Can Tamils follow the Tamil culture in abroad?

[shansnrmp]

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Mr. Sangom's advice in his post#2 is wonderful. Now a days with "SKYPE" you can virtually be here, and of course you should maintain as close a contact you can muster. In US, majority of PIO's maintain most of the customs of their families. There are every possible facilities are available. It is up to the parents and their ability and desire to use the facilities.
I wish you best of luck.

Thank you for the nice information.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

I am told that all the facilities are available for Tamil people
to live happily as if they are in their own land. My relatives too
live in States, though I had no opportunity to visit that place.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[shansnrmp]

Dear siva,

re your post # 19

I do not agree with raji’s argument. On both counts. One that our children should marry whom we ask them. it is an alternate mode, and in today’s world with its complexities, it is simply not fair to our children, to put such restrictions on them.

How many of us truly know our children and what they think, like or want out of life. In fact, I think, our culture is among the most stratified ie the relationship between the father and the son, so formal and one clothed in ‘respect’ and not trust and conviviality. Simply saying, your father is not your friend with whom you confide. Not that it would help anyway.

Your friend chandrasekhar is absolutely correct in his approach to his daughter’s wedding. If she wants any help in looking, he should be ready to offer. Otherwise he should trust his daughter to find a spouse. If he had brought up with good value systems, chances are she will choose someone, who is not only compatible, but would be a partner for a contented life. Again there is no guarantee here, but we assume that she knows herself, and hopefully what she wants out of a spouse.

We should learn to let go of our children, when they have reached an adult stage. Why are we not so confident that they can make good decisions? Or better decisions than us? What is the reason for our insecurity? Don’t we have faith in the way we have brought them up? What is it that we are fearful of losing so much, that we need to cling on to our children, making their lives a misery?

Siva, I think, the problem is not the children. It is us. Parents. We need to grow up.

Sir,

With sure that our children should marry whom we ask them. Eventually they are not refused our desires or advices. It is said now-a days the settled marriages are common even in India. Especially in Chennai this type of marriages are very common, when comparing to the second or third tier cities. But ironically most of this love marriages are failed. The main reason of all these happenings because that our joint family systems are not adopted for various causes.

 

[kunjuppu]

Smt.Raji Ram,
I refer to your post no.12.I was told by my DIL that people here generally avoid (1)AMWAY IBOs (2)Members of Art of Living(Sri Sri Ravi sankher).My son is in software line and also doing Amway business.Most of the software persons here join Amway.I was myself an Amway
IBO for a few years while in Chennai but was never active.You will be astonished to know that one Mr.Kumar Sivaramakrishnan (affectionately called by Amway people as'Kumar') joined Amway
when he came to USA to do Masters,became successful by 29 years of age and quit his job in AT&T.He was the person who introduced Amway in India in 1998.If he comes on the stage ,the entire crowd mostly Americans, Indians and from other countries enjoy and applaud his speech.
I presume he may be getting roughly $30,000 to $40,000 per month sitting at home.Now he is in Amway business full time and a prominent leader.

dear BK,

organizations like Amway, Mary Kay, Tupperware - i think make use of friendship to make money. personally, i see it as an abuse of friendship and betrayal of the same for mammon.

some people don't, but in all the encounters that i have had, there has been a lot of bad taste left in the mouth of those who feel obliged to buy the stuff, often over priced and standard quality.

ofcourse, the invitation always says, that it is just that, and no one is obliged to buy. i have one german friend who went to one such party, partook of the refreshments offered, and thanked her host and walked out. the latter burst out, at the 'nerve of my friend' for coming to her house, eating her food, and leaving without buying anything.another friend lost.

personally, i would discourage anyone from selling, or buying, from friends. friendship is something more than making money. atleast i think so.

 

[Raji Ram]

............... I presume he may be getting roughly $30,000 to $40,000 per month sitting at home.Now he is in Amway business full time and a prominent leader.

Dear Sir,

You are highlighting the success story. But have you heard of a few youngsters who lost their good jobs for the sake of

joining Amway, could not make any profit and lost many good friends in their circle?

Regards.........

 

[Raji Ram]

I am told that all the facilities are available for Tamil people to live happily as if they are in their own land. ..............

Please go through the thread 'ஓ அமெரிக்கா' in the literature section, Sir!

I have given glimpses of the style of living in the US. I am sure you can read Tamil!
Tamils can live happily there but have to work hard. Life is not easy in the US as many of us think. :ballchain:

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

I refer to posts no 29 and 30.There are positive and negative aspects in all our activities.
Initially I was also having a wrong impression about Amway business.After attending number of weekly meetings with my son here,I think it is a good organisation like any other Satsang.
They follow a system called BWW i.e; Britt World Wide.They do have a moral code of conduct.Everymonth a good book is prescribed for all members to read.There is no bias on the basis of caste,religion etc.Members extend help to other members.
There is absolutely no cheating or fraud.None will be compelled either to join the business or to purchase the products.
The business gives opportunity to make some money if you have the talent to enroll members who should be as dedicated as you are.Most of the persons who join are under a wrong notion that they can make easy money at a short period of time.
If one wants to come up in life one has to listen only to success stories.Negative thinking is discouraged in this business.Members are free to leave the business
at anytime.
Recently I saw a member(Palaghat Iyer who spent major years in Mumbai and presently staying in LA,California)criticising Amway business left and right .I requested him to be specific in his criticismHe replied me that both his sons read in some prestigious institute in America and are well positioned in America.
His basic objection was that an American company is selling the products in India and
transfer the profits earned in India to USA.As a nationalist Indian,he strongly felt that the same business should be done by Indians in America selling products to Americans and transfer the profits to India.Subsequently I came to know that he tried to get contract for packing and despatching products to all members while he was in Mumbai,but Amway did not oblige him.This made him to become a strong critic of Amway.
I also read that Kerala High Court has recently issued some orders restricting Amway business in Kerala but do not have details.I am taking their "Nutralite Health products"and it helps me to maintain good health.
Ps:- I am not advocating or recommending Amway.It is for individuals to get to know all relevant facts about Amway and take their own decision.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Dear Thiru.Sivashanmugam,
I refer to your post no.25.In my next trip to India(may be in Feb,2012,I will carry some old issues of the magazine for your perusal.I visit Tiruchirapalli and Karur is only a few ghours journey by Bus.
I give below their Email address and website particulars.You may get in touch with them.If they are agreeable,Yourself,Smt.Raji Ram,and Smt.Visalakshi Ramani can contribute articles/poems etc which may help Tamilians living in USA to know about our culture.
E Mail Address:-"[email protected]"
Website"-"www.tamilonline.com"

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Dear Shri.Sangom,
After reading your post no.17,I am reminded of a 'Social problem' prevailing in Mumbai.
Once I went on official trip to Mumbai with a colleague,a Maharastrian belonging to Indian Economic Service.He had earlier visited Mumbai to have training in RBI.
All the participants were advised not to go to the open ground near backwaters in
Prabhadevi(Western Railway side of DADAR).Out of curiosity all went and saw the actual position prevailing there.He was therefore anxious to show me that place.One evening
We were standing near Dadar Rly Stn(WR) at about 6 pm.WE noticed that couples
(could be really married or otherwise) going to the open ground near backwaters.
My colleague told me that by 6.30 pm the ground will be fully occupied and late comers have to wait for their turn(as it is to happen in Matunga mess in 1960s).
I do not remember the correct year.It could be 1985 or so.

 

[shansnrmp]

I am told that all the facilities are available for Tamil people
to live happily as if they are in their own land. My relatives too
live in States, though I had no opportunity to visit that place.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

Shri Balasubramanian.

With sure that all the facilities are available for Tamil people to live happily as if they are in their own land. Of course, the elders said that the migration might take only, when seeing the deserted of the last bread. Nevertheless, we have to see the both side. The migration may not occurrence in that deserted time only as our elders told. There may be, so many reasons for migrations. We will try to find the reasons for this, in our next chapters.

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri.Sangom,
After reading your post no.17,I am reminded of a 'Social problem' prevailing in Mumbai.
Once I went on official trip to Mumbai with a colleague,a Maharastrian belonging to Indian Economic Service.He had earlier visited Mumbai to have training in RBI.
All the participants were advised not to go to the open ground near backwaters in
Prabhadevi(Western Railway side of DADAR).Out of curiosity all went and saw the actual position prevailing there.He was therefore anxious to show me that place.One evening
We were standing near Dadar Rly Stn(WR) at about 6 pm.WE noticed that couples
(could be really married or otherwise) going to the open ground near backwaters.
My colleague told me that by 6.30 pm the ground will be fully occupied and late comers have to wait for their turn(as it is to happen in Matunga mess in 1960s).
I do not remember the correct year.It could be 1985 or so.

Dear Shri Krishnamurthy,

I am also reminded of my years of stay in the Prabhadevi quarters of RBI. Roght from Mahim till Worli, we have the Mahim bay. Barring a small stretch opposie the Shivaji Park (where the Ambedkar Chaitya bhumi is there) the rest of the beach was, for most parts of the day, a vast latrine, a characteristic of brihanmumbai itself as one travelling by train will start sensing right after Dombivili, in those days!

After dusk, the same area would become a site for rendez-vouzs, legal and illegal. So, I don't think there was sort of late comers and queue, etc., only queue would have been among customers!

 

[shansnrmp]

An estimated figure, roughly before two decades says that the U.S.A. takes 600000 new immigrants every year that are about twice the number accepted by all the countries of the world combined. The majority of these immigrants 10,000 are Tamils. As I told in my previous thread # 35 the migration might take only, when seeing the deserted of the last bread. Even, though this golden version applied to all, but it may not, in every time.

This following picture clearly shows Non- Asian Countries Tamil population details.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Country --- Total number of Foreign Tamils --- Areas where a majority of --- comparison with other’s
Tamils live
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. South Africa -- 1980 census 2,96000 -- Natal --- Around 37% Tamils

2. Mauritius ...... 1,00,000 -- Port Louis--- Around 25% Tamils


3. Fiji Island ........ 70,000-- Western Fiji Around 1/3 are Tamils

4. Reunion ......... 1,50,000--

5. Martinique ......... 14,000-- Fort France

6. Guaduloupe ....... 60,000-- Base there Captha

7. Guayana ....... 80,000-- Live in around 60 places

8. Seychelles......... 20,000

9. Britain ....... Around 2,50,000 (there are around 35,000 Tamils in London)

10. USA ......... Around 3,00,000. San Francisco ,New York, Washinton,Baltomore,

Greater De Laware Valley,Harrisburg,Los Angeles

11. Australia ........... 5,000 Western parts Perth city, Sydney Corentyne,Albion,Corentyne

The above particulars are based on 1980 census. (Source from Tamil University, Tanjore)

 

[kunjuppu]

siva,

please sir, i do not understand, your post re the numbers of tamils who emigrated.

we all know that we tamils have been one to forsake our tamil nadu and seek fortunes wherever and whenver opportunity knocks.

i think for the first time in my living memory, i am seeing an influx of folks from other states into tamil nadu (other than malayalis who all along have come to tamil nadu including yours truly).

i was told that there is a community of bangla deshis in coimbatore, i.t. professionals in chennai. recently i went to a few restaurants (sangeetha, saravana) and found a good portion of the waiters were from the north. the folks who served me in some retail stores were from north east india, judging from their slanting eyes.

what a nice change of scenery. we should welcome others just as much as we were welcomed and given opportunities.

யாதும் ஊரே யாவரும் கேளிர். no?

 

[shansnrmp]

siva,

please sir, i do not understand, your post re the numbers of tamils who emigrated.

we all know that we tamils have been one to forsake our tamil nadu and seek fortunes wherever and whenver opportunity knocks.

i think for the first time in my living memory, i am seeing an influx of folks from other states into tamil nadu (other than malayalis who all along have come to tamil nadu including yours truly).

i was told that there is a community of bangla deshis in coimbatore, i.t. professionals in chennai. recently i went to a few restaurants (sangeetha, saravana) and found a good portion of the waiters were from the north. the folks who served me in some retail stores were from north east india, judging from their slanting eyes.

what a nice change of scenery. we should welcome others just as much as we were welcomed and given opportunities.

யாதும் ஊரே யாவரும் கேளிர். no?

Sir the thread of Tamils was not yet completed. We have to discuss the pull and push factors for these migrations. Of course, my statistical data may be not in accurate. You have said that ‘Please sir, i do not understand your post re the numbers of Tamils who emigrated’. Will you please explain, in what you do not understand?

 

[shansnrmp]

This chat clearly shows that the USA stands the first place in attracting the people. What is the reason for this? No doubt to say that the high paid salaries and sophisticated life. While, seeing this it is the most important to know the push and pull factors to the people to migrate from their place to the other countries.There are so many factors to the migration, but it is said only few of them is more considerable.

Eventually, I do not neglect the following poem before discussing of the push and pull factors even this may not important towards to associate this thread.

NEW DELHI: In what is seen as a clear violation of protocol, former President APJ Abdul Kalam, who is exempt from security checks, was treated like an ordinary passenger and frisked by the ground staff of American airliner Continental Airlines at the Indira Gandhi International Airport (IGI) on April 24, 2009 at the insistence of the company's American boss.

Shocked by the above said news the Hydrabad based Pro, poet has out busted and write his disgruntled poem like this...

‘’பன்றிக்காச்சல் கூட சுதந்திரமாய் நுழைகிறது இங்கு
ஆனால் நம் இந்தியநாட்டின் தன்மானம்தான் பறிபோகிறது
ஏகாதிபத்திய எச்சில் நாட்டில்’’

(Even though the swain flue invaded here freely. But, ours nation self-respect have seized in that saliva imperial country)



Whenever talking about that dollar country the above said disgruntled poem dashed in my heart.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Dear Thiru.Siva,
I read that in his recent trip from USA to India,after he took his seat in the plane and the doors of the plane was in the process of closure,
the security staff insisted on reopening the gate,entered the plane and took away the shoes and jacket of Mr.Abdul Kalam(our former President) on the plea that they had forgotten to check these two in the first instance. It is a different matter that Govt of India protested
and the USA govt has since apologised.
Some Poets would have protested in the form of writing a poem.Why the people of India have not protested as a Nation in a peaceful manner.
This would have made USA Govt to think!
Ps:-Do not assume that Honey and Milk is flowing on the streets of America.All in India may be under the wrong impression that a Dollar Tree grows in the backyard of each house and one can easily pluck Dollars daily from this tree.People are working sincerely and putting really solid
Hard work here.No doubt this country is far far advanced in many respects as compared to India.The people in general are very decent,good,
courtious and well behaved.No insects inside the house except 'Pillayar Erumbu' during summer months.One need not worry about 'lizard'
in the ceiling exactly above your bed.No power cuts or shortage of water.IMO, people waste water in this country.
Today I attended a religious function 'Homam' in a house.There were large participants.Everyone was worried that fire brigade should not come as some peculiar sound started coming and most of the people ran towards a point from where the sound was coming and started fanning that point.I was remembering the showing of "shatram........ etc" to God at the time of Pooja.
Immediately all the doors and windows were opened and it became very chill.It was an unusual experience.I was wondering as to why some technology has not been developed by Indians(I mean persons who are religious and believe in God) so far to offset this problem.

 

[sangom]

in the ceiling exactly above your bed.No power cuts or shortage of water.IMO, people waste water in this country.
Today I attended a religious function 'Homam' in a house.There were large participants.Everyone was worried that fire brigade should not come as some peculiar sound started coming and most of the people ran towards a point from where the sound was coming and started fanning that point.I was remembering the showing of "shatram........ etc" to God at the time of Pooja.
Immediately all the doors and windows were opened and it became very chill.It was an unusual experience.I was wondering as to why some technology has not been developed by Indians(I mean persons who are religious and believe in God) so far to offset this problem.

BK,

It is the smoke detector. Our poojas with agarbathis, dhoopam etc., are not taken into account by US authorities who instal the smoke detectors in each flat. I only wish some authority there bans such poojas, so that our so-called religious hindus learn to live without doing any smoke-producing pooja.

 

[Raji Ram]

.............
Today I attended a religious function 'Homam' in a house.There were large participants.Everyone was worried that fire brigade should not come as some peculiar sound started coming and most of the people ran towards a point from where the sound was coming and started fanning that point...........

Dear Sir,

During our last visit to the US in 2009, my sister in law performed her

son's Seemantham function at her residence in West Virginia. There was

homam like the one we find in Arya samAj weddings. Very minimal

smoke and no one worried about the fire brigade! The sAstrigaL was

very efficient.

Regards............

 

[Raji Ram]

.........I only wish some authority there bans such poojas, so that our so-called religious hindus learn to live without doing any smoke-producing pooja.

Dear Sir,

Please do not make such wishes! Let us wish that the sAstrigaLs become

more efficient and learn methods to perform hOmams with less smoke!

Regards.........

 

[sarang]

So simple:

1. Do the homa in the kitchen after removing the range. the hood will take care of the smoke.
2. Get a stand mounted mini hood with flexible extension pipe and leave the outlet through a crack in the window.

In india domestic homa kunds are available in concrete, copper and plated metal and some with electric heater to start the fire. One must visit giri traders in mylapore to see the variety and sizes available.

Giri gets decent patrons (all castes) who are keen to buy puja material, religious literature, tamil and samskrit stotras.

It is very easy to spot NRI buyers in the crowd, especially local mom and US based daughter/dil.

 

[kunjuppu]

shan,

in a previous era, usa was so open, that a visitor could walk into the plane to say 'good bye'. now they are paranoidly fearful of terrorism. and american flag carriers are the prime targets. it is unfortunate that many innocent muslims get tagged for extra security. incidently yours truly too, when i print out my boarding pass, gets the SSSS mark on the document - meaning i get special treatment. i just grin and bear it, and give myself extra 15 minutes, and am glad, in a way, that hopefully by this method, the real culprits are prevented too.

one has to agree, with all these security measures, we have not heard of any airline hijacking for the past several years. flying is now a privilege, and not a right, as it used to be previously

re everyone wanting to live in the usa: i live in canada, a fairly prosperous country. but even we used to be amazed at how easy a material life in the usa is. life, if you have a job, is indeed easy to procur. that country is going through rough times now, and not sure, how long it will be before it pulls itself through. it eventually will.

but appears to lack the political will at this moment. all because, வரவு எட்டணா செலவு பத்தணா being followed.

the usa has several hundreds of universities and many of them have post graduate departments. most americans, shun higher studies, as it is easier to get a job, and make money. the attitude in the usa re universities, afaik, is one goes to university only out of interest. otherwise ordinary folks can make a decent living working with their hands - plumber, electrician, carpentery - all are well paying professions.

indian & chinese students form the bulk of the post graduate students, because somehow or the other, they manage to get tuition waiver and work some part time work, and get a post graduate degree, and find a job in the usa. for most indian students, usa is an adventure, to be enjoyed, and also a period of growing up, away from their parents and restrictions. they mature, become self responsible and above all learn to wean themselves away from the parental money bag.

hope this explains, somewhat, why usa is such an attraction for indian students.

also, starting a business is very easy in the usa. the banks usually give money without bribes, and governments welcome businesses, because they provide jobs. profits is encouraged. unfortunately, some people took too much liberty and caused today's problems. but then that is another looooooooong story.

 

[sangom]

Dear Sir,

Please do not make such wishes! Let us wish that the sAstrigaLs become

more efficient and learn methods to perform hOmams with less smoke!

Regards.........

Smt. Raji Ram,

Homams/havans belong to the vedic line of hinduism, which is known as poorvamimamsa. But hinduism today holds vedanta a.k.a uttara mimamsa and devotional cult in greater importance. So imho, indians in foreign countries may very well consider substituting homams with suitable alternatives like அர்ச்சனை, அபிஷேகம், etc., instead of simply insisting on homams only. Usually the bigger the homam, the more spiritually elevated feel the gullible; that is why all these சத சாமுண்டி, ஸஹஸ்ர சாமுண்டி etc., homams are so popular and crowd-pullers. Suppose some bigwig among the PIOs makes a great homam which causes a fire accident, how do you think the non-pio population and the government will react?

 

[shansnrmp]

Continue of the thread # 40...

As, I already mentioned there are so many causes to take part in migration. It said there lot eventually projected twenty-two in push and twelve in pull factors.

Let us see the push and pull factors.

PUSH FACTORS:

1. Economic hardship

2. Ruin of native industries

3. Loss of lands

4. Natural calamities like famine

5. Unemployment

6. High population explosion pressure

7. Search for more wealth through trade and commerce

8. Prestige in the home as a person with wider experience

9. Commitment to earn more and advance the welfare of one’s own family

10. Special skills qualifications

11. Social out caste (Tamilnadu caste politics

PULL FACTORS:

1.Better business facilities especially in Gret Centres of commerce and industry

2,Hospitable environment in alien countries for spreading one's own culture and religion. Which includes friendly political climate

3.Availability of opportunities at the point of destination (better prospects)

4.Better employment opportunities e.g. presence of friend or relative which enables the migrant get jobs or to start business or special assistance or subsidies which aid him etc

5.Brain encouraging environment

So far we have seen the above said factors in this part and it has understood that we the people of India have much seeks the better opportunities in the other countries especially in USA.

While, furnishing this to my beloved readers I want to remain some pleasant and loveliness facts in Indo-Russian (Ussr) relationship.

By Sivashanmugam.

Recourses: Tamil University.Tanjore. *Push and Pull Factors

 

[kunjuppu]

dear,

siva,

are you a fellow traveller wow!! please tell us about the great russian bear!

 

[tbs]

Dear Sir,

Please do not make such wishes! Let us wish that the sAstrigaLs become

more efficient and learn methods to perform hOmams with less smoke!

Regards.........

hi RR madam,
we do homam regularly in USA....there is no problem with smoke detector....even we had wedding homams in Five star hotels...

no problem of smoke....we have smokeless wood in USA....there are homams every week ends in USA .....IF THERE IS WILL

THERE IS A WAY.....NO PROBLEM IN USA TOO....