Can we change the destiny of a baby by fixing the time of birth?

[sangom]

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If fate makes a mother undergo c-section to deliver her baby and that child has a good fortune of being born in a good

time (to get a good horoscope), then the mother will be able to find both these persons: The right astrologer, who calculates

a good time of birth and the right surgeon who follows the given instructions! This satisfies the karma theory. :thumb:

Smt. RR,

If it is fated that the child to be born should have a bright future, then that baby will be born, even without C-section at an auspicious moment. Else, even without astrology the surgery would take place in such a way that the birth will be at the predestined time. One thing all of us will agree is that we are completely ignorant of how that FATE actually works. It is therefore, somewhat foolish for us to attempt tinkering/tweeking with Fate. It will be like a monkey trying to operate, say, an atomic reactor, imho!!

 

[prasad1]

Shri Ranganathan,

Just as in almost every walk of life, astrology has also become a way to make money. And this calls for publicity and so some astrologers start writing weekly/monthly predictions in periodicals with good circulation, etc. They have now spread to the TV channels too.

We have lost the old culture when astrologers would not simply go after money but only perform their duty either because their ancestors were astrologers who served the community or they somehow had the gift to predict correctly. Those astrologers were usually poor to very poor; our brahmin community failed to give them even a modicum of support in those days. But today the same brahmin community people get telephonic appointments of astrologers and pay heavy amounts to them. What an irony!!

True.
But let me ask you a question. You are learned, but accept others Point of view.
If astrology can predict the future, they should be rich, may be they should handicap horse racing or cricket betting. Or in stock picking.

This is not a challenge to anyone on this site.

Let us say we have the best astrologer on the planet. Let us take an international stock index let us say DOW Jones. Let that person predict the exact number the Dow jones Industrial average will close on October 30th 2012. It stands at 13,131.25 now.

 

[C RAVI]

Smt. RR,

If it is fated that the child to be born should have a bright future, then that baby will be born, even without C-section at an auspicious moment. Else, even without astrology the surgery would take place in such a way that the birth will be at the predestined time. One thing all of us will agree is that we are completely ignorant of how that FATE actually works. It is therefore, somewhat foolish for us to attempt tinkering/tweeking with Fate. It will be like a monkey trying to operate, say, an atomic reactor, imho!!

:thumb:

 

[Raji Ram]

...... If it is fated that the child to be born should have a bright future, then that baby will be born, even without C-section at an auspicious moment. Else, even without astrology the surgery would take place in such a way that the birth will be at the predestined time..........

We all know that 'avanindri Or aNuvum asaiyAdhu'. God's will is called as fate by some people.

But if it is the fate of the astrologer to get money from this mother, she has to seek his advice! Just a thought...

 

[C RAVI]

Astrolgy is a devine art to guide the human being by looking at the indicatioins of one's destiny.


As scuh, millions of people have experienced in their life as how their life was predicted and how truely that has taken place. Certainly this is not a Joke.


Astrology can also be used to predict important happening/events in the society of this world, in general terms, like - demise of eminent personalities, natural calamities, financial/industrial/trade constraints or growth etc..etc in a broader and general terms.


The subject can not be used to identify each and every move of the society and societal transactions and have human life perfectly channelised towards attaining only gains, by avoiding losses through share market fluctuations.

If that would have been possible, the devine subject would make no sense. Because, loss is the very much part of the game of the creation.

 

[sravna]

True.
But let me ask you a question. You are learned, but accept others Point of view.
If astrology can predict the future, they should be rich, may be they should handicap horse racing or cricket betting. Or in stock picking.

This is not a challenge to anyone on this site.

Let us say we have the best astrologer on the planet. Let us take an international stock index let us say DOW Jones. Let that person predict the exact number the Dow jones Industrial average will close on October 30th 2012. It stands at 13,131.25 now.

Dear Prasad,

Can any mathematical model predict that? I think not. Then it has the same credibility that astrology is given by the scientists.

Having said that, IMO astrology predictions can be far more accurate than those of any mathematical model. IMO, it is the ultimate predictive tool.

 

[sangom]

True.
But let me ask you a question. You are learned, but accept others Point of view.
If astrology can predict the future, they should be rich, may be they should handicap horse racing or cricket betting. Or in stock picking.

This is not a challenge to anyone on this site.

Let us say we have the best astrologer on the planet. Let us take an international stock index let us say DOW Jones. Let that person predict the exact number the Dow jones Industrial average will close on October 30th 2012. It stands at 13,131.25 now.

I knew one astrologer, (he is no more) who was a devotee of Devi, who would have predicted whether the DJ would end up higher or lower; but to say exactly where - at what number, that is - at which the index will start/close on 31-10-2012 will be impossible even for the best astrologer.

I feel, but am not sure, that in matters like this which involves the behaviour of a large number of people, astrology can at best give only indicative predictions; the same applies for country predictions. (You may kindly recall my post, sometime back, regarding India's fortunes in the years to come.)

 

[sangom]

We all know that 'avanindri Or aNuvum asaiyAdhu'. God's will is called as fate by some people.

But if it is the fate of the astrologer to get money from this mother, she has to seek his advice! Just a thought...

It satisfies my mind to conceive of fate, Karma, etc., as the motive forces of this universe, rather than making some male God (avan) who capriciously plays with helpless humanity. So, if it is the Karma of the astrologer to earn money in this way it will happen. But whether the surgery in each and every case takes place at the time recommended by the astrologer, and whether such births really become lucky individuals, nobody can say.

FYKI, already there is a practice in which maternity hospitals, gynaecologists and astrologers are in cahoots; and there is a cut-back from the astrologer to the hospital and/or the gynaecologist.

There is a similar arrangement (unholy, though) between astrologers, priests of some well-known temples known for the astrological pariharams. These are also brought about by Fate or Karma, imo.

 

[prasad1]

It satisfies my mind to conceive of fate, Karma, etc., as the motive forces of this universe, rather than making some male God (avan) who capriciously plays with helpless humanity. So, if it is the Karma of the astrologer to earn money in this way it will happen. But whether the surgery in each and every case takes place at the time recommended by the astrologer, and whether such births really become lucky individuals, nobody can say.

FYKI, already there is a practice in which maternity hospitals, gynaecologists and astrologers are in cahoots; and there is a cut-back from the astrologer to the hospital and/or the gynaecologist.

There is a similar arrangement (unholy, though) between astrologers, priests of some well-known temples known for the astrological pariharams. These are also brought about by Fate or Karma, imo.

Sir Sangom,
If astrology is used as an insurance, or for entreatment I have no argument with it.
But this thread was started because the one person wanted to effect the future of her child by choosing the exact time of birth. Majority of the opinion was that, it is in God's hand.

Some minority opinion was they can predict the future of the child by pre-arranging the Jadgam and then demand the doctor to arrange the birth time to this auspicious occasion.

It galls me that people put so much pressure on the mother by guaranteeing the future of the child by time of birth.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Sangom Sir,

People who have faith in 'Avan' will believe that whatever happens to them by His grace is good for them, even when

they face difficulties in life. The ultimate belief in karma theory might lead a person not to believe in 'Avan'! They might

start arguing 'Why should I pray God; after all whatever is to happen will happen by fate; let it take its course!'. IMHO,

the strong belief in 'Ista Deivam' makes the mind very calm. I already mentioned that after the 'special prayer' before

leaving the house, during the 'kantaka Sani' period, I was able to keep my mind cool and carry on with my work easily!

 

[renuka]

So far I have noted only 1 prediction in my horoscope did not come true.
Any horoscope I got made when I was young including my Nadi Joshiam predicted that my 1st born will be a girl child and the 2nd born will be a boy.

My child is a boy and husband and I did not plan to have anymore kids so he is my only child.

The best part is his horoscope says that he will be the 1st born male and the only child...all thoughts of having another child will be erased from parents mind upon his birth.

I was thinking that his horoscope seemed true cos he is the 1st born and true enough all thoughts to have another child just never came to my husbands and my mind.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,
What is this? The jAlrAs can never be visible to people unless they read the posts to find out what is appreciated! :clap2:
Did you notice that the option for clicking 'like' is missing! eep:

P.S: Anyway, I am happy because, now no one can scold me for not giving any likes so far!! :dance:

 

[Raji Ram]

........ The best part is his horoscope says that he will be the 1st born male and the only child...all thoughts of having another child will be erased from parents mind upon his birth..........

​Very true, Renu.
I have met quite a few parents with this feeling! :decision:

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu,
What is this? The jAlrAs can never be visible to people unless they read the posts to find out what is appreciated! :clap2:
Did you notice that the option for clicking 'like' is missing! eep:

P.S: Anyway, I am happy because, now no one can scold me for not giving any likes so far!! :dance:

Dear RR ji,

Yes..someone suggested this to the moderator so that Jalraism can be controlled.

So now Forum will be more peaceful with less conflicts.

 

[renuka]

​Very true, Renu.
I have met quite a few parents with this feeling! :decision:

Dear RR ji,

Recently in India one astrologer told me this ..don't know how far it will be true.

He said "be strong for what I am going to tell you..be prepared to be alone when you are old cos your stars show your husband and son might take up Sanyas in future"

I told him "If that is true I should be happy that at least I got a life to be a wife and mother to Sanyasis"

He said most women will feel scared and breakdown to hear this.


Anyway I told him may be my husband and son will get sick and tired of me and run into the jungle!LOL

 

[Raji Ram]

............ Yes..someone suggested this to the moderator so that Jalraism can be controlled........

Hope so!! :lol:

Anyway, it makes no difference for me because I write to appreciate, if I like a post.
I never liked to click on 'like' !! eace:

 

[renuka]

Hope so!! :lol:

Anyway, it makes no difference for me because I write to appreciate, if I like a post.
I never liked to click on 'like' !! eace:

Dear RR ji,

You see to a certain extent it slows down Jalraism.

Last time all the person needed to do is read the 1st two sentences and then click Like as reflex.

But now anyone of us need to read the post fully and then write something.

But Jalraism is a fast mutating virus so new forms will appear!

You see a person can still read only a few lines the Click Reply with Quote and use a Smiley to convey his/her appreciation.:clap2:

Examples of Smiley that might be used:

:kiss:

 

[sangom]

Sir Sangom,
If astrology is used as an insurance, or for entreatment I have no argument with it.
But this thread was started because the one person wanted to effect the future of her child by choosing the exact time of birth. Majority of the opinion was that, it is in God's hand.

Some minority opinion was they can predict the future of the child by pre-arranging the Jadgam and then demand the doctor to arrange the birth time to this auspicious occasion.

It galls me that people put so much pressure on the mother by guaranteeing the future of the child by time of birth.

Dear Shri Prasad,

I agree with you. Contemporary maternity, especially among the nouveau riche middle classes which has arisen in India due to the e-coolie or IT sector, has become yet another opportunity for the young mother-to-be to flaunt herself, show that she can conceive, deliver and that too a baby with a very promising horoscope. Though, my observation has been that nowadays the mothers are unable to carry the fetus till the completion of the full term of pregnancy, especially when the child is male and in metro cities in India there is a visible boom of "neo-natal" hospitals/clinics which again is a good way of earning good money very quickly.

Many of the first-time mothers seem to regard their child/children (since AI, IVF, etc., are also very commonly resorted to now) as yet another of their 'possessions' — much like their state-of-the-art cars, costly jewels/diamonds, exotic dog/s, etc. The duty of taking care of the child is increasingly upon the fathers some of whom have even given up very prestigious and lucrative careers and spend 5 to 6 hours daily in looking after the child/children. We may see complete role-reversal within a few years and will have "house-husbands" in more and more numbers.

I, therefore, feel that the pressure is not being "put on" the mother but by herself on others to find out the best time for her C-section. I am writing this from personal knowledge of cases around me.

 

[sangom]

Dear Sangom Sir,

People who have faith in 'Avan' will believe that whatever happens to them by His grace is good for them, even when

they face difficulties in life. The ultimate belief in karma theory might lead a person not to believe in 'Avan'! They might

start arguing 'Why should I pray God; after all whatever is to happen will happen by fate; let it take its course!'. IMHO,

the strong belief in 'Ista Deivam' makes the mind very calm. I already mentioned that after the 'special prayer' before

leaving the house, during the 'kantaka Sani' period, I was able to keep my mind cool and carry on with my work easily!

Smt. RR,

You are right when you say, "belief in karma theory might lead a person not to believe in 'Avan'". But imho, this 'avan'-reliance will not be helpful in facing the one inevitable, viz., death. I read somewhere that Thyagaraja, who firmly believed in Rama as his only "avan", and even sang "Giripai nela konna..." suffered from delusion-like status during his last few months since, contrary to his life-long faith, Rama never came, nor did his life end in whatever way he probably had imagined. Whereas I have seen many ordinay housewives (including long-time widows) who take everything as Fate and such people move on to the next world with the least fuss.

Yes, but belief in Fate diminishes belief in the idol-based godheads but slowly increases what our prasad1 had conveyed through Kabir's doha: terā sāyīṃ tujh meṃ hai, tū jāg sakai to jāg.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Sangom Sir,

Thanks for you reply. In the song you have mentioned - the composition of Saint Thyagaraja - he says that Rama told him that

He will take care of him in ten days time. And, he died after about ten days and his sishyAs could see a 'jyothi' going up from

his 'uchchan thalai'. Probably, that was the way the Saint wanted to leave this world and reach the lotus feet of Lord Rama. :hail:

 

[Raji Ram]

......... Examples of Smiley that might be used: :kiss:

​OMG! Renu! You will never change! :lol:

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

But.... The 'report post' facility is still available! :typing:
And there is a special thread to report! :horn:

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu,

But.... The 'report post' facility is still available! :typing:
And there is a special thread to report! :horn:

Dear RR ji,

That is all incognito.
So that's fine.

 

[amala]

The like button had outlived its purpose...so had to go

 

[suraju06]

Arguments from மறுபக்கம் (other side):

1. C-section and astrology: A mother is not sure about the nature of astrology. In fact she does not know anything about it. She knows just this much that there are good times and bad times or what is called auspicious time and inauspicious time. She also believes that this "time" is blamed by people in the society for all the misfortune that befalls an individual. The mother, being a mother, and like any other mother, would like the child to live a happy life in the world after she gives birth to it. So she looks around to take care of the"time" to the extent it is possible. When C section is advised to her she thinks why not give birth at an auspicious time. If it were a normal birth there would have been all the uncertainties that go with that. But in C section one thing is certain-When the child will get out of the womb of the mother. So what is wrong in the mother seeking the advice of an astrologer? Why this misinterpretation that she wants to change the fate of the child? To give an example, when you buy a car you prefer to go for one which has a airbag to take care of eventualities. Does it mean that you are going to crash and are looking forward to being sandwiched between the seat and the dashboard by the airbag? We know we should drive without crashing, without hitting solid objects on the way and we do that carefully. Airbags give us a satisfaction which is for eventualities. In spite of the airbag a person may die in an accident. C section in tandem with an astrologer's advice takes care of a mothers anxiety in a unique way. Those who are doubtful please release an ad in any of the matrimonials giving the star of the girl as Ayilyam, Pooradam or moolam and see what the response is. A mother's anxiety to avoid such stars is quite understandable because we live in a society which believes too much in astrology though astrology is a lot of humbug. To do something good, you have to contend with month (some months are no no), paksha, thithi, star, yoga, chandrashtama, Rahukalam, yamakantam, position of the navagrahas in various houses on the given day(Gocharam), Your running dasa and its bukthi and what more. It is a weird world. Poor mother. If she is aware of what is called "jAyamAna kadAksham" she could as well ask for a learned sadhu to be present and witness the baby coming out!!

2.லைக்குகள்- the use of likes: Only after reading a post in this thread I noticed that the facility is missing. And one member has alluded to a "gang of four". I do not know who are they. I do not know who complained about the provision and why it was deleted altogether. I found the facility a very useful one. When I liked something in somebody's post I had the "like" handy to express my appreciation. To imagine that this facility helped people to gang up is stretching things too far. From now on instead of "like" I will use "reply with quote" to reproduce all that is said in the post and add just a sentence "I like this". In the process more of memory space will be wasted in the server. Other than this no other tangible benefit seems to have accrued. It is an ill advised move. Hope Praveen will give it some thought.