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Hinduism - Is not a religion, Way of Life. Whats it?

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pvraman

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Work of Votaire, Vol III. Page 115. Angels of Indians Percians etc...

He mentions, "Shastha" a Hindu scripture much older to vedas. (about 3000 years older than veda.

He mentions that the Shastha contains 5 Chapters and has given the extract.

First Chapter Of The Shastah.
God is one; He has created all; it is a perfect sphere, without beginning or end. God conducts the whole creation by a general providence, resulting from a determined principle. Thou shalt not seek to discover the nature and essence of the Eternal, nor by
what laws He governs; such an undertaking would be vain and criminal. It is enough for thee to contemplate day and night in His works, His wisdom, His power, and His goodness.

After paying to this opening of the Shastah the tribute of admiration which is due to it, let us pass to the creation of the angels.

Second Chapter Of The Shastah.
The Eternal, absorbed in the contemplation of His own existence, resolved, in the fulness of time, to communicate His glory and His essence to beings capable of feeling and partaking His beatitude as well as of contributing to His glory. The Eternal willed it, and they were. He formed them partly of His own essence, capable of perfection or imperfection, according to their will

The Eternal first created Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva, then Mozazor, and all the multitude of the angels. The Eternal gave the pre-eminence to Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva. Brahma was the prince of the angelic army; Vishnu and Siva were His coadjutors. The Eternal divided the angelic army into several bands, and gave to each a chief. They adored the Eternal, ranged around His throne, each in the degree assigned him. There was harmony in heaven. Mozazor, chief of the first band, led the canticle of praise and adoration to the Creator, and the song of obedience to Brahma, his first creature; and the Eternal rejoiced in His new creation.

Chapter III.—The Fall Of A Part Of The Angels.

From the creation of the celestial army, joy and harmony surrounded the throne of the Eternal for a thousand years multiplied by a thousand, and would have lasted until the end of time had not envy seized Mozazor and other princes of the angelic bands, among whom was Raabon, the next in dignity to Mozazor. Forgetful of the blessing of their creation, and of their duty, they rejected the power of perfection, and exercised the power of imperfection.

They did evil in the sight of the Eternal; they disobeyed Him; they refused to submit to God’s lieutenant and his coadjutors Vishnu and Siva, saying: “We will govern,” and, without fearing the power and the anger of their Creator, disseminated their seditious principles in the celestial army. They seduced the angels, and persuaded a great multitude of them to rebel; and they forsook the throne of the Eternal; and sorrow came upon the faithful angelic spirits; and for the first time grief was known in heaven.

Chapter IV.—Punishment Of The Guilty Angels.

The Eternal, whose omniscience, prescience, and influence extend over all things except the action of the beings whom He has created free, beheld with grief and anger the defection of Mozazor, Raabon, and the other chiefs of the angels.

Merciful in his wrath, he sent Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva to reproach them with their crime, and bring them back to their duty; but, confirmed in their spirit of independence, they persisted in their revolt. The Eternal then commanded Siva to march against them, armed with almighty power, and hurl them down from the high place to the place of darkness, into the Ondera, there to be punished for a thousand years multiplied by a thousand.

Abstract Of The Fifth Chapter.

At the end of a thousand years Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva implored the clemency of the Eternal in favor of the delinquents. The Eternal vouchsafed to deliver them from the prison of the Ondera, and place them in a state of probation during a great number of solar revolutions. There were other rebellions against God during this time of penitence.

It was at one of these periods that God created the earth, where the penitent angels underwent several metempsychoses, one of the last of which was their transformation into cows. Hence it was that cows became sacred in India. Lastly, they were metamorphosed into men

So that the Indian system of angels is precisely that of the Jesuit Bougeant, who asserts that the bodies of beasts are inhabited by sinful angels. What the Brahmins had invented seriously, Bougeant, more than four thousand years after, imagined in jest—if, indeed, this pleasantry of his was not a remnant of superstition, combined with the spirit of system-making, as is often the case.

Such is the history of the angels among the ancient Brahmins, which, after the lapse of about fifty centuries, they still continue to teach. Neither our merchants who have traded in India, nor our missionaries, have ever been informed of it; for the Brahmins, having never been edified by their science or their manners, have not communicated to them their secrets. It was left for an Englishman, named Holwell, to reside for thirty years at Benares, on the Ganges, an ancient school of the Brahmins, to learn the ancient Sanscrit tongue, in order at length to enrich our Europe with this singular knowledge; just as Mr. Sale lived a long time in Arabia to give us a faithful translation of the Koran and information relative to ancient Sabaism, which has been succeeded by the Mussulman religion; and as Dr. Hyde continued for twenty years his researches into everything concerning the religion of the Magi.

What is Shastah?

Thanks
 

renuka

Well-known member
dear PVRaman ji,

hinduism ---- hindu
india----- indian
indonesia---- indonesian
america------- american
britain ---- british
sanathana dharma--- sanathana dharmist

just joking .
 
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pvraman

Active member
dear PVRaman ji,

hinduism ---- hindu
india----- indian
indonesia---- indonesian
america------- american
britain ---- british
sanathana dharma--- sanathana dharmist

just joking .

Dear Renuka Ji,


:frusty: :lol:


Too much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.:) It sounds like Dentist.....:yield:

Ha ha ha ...

Cheers
 
BTW, when was the first translation of vedas from palm leaves to paper started. How they managed to collect those palm leaves was it in one place or scattered.

Any reference, anybody can provide?

Thanks

They were scattered.

Libraries in places like Nalanda were plundered and set afire by the Muslims. I saw a documentary on TV where it was shown that Buddhists sent away their palm leaves (treasure troves of knowledge) to China, Cambodia and Sri Lanka to save them from the muslims.

Even among the vedas, the only surving texts are only a handful. This is one of the reasons why i personally find the reasoning that 'dharmashastras are an extension of the vedas' as an error prone premise. Many reasons are given why the texts (and their practitioners) disappered over time (this was long before the muslim invasions). None, imho, are conclusive.

Infact we owe it to the british, who collected various palm leaves. The fact that today surviving manuscripts are available in libraries is also something we owe to the British. But even today, indians are very careless about their treasures.


Hindu is named by the Europeans, what they were called before? Hinduism is Sanadhana Dharma, but the people who practiced it?.

Anybody can inform?

Thanks

Am not sure there is anything called hindusim.

i remember Shri Nacchinarkiniyan ji's post where he mentioned hinduism as a parliament of religions. Truly, hindusim is an umbrella term for various belief systems.

Adi Shankara founded the Shanmata system. Prior to that, it is possible that many were individual groups, each with their own mode of worship, like shaktas, ganapatyas, shaivas, vaishnavas, devi worshippers, etc. Sometimes it is possible to view each of these as even religions unto themselves.

Regards.
 
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pvraman

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Dear Smt HH Ji

Many thanks.

They were scattered.

Libraries in places like Nalanda were plundered and set afire by the Muslims.
....
....
Many reasons are given why the texts (and their practitioners) disappered over time (this was long before the muslim invasions). None, imho, are conclusive.

Infact we owe it to the british, who collected various palm leaves. The fact that today surviving manuscripts are available in libraries is also something we owe to the British. But even today, indians are very careless about their treasures.

Regards.

Its interesting. Often, westerner like voltaire mention Hinduism as Brahminism. The palm leaves storage is an interesting subject. Even I read in some of the websites, many of the palm leaves were preserved in South India.

Its an interesting read.

Regards
 
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pvraman

Active member
Dear All,

When the Bali Hindus who are hindus from the olden times, have most of the temples without idols, (only name board is there - like shiva, vishnu), when we started to have vigrahas, what is the reason?

Is the idol worship supported in any of the vedas or Upanishads or BG?


Thanks
 

renuka

Well-known member
Dear All,
i am posting this question here because i dont want to start a new thread and let it be inactive after a while.

Before i post the question, I have to say this:

This question has been on my mind for a really long time.
By this question I do not ever mean to find fault with the method of prayer of most Hindus as I am a Hindu myself and believe in God.
Please dont get me wrong.

The question is : For how long do we Hindus have to prescribe to worship of God in the form of Murtis(idols) ?

this question is always on my mind whenever I am in a temple.
when we pray we mostly close our eyes and concentrate isnt it?
Dont get me wrong but i just want feedback.
after all most homas i have attended did not really employ the usage of an idol.

I understand that an idol is important for the mind to focus as there is no one in this world who can actually pray without at least a mental image of divinity.
Muslims concentrate on Kaabah when they pray too.


Can a Hindu be weaned off the usage of Idols?
is it wrong for me to think so?
I had attended many navaratri function in temples where the altar will be customarily decorated by various dolls some even just commercial dolls not depicting even forms of divinity.
I feel at least only idols of devas and devis should be used and not ordinary dolls.

Forgive me if my question has hurt sentiments but I really want feedback.

renuka
 
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anandb

Active member
My personal opinion there is something which is very sacred and divine about an idol especially in the temple. We almost humanize god here by seeing him or her in that form and for me it makes me relate to him/her immediately. To me the best part is the moolavar get dressed up after the abhishekam. You are waiting for the screen to be removed any time and have already visualized how he is going to look in a short time because you have seen him dressed up countless times. Still every time I am amazed when the screen is removed. To me it is an absolute divine experience almost like seeing god in person. Add to it the arathi, cymbals clashing and the huge temple bells ringing, I will have this experience any number of times.

I think another reason is with the huge number of people coming together with faith creates a positive energy field in the temple premises especially in the sanctum where this energy field is multiplied with all the abhishekams done continuously. There was a scientific study done a long time back proving the presence of vibrant energy fields in temples or for that matter any place of worship. On your question of closing ones eyes in the temple it is true but we mostly do that after seeing the idol even if it is for a second. A lot of times the moolavar sannidhi is dark or people are jostling to get a view so I just get a glance and then close my eyes to visualize the murti.

Even in homas there is a Ganapati pooja done with the manja pullaiyaar which is symbolic of a idol. In a homam the oblations are directly offered in fire and Agni acts as a conduit in taking these offerings to the deity in whose name the homa is performed.

I think more than anything the temples are an absolute necessity for the poor people who cannot afford to have a pooja room or do homams. Where else would they go to pray?
 

RVR

0
Dear All,

When the Bali Hindus who are hindus from the olden times, have most of the temples without idols, (only name board is there - like shiva, vishnu), when we started to have vigrahas, what is the reason?

Is the idol worship supported in any of the vedas or Upanishads or BG?


Thanks

Paramacharyal's explanations on உருவமும் அருவுருவமும் (Uruvamum Aruvamum) is worth reading. The idol worship is only to concentrate our mind and ultimately the idol disappears.

Tamil Content : kamakoti.org:

Details are available in the above link

All the best
 
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nachi naga

Guest
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Dear Sri Nachi Naga



Thanks Sir.

Sri Krishna in S.BG has said to attain moksha, thinking about him, chanting about him is one of the ways. Bakti Yoga.

Are all the Vedas are written by Brahmanas alone or any other varna contributed it?

Because I thought the vedas were preserved in kasi (varanasi) and copied by Brahmanas.

I am also interested to know, the Sanskrit language was in common use? which time? any information?

I have a question linked to this two.

Thanks.

Brahmana is one with all.The knower of Brahman.



Knowledge amongst intellectuals was freely given and taken.There was peace.



From the time of Matsya Avataram as per Vishnu Puranam.

From the time of Shiva Avataram as per Shiva Puranam.

From the time of Brahma as per Brahma Puranam.

They are time immemorial.

naga nachi
 
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pvraman

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Dear Shri RVR Ji,

We know, reading books is always better than watching TV or Cinema, because, when one reads, he can imagine the things to his own capacity. Similarly, IMHO, the original system of doing yagam with mantra vibrations will definitely enhance once devotion and help him to achieve the divine feelings without a physical form of God.

I do not know when the IDOL worship started. I never could see the benefit. As Smt Renuka Ji, Pointed out, even after spending so many hours in Tirupathi Queue (just an example) when we have the opportunity to stand in front of the idol, we tend to close the eyes automatically to imagine his swaroopam.

My views may not be acceptable to many. I am a person who very rarely visits temple because of the noise produced nowadays. Earlier days, a melodious song or chanting will be heard through the loud speakers. Along with the birds sound and wind, and a distinctive smell, going to koil was an excellent feeling. I always found much peace inside the compound of the temple rather than in the sannidhi.

My ideal Koil is, it should be calm even there are many people, and when the mantras are chanted with a rhytham, we get the concentration, oneness, and concentrate only on the mantras (if we can know), which would be like reading a book. To my little knowledge, if we make the god to have some form, the realization will be very hard. The big part of the koil, can be used much better as a education center and library along with chanting of vedas, making a divine experience.

[It may be because, i dont know sanskrit and the meaning of mantras which archagar chants to god, so there is a big gap between, me and the Swamy].

A big homa gundam or multiple homa gundams & chanting the sanskrit mantras or Tamil mantras (with one meaning) targeting the natural gods, at different places inside the koil, even one can choose to attend sanskrit or tamil chantings or both) I think it will be natural to bring all sections of the society into pure bakti, which is the main intention, and the question of favoritism in worship will be vanished. As the pure form of nature shall be worshiped people will realize the importance of preserving nature.

And the vendors who is making the koil surroundings, a hell will do some other jobs.


Cheers
 

renuka

Well-known member
Dear PVRaman ji,

Even I raely visit temples but it does feel nice to visit a quiet temple when few people are there.
i remember when i was a student while studying in India, i used to like to visit a particular Lord Shiva temple which was next to a waterfall.
I used to go there when hardly anyone was there and listen to the sound of the water and pray.
It felt close to nature.
That is why i prefer to pray while looking at an open sky it feels close to the Brihat aspect of God.
Nowadays temples are just a bit too busy and I find it hard to concentrate hence avoid crowded times.

But I have to admit one does feel a little positively charged after coming back from a temple.
renuka
 
To Renuka Karithikayanji, the Temple worship made only because to show the people how our body is there. Ullam perumkoil,unnudambu Aalayam ,vallalperranku vai gopuravasal,thallathliinthruku seevan Siva lingam,kalapulaniyenthum kannamanivilakai. This temples made by stoneand lime by the man, to worship the God is living with in you and the real worship is to go inside and pray. Ideal worships cannot give mukthi. s,r.k.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Dear esarkey ji,
i dont understand your last line.

ideal worships cannot give mukti.

you mean ideal or idol?

please clarify,
thanks renuka
 
To Renugaji, Sorry due to sudden shutdown of my unit I could not complet the word.
The word is like this Idol worship is not Ideal for humans and devi devaths.,because you connot get Mukthi. Only way to do deep Meditation and find the Nameless,colourless,God with in humanbody. s.r.k. ( Idol worship started only 1000 years back). s.r.k.
 
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nachi naga

Guest
re

To Renugaji, Sorry due to sudden shutdown of my unit I could not complet the word.
The word is like this Idol worship is not Ideal for humans and devi devaths.,because you connot get Mukthi. Only way to do deep Meditation and find the Nameless,colourless,God with in humanbody. s.r.k. ( Idol worship started only 1000 years back). s.r.k.

srk,

Using a vigraha,we attain the path to mukthi.Every aspirant knows this.But various other religions try to divide the hindus and less mature people by pointing this vigraha prana pratishtha as an impediment.There is not a single religion in this world,which does not use various props(like books,symbols,direction of praying to one direction only..etc) to teach enlightenment at an individual level.Nithyam Sharanam Gacchami.

nachi naga.
 
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pvraman

Active member
Dear Sri Nachi,

I read, lot of our saints (almost all) for enlightment, the common practice was doing "Thavam" and "Nishtai". The temples are built by Indian Kings when there was a neccessary to save from or differentiate from the introduction of other religion. I mean Budhism & Jainism. Before the introduction of those religions, do you think the vedic dharma recommended vigraha worship. I do not know. I ask this to educate myself. What is "Thavam" why it can not be practiced in these days?!

Thanks
 
Hinduism-Is not a religion,Way of life.What is it?

Sir,
I had recorded in another thread about an ancient saying(I Do not know the name of the author) informing us that there will be no need for "THAVAM" if you observe the following in your LIFE.
ANAITHU UYIR ONRU YENRU YENNU
ANNAIVARUKKUM PASIUI MATRU
MANATHILULLA BEDA BEDAM, Vanjanai, KALAVU, SOODHU,
SINATHAYUM THAVIRPAYAGIL
SEI THAVAM VERU ONRUM ILLAI.
B.Krishnamurthy
 
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pvraman

Active member
Dear Sir,
Sir,
I had recorded in another thread about an ancient saying(I Do not know the name of the author) informing us that there will be no need for "THAVAM" if you observe the following in your LIFE.
ANAITHU UYIR ONRU YENRU YENNU
ANNAIVARUKKUM PASIUI MATRU
MANATHILULLA BEDA BEDAM, Vanjanai, KALAVU, SOODHU,
SINATHAYUM THAVIRPAYAGIL
SEI THAVAM VERU ONRUM ILLAI.
B.Krishnamurthy

Wonderful principles one could hold. Thanks
 
N

nachi naga

Guest
re

Dear Sri Nachi,

I read, lot of our saints (almost all) for enlightment, the common practice was doing "Thavam" and "Nishtai". The temples are built by Indian Kings when there was a neccessary to save from or differentiate from the introduction of other religion. I mean Budhism & Jainism. Before the introduction of those religions, do you think the vedic dharma recommended vigraha worship. I do not know. I ask this to educate myself. What is "Thavam" why it can not be practiced in these days?!

Thanks

PVR,

Time and tide waits for none.Whatever should happen is happening.Whatever is going to happen is going to happen.Buddhaism is nir-ishwara vadam.Buddha preached not to even have a vigraha of him.Buddha did not preach to have sects like Mahayana or Hinayana or Zen...etc.To me Buddha left his role & responsibilities from his parents,wife,children,kingdom...so,when i cannot understand a enlightened master to some,it's prudent,that i remain silent.

Jainism,the tirthankara are 24 in my understanding.If i am wrong,i wish to be corrected.Both Jainism Buddhism,for that matter,all religions existing today,emanate from the concepts & practices of Bharat.The geography is questionable,but imo Bharat is entire bhu-lokam.ekam sath viprah bahu vadanthi,which is Sanathanam Dharmam source of teachings.

Resources of knowledge is plenty.We always can make a choice that which suits us and live accordingly,without harming oneself and others.


nachi naga.
 
Hinduism--Is not a religion, way of Life, What is it?

Dear ALL,
Sow.Renukaji has raised a question: For How long do we'Hindus' have to prescribe to worship of GOD in the form of MURTIS(idols)?. In my humble opinion as long as a particular individual feels necessary in his spiritual path. This is just like using a ladder or steps or Lifts to go up. Once you go up you do not need the aids which you had used earlier for coming up
B.Krishnamurthy.
 
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