History of Tamil Brahmins

[happyhindu]

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Dear friends,
I like to inform that brahmins migration and immigration from here and there is going to fall in the hands off people who call us migrated from central asia or some other place. Again and again our people are happy(more our people start this dialog) to be called as aryan and come form other places apart from mother india and tamil nadu. our mother tongue is TAMIL and mother land is INDIA then why this topic(aryan and migration) is coming again and again that too from our people.

Dear Whisper-ji,

Everbody has to come from somewhere. The term indigenous might simply mean the most 'ancient'.

Unfortunately, things that we would normally love to know as fascinating stories of people, cultures and movement, has become tinged with the current erroneous political thought.

As mentioned earlier, all these things are of subjective interest. It just does not matter who came from where.

India is motherland to everyone.

Please be assured that such stories are indeed just fascinating tales to some people, and they in no way erode association or cause dissociation with language, culture or country to anyone in anyway.

Moreover, i personally feel all this crazy political thought of divisiveness based on languages, cultures, class groupings, etc, will see the end of its day in my own lifetime.

Regards.

 

[whisper]

Dear happyhindu,
I dont understand that what you mean by Everbody has to come somewhere? We are not coming from somewhere but from tamilnadu even all my relatives also comes from tamilnadu.So now the tamil brahmins can be called as ancient?

But i want to quote that brahmins themself likes to tell we come from somewhere from central asia and not from our own village because they feel that name village is bad for their prestige.

 

[happyhindu]

Dear Whisper-ji,

Everybody has to come from somewhere means they have to have had originated somewhere.

Don't all water bodies come from the ocean and get lost in earth, but yet find their way back, seen or unseen, to the ocean?

No i don't think anyone considers his or her own village as bad for any prestige. We all love our childhood memories, friends, the crazy things we did in each place, etc..

If suppose i say we lived here or there, does it mean i am denying my ancestral village origin? It just means i acknowledge both and all places where my folks lived.

Yes ofcourse, all tamil brahmins can be called as ancient because all humans are derived from that ancient 'ancientness' (meaning from those same survivor souls from which the entire human race descended).

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

whisper,

One cannnot have written proof for everything; it might be true in the case of silverfox that his ancestors might really have worked in the Kasi king's court...

Again, the reference "kaasiyar" may mean many things depending on its usage and time.

There is nothing wrong in tracing one's roots, and nothing to hide too...

As per scientific view, Africa is supposed to be the cradle of mankind (personally, I dont believe so)!!

What if some or all of the brahmins have indeed migrated from the north? People like to assign a logic to every happening, and hence even a "whisper" of the brahmin is coloured differently. All these are just political games and would continue so long as we remain contented with being lone players.

Anyway, I dont think that anybody expressed feelings of pride on this forum for having migrated (though, they would have been excited by the findings) into Tamil Nadu.

We are tamilians.

Regards,
Seshadri

 

[happyhindu]

whisper-ji,

let me put it this way:

anyone who migrated to the current tamil speaking lands at any point of time is a tamilian.

a big chunk of my folks came into tamilnad recently, but they consider themselves tamil..hope they are accepted as tamil...i hope i am accepted as tamil....that however does not mean i stop loving other languages and cultures, ofcourse will associate with them and love them all...

people have always travelled from kasi to rameshwaram and vice versa.

we depend a lot on the oral tradition. infact that is the reason why grandparents tell stories to grandchildren...so that the tales are carried on..

let me share this with you openly:

my paternal grandfather used to say in whispers that they were the shepherd class once, but after they switched over to trading in gem stones, they found it so embarassing to associate their former class anymore, so they moved away from the south kanara regions, preferred to give themselves fancy titles and associate with the rest of the merchant class...my paternal grandfather used to go to former burma to trade (methinks some of his folk must have certainly left some of their nishaani there i mean merchants living away from wife for sooo long, it is expected, ain't it? moreover, my paternal granddad himself was born from a 2nd wife (the 1st wife died very young)....so, in what way should i pretend any localization of origin-does it mean i shd deny that we lived in south kanara regions once upon a time and claim to be associated only with villages in tamilnadu? no way...this is in contrast with a part of my mum's side family who have absolutely no qualms in saying they were cowherds once (god knows where)...well, each one to his own ideas of what constitues what...if you yourself consider yourself a tamilian why allow anyone else to define it for you..it just does not really matter who came from where...

you are a tamil ofcourse...i think a tambram is lucky for he has the best of both worlds - tamil and sanskrit - so if you have it in you, celebrate it...why deny it..cheers

 

[silverfox]

Dear Whisper:
I apologize if I had given an impression of what you have written; I am terribly sorry for the misunderstanding; in my enthusiasm to share my childhood, I completely missed the central point of what you were saying.
Ok, let me explain: We are TAMIL brahmins and I am sure my great great grandfather went to Kasi to be employed in the King's court and then decided to come back. No, I cannot provide any proof except what I was told by my grandparents, older brother, aunts and uncles. I was too young to remember the specifics. When I referred to my grandparents speaking in smattering Hindi, it was not to point out that we were Hindi-speaking people but just to share my childhood. You are absolutely right; my family was referred to as 'kasiyar veedu' (as well as others with names of village, place, or profession) as a reference point; I didn't mean to infer anything other than that.
I DO NOT BELIEVE in Aryan theory; based on what I have read, the Aryans were from India and they were NOT a different RACE. My mother-tongue is TAMIL and I am very proud of it; look at the bottom of all my postings. I also believe that ALL Indians (right from Punjab to Kanyakumari; Gujarat to Bengal) are a complete mixture (varying degree) of Aryan-Dravidian ethnic group.
I better be careful when I reminisce about my childhood in public!!!

Dear friends,
I like to inform that brahmins migration and immigration from here and there is going to fall in the hands off people who call us migrated from central asia or some other place. Again and again our people are happy(more our people start this dialog) to be called as aryan and come form other places apart from mother india and tamil nadu. our mother tongue is TAMIL and mother land is INDIA then why this topic(aryan and migration) is coming again and again that too from our people.


In my village there are people called kasiyaar and one mysoreiyaar and trichyiyaar. This kasiyaar is called because his greatgrandfather went to kasi for first time in our village in that time. And mysoreiyaar worked there for first time in our village in that time. As for the trichyiyaar his great grand father brings ganesh idol from trichy to bulit a temple. In each village some might have that type off name to be easy identitifcation(because we have so many krishnamurthys and balasuramins and other names in that time). even some had a name by their job attch to their name (like vathiyar balu). May be so many balu's in their village.

But if your family worked in kasi king court I am happy about it.But you should bring it with some other proof( like any kasi king order) And may i asked you what's your mother tongue is? If its is hindi its ok you may come from north if not what are you going to say? I am not against anyone but tell me if your mother tongue is tamil how your migration happen? Or your are going to say that over period of time people changed their mother tongue to tamil?

 

[happyhindu]

As per scientistific view, Africa is supposed to be the cradle of mankind (personally, I dont believe so)!!

maybe africa was cradle of origin but there have been many cradles of civilization..:juggle: now there is a big group that thinks india was cradle of origin...

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

happyhindu,

Assumptions and presumptions galore in this myriad network of human evolution... and naturally perceptions differ!

The scientific data available today may be refuted by another piece of evidence in future... Science is based on factual findings backed up by premises and logic (which is a product of human mind).

Therefore I would not be surprised by any theory that have sprung or will spring up in future regarding this topic of "evolution".

Regards,
Seshadri

 

[whisper]

Dear silverfox,
I do apologize if my postings hurt you or your family. I dont want to hurt any one. But i can see brahmins liked to talked abt aryan theory. Even when other community people dont talk abt it.

If its in our own brahmins community we like to talk abt mirgration, subsects or iyer/iyengar/madhva and gotram or abt subcastes. And who is superior in between them.
We are all one people one community no one is superior or less superior. Please my friends if you want to improve your debateing skills lets forget this superior theory even for academic reasons. WE have so many other topics to debate.

 

[whisper]

Some people may say that its nothing wrong or to hide abt this aryan and mirgration theory. If we talk abt all this theory i think we fall in trap which some people want our community to be called outsiders of india or tamil nadu. Please think abt our community before we debate this.

 

[happyhindu]

whisper-ji,

1) the vedic civilization is tooooo ancient.

2) there have been several waves of people moving in every direction in the sub-continent.

3) there is a continuum from the previous tribal structure into the current 'caste' structure, and it was very fluid. It wud have remaind fluid in some form or the other, if not for the british, who introduced the 'system' to us.

4) there really is nothing wrong or nothing to hide abt this aryan and mirgration theory, because there was no invasion.

5) my current understanding leads me to believe that the "aryan" structure was too ancient to be linked to any specific present-day castes at all in the first place.

6) there are geneologists who beleive that the tamil population in the least dravidian of all indian groupings it wud be interesting, if it were true :laugh:

And please, there is no trap. A tambram is called a tamilian by every other indian. Everyone knows how screwed up this "dravidian" politics is.

Only politically motivated people use the terms 'outsider of india or tamil nadu'. In retaliation, sometimes other are forced to use such counter stuff as well. But, at the end of the day, what matters is that WE are all INDIAN. You are very much an INDIAN and a TAMILIAN and a BRAHMIN.
Please leave your insecurites aside. Thankyou.

 

[whisper]

Dear Happyhindu,
If peole are not sure abt the aryan and mirgration theory then what is the point to talk abt again and again? Let them finish the work then we can debate.
And at present in tamil nadu dravidian politics is strong. No other political group is strong at present.Here i am teleing that we are falling into the trap set up by them.If you know in tamil nadu brahmins go through all type of insults, And i went through all type of insults. please my friends think abt the next generation before you like to debate.

 

[whisper]

Still people are debateing who is aryan? Then you people want to jump init? This is what i am telling that brahmins like to start this aryan or mirgation theory. And if other people start the aryan or mirgration theory our community people also fuel the fire.

 

[pannvalan]

As I understand History, the western historians couldn't digest the fact that Indians
were far superior in mathematics, astronomy, physics (incl. nuclear physics and quantum mechanics), surgery, both gurukul (one to one) education and university type of education systems, algebra and analytical geometry. Therefore, they invented this aryan-dravidian myth which became a convenient tool in their hands, only to undermine the great Indian psyche and claim credit for all the best things that have evolved in this world. So, they propounded this theory of aryans migrating from central Europe to India thro' Kaiber and Polan passes in the Afghanistan. That is why
Germans saw some commonality between them and us and were fond of working with us on some common issues. Even the English dictionaries describe Sanskrit as an Indo-Aryan language ('Aryan' meaning originated from central Europe).

This has been continuously rejected by great scholars of this country but, who listened? Our own 'so called elites' did not listen.

But, nowadays this Aryan theory is an outdated one and has been rejected by westerners themselves. Thus, they have indirectly recognised the supremacy of Indian Psyche!

Coming to brahmins, they are there everywhere in India, speaking different languages, through different ages. When Adi Sankara was born, there was no language called 'Malayalam'. Yet, the Malayalis claim that Adi Sankara was from Kerala (geographical
area). My point is, great people have contributed to the cultural and spiritual wealth and intelligence of this entire nation and such 'Mahaans' shall not be labelled as speaking such and such language, having lived in such and such area etc. They belong to each one of us, rightfully.

Let us not dig too deep so as to uproot our cultural moorings and promote divisive tendencies. Can any one tell their ancestors' names and identities, say a 100 years ago correctly? Let us talk about the present and learn to live harmoniously.