Can you place Amman's garland at your home pooja photos?

[sangom]

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Well there has been an incidence in the past where a golden statue of Lord Buddha was stolen by a revered personality of a well known religious sect to construct and renovate a equally well known temple.

So what can we call that?

Call that person who stole as a "great saint" and worship him and then refute the stealing incident!

 

[Vaagmi]

Call that person who stole as a "great saint" and worship him and then refute the stealing incident!

Hang that person for theft, take his scalp and offer it as the Kanikkai to Budhdha. Justice will be done. We can pat ourselves on our back for establishing the rule of law and then go to bed and sleep happily.

 

[JR]

Call that person who stole as a "great saint" and worship him and then refute the stealing incident!

If you can call someone a 'great saint' who deserted his widowed, lonely, poverty-stricken, aged mother to rot until death to pursue the selfish goal of sanyasa, then it does convey something about 'saints' - that their goals are a bit different from that of ordinary mortals.

BTW: Thirumangai Mannan (Azhwar) did lose and cut off his own thumb in atonement for 'stealing a statue'. Whereas the above mentioned 'saint' cut-off something else (in atonement?).

Vanchinathan shot and killed Gen. Ash for a reason! He is celebrated as a martyr. When a foreign culture 'culturally appropriates' the native religion, or culture of a land, 'saints' do stand custody of the native land and risk anything for their cause - their own 'safety in heavens', their own reputation, their own physical well-being and bravely risk the costly 'atonements'.

 

[P.J.]

Dear RR ji...you and I are such wonderful women..our husbands are very lucky...some good karma they did to get us!LOL

:Cry::Cry:

look who is weeping!!!!

Two husbands!!!

 

[sangom]

If you can call someone a 'great saint' who deserted his widowed, lonely, poverty-stricken, aged mother to rot until death to pursue the selfish goal of sanyasa, then it does convey something about 'saints' - that their goals are a bit different from that of ordinary mortals.

BTW: Thirumangai Mannan (Azhwar) did lose and cut off his own thumb in atonement for 'stealing a statue'. Whereas the above mentioned 'saint' cut-off something else (in atonement?).

Vanchinathan shot and killed Gen. Ash for a reason! He is celebrated as a martyr. When a foreign culture 'culturally appropriates' the native religion, or culture of a land, 'saints' do stand custody of the native land and risk anything for their cause - their own 'safety in heavens', their own reputation, their own physical well-being and bravely risk the costly 'atonements'.

Anyway, it is now agreed that not all saints have to undergo rigorous training (except for stealing and avocations like that!) as some great man said in one of his posts earlier.

Poor Narsi Mehta, he did not know about "Vaishnava jana"!!

 

[a-TB]

If you can call someone a 'great saint' who deserted his widowed, lonely, poverty-stricken, aged mother to rot until death to pursue the selfish goal of sanyasa, then it does convey something about 'saints' - that their goals are a bit different from that of ordinary mortals.

BTW: Thirumangai Mannan (Azhwar) did lose and cut off his own thumb in atonement for 'stealing a statue'. Whereas the above mentioned 'saint' cut-off something else (in atonement?).

Vanchinathan shot and killed Gen. Ash for a reason! He is celebrated as a martyr. When a foreign culture 'culturally appropriates' the native religion, or culture of a land, 'saints' do stand custody of the native land and risk anything for their cause - their own 'safety in heavens', their own reputation, their own physical well-being and bravely risk the costly 'atonements'.

Mrs JR - Could you consider being more explicit for some of us who are not as well versed as you are? Who is the great saint who deserted his mother and what did he cut off?

Who is the saint who stole something to build something else ..

Not just you, but some others like to talk in riddles - is it sign of advanced knowledge??

or attempt to say something that is not to be said???

 

[JR]

a-TB ji,

You made me laugh. No, none of what I said is any advanced knowledge. Very simple knowledge only.

You see, in recent times, I made a flood of posts in religion section, one of them on how Adi Sankara's sect of Nambudiri Brahmins supposedly (debatable) till to this day do a weird thing of cutting the deceased's body to pieces and cremating it.

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=25239

Further, please find the following info:

1. Sri Adi Sankara took Sannyasa at age 7, though very young, he was still mature enough to make a conscious decision to become a sanyasi. His aged, old, poor and lonely mother was left behind as he took sanyasa. I made this point to show how saints carry altogether different goals and visions of life.

2. Since it was asserted by some members in this thread that Srivaishnava saint (Azhwar) Thirumangai Azhwar stole a Buddha statue for construction of Sri Ranganatha temple, I made it a point to correlate the Adi Sankara incident of deserting mother.

3. It is from my faint memory that Thirumangai Azhwar cut his thumb off as atonement for stealing the statue. But this is debatable, as is the entire Buddha statue episode, because it is said the saint approached the statue, the statue came to life and ran away, etc.

I'm sorry for not having been clear. That was not my intention.

 

[a-TB]

a-TB ji,

You made me laugh. No, none of what I said is any advanced knowledge. Very simple knowledge only.

You see, in recent times, I made a flood of posts in religion section, one of them on how Adi Sankara's sect of Nambudiri Brahmins supposedly (debatable) till to this day do a weird thing of cutting the deceased's body to pieces and cremating it.

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=25239

Further, please find the following info:

1. Sri Adi Sankara took Sannyasa at age 7, though very young, he was still mature enough to make a conscious decision to become a sanyasi. His aged, old, poor and lonely mother was left behind as he took sanyasa. I made this point to show how saints carry altogether different goals and visions of life.

2. Since it was asserted by some members in this thread that Srivaishnava saint (Azhwar) Thirumangai Azhwar stole a Buddha statue for construction of Sri Ranganatha temple, I made it a point to correlate the Adi Sankara incident of deserting mother.

3. It is from my faint memory that Thirumangai Azhwar cut his thumb off as atonement for stealing the statue. But this is debatable, as is the entire Buddha statue episode, because it is said the saint approached the statue, the statue came to life and ran away, etc.

I'm sorry for not having been clear. That was not my intention.

Thank you so much !! You are kind and helpful LoL

 

[renuka]

Mrs JR - Could you consider being more explicit for some of us who are not as well versed as you are? Who is the great saint who deserted his mother and what did he cut off?

Who is the saint who stole something to build something else ..

Not just you, but some others like to talk in riddles - is it sign of advanced knowledge??

or attempt to say something that is not to be said???

Dear Sir,

I know this is not directed to me..but I would like to add..many saints have had debatable history..for example even Swami Raghavendra deserted his wife and child which led to suicide of his wife.

Even though I am fond of Lord Buddha but till today I cant digest the fact that he left his wife and son at the late of the night without even telling them his intention of leaving for sanyas.

So there seems some slight problem here..wonder why these happened?
Could it be that everyone had some mild form of 'depression' that made them seek solace in sanyas.

Most people with depression tend to feel they want a change and want to escape from the world.

Every saint has a past and I feel may be they could have been depressed for some unknown reason.

 

[Raji Ram]

I wonder how every other thread leads to Saivite Vishanavite :boink: !!
May be, that is why it is said, ''All roads lead to Rome!" :decision:

And........... there exists one member who :rant: when the thread deviates from the OP!!

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Jayashree,
It is good to share blogs in our forum but better to check whether truth is written or not! :spy:

Here are some points to be noted:

1. A man in his young age would easily lift the dead body of his old mother and would NOT cut it into pieces! (sounds weird!)

( Adi Sankara lived only up to 33 years.)

2. As promised to his mother, he came when she was in her death bed and as per her request enabled her to have dharshan of

many Gods and Goddesses, by singing various slOkams.

3. Since his clan refused to help in cremation of his mother, stating that he was a sanyAsi, he did it by using the banana trees in

the backyard and lit the pyre by his power; any normal human being would not be able to do this!

4. My sister living in Kerala assures that nambudhiris DO NOT cut the dead body before cremation. :nono:


P.S: I posted the link for a blog, which gives the funeral rites of nambudhiris. Hope you read it.

 

[Vaagmi]

Anyway, it is now agreed that not all saints have to undergo rigorous training (except for stealing and avocations like that!) as some great man said in one of his posts earlier.

Poor Narsi Mehta, he did not know about "Vaishnava jana"!!

Listen to the forum mahatmagaru. He always speaks unholy truths.

 

[renuka]

:Cry::Cry:

look who is weeping!!!!

Two husbands!!!

tears of joy!

 

[renuka]

I wonder how every other thread leads to Saivite Vishanavite :boink: !!
May be, that is why it is said, ''All roads lead to Rome!" :decision:

the road had to lead either to Vaikunta or Kailash..why Rome?LOL

 

[a-TB]

Dear Sir,

I know this is not directed to me..but I would like to add..many saints have had debatable history..for example even Swami Raghavendra deserted his wife and child which led to suicide of his wife.

Even though I am fond of Lord Buddha but till today I cant digest the fact that he left his wife and son at the late of the night without even telling them his intention of leaving for sanyas.

So there seems some slight problem here..wonder why these happened?
Could it be that everyone had some mild form of 'depression' that made them seek solace in sanyas.

Most people with depression tend to feel they want a change and want to escape from the world.

Every saint has a past and I feel may be they could have been depressed for some unknown reason.

Thought provoking!
Q1) Why do people worship Swami Raghavendra then? He did such a selfish thing causing suicide
Q2) When Buddha ran away was he doing so knowing he will be a sannyas ?

 

[Raji Ram]

Thought provoking!
Q1) Why do people worship Swami Raghavendra then? He did such a selfish thing causing suicide
Q2) When Buddha ran away was he doing so knowing he will be a sannyas ?

If people lead a normal life - study, get married, produce children, grow old and die / die young, no one worships them!

You know that Adi Sankara lit the pyre, to cremate his mother's body kept on banana tree's parts, without the using fire! :thumb:

 

[CHANDRU1849]

What about Meera Bhai? She also left her husband for the sake of Krishna. Dare devil act will always be rewarded.

 

[sangom]

Hi All,

Thanks for taking the time your time to reply back. Appreciate it. Now I will change my practise of placing those garlands and flowers in my thulasi leave. For the flowers, I can give it to my family members to wear in their head.

Santhom ji,

Definately, the purity of the temple is unmatched and I cant compare it to my puja room in any sense. I just categorised all these energies from the temple and as well as the one in my home as positive energy generally.

Shri venka sir,

I do not know whether there is really any "positive energy" or things like that and whether it can be measured by any instrument. AFAIK, it is a customary belief (simply, belief) and just as our National Flag, we have some rules by complying which, we try to show our respect towards the garland from the temple etc.

If you ask me, your pooja ought to be more sacred (and more positive energy-fied) for you because you or your family member must be doing the pooja with all sincerity, whereas, in the case of the temple, it is the daily work for the poojari who tries to earn some money by working as poojari. You might have heard the saying "for the poojari, the idol is just stone!".

 

[sangom]

a-TB ji,

You made me laugh. No, none of what I said is any advanced knowledge. Very simple knowledge only.

You see, in recent times, I made a flood of posts in religion section, one of them on how Adi Sankara's sect of Nambudiri Brahmins supposedly (debatable) till to this day do a weird thing of cutting the deceased's body to pieces and cremating it.

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=25239

Further, please find the following info:

1. Sri Adi Sankara took Sannyasa at age 7, though very young, he was still mature enough to make a conscious decision to become a sanyasi. His aged, old, poor and lonely mother was left behind as he took sanyasa. I made this point to show how saints carry altogether different goals and visions of life.

< Clipped >

Just for info please.

Adishankara's parents did not have children and so both of them finally went to Guruvayur (just an hour's train journey today, but we don't know what it was 1200 years ago.) and performed Bhajanam (eating the prasaadams only from the temple, no other food, and attend all the poojas of the idol, for continuous 41 days and sleep also in the temple praakaaram only.) in Guruvayur and then the father ahd vision of god saying that a very brilliant son would be born to them. Happily, the couple returned to their place Kalady where the family was not 'poor' but middle-class.

As fate would have it Shankara's father died suddenly and the fact of Shankara's mother being pregnant came to be known only later. The orthodox Nambudiri society therefore concluded that the young woman must have gone astray and since they did not have any complaint against her or any evidence to confirm the doubt, they could not proceed against her according to the well-known "Smaartha Vichaaram" procedure. The Nambudiris were always very worried (to a fault) about their women going astray and this has been an abiding feature of that community till the last century or so, when the Smaartha Vichaaram was prohibited by Royal decree.

Hence Shankara's mother was, for all practical purposes, ostracized by the Nambudiris but, as the social mores of the Kerala society were, other castes and communities could and they must have helped.

When Shankara told his mother that he was to take sanyasa, his mother reminded him of his duty to perform the last rites for her body since he was the only son and Shankara is supposed to have assured her that he would come in the correct time and do the rites.

Though Shankara is supposed to have severed the dead body into three pieces etc., Nambudiris never copied the act; only, in remembrance and atonement of their mistake they take a whole blade of Darbha grass and place it on the body on the neck and waist and perhaps chant some sanskrit mantras seeking god's mercy for the sin committed by their ancestors.

Thirumangai Azhwar's pre-saint life was that of a thug chieftain. Even after becoming an azhwar, etc., his religious intolerance towards buddhists and jains come out in his paasuram and he says it is the duty of a true vaishnava to kill a buddist as soon as he sees! (This is from my memory and is subject to correction. I am searching for the relevant paasuram in my hard drive.) So much for "vaishnava jana to tene kahiye ...sakal lokmaa sahune vande, nindaa na kare koi; vaach kaachh man nischhal raakhe"

 

[sangom]

Hi All,

Thanks for taking the time your time to reply back. Appreciate it. Now I will change my practise of placing those garlands and flowers in my thulasi leave. For the flowers, I can give it to my family members to wear in their head.

Santhom ji,

Definately, the purity of the temple is unmatched and I cant compare it to my puja room in any sense. I just categorised all these energies from the temple and as well as the one in my home as positive energy generally.

Shri venka sir,

I do not know whether there is really any "positive energy" or things like that and whether it can be measured by any instrument. AFAIK, it is a customary belief (simply, belief) and just as our National Flag, we have some rules by complying which, we try to show our respect towards the garland from the temple etc.

If you ask me, your pooja ought to be more sacred (and more positive energy-fied) for you because you or your family member must be doing the pooja with all sincerity, whereas, in the case of the temple, it is the daily work for the poojari who tries to earn some money by working as poojari. You might have heard the saying "for the poojari, the idol is just stone!".

 

[sangom]

< Clipped >

1. A man in his young age would easily lift the dead body of his old mother and would NOT cut it into pieces! (sounds weird!)

( Adi Sankara lived only up to 33 years.)

It is not possible to lift a dead body single handed, unless you don't care what happens to it and are just throwing it in a pit (as the ISIS people do often). Please ask some Hospital/morgue people for details; perhaps Smt. Renuka will explain authoritatively.

 

[Raji Ram]

It is not possible to lift a dead body single handed, unless you don't care what happens to it and are just throwing it in a pit (as the ISIS people do often). Please ask some Hospital/morgue people for details; perhaps Smt. Renuka will explain authoritatively.

Dear Sir,

Does it mean that Adi Sankara cut his mother's dead body into pieces?

How weird!! :dizzy:

 

[Raji Ram]

...... Though Shankara is supposed to have severed the dead body into three pieces etc., Nambudiris never copied the act; only, in remembrance and atonement of their mistake they take a whole blade of Darbha grass and place it on the body on the neck and waist and perhaps chant some sanskrit mantras seeking god's mercy for the sin committed by their ancestors.
.........

Thanks for the clarification, Sir.

My sister living in Kerala also told me that the 'cutting of the body' is NOT done.

 

[JR]

Just for info please.

Adishankara's parents did not have children and so both of them finally went to Guruvayur (just an hour's train journey today, but we don't know what it was 1200 years ago.) and performed Bhajanam (eating the prasaadams only from the temple, no other food, and attend all the poojas of the idol, for continuous 41 days and sleep also in the temple praakaaram only.) in Guruvayur and then the father ahd vision of god saying that a very brilliant son would be born to them. Happily, the couple returned to their place Kalady where the family was not 'poor' but middle-class.

As fate would have it Shankara's father died suddenly and the fact of Shankara's mother being pregnant came to be known only later. The orthodox Nambudiri society therefore concluded that the young woman must have gone astray and since they did not have any complaint against her or any evidence to confirm the doubt, they could not proceed against her according to the well-known "Smaartha Vichaaram" procedure. The Nambudiris were always very worried (to a fault) about their women going astray and this has been an abiding feature of that community till the last century or so, when the Smaartha Vichaaram was prohibited by Royal decree.

Hence Shankara's mother was, for all practical purposes, ostracized by the Nambudiris but, as the social mores of the Kerala society were, other castes and communities could and they must have helped.

When Shankara told his mother that he was to take sanyasa, his mother reminded him of his duty to perform the last rites for her body since he was the only son and Shankara is supposed to have assured her that he would come in the correct time and do the rites.

Though Shankara is supposed to have severed the dead body into three pieces etc., Nambudiris never copied the act; only, in remembrance and atonement of their mistake they take a whole blade of Darbha grass and place it on the body on the neck and waist and perhaps chant some sanskrit mantras seeking god's mercy for the sin committed by their ancestors.

Thirumangai Azhwar's pre-saint life was that of a thug chieftain. Even after becoming an azhwar, etc., his religious intolerance towards buddhists and jains come out in his paasuram and he says it is the duty of a true vaishnava to kill a buddist as soon as he sees! (This is from my memory and is subject to correction. I am searching for the relevant paasuram in my hard drive.) So much for "vaishnava jana to tene kahiye ...sakal lokmaa sahune vande, nindaa na kare koi; vaach kaachh man nischhal raakhe"

Namaste Sir,

Thanks for the info (and possibly the painstaking effort that went behind gathering it...).

That Adi Sankara ended up cutting his mother's body is not the theme of the Casteism thread. That Casteism in any of its form, in other words, intolerance and aversion (avarice) was and is widespread among people from all castes, creed, gender, social standing, sexual orientation, color, etc and not limited to only 'Vaishnavas'. It was an educative post to propogate this theme (only)!

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Just for info please.

Adishankara's parents did not have children and so both of them finally went to Guruvayur (just an hour's train journey today, but we don't know what it was 1200 years ago.) and performed Bhajanam (eating the prasaadams only from the temple, no other food, and attend all the poojas of the idol, for continuous 41 days and sleep also in the temple praakaaram only.) in Guruvayur and then the father ahd vision of god saying that a very brilliant son would be born to them. Happily, the couple returned to their place Kalady where the family was not 'poor' but middle-class.

My argument that Namboodhiris are not Shaivites becomes valid from the above narration. One member in this forum contended that Adi Shankara was a Shaivite.

If Adi Shankara's parents were indeed true Shaivites, why did they go to Guruvayur and seek the blessing of the God, who will not be considered by a true and staunch Shaivite as God? They could have gone to Shiva temple instead.