Can you place Amman's garland at your home pooja photos?

[a-TB]

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Private chat room was not what was envisaged. The a-TB does not know what was going on between you and me about the antiquity of Vaishnavam. That was what was meant when I said it is an issue between you and me.

I said I am working with a paper torn like a jig saw puzzle. Give me your address by PM I will send you a scanned copy of all the torn pieces. You can try your hand to make out some meaning.

Mr Vaagmi:

The issue I was bringing to your attention is about your style of debating and not about the content which is a matter between you and Mr Sangom.

I was merely pointing out that your post go into attack mode of a person when they differ with you. So you may denigrate about someone's ego or call out that they are playing games instead of sticking to the issue by presenting your views.

For example the above post makes sense even to me without knowing anything about antiquity of Vaishnavism because the tone of the response is respectful and to the point.

When we question the motives of others (like playing games) how can we expect a good debate? I was only pointing out times when the escalation (ie attack the poster instead of the content of the post) happens.

You may think it is none of my business, but sorry I disagree. Once I see a message worth responding to I will to call out such things.

I hope we can get back into specifics of the points of the debate

 

[a-TB]

குற்றமுள்ள நெஞ்சு குறுகுறுக்கிறது! I named no one.

Unexpectedly humorous - people around me started asking as to why I am laughing LoL

 

[Vaagmi]

Unexpectedly humorous - people around me started asking as to why I am laughing LoL

To a group of people I was explaining what is cosying up to. I showed this post and they started laughing.

 

[Vaagmi]

Mr Vaagmi:

The issue I was bringing to your attention is about your style of debating and not about the content which is a matter between you and Mr Sangom.

I was merely pointing out that your post go into attack mode of a person when they differ with you. So you may denigrate about someone's ego or call out that they are playing games instead of sticking to the issue by presenting your views.

For example the above post makes sense even to me without knowing anything about antiquity of Vaishnavism because the tone of the response is respectful and to the point.

When we question the motives of others (like playing games) how can we expect a good debate? I was only pointing out times when the escalation (ie attack the poster instead of the content of the post) happens.

You may think it is none of my business, but sorry I disagree. Once I see a message worth responding to I will to call out such things.

I hope we can get back into specifics of the points of the debate

When you announce classes for style of debating, I will consider joining those classes.

You are biased and so every post of me looks like an attack. Perhaps குற்றமுள்ள நெஞ்சு குறுகுறுக்கிறது?

Nothing more to say about the rest of your post because it is all repetition of the same theme in different sentences. இந்த விளையாட்டுக்கு நான் தயாரில்லை.

 

[a-TB]

When you announce classes for style of debating, I will consider joining those classes.

You are biased and so every post of me looks like an attack. Perhaps குற்றமுள்ள நெஞ்சு குறுகுறுக்கிறது?

Nothing more to say about the rest of your post because it is all repetition of the same theme in different sentences. இந்த விளையாட்டுக்கு நான் தயாரில்லை.

....
....

Whatever

.....
Yawn

 

[zebra16]

Sangom,

I did not expect this kind of game playing from you.

I have no hesitation to tell you that the book (original aitareya Brahmana) with me is in tatters (the paper has become brittle and breaks when I lift it and I have several such pieces of paper). It is an edition brought out in the year 1942. I am not ble to read many of the lines as they are not readable. So I am unable to give you more info than what I gave in that earlier post which you are quoting now to hit me. Funny. I remember I had given several other instances from vedas and smritis in that post and this Kavasha story was just one of them. Moreover I had given other extracts about Kavasha - other than the 12-3 mentioned there. Please look into all the other evidences given by me there leaving this one if you want. This is childish to cling to a reference which had a tag connecting to AB's a particular panchika. If you can please read the whole of AB and if you do not find the reference come back to me and I will forward a scanned copy of the book I have after piecing together the jig saw puzzle that the sheet has become.

That does not release you from your obligation to tell us here about what Rig Veda says about all the 12 rudras. Please go ahead and start presenting them. We do not want your opinions. We want hard facts please, with references. Thank you.

Aitreya BrAhmaNam, the original text in sanskrit is available here: http://sanskritlibrary.org/textTranslation.html

Let not the torn and tattered copy hold back any discussion/debate.

 

[sangom]

Aitreya BrAhmaNam, the original text in sanskrit is available here: http://sanskritlibrary.org/textTranslation.html

Let not the torn and tattered copy hold back any discussion/debate.

Thank you Shri zebra. I just started looking into the online book, ans, it looks very much like the (printed) book I have. I will once again try to locate the 12-3 reference, and if I am able to locate it and it contains whatever Shri Vaagmi has quoted, then the discussion ends and the Rishis prayed to Kavasha.

If that 12-3 is not available, we come back to square one!

Anyway, many thanks for your timely help.

Besides, this whole argument about Kavasha story had been gone through at least once in the past vide http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=12760&page=28

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

According to agama practice, there are only certain flowers are fit for worship, based on their color,
fragrance, shape and origin, etc. Our Puranas specify the type of flowers that may be used in worship.
Similarly, the flowers that are not to be used in worship is also mentioned in our Vedic culture. In general,
flowers that carry a strong odor or that are odorless; flowers un-blossomed or too old; flowers bitten by insects
or otherwise mutilated; and flowers picked up from the floor and kept unused for a day or more are to be avoided.
Flowers grown in a garden are considered to be the best; flowers collected from the forests are ranked next;
and flowers bought from the shops, which are used for dead bodies are inferior (because in shops silently
sell it). Like that, the flowers that are used in the temple can be a Prasadam only and is not to be adorned to
the Deity at home as per my knowledge, which I have heard from my elders.

 

[Vaagmi]

According to agama practice, there are only certain flowers are fit for worship, based on their color,
fragrance, shape and origin, etc. Our Puranas specify the type of flowers that may be used in worship.
Similarly, the flowers that are not to be used in worship is also mentioned in our Vedic culture. In general,
flowers that carry a strong odor or that are odorless; flowers un-blossomed or too old; flowers bitten by insects
or otherwise mutilated; and flowers picked up from the floor and kept unused for a day or more are to be avoided.
Flowers grown in a garden are considered to be the best; flowers collected from the forests are ranked next;
and flowers bought from the shops, which are used for dead bodies are inferior (because in shops silently
sell it). Like that, the flowers that are used in the temple can be a Prasadam only and is not to be adorned to
the Deity at home as per my knowledge, which I have heard from my elders.

I do not know which agama/purana/Veda speaks about the color, fragrance,shape etc., If details are given it will be useful to refer to.

Vaishnavites do not believe in this kind of discrimination. a vaishnava Acharya has clearly said that any flower -of any color, shape and fragrance - is okay as long as the bhakta does not suffer any spikes by the thorn while collecting the flowers. Even a flower from a thorn bearing tree is okay if the bhakta has not suffered. And God will be pleased with any flower which is submitted to him with bhakti.

The exact word used is " அது கண்டகாரிப்புஷ்பமாயிருந்தாலும் இறைவனுக்கு ஏற்புடைத்தே. kantakaari is also called Kandankaththiri with a lot of thorns.

 

[Raji Ram]

Will all Gods accept 1. 'arugam pullu'; 2. 'vilvam'; 3. 'tulsi'?

As far as I know, 1 is special for Lord Ganesha, 2 for Lord Shiva and 3 for Lord Vishnu.

 

[renuka]

I do not know which agama/purana/Veda speaks about the color, fragrance,shape etc., If details are given it will be useful to refer to.

Vaishnavites do not believe in this kind of discrimination. a vaishnava Acharya has clearly said that any flower -of any color, shape and fragrance - is okay as long as the bhakta does not suffer any spikes by the thorn while collecting the flowers. Even a flower from a thorn bearing tree is okay if the bhakta has not suffered. And God will be pleased with any flower which is submitted to him with bhakti.

The exact word used is " அது கண்டகாரிப்புஷ்பமாயிருந்தாலும் இறைவனுக்கு ஏற்புடைத்தே. kantakaari is also called Kandankaththiri with a lot of thorns.

Lord Krishna was clear in Geeta..He only said Patram,Pushpham,Phalam,Toyam...He did not specify types...so technically I too do not subscribe to the believe that only certain flowers can be offered and others can not be offered.

Anyway have we found the flowers that we could really offer to God? Have we found His abode or are we still going around in circles?


Woh phool na ab tak chunn paayaa
Jo phool chadhaane hain tujhpar
Main tera dwaar na dhoond sakaa Hari
Bhatak rahaa hoon dagar dagar …

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Will all Gods accept 1. 'arugam pullu'; 2. 'vilvam'; 3. 'tulsi'?

As far as I know, 1 is special for Lord Ganesha, 2 for Lord Shiva and 3 for Lord Vishnu.

Are they coming under flower category?

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Lord Krishna was clear in Geeta..He only said Patram,Pushpham,Phalam,Toyam...He did not specify types...so technically I too do not subscribe to the believe that only certain flowers can be offered and others can not be offered.

Anyway have we found the flowers that we could really offer to God? Have we found His abode or are we still going around in circles?


Woh phool na ab tak chunn paayaa
Jo phool chadhaane hain tujhpar
Main tera dwaar na dhoond sakaa Hari
Bhatak rahaa hoon dagar dagar …

Are we Hindus following Shastras or the sayings of Gods and their avatars?

Was Krishna a God, avatar or human being? It is said he lost his life after Mahabharatha. If it is correct, he can be treated only as a human being. Opinions of human beings may definitely vary.

 

[renuka]

Are we Hindus following Shastras or the sayings of Gods and their avatars?

Was Krishna a God, avatar or human being? It is said he lost his life after Mahabharatha. If it is correct, he can be treated only as a human being. Opinions of human beings may definitely vary.

Dear Chandru,

It does not matter who Krishna was..whether He was God..a human being or an Avatar..what really mattered is His teachings.

After at the end of day even Shastras are opinions of the learned.

The word matam itself means an opinion..so that means there is no compulsion to believe or follow.

 

[sangom]

Lord Krishna was clear in Geeta..He only said Patram,Pushpham,Phalam,Toyam...He did not specify types...so technically I too do not subscribe to the believe that only certain flowers can be offered and others can not be offered.

Anyway have we found the flowers that we could really offer to God? Have we found His abode or are we still going around in circles?


Woh phool na ab tak chunn paayaa
Jo phool chadhaane hain tujhpar
Main tera dwaar na dhoond sakaa Hari
Bhatak rahaa hoon dagar dagar …

I have heard from elders that offering of flowers or Arccana is only one of the 16 kinds (types) of 'upacharas, called ஷோடசோபசார பூஜை (ṣoṭacopacāra pūjai) and this is a man-made thing. Pooja can be done by merely offering whatever you have, to the idol.

However, elders used to object to any flower which could become a seed (காய்) in the natural course, being used for arccanai because they felt it will be a sin to do that. Hence, we people use mainly the செம்பரத்தி (hibiscus) and certain other similar flowers which will not bear seed. Of course we use arukampul, vilavam and Tulasi leaves also for the particular deities (Ganesha, Siva and Vishnu respectively.).

 

[Raji Ram]

Are they coming under flower category?

They don't, obviously!

There are certain special leaves that we offer to Gods.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

There are specific flowers for each God, which are given in the Agama booklet. Certain flowers are
prohibited for certain Gods. For e.g. Thazhambu is not to be used to Lord Shiva. Vilvam leaf is not
used daily to Lord Vishnu except on one day in an year. If you want details, I can furnish it.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Hindu gods have their favourite days, colours and also flowers. Certain specific flowers are sacred to a particular Hindu gods. The rituals followed while worshiping a particular god are not complete without offering the god's favourite flower.

Here is a list of flowers sacred to the most important Hindu gods.

Hindu Gods Flowers Hindu Gods And Their Favourite Flowers:

Vishnu: Lord Vishnu, the preserver of the Universe has a colourful personality. He like wine, enjoys music and loves to becked up. He represents the cultural elements of our society. Lord Vishnu likes white and fragrant colours like mogra, jasmine etc. Apart from aromatic flowers, this Hindu god loves basil leaves.

Lord Shiva, the Destroyer of the Universe, is the divine ascetic. He lives the life of hermit in the wilderness of Mount Kailash and is clad in animal skin. Shiva loves all wild things and thus, pretty flowers are never offered to Him. He loves wild flowers like Dhatura and the poisonous flower Akondo or Apple of Sodom. Akondo is a white flower with a bluish tinge that matched the bluish hue of Shiva's throat.

Kali: Adishakti or the essence of all female power in the Universe is known as Kali in her most destructive form. She is a blood thirsty goddess who represents wearing a garland of Asura heads and blood dripping from her mouth. To match the colour of blood, she worshipped with blood-red hibiscus flowers.

Lakshmi: She is iconic for all that is auspicious and pure in your home. Goddess of wealth and prosperity accepts a wide range of flowers. Goddess Lakshmi is shown sitting on a lotus and thus that has to be her favouite flower. But in the absence of roses, any kind of red flowers, like red jasmine, please the goddess greatly. As she is a symbol of fertility and marital bliss, she must never be offered white flowers. White is the colour of widowhood in Hinduism and red is the colour of 'suhagan' (married woman). Vermilion or sindoor that is applied by all married Hindu women is also red.

Saraswati: The Goddess of Wisdom and Knowledge is always clad in white to symbolise purity of mind but her favourite colour is yellow. While offering prayers to this goddess you must be clad in yellow and also offer yellow coloured flowers like champa (Indian Magnolia) and yellow palash (Flame of the Forest).

Ganapati: The lord of the world Ganesha like red colour flowers just like Lakshmi. Red Genda (Marigold) flowers please him greatly. The Genda is special because it is the only flower of the gods that can be divided into its petals. Scientifically too, each petal of the Marigold flower is a flower in itself. These are some of the favourite flowers of Hindu gods and must be offered to them during their pooja.



Source : Net and Agama booklets

 

[Arunm]

In my opinion Once the Garland has touched the deity, it has become pure ( pure in the sense that even though the garland has been given by scores of other devotees and with losts of their own desires, hopes, expectations and agenda ). One way to use it is put the Garland in any AMMAN photo that might be in your home...so its a Goddess to Goddess transfer !!
Whenever I visit Sai Baba temple , by default I get a rose given from Babas feet or heart or whatever part...I put the same flower in Babas photo kept in my Puja Room...so far its all working fine..If the Garland is too big then other option is to hang it in front of the entrance door.
Please listen to your inner voice here ...do what it says !! It will be correct ...always.

 

[krishna moorthi sharma]

Namasthe!!!

Any activity of a devotee is judged based on the level of spiritual maturity that he/she has achieved. There are many devotees like Godha Nachiyaar(Andal) who even gave the garland which was worn by them to bagavan.... but can we propagate this for mass of devotees...?? no.... because others have not reached the peak of Andal's devotion... So when we speak about anything for common people it should have its contents from authentic text of sanathana dharma shastras..... According shastras a flower/leaf offered to bagavan should not be offered again to bagavan(with exceptions to some flowers like thulasi,bilva,lotus etc).... If we have any personal way of worship/practices which we think to be working good... unless prescribed in shastras or by sampradhaya acharyas..............

Radhe Krishna...................

 

[Arunm]

....That is why it is important to trust ones own inner voice and go by ones feelings. It will guide without fail. Who will judge spiritual maturity of a person? You and me cant ...so we do what is best under circumstances and leave the rest to God..be it an offering or a resolve .
There is no need to compare the devotion of one person with another ...Andal was a great devotee , so was Kannapar and so was Shabari and Avvaiyaar..but that doesnt make others lesser devotees. The Divine never compares. It observes..and goes by the motive of the act and not the act itself.

 

[Arunm]

Dear Nannilam balasubramanian
Excellent article !!
thank you for sharing. By chance I used a mixture of chandan,haldi and Tazhambu kumkum for Siva Abhishekam last week...hope not too much damage happened !!
Any way we should not give anyone the things that they dont like ...so from Next time I wont Annoy Him ..Thanks for sharing again.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

There are many devotees like Godha Nachiyaar(Andal) who even gave the garland which was worn by them to bagavan.... but can we propagate this for mass of devotees...?? no.... because others have not reached the peak of Andal's devotion...

Can you please explain the scale of devotion? Andal's devotion was primarily romantic and can it be termed as bhakthi?

Some devotees have lost their life and part of the body for the sake of God thru Bhakthi. Were they inferior to the summit peak achieved by Andal?

 

[Arunm]

There is no need to propagate anyhing. Follow your innervoice. You cut a part of your body ,stand upside down ,offer garland,dont offer garland nothing matters...Anugraham can descend on any one there is enough evidence to prove that ...its basically the MOTIVE behind an act which matters.As a said ,the Divine does not discriminate ...it sees the act BEHIND the physical actions.realized saints are clear on this ...they advice not to waste time on frivolous discussions and focus on the spiritual practice with faith, patience and devotion. Try to look beyond the action ...try.

 

[krishna moorthi sharma]

....That is why it is important to trust ones own inner voice and go by ones feelings. It will guide without fail. Who will judge spiritual maturity of a person? You and me cant ...so we do what is best under circumstances and leave the rest to God..be it an offering or a resolve .
There is no need to compare the devotion of one person with another ...Andal was a great devotee , so was Kannapar and so was Shabari and Avvaiyaar..but that doesnt make others lesser devotees. The Divine never compares. It observes..and goes by the motive of the act and not the act itself.

Pranamam!!!!

Answer to you question "Who will judge the spiritual maturity of a person".... ya it is neither me or you or anyone.... but bagavan himself has said in Bagavat Gita about what kind of devotees are there for him and he gives three classifications 1.Uttama bhaktha 2.Madhyama Bhaktha 3.Prakritha Bhaktha..... There is no adhama bhaktha according to bagavan... he have also said what are the qualities of bakthas in these three catagory.... So what I meant by judging spiritual maturity of a person is not from our point of view but it is from bagavan's point of you.... I agree that there is no need to compare the devotion of bakthas.... but do know one thing many true bhakthas has compared themself with other bhakthas and weep to bagavan that they do not have devotion like other (Eg: Appar cried to bagavan that he do not have as much bhakthi as thirugnanasambandhar)..... So comparing two great devotees is wrong.... but comparing ourselves with great devotes and crying to bagavan that we do not have as much bakthi like them is good for individuals spiritual progress...And it after the end of this spiritual progress the inner voice of a person becomes pure and tranquil. After that from whatever stream(even from other religions) from the bhaktha may be all his inner voice will do hitham for the whole world and also becomes universally acceptable........

Radhe Krishna..!!!!