsters need all kind of inputs to sift thru them and arrive at their stand.Each elder will be anxious that the youngster should pick up right.... Sometimes they get it right, sometimes just go wrong... nobody can help it. .But to arrive at some stand youngsters need all varieties of input, even diametrically opposite views also.. So in that way they need Sri Subbudu”s views also....they may accept , it or they may reject it ....

Personally speaking, I came thru various stages like starting with the receiving of natural traditional household teachings of “Ummachi”...Nithya paarayana slokas..temple and GOD. upanayanam..seen sradham etc being performed in the home...etc.. But then... teenage saw me rebelling , defying and questioning...then soaring to rationalist ideology, leftist leanings and theory...atheism...then slowing down to Agnosticism ..and now nearing landing stage when ... finding comfort and meaning and value(in my own way)... in accepting the traditional beliefs and practices, traditional literatures...ritual.. ...

Am I a hypocrat..? If so at what stage it started ?...

In this forum, I believe, that writers may not be that much hypocratic. A person shows hypocracy , when he needs to put up a different face than what he is...In the virtual world of cyber forums, as there is a protection of anonymity, writers may be more true to their beliefs and stands , a they are more confident of protection, against non-acceptance.They do not so their real physical face..

So I believe that by and large the Forum does not suffer from hypocracy......May be people have their own views,which they feel more free to vent in the forum than would have done at any other real –life situations.



Greeetings...
 
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This forum represents the hypocracy of the Tamil Brahmin community. But why Tamil Brahmins alone? The world is full of hypocracy.

Many discussions reflect the hypocracy of the community.

1. Smoking is bad and not suitable for Brahmins. But then how about Snuff and tobacco chewing the community had permitted for decades? It permits even taking of opium.

2. We keep on insisting that Brahmins never took meat though history reveals other way round. We rewrite the story of Agasthya and Vathapi to reflect our new found thinking. Twist history. Then swear that the Vedic Yagnas never involved animal sacrifices. Anyone who says otherwise is blamed for reading western translations. Blame the Englishmen and westerners for all our ills.

3. Deny that women were treated very badly by our society. They were treated as property. Insist that child marriages were a blessing.

4. A child born of a marriage between a Brahmin and a Sudra can never be a Brahmin. Then pray how is Veda Vyasa the son of Sathyavathi a fisher woman a Brahmin? In fact the entire kuru race were the descendants of Sathyavathi a shudra.

I can go on and on.

The younger generation is appalled at this hypocracy.
 
Dear nara,

1000 apologies re my faux pas re origin ownership of words. Please forgive me. if you need me to do any praayaschitham, let me know. Thank you

:) :)
 
dear sury,

there is, I think, one other kind of tambram that has been omitted from the list. for want of any better word, I will call them, pseudo-politicos.

We used to have a bunch here in this forum. These are not interested in religion or Vedas or customs. These dabble in today’s politics. Safely from the comfort of an armchair, but have no issues inciting hatred towards whom they do not like.

Even this morning, I received an email from a ‘respected’ 80 year old elder from my family, exhorting the fairness and justification of gandhi’s murder by godse. This apparently was godse’s court statement. To me Gandhi, was the instrument which got us our freedom. Barring Pakistanis, I am yet to find a person, who does not like him – some 20% and some 100%, and most inbetween there.

The pseudo politicos, usually built their arguments based on fear. For this to happen, they will note and exaggerate,every supposed insult or injury or damage to a hindu edifice. Mostly by muslims, but also by Christians. The next step, would be to exhort the youth, to join such organizations who ‘protect’ hindu culture and our girls from the foray of those who are against us.

The ‘against’ list is long – it is simply anyone who does not agree with them. if you are tambram, and you do not agree, the vitriol is magnified 100 fold, proving again that civil wars cause the greatest unforgiving and vicious casualties. After all, just last week, we had sarvajith51, showing the fangs, of yet another dissatisfied upset frustrated tambram venting his poison here. Against me personally.

I suspect there is a sizeable silent readership out there, many from the younger generation. For this forum. When I was carrying my fights with these pseudos, I used to challenge these – why not send their own children as cannon fodder for the street fights? Would they be willing to face the consequences of the loss of spouses, sons, brothers within their own families?

I should, in retrospect, say that I owe a big thanks to Praveen, the owner of the forum, for having stood by me then. For I can only imagine the number of emails that he must have received, not only questioning my tambram credentials, but also how much of a ‘brahmana dhuvesham’ I practise, and a true brahmana dhrogi, that I am.

There was one reply, at random, from one of the youth who used to read our posts regularly. That the youth could not be duped by folks preaching one view or the other. They have the sense to evaluate, choose, judge and pick out what is relevant to them. soooo, this is my standard answer, to private messages, that I get every once in a while, as to why I am on the path of ‘corrupting’ the youth will ‘modern’ and worse, ‘western’ ideas.

One dear friend who is no longer in the forum, when I vetted out one of my frustrations prior to quitting, replied, that the tambram community is an essentially conservative one. They will change. But they will not accept their changes. Publicly any way.

I hold this above to be more true than what it generalizes. Most of us, I think, tend to grasp at the straws of conservatism – for various reasons. but, when it comes to our own lives, none of us. I repeat none of us. Would ever compromise, on what is best at that time, for some advantage – material, jobwise or simply to feel good.

A relative of mine, used to define the current tambram – as a community defined by 3Cs – cash, convenience and comfort. I say ‘amen’ to that.
 
i notice a kutty posting from valli.

lest i scare her away, i will not comment on it. but just to let her know, that we would like some more female participation.

valli, and revathi - hope to see you more here. :)
 
indira parthasarathy is a guy whom i admire (along with gnani, jeyamohan among others).

i follow his blogs off and on. here is an interesting one that came yesterday. there are 3 dramatis personae, each more fascinating than the other. the ending is sheer unexpected. o henry, take a bow!

as a progressive tambram, he has had his share of quarrels with the traditionalists. on top of that, having tambram ancestrage, has had to put up with more than his share of vitriol from the dravdian intellectuals.

http://indiraparthasarathy.wordpress.com/
 
Speaking about Hypocrites...Some here do not use their real names and we know nuts about them too even though some might write as if they are defenders of the universe..so isnt that being a hypocrite too?

So no big deal..all of us have faults.
 
Hello,

I somehow fail to come to grips with the "fixtation" with pooNul in this forum. Sri Kunjuppu in msg # 2 stated:

"i see today many relatives celebrating the poonal of their sons. all of them are by suraju's definition 'weekend brahmins'. is there anything wrong in it. i would say not. they are not harming anyone. they have a few extra dolla or rupees to burn, which they do, with glee. that the kid, immediately hangs the poonal on the nail on the wall the same evening is of no consequence, either to him, the father, or us - the public."

In response Sri Nara stated:
"IMO, they are harming the younger generation, pouring their poison of Brahmin exclusivity/superiority into the unsuspecting younguns. This, in all probability, is not intentional, but they ought to know better."

The type of TB Sri Kunjuppu describes in his message is not even going to be a weekend or wannabe TB, so how the thread ceremony can pour poison in his ears etc. I am unable to fathom.

As regards exclusivity of pooNul ceremony of TBs, what force is stopping non-TBs from adopting them in their family function and wear a pooNul? As observed in IC/IR marriages, most probably a TB vadhyar will also officiate the thread ceremony.

Why people would like TBs to dis-associate with pooNul ceremony in quest of equality? Why not ask the other communities to emulate the same and squash the supposed superiority arising from pooNul?

Regards,

narayan
 
Speaking about Hypocrites...Some here do not use their real names and we know nuts about them too even though some might write as if they are defenders of the universe..so isnt that being a hypocrite too?

So no big deal..all of us have faults.

That is not hypocracy. It is the norm on the internet. We are not Facebook. One should be judged by what he/she has posted and not by his/her name, Kulam and Gothram.

We always emphasize that one should reply to the post and not the person.

There are forums which ask you to jump through loops before admitting you as a member. But here we have no hidden agenda.
 
That is not hypocracy. It is the norm on the internet. We are not Facebook. One should be judged by what he/she has posted and not by his/her name, Kulam and Gothram.

We always emphasize that one should reply to the post and not the person.

There are forums which ask you to jump through loops before admitting you as a member. But here we have no hidden agenda.

Ok fair enough.
 
Dear narayan,

Sorry to see you read a ‘fixation re poonal’ in me. I was only bringing this out, as an example. I could have used any other of our exclusive functions, and how some folks reconcile the dichotomy between their supposed part time orthodoxy, with an urge to preach to others. Frankly, I find this more in our females than the gents.

if you read carefully, I am not really into the poonal function as such. For that is a matter between parents and son, and whatever else they want to make of it.

I was only addressing the hypocracy part of it, as it pertained to me – ie asking, sometimes forcefully, as to why I did not poonal my sons. I have also stated the reasons there. one more I might have missed out – ie opportunity to feast at my cost.

When I have no poonal, how can I go and put one for my sons? Whereas I have seen folks who have no poonal, have an elaborate function for the same, and go to the level of lecturing me to do the same.

I really have no issue, what kind of tambram one is – weekend or otherwise. I have issues when they comment on my adherence to traditions, which I think, is none of their business.

I hope this clarifies my situation. And my argument.

Re other communities, and poonal: again it is their business. And I simply have no interest.

Nara can explain his stand himself.

hope this explains. thank you.
 
Dear Friends,

I was not inclined to make any further contribution, by way of post, especially after my statement here that I assure you, on my integrity, that I will not be making any post except in this thread, as and when necessary to continue our mutual discussion.

I have been visiting the forum once in a while, however, as a silent reader. This thread came to my notice (only) today. After reading Shri Subbudu's OP and the various further contributions from many able members, I thought I will be excused if I break my aforesaid promise and write a few lines on what I feel Tabras and hypocrisy. For those who felt much relieved at my exit and even openly wrote about it, I say that my posts may be only very few rare like the Blue Moon.

Tabras just like most human beings have varying degrees of hypocrisy, and it is impossible to live without this skill, IMO. But here, in this forum, I feel we are mostly concerned with the brahmanic hypocrisy, i.e., the double standards shown by many tabras in preaching one type of Brahmanic way of life in the posts made here and the actual implementation of these ways in their real life. To me it seems that this hypocrisy is due to the fact that almost all tabras today have lost all validity and legitimacy to call themselves as Brahmanas but since the caste tag attaches to them forcefully, especially when it gives undesirable results such as in reservation of seats and jobs, there is a sort of intense conflict in the minds of the tabras; much as they may prefer changing their caste label to some SC, ST or OBC caste, since that is not legally possible, there is a natural tendency to adopt whatever is suitable for their material well-being at the realistic day-to-day (lower reality as denoted in the thread on "Flaws of Advaitha") life, but emotionally make up for this by preaching Brahmanic virtues. It will be observed that much has been discussed only about "poonal", sandhyavandanam and Gayatree in this forum and, to the uninitiated, it will give a picture as though these three items will make one become a 100% Brahmana. In reality however we have ceased to be Brahmanas for at least 6 or 7 generations. (My maternal grandmother once told me that her father-in-law's father used to do Oupaasanam regularly but after him no one did that.) Still we are unable to shake off this now-disadvantageous caste tag. Hence the aforesaid double strategy (love-hate) which is tantamount to discarding Brahmanism at the individual level but showing off such devalued and unfollowed Brahmanism before everyone else, so that this increases the pressure on others to do the same "devalue in private-extol in public" towards Brahmanism with more and more vigour. Psychologically perhaps this "praise the garbaged Brahmanism" attitude gives vicarious satisfaction of having given this unwelcome Brahman tag, the treatment that it deserves. I am reminded of the usual introductory sentence of many members to the effect "I am proud to be a brahmin."

I am very well aware that there will be very strong reactions to this post because truth is not always palatable. While such responses may come, I do not propose to answer or defend my view/s.
 
Dear narayan,

Sorry to see you read a ‘fixation re poonal’ in me. .

Dear Sri Kunjuppu,

I am sorry if my post gave the impression that i read a "fixation re poonal" in you. I did not mean it and your message makes it amply clear that you do not have such fixation.

My observation was a general one having perused a few threads in this forum. As far as I am concerned, it is just one of the 16 sanskaras and may be we are over focussing on the poonal issue.

Regards,

narayan
 
hi all,
more than a year....i was a silent reader.....in reality, the ******* born with hypocrate and die with hypocratic....hypocracy is our birth

right....believe it or not....like it or not....its reality...but we never accept in public....including me ...no doubt....

regards
tbs
 
...
The type of TB Sri Kunjuppu describes in his message is not even going to be a weekend or wannabe TB, so how the thread ceremony can pour poison in his ears etc. I am unable to fathom.
Dear narayan, the willfully orthodox take the trouble of making this poonal mean something to the boys, but for the weekend Bs, it is a mere symbol of separateness and superiority, and nothing else. They may not even know what Brhmma mudicchu is and in which direction it must be pointing, something one would consider very basic and does not require any great effort to come to know. This clearly shows there is no other purpose to this poonal than the feeling of separateness and superiority, which is what I referred to as "poison".

Regarding persuading others also to take it up, why must others also engage in this superstition?

Cheers!
 
Isn't talking about brahmins and Sudras

and feeling one up / or one down

in 21st Century in itself a hypocrisy?

Whoever wants attention will draw

attention to his 'departure'

for doing 'productive' work ...in what ???

If a person can't survive for 2 months in the forum

take it from me NOBODY is going to miss him/her.

I may sound rude but this tamaasha itself is

a big hypocrisy! I am sure all the youngsters

as well some of the oldies are having a hearty chuckle

at this transfer of knowledge and values!!!


 
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Dear Friends,

I was not inclined to make any further contribution, by way of post, especially after my statement here that I assure you, on my integrity, that I will not be making any post except in this thread, as and when necessary to continue our mutual discussion.

I have been visiting the forum once in a while, however, as a silent reader. This thread came to my notice (only) today. After reading Shri Subbudu's OP and the various further contributions from many able members, I thought I will be excused if I break my aforesaid promise and write a few lines .................... For those who felt much relieved at my exit and even openly wrote about it, I say that my posts may be only very few rare like the Blue Moon...


Sri Sangom,

Happy that you are back in the forum......You need not be apologetic in re-entry... in fact it is welcome to many members..... Let me quote you and give my view (in blue).


......."Tabras just like most human beings have varying degrees of hypocrisy, and it is impossible to live without this skill, IMO. But here, in this forum, I feel we are mostly concerned with the brahmanic hypocrisy, i.e., the double standards shown by many tabras in preaching one type of Brahmanic way of life in the posts made here and the actual implementation of these ways in their real life. To me it seems that this hypocrisy is due to the fact ......................................................................................"


Sir, how shall I take this ? Are you sympathising with the hypocracy being an inevitable psychological self-deception OR you are criticising the hypocracy? I for one , accept the hypocracy as human weakness .....and consider excusable as far as it remains harmless and to personal show level...

...."I am very well aware that there will be very strong reactions to this post because truth is not always palatable. "

I feel this is an overstatement....
..."
While such responses may
come, I do not propose to answer or defend my view/s..."

While keeping mum is personal choice, it will be nicer to be responding - or just expressing view points.It will make the forum more participative.
At least every member is concerned to keep alive the site and forum, whether his /he view is on command or not,- the basic concern to keep the forum float is genuine. It needs participation. Hence be around here and be contributing as usual earlier...


Greetings.

 
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