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Disussion about vasu, Rudra and Aaditya roopa of our ancestors

Namaskaram to all the memebers in the thread and my humble request to all is, kindly clarify the below questions which is my long term un answered question.
In our pitru kaaryas, we refer to the deceased father as ‘Vasu roopa’, grandfather as ‘Rudra roopa’ and great grandfather as ‘Aaditya roopa’. What is the significance of these?
How long do the departed souls reside in the pitru loka before they return on rebirth?
When some one from the present generation leaves the earth apparently the departed soul becomes ‘Vasu’, his father becomes ‘Rudra’ and grandfather ‘Rudra’ becomes ‘Aaditya’ for the departed person’s son. What will happen to the great grandfather who was previously in the state of ‘Aaditya roopa’?
When a paternal uncle and nephew do these karmas the same departed soul ( grandfather of the nephew and father of the uncle) will be ‘Vasu roopa’ for the uncle and ‘Rudra roopa’ for the nephew. How the same soul can be in two forms at the same time?
 
Namaskaram to all the memebers in the thread and my humble request to all is, kindly clarify the below questions which is my long term un answered question.
In our pitru kaaryas, we refer to the deceased father as ‘Vasu roopa’, grandfather as ‘Rudra roopa’ and great grandfather as ‘Aaditya roopa’. What is the significance of these?
How long do the departed souls reside in the pitru loka before they return on rebirth?
When some one from the present generation leaves the earth apparently the departed soul becomes ‘Vasu’, his father becomes ‘Rudra’ and grandfather ‘Rudra’ becomes ‘Aaditya’ for the departed person’s son. What will happen to the great grandfather who was previously in the state of ‘Aaditya roopa’?
When a paternal uncle and nephew do these karmas the same departed soul ( grandfather of the nephew and father of the uncle) will be ‘Vasu roopa’ for the uncle and ‘Rudra roopa’ for the nephew. How the same soul can be in two forms at the same time?
hi

nice topic....i was thinking the same topic very long time....my best knowledge....there are 2 theories of

soul departure/rebirth....one based on UPANISHADS....2nd one based on GARUDA PURANAM....based

on upanishads...soul get another sariram immediately...even bhagavad gita says....VASAMSI

SARIRANI....IN 2ND CHAPTER GITA....so soul takes another physical body immediately....but puranas...


the soul travels to yamaloka ..then pitru loka.....then after one year....it takes another SARIRAM.... so even

sometimes very confused ....some scholars can explain much more in detail...even i studied

upanishad/bhagavad gita and GARUDA PURANAM TOO.....
 
hi

nice topic....i was thinking the same topic very long time....my best knowledge....there are 2 theories of

soul departure/rebirth....one based on UPANISHADS....2nd one based on GARUDA PURANAM....based

on upanishads...soul get another sariram immediately...even bhagavad gita says....VASAMSI

SARIRANI....IN 2ND CHAPTER GITA....so soul takes another physical body immediately....but puranas...


the soul travels to yamaloka ..then pitru loka.....then after one year....it takes another SARIRAM.... so even

sometimes very confused ....some scholars can explain much more in detail...even i studied

upanishad/bhagavad gita and GARUDA PURANAM TOO.....
Kindly anyone can clarify it as per the veda
 
Namaskaram to all the memebers in the thread and my humble request to all is, kindly clarify the below questions which is my long term un answered question.
In our pitru kaaryas, we refer to the deceased father as ‘Vasu roopa’, grandfather as ‘Rudra roopa’ and great grandfather as ‘Aaditya roopa’. What is the significance of these?
How long do the departed souls reside in the pitru loka before they return on rebirth?
When some one from the present generation leaves the earth apparently the departed soul becomes ‘Vasu’, his father becomes ‘Rudra’ and grandfather ‘Rudra’ becomes ‘Aaditya’ for the departed person’s son. What will happen to the great grandfather who was previously in the state of ‘Aaditya roopa’?
When a paternal uncle and nephew do these karmas the same departed soul ( grandfather of the nephew and father of the uncle) will be ‘Vasu roopa’ for the uncle and ‘Rudra roopa’ for the nephew. How the same soul can be in two forms at the same time?
We do not offer the food, sesame seeds, and water directly to our ancestors. We do it through the devathas/gods called as vasu, rudra, and aadithya. They transform what you offer in a meaningful way to the appropriate ancestor according to the place/state the ancestor is in. Eg: a ancestor in punya loka will have different needs than the ones who is in paapa loka/narakam. An ancestor who is born again will have quite a different need like food, shelter, clothes, etc.

In the situation you mentioned -what will happen t great grandfather after the current generation person is dead - the state will have to remain the same as aadithya will be handling things over to the grandfather now for the offerings by great grandson. The great grandfather will receive the benefits so long as at least one great grandson is alive and offers the tharpanam and shraddham.

Each person alive should therefore do all the duties so he can give the punya and benefit to his ancestors till he is alive. This is a great and easy way to help our ancestors attain moksha, too.

There is no fixed time limit for rebirth. It will be vary for each soul based on the karma and the results deserved.
 
Last edited:
Namaskaram to all the memebers in the thread and my humble request to all is, kindly clarify the below questions which is my long term un answered question.
In our pitru kaaryas, we refer to the deceased father as ‘Vasu roopa’, grandfather as ‘Rudra roopa’ and great grandfather as ‘Aaditya roopa’. What is the significance of these?
How long do the departed souls reside in the pitru loka before they return on rebirth?
When some one from the present generation leaves the earth apparently the departed soul becomes ‘Vasu’, his father becomes ‘Rudra’ and grandfather ‘Rudra’ becomes ‘Aaditya’ for the departed person’s son. What will happen to the great grandfather who was previously in the state of ‘Aaditya roopa’?
When a paternal uncle and nephew do these karmas the same departed soul ( grandfather of the nephew and father of the uncle) will be ‘Vasu roopa’ for the uncle and ‘Rudra roopa’ for the nephew. How the same soul can be in two forms at the same time?
Yes how it can be one soul in so many norms
 
Namaskaram to all the memebers in the thread and my humble request to all is, kindly clarify the below questions which is my long term un answered question.
In our pitru kaaryas, we refer to the deceased father as ‘Vasu roopa’, grandfather as ‘Rudra roopa’ and great grandfather as ‘Aaditya roopa’. What is the significance of these?
How long do the departed souls reside in the pitru loka before they return on rebirth?
When some one from the present generation leaves the earth apparently the departed soul becomes ‘Vasu’, his father becomes ‘Rudra’ and grandfather ‘Rudra’ becomes ‘Aaditya’ for the departed person’s son. What will happen to the great grandfather who was previously in the state of ‘Aaditya roopa’?
When a paternal uncle and nephew do these karmas the same departed soul ( grandfather of the nephew and father of the uncle) will be ‘Vasu roopa’ for the uncle and ‘Rudra roopa’ for the nephew. How the same soul can be in two forms at the same time?
father as ‘Vasu roopa’, grandfather as ‘Rudra roopa’ and great grandfather as ‘Aaditya roopa’.
We all of them knows we have 7 genaration but we follow only 3 in our ceremony father VASU ROOPA grand father RUDRA ROOPA grade grand father AADITYA ROOPA
4TH ONE Prbi Tha Maga Saya Pithu
5th one prbi the maga saya pitha maga
6 th one prib the maga saya prib the maga
7th one pithu prib the maga saya prib the maga
But this mandar we can say in ceremonies but our sol travel in This roopa it's takes many years there is a one more ceremony is there i don't know who are all know this after 7 th generation we need to brack the pot 🍯 that is 8 generation no roopa know one knows this but today genaration know one is live more than 100 year's but in My family this We have come across my grand father told me still i remember because i have a family tree 🌴 in this my grand father and My father now i am doing this...
So getting a other roopa it's takes many years...
 
father as ‘Vasu roopa’, grandfather as ‘Rudra roopa’ and great grandfather as ‘Aaditya roopa’.
We all of them knows we have 7 genaration but we follow only 3 in our ceremony father VASU ROOPA grand father RUDRA ROOPA grade grand father AADITYA ROOPA
4TH ONE Prbi Tha Maga Saya Pithu
5th one prbi the maga saya pitha maga
6 th one prib the maga saya prib the maga
7th one pithu prib the maga saya prib the maga
But this mandar we can say in ceremonies but our sol travel in This roopa it's takes many years there is a one more ceremony is there i don't know who are all know this after 7 th generation we need to brack the pot 🍯 that is 8 generation no roopa know one knows this but today genaration know one is live more than 100 year's but in My family this We have come across my grand father told me still i remember because i have a family tree 🌴 in this my grand father and My father now i am doing this...
So getting a other roopa it's takes many years...

Namaskaram to all the memebers in the thread and my humble request to all is, kindly clarify the below questions which is my long term un answered question.
In our pitru kaaryas, we refer to the deceased father as ‘Vasu roopa’, grandfather as ‘Rudra roopa’ and great grandfather as ‘Aaditya roopa’. What is the significance of these?
How long do the departed souls reside in the pitru loka before they return on rebirth?
When some one from the present generation leaves the earth apparently the departed soul becomes ‘Vasu’, his father becomes ‘Rudra’ and grandfather ‘Rudra’ becomes ‘Aaditya’ for the departed person’s son. What will happen to the great grandfather who was previously in the state of ‘Aaditya roopa’?
When a paternal uncle and nephew do these karmas the same departed soul ( grandfather of the nephew and father of the uncle) will be ‘Vasu roopa’ for the uncle and ‘Rudra roopa’ for the nephew. How the same soul can be in two forms at the same time?
Hari Om Gomathishankar Ji
Greetings!
The term "Vasu Rupa" has to be interpreted differently in this context. It is Pitru Rupa vasu , Pitamaha Rupa Rudra and Prapitamah Rupa Aditya. In otehr words we are offering the Tharpana not to ancestors in their mortal forms but to the essential nature as the all-pervading divinity which is holding this Jagat together as Vasu-Rudra & Aditya. This way each one who offering shrarda Tharpana is remembering the Ultimate source of our existence. In the last sateg when the kurcham is dismantled - we give final Tharpana with the mantras where we say "all these are manifested only for my utshristi" - they are the cause for my existence.
 
Namaskaram to all the memebers in the thread and my humble request to all is, kindly clarify the below questions which is my long term un answered question.
In our pitru kaaryas, we refer to the deceased father as ‘Vasu roopa’, grandfather as ‘Rudra roopa’ and great grandfather as ‘Aaditya roopa’. What is the significance of these?
How long do the departed souls reside in the pitru loka before they return on rebirth?
When some one from the present generation leaves the earth apparently the departed soul becomes ‘Vasu’, his father becomes ‘Rudra’ and grandfather ‘Rudra’ becomes ‘Aaditya’ for the departed person’s son. What will happen to the great grandfather who was previously in the state of ‘Aaditya roopa’?
When a paternal uncle and nephew do these karmas the same departed soul ( grandfather of the nephew and father of the uncle) will be ‘Vasu roopa’ for the uncle and ‘Rudra roopa’ for the nephew. How the same soul can be in two forms at the same time?
Hari Om Gomathishankar ji
Greetings
The terms Vasu,Rudra and Aditya are not be taken as Vasu Rupa or Rudra Rupa or Aditya Rupa but Pitru-rupa Vasu, Ppitamag Rupa Rudra and Prapitamaha Rupa Aditya. Those 3 universal deities have alone taken the form of Pitr,Pitamah and Prapitamah so that my existence comes to be.
In the end we will dismantle the Kurcham ( grass pratika) and offer final tharpanam by saying "they are all there for the same of my Utshrishti" i.e. my manifestation.
This way there is no conflict in who is offering to whom nephew or uncle. It all goes to these three Devata only.
 
hi

nice topic....i was thinking the same topic very long time....my best knowledge....there are 2 theories of

soul departure/rebirth....one based on UPANISHADS....2nd one based on GARUDA PURANAM....based

on upanishads...soul get another sariram immediately...even bhagavad gita says....VASAMSI

SARIRANI....IN 2ND CHAPTER GITA....so soul takes another physical body immediately....but puranas...


the soul travels to yamaloka ..then pitru loka.....then after one year....it takes another SARIRAM.... so even

sometimes very confused ....some scholars can explain much more in detail...even i studied

upanishad/bhagavad gita and GARUDA PURANAM TOO.....
There is no need to reconcile these.
Puranas have been created over many millennia. Some are very recent. Legitimate puranas are those that have deep significance to the truth taught in Gita and Upanishad. When the significance is lost, it is just imaginations parading as a scripture. The first part of Garuda Purana has some vedantic content,

The second part is purely fantasy and my guess without proof is that it is motivated by view of hell etc from biblical religions. It is not supported by any upanishads. No one died and came back to tell what happened except in superstitions.

Today Hindu practices have become corrupted by superstitions and fear. This corruptions has happened over several hundred years. You have to decide if you want to continue these beliefs.

Now what I say is not for the believers because logic and beliefs do not mix.

If you want to listen to reason and logic supported by teaching scriptures please read on

Purpose of Shraddham is NOT to offer some water and food to departed ancestors. That is a gross distortion. The purpose is to do the act only for the doer's mental purification. Why ? Because we have to thank the ancestors for their sacrifices that enabled this human birth, One upanishad says Matru devo bhava etc. So while parents live, treat them with respect and love

After their death observe at least one day by fasting , doing charity work by feeding poor people or doing the ritual. The ritual is enactments of asking the Pitrus to come to your home, give them food and seek blessings. This play act is your way of showing your love and respect.

If you do not do them the Pitrus will not suffer. You cannot eat food for another. That is all in the domain of unreasonable beliefs driven by Puranic story with no basis in upansihads,

So do this in the best way with sincerity as a Naimitthika karma - a duty with no expectations of any result. Your mind will be purified and that is an indirect benefit.

If you dont have priest to tell you the date, it is fine, Observe on the Fathers day or Mother's day which is always a sunday,

The swarupa of Pitrus is just to realize they are one with God. The distinctions are traditions and some made up smruthis that have no real basis.
 
தஞ்சாவூர் ஸரஸ்வதி மஹால் சரபோஜி மன்னர் காலத்து புத்தகம்.
 

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hi

nice topic....i was thinking the same topic very long time....my best knowledge....there are 2 theories of

soul departure/rebirth....one based on UPANISHADS....2nd one based on GARUDA PURANAM....based

on upanishads...soul get another sariram immediately...even bhagavad gita says....VASAMSI

SARIRANI....IN 2ND CHAPTER GITA....so soul takes another physical body immediately....but puranas...


the soul travels to yamaloka ..then pitru loka.....then after one year....it takes another SARIRAM.... so even

sometimes very confused ....some scholars can explain much more in detail...even i studied

upanishad/bhagavad gita and GARUDA PURANAM TOO.....

Vasamsi sariraani simply means the soul it takes multiple births leaving the existing body/bodies. Birth and hell/heaven are not contrasting or a mutually exclusive events. It is rather sequential. A few of the punya and paapa can be reciprocated better with a body, a few are better suited to have a karma reciprocation while we are not having a body and this kind of society. There is no reference of an immediate birth for every soul. It will vary according to karma and the situations created to experience the reward/punishment as a part of the karma.
 
There is no need to reconcile these.
Puranas have been created over many millennia. Some are very recent. Legitimate puranas are those that have deep significance to the truth taught in Gita and Upanishad. When the significance is lost, it is just imaginations parading as a scripture. The first part of Garuda Purana has some vedantic content,

The second part is purely fantasy and my guess without proof is that it is motivated by view of hell etc from biblical religions. It is not supported by any upanishads. No one died and came back to tell what happened except in superstitions.

Today Hindu practices have become corrupted by superstitions and fear. This corruptions has happened over several hundred years. You have to decide if you want to continue these beliefs.

Now what I say is not for the believers because logic and beliefs do not mix.

If you want to listen to reason and logic supported by teaching scriptures please read on

Purpose of Shraddham is NOT to offer some water and food to departed ancestors. That is a gross distortion. The purpose is to do the act only for the doer's mental purification. Why ? Because we have to thank the ancestors for their sacrifices that enabled this human birth, One upanishad says Matru devo bhava etc. So while parents live, treat them with respect and love

After their death observe at least one day by fasting , doing charity work by feeding poor people or doing the ritual. The ritual is enactments of asking the Pitrus to come to your home, give them food and seek blessings. This play act is your way of showing your love and respect.

If you do not do them the Pitrus will not suffer. You cannot eat food for another. That is all in the domain of unreasonable beliefs driven by Puranic story with no basis in upansihads,

So do this in the best way with sincerity as a Naimitthika karma - a duty with no expectations of any result. Your mind will be purified and that is an indirect benefit.

If you dont have priest to tell you the date, it is fine, Observe on the Fathers day or Mother's day which is always a sunday,

The swarupa of Pitrus is just to realize they are one with God. The distinctions are traditions and some made up smruthis that have no real basis.

My first-hand experience is a bit different on this, especially the dhevasam being beyond the 'mental purification' part. The mental purification is only a by-product. It is not just to show love and respect. When trying to understand the veda mantras, it is very clear that the dhevasam/thithi is not only about offering food and water, and certainly not for the departed ancestors as a ritual. There is no one-day fasting for anyone on that day, right? We do take food.

The actual recommendation of shrardha for around 100 days per year to include all the so called 'tharppana dhinangal' of amavasyai, grahanam, (Tamil) month start date, and so on. Smruthis give an exemption to at least do the thila tharppanam. Had this been just for satisfaction and mental purification, it will have been stopped just with once a year or utmost once a month, will it not?

Another thing to take in to account is vedas and upanishads might not detail each and everything and for that, we can look up in shaasthras, smritis, etc., or even what the elders have guided us to. Is going to temple or building temples detailed in upanishads? Is using cellphone according to upanishads? Does upanishad mention anything about living in apartments or building apartments? We still embrace those as techniques and technologies and further discoveries/innovations. I feel it is the same for things that vedas or upanishads don't take about in detail. We do chant in chamakam: "Pitharo garbama dhaadhoo:" - meaning, the pithrus standing and facing the humans become patient. This is evidence pitrus are there with us, always and need not be invited just on the occasion of thithi for being fed. There is more to it and certainly no external religious influence played a part here.

There is enough research done (plus ongoing) and materials published about what happens after death within and outside India by various mediums and researchers. I also therefore do not feel these are all made up without a real basis.
 

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