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Can Tamil Brahmins be bold to disclose their identity in public?

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Hi Renukka:

You just don't know who EVR was... He was one FEARLESS Social Reformer... before his fiery speeches, everyone wilted....

Nobody had the guts to speak a word against him...because he was for the oppressed and down-trodden...he was riling against the Upper Caste Anarchy....

You don't find such leaders these days.... Even if you go before him with your guns... they will fail to shoot...

That was the fervor and energy that EVR generated!

Younger generation must read their history well...


the day when all the so-called "atheists" and "reformers" (including Kamal hasan) take on every religion and not just on one particular community - brahmans, they will all be called as just one thing - "opportunists".

the only reason they can go untouched is because Brahmans never say / do anything back.

until then, all this talk of them being great X and great Y are just bul**hits.

and what is the meaning of "nobody has guts to speak against him" ? when did u become the person to decide on the guts of others ?

He / his followers should have first shown their guts by taking on the traditional practices of < every > religion instead of targetting brahmans alone - to even prove their neutrality.
 
Wow the guns wont shoot? hey like some scene from a Vijaykanth's movie.
Remember this scene where Raghuvaran will be telling his army officers that the bullet to kill Vijaykanth has not been made yet.

Cheers!!!

The comments you replied to Renu - Those were the kind of comments which created a "Ghodse".
 
Wow the guns wont shoot? hey like some scene from a Vijaykanth's movie.
Remember this scene where Raghuvaran will be telling his army officers that the bullet to kill Vijaykanth has not been made yet.

Cheers!!!

Yes! Believe me.... you have not been to EVR's Meetings... to witness the energy level in the throngs of people overflowing all the roads and maidans!

Bullets are for FEARFUL.....

EVR never bothered of bullets and pattakathis.... bullets and knives would shiver and backfire on you!! LOL...

His tongue was sharper and faster than bullets and pattakathis....

Those were the days of Popular Upraising! Against Social Injustice! What EVR started is still reverberating in TN:

Dravidian Ideology and Tamil Nationalism.... which is even fully practiced by the current CM J Jaya, the Agno-Theist!

Read the history books... stop watching Vijayakanth's movies..... for a CHANGE... LOL.

Cheers.
 
EVR said all tamilians are fools and uncivilized brutes and the british must rule for ever. His chela MK calls all tamilians as 'sothu pindam'; today EVR can be charged for inciting violence! All the dravidians parties care a hoot for EVR; garlanding his statue on his birth/death days is all the respect he gets!!

Some of his speeches and outbursts will be deleted when collected works of EVR are published. They are not only embarrassing but abusive of his followers!
 
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Ghodse may be your hero!

Worship him.... he will never get you any respect anywhere!

perhaps we have to discuss Gandhi's merits and demerits and godse's statement in court in a separate thread. Without offering any opinion or comment, the whole discussion can be done with gandhi's writings and actions alone.
 
My answer in bold letters below:

the day when all the so-called "atheists" and "reformers" (including Kamal hasan) take on every religion and not just on one particular community - brahmans, they will all be called as just one thing - "opportunists".

the only reason they can go untouched is because Brahmans never say / do anything back.

Brahmans never say / do anything back because they KNEW their history... many repent... are remorseful

until then, all this talk of them being great X and great Y are just bul**hits.

You have not seen EVR or K Kamaraj - the leaders who made a difference in the Society! For you, it's all ancient history! What you know is "Bul**hiting" - You don't know your history. Read it, please.

and what is the meaning of "nobody has guts to speak against him" ? when did u become the person to decide on the guts of others ?

Know your history! Who spoke against EVR and his Causes? Most of the Brahmins were (are) running for a cover - they were ashamed of what they had done to the Society in the name of Caste Hierarchy!

He / his followers should have first shown their guts by taking on the traditional practices of < every > religion instead of targetting brahmans alone - to even prove their neutrality.

You have to introspect, if you can, to understand how vile and venal the Oppressive Caste Hierarchy was, and how rest of the Society was suffering for at least 500 years, if not more!

The concept of Neutrality is an obsolete idea before the Brahmin-Dominated Caste Hierarchy that dominated the Society for so long!

Whatever goes around comes around... Justice is what EVR was fighting for.... Know your history.
 
:) who else will pat the brahmin's back but brahmins themselves ....


as far as i know ,there are a lot of non brahmans friends of mine who ve positive things to say about brahmans.

Renu Ji here is a NB , still has a positive view about Brahmans contribution to the society. And there are a good few others there too.


but how will a negative minded pessimistic personality ever allow others to say anything positive ?

i would love to see the balls of a few here, trying to go to a Christian / Islamic forum , and try slagging them off or telling them things like " who else would praise you people" - directly.

It is only because brahmans are soft and non violent - that a few like you can say what ever you like and still roam around freely.

I even wonder if anybody bothered deleting your post where you called all the Brahmans as "superiority minded" high headed people.
 
Brahmans never say / do anything back because they KNEW their history... many repent... are remorseful


Oh SHUT UP Mr. I am the Brahman here - and i know more about my history than You. Me Remorseful ? Dont you go talking as if you know more about what i feel than myself.

What you know is "Bul**hiting" - You don't know your history.

Yeah, what i know are people like you who spend their life in trying to slag my community off / paint a negative picture. You are right, there - What i know is Bul**hit.

Most of the Brahmins were (are) running for a cover - they were ashamed of what they had done to the Society in the name of Caste Hierarchy.


I should be ashamed of myself ? I know wht i should be feeling like and i dont want people telling me what to do - I can easily say that people like you should be ashamed of urself for a thousand things in your life - I at least dont go off slagging others as the life's aim.


not reading any of ur posts any further from hereon ...
 
Brahmans never say / do anything back because they KNEW their history... many repent... are remorseful


Oh SHUT UP Mr. I am the Brahman here - and i know more about my history than You. Me Remorseful ? Dont you go talking as if you know more about what i feel than myself.

"You may be a small minority not knowing the whole history"

What you know is "Bul**hiting" - You don't know your history.

Yeah, what i know are people like you who spend their life in trying to slag my community off / paint a negative picture. You are right, there - What i know is Bul**hit.

"Yes.. agree to the basic FACT in your life"

Most of the Brahmins were (are) running for a cover - they were ashamed of what they had done to the Society in the name of Caste Hierarchy.


I should be ashamed of myself ? I know wht i should be feeling like and i dont want people telling me what to do - I can easily say that people like you should be ashamed of urself for a thousand things in your life - I at least dont go off slagging others as the life's aim.


not reading any of ur posts any further from hereon ...

Not my loss! If you want to learn anything useful, then read my posts! Lol...
 
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My response in bold letters below:

as far as i know ,there are a lot of non brahmans friends of mine who ve positive things to say about brahmans.

Your world, is perhaps, very small!

Renu Ji here is a NB , still has a positive view about Brahmans contribution to the society. And there are a good few others there too.

Brahmans did so many things to the Society... including the Architects of Hinduism and Caste Hierarchy! That's the historical fact, which you want to ignore, conveniently!


but how will a negative minded pessimistic personality ever allow others to say anything positive ?

i would love to see the balls of a few here, trying to go to a Christian / Islamic forum , and try slagging them off or telling them things like " who else would praise you people" - directly.

Atheists go everywhere and ARE telling the TRUTH... that MAN created Gods, Ghosts and Religions.....

It is only because brahmans are soft and non violent - that a few like you can say what ever you like and still roam around freely.

I even wonder if anybody bothered deleting your post where you called all the Brahmans as "superiority minded" high headed people.

There are still some brahmans "Superiority minded high headed people" in this early 21st Century! That's the problem!!
 
Yes! Believe me.... you have not been to EVR's Meetings... to witness the energy level in the throngs of people overflowing all the roads and maidans!

Bullets are for FEARFUL.....

EVR never bothered of bullets and pattakathis.... bullets and knives would shiver and backfire on you!! LOL...

His tongue was sharper and faster than bullets and pattakathis....

Those were the days of Popular Upraising! Against Social Injustice! What EVR started is still reverberating in TN:

Dravidian Ideology and Tamil Nationalism.... which is even fully practiced by the current CM J Jaya, the Agno-Theist!

Read the history books... stop watching Vijayakanth's movies..... for a CHANGE... LOL.

Cheers.

Dear Yamaka,

Dont you know we Indians love to talk? That any Indian can come tops.Just give any Indian a microphone and get a few people to shout Thalaivar Vazgha!!! any speech will be fiery.

Wow so I guess EVR speech could be recorded on the Richter Scale?

BTW: I cant quit watching Vijaykanth's movies..its too good esp the gravity defying fight scenes and his ability to move faster then a speeding bullet, more powerful then a locomotive,able to leap tall buildings in a single bounce,its a bird..its a plane..No its Vijaykanth!!!
wait a sec..OMG wrong movie..i was watching Superman!!!
 
:) who else will pat the brahmin's back but brahmins themselves ....

Yeah, when all others are hell bent on thrashing brahmins (taking the help of some 'properly oriented' brahmins themselves) who else will pat them? Well said. We too have seen here in this forum itself people forming mutual back-slapping syndicates to bash and thrash brahmins and thus proving that they are brahmins indeed!!
 
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This recent incident in tamilnadu assembly has gone unnoticed.

Jayalalitha has sacked most of the executive officers (proclaimed atheists) in tamilnadu temples. When a communist member said (in the assembly) that atheists and non-believers can be appointed if they are good administrators. Minister Panneerselvam asked the member whether his communist party will accept one who is totally against the communist ideology as a basic member or in the politbureau? The discussion stopped there.
 
1. Periyar's life was an open book. So he is great.

A pornographic magazine can also be an open book. So it is great and all must read it without bothering about the content.


2. Periyar was a great atheist propogating atheism in the midst of tamils. So he is great.

Periyar's atheism was a convenient shirt he wore. His atheism never applied itself to Allah or Jesus. It restricted itself to Hindu gods only. This pseudo atheist is great indeed.


3. Periyar achieved great things in Congress. Yet he was denied his share of appreciation. So he rebelled and started justice party against brahmins.

Periyar worked as a congress man as long as he was in congress and thought he can hijack the party to promote his and his friends' feudal interests. There were other great giants in the party who understood this and periyar was neutralised. The hurt ego of periyar made him see in brahmins his villains. Till date no one knows what great things achieved by congress can be called the contributions of periyar.

4. Periyar was transparently honest and so a great leader.

Read history. Periyar's vituperative outpourings against Hindi are well known. What is not so well known is that he helped by letting his house in Erode to be used for a very nominal rent to be run as a hindi teaching centre. He did this with the intention to promote hindi among the people. What a hypocrisy.

These are just samples. I can give more. There are many more. I have a book full of them.
 
slag my community off / paint a negative picture.

Shri niyengaar,

Which dictionary says "slagging off" means "painting a negative picture"? Interested to know because my search reveals that Slag means The scum formed by oxidation at the surface of molten metals, [Brit, offensive] (informal) a promiscuous woman, Stony waste matter, or material of similar appearance "a slag heap", Convert into slag.
 
...Which dictionary says "slagging off" means "painting a negative picture"? .
I was also puzzled with this word, looked it up thinking I was missing something. Perhaps it is just a slang among the youngsters in New Delhi to mean painting a negative picture.

Cheers!
 
Shri niyengaar,

Which dictionary says "slagging off" means "painting a negative picture"? Interested to know because my search reveals that Slag means The scum formed by oxidation at the surface of molten metals, [Brit, offensive] (informal) a promiscuous woman, Stony waste matter, or material of similar appearance "a slag heap", Convert into slag.

sangom sir,

you gave a chance to recollect my +2 pedagogues.

Noun of slag : my 11th std chemistry teacher said, the white patch we find on our house hold silver vessels as slag. little advanced, froth flotation process, the oxides floating on top of molten metal to be called as slag.. its a noun

Verb of slag : i learned that at 8th std itself, in the hockey ground. the opponents were always called as slag.. that slag, pushed me out by arms, and took my ball to hit that goal..

our class leader who spy us to the teacher by default was called as Mr.slag.

i think, the posted used it as verb..
 
namaste.

I too was initially puzzled by the word 'slagging' but understood that niyengaar perhaps meant 'shagging' in the meaning of 'making something shaggy or rough'--not in the meaning it is used in American slang today. I prefer the word 'trashing'.
 
Can Tamil Brahmins be bold to disclose their identity in public? is the question and title of this thread. Who else than a brahmin have the guts to do that? Please read this: Recently there had been a news item that a few of the assassins of Rajiv Gandhi are to be hanged soon as per the judgment handed down by Courts. There was an orchestrated political campaign by a section of the people to save them from the gallows. While the common man thinks that there is no reason to reduce the punishment to any of the assassins, the media were fairely dominated by the save assassins group and they presented their case with much gusto. While every one who thought that the assassins did not deserve any remission like any other killer in the country they were not coming out with their views for obvious reasons. This included all the dravidian daredevils and 'courageous' and 'bold' tamil leaders in Congress etc parties, who are not brahmins. Their voice was muted. But there came a brahmin by name Subramanian swamy who boldly and courageously expressed his views that were challenging the vociferous partisan outfits. Is he not bold? This is just one example. Subramanian swamy's views may not be agreeable to some people here. But the fact that he expressed them is what is important. I can give many other examples of courageous brahmins if any one asks for them. When I read Swamy's views as a news item I recalled these lines of Rudyard Kipling:

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream and not make dreams your master;
If you can think and not make thoughts your aim,
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you have spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to , broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn out tools;

................................................................
................................................................

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings-nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And--which is more--you will be a Man, my son!
 
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Can Tamil Brahmins be bold to disclose their identity in public? is the question and title of this thread. Who else than a brahmin have the guts to do that? Please read this: Recently there had been a news item that a few of the assassins of Rajiv Gandhi are to be hanged soon as per the judgment handed down by Courts. There was an orchestrated political campaign by a section of the people to save them from the gallows. While the common man thinks that there is no reason to reduce the punishment to any of the assassins, the media were fairely dominated by the save assassins group and they presented their case with much gusto. While every one who thought that the assassins did not deserve any remission like any other killer in the country they were not coming out with their views for obvious reasons. This included all the dravidian daredevils and 'courageous' and 'bold' tamil leaders in Congress etc parties, who are not brahmins. Their voice was muted. But there came a brahmin by name Subramanian swamy who boldly and courageously expressed his views that were challenging the vociferous partisan outfits. Is he not bold? This is just one example. Subramanian swamy's views may not be agreeable to some people here. But the fact that he expressed them is what is important. I can give many other examples of courageous brahmins if any one asks for them. When I read Swamy's views as a news item I recalled these lines of Rudyard Kipling:

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream and not make dreams your master;
If you can think and not make thoughts your aim,
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you have spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to , broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn out tools;

................................................................
................................................................

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings-nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And--which is more--you will be a Man, my son!

Dear Raju:

Let's recall. Why this Thread "Can Tamil Brahmins be bold to disclose their identity in public" got started?

Perhaps, the starter of this Thread had in his mind an annoying answer hiding in him "No, TBs can't be bold to disclose their identity in public".

You answered it by bringing the most controversial political opportunistic person named Subramani Swamy! As the leader of the Janata Party Sub Swamy has no standing among the masses.

And on the most controversial topic of hanging the assassins!!

I am afraid you have muddied the water further!

Can you focus on the Qn, and give YOUR considered reply?

Cheers.

ps. On the issue of hanging the assassins, I fault the TN High Court - they should not have accepted their plea petition AT this point in time... the matter has been thoroughly adjudicated and the President has rejected their Pardon Plea, and thus the matter is closed.. What TN Assembly did is mischievous, and is unwarranted... I feel the TN High Court should reject the petition immediately, and allow the HANGING to proceed as planned, IMO.
 
ps. On the issue of hanging the assassins, I fault the TN High Court - they should not have accepted their plea petition AT this point in time... the matter has been thoroughly adjudicated and the President has rejected their Pardon Plea, and thus the matter is closed.. What TN Assembly did is mischievous, and is unwarranted... I feel the TN High Court should reject the petition immediately, and allow the HANGING to proceed as planned, IMO.

Shri Y,

You may also be aware, much more than I am, about the Tamil sentiment that strides across the gulf of Mannar. So, the Madras High Court also toed the Tamil sentiments line because it does not stand to lose that way. Probably JJ also will sing the same tune, if she has not already done so.
 
Mr.Yamaka in #32 said:

Know your history! Who spoke against EVR and his Causes? Most of the Brahmins were (are) running for a cover - they were ashamed of what they had done to the Society in the name of Caste Hierarchy!

This reveals profound ignorance of truth and history. What is attempted here is to make out (1) that brahmins were cowards who were too scared of Periyar and so did not even speak out against his views.(2) that others (other than brahmins) were very bold and did speak against the views of periyar.(3) that brahmins were ashamed of what they did to the society in the name of caste. A careful reading of history will reveal that none of this is true. (1) Brahmins did speak against periyar. In fact their arguments against periyar’s views were so strong that periyar who was unable to meet their arguments word for word had to resort to physical violence and terror to cow down brahmins. Kudumi and poonool cutting were well known episodes which stand testimony to his desperation and helplessness. (2) No other caste leaders spoke against periyar openly because they too shared his hatred for brahmins and were envious of their resourcefulness. (3) Brahmins were and are clear in their mind that they were not the ones responsible for casteism in Hindu society. So there was and there is no shame or regret. Rather they are angry that the middle castes who were the worst casteists are today masquerading as champions of social justice.

You have to introspect, if you can, to understand how vile and venal the Oppressive Caste Hierarchy was, and how rest of the Society was suffering for at least 500 years, if not more!

It is not brahmins who have to intraspect. It is the other dominant middle castes who have to do that. The atrocities which they have perpetrated against the dalits has no equal anywhere elswe in the world. Even if they become the slaves of dalits by an official decree for the next hundred years the compensation would be inadequate and justice would still have been not done.

The concept of Neutrality is an obsolete idea before the Brahmin-Dominated Caste Hierarchy that dominated the Society for so long!Whatever goes around comes around... Justice is what EVR was fighting for.... Know your history.

The society was not brahmin dominated. It was dominated by every one above dalits in the caste totem pole. It appears what went around did not come back in the case of the middle castes. Rather it has come back loaded with goodies called reservations.

In #36 Yamaka said:

Brahmans did so many things to the Society... including the Architects of Hinduism and Caste Hierarchy! That's the historical fact, which you want to ignore, conveniently!

Again what brahmins did is nothing when compared to what the powerful middle castes did to dalits. In my village raping dalit women prevalent to such an extent that by looking at the facial features of them you can tell who is the offspring of who. Brahmins never did this. In my village any number of dalits have lost their life’s savings which they sent from the distant army cantonments because the lands have been simply grabbed by the powerful middle castes. It is a long and sad tale of woes. So the history spoken of here is what middle castes would like us to believe and not the real history. It would be better if Mr. Yamaka learns his history from the beginning in a proper way after throwing inot the dustbin whatever cock and bull stories he has been told by periyar and his kaiththadis.

Brahmans did so many things to the Society... including the Architects of Hinduism and Caste Hierarchy! That's the historical fact, which you want to ignore, conveniently!

I repeat that (1) it is an insult to the innate intelligence of the common indian to believe and say that he was a puppet in the hands of a small microscopic minority.(2) That it is a stupid argument to say that the large majority of middle castes who enjoyed every benefit(they owned the entire agricultural resources and dominated villages, they owned trade and ruled the country) that accrued from the caste system were innocent angels and had no share at all in the design of caste system. It flies in the face of common sense and pracatical wisdom of any one. So this argument has no substance and has to be discarded in the dustbin.

Atheists go everywhere and ARE telling the TRUTH... that MAN created Gods, Ghosts and Religions.....

We are unable to control laughing at this statement. We all (this includes Mr. Yamaka) know that DK volunteers had visited many churches and mosques in Tamilnadu and had propogated their atheism and successfully converted many and have come out unscathed from every such church and mosque. Cowards of the first order!! They need the safety of a crowd to even touch the non-violent brahmins poonool/kudumi .
 
Dear Raju:

Let's recall. Why this Thread "Can Tamil Brahmins be bold to disclose their identity in public" got started?

Perhaps, the starter of this Thread had in his mind an annoying answer hiding in him "No, TBs can't be bold to disclose their identity in public".

You answered it by bringing the most controversial political opportunistic person named Subramani Swamy! As the leader of the Janata Party Sub Swamy has no standing among the masses.

And on the most controversial topic of hanging the assassins!!

I am afraid you have muddied the water further!

Can you focus on the Qn, and give YOUR considered reply?

Cheers.

ps. On the issue of hanging the assassins, I fault the TN High Court - they should not have accepted their plea petition AT this point in time... the matter has been thoroughly adjudicated and the President has rejected their Pardon Plea, and thus the matter is closed.. What TN Assembly did is mischievous, and is unwarranted... I feel the TN High Court should reject the petition immediately, and allow the HANGING to proceed as planned, IMO.

Dear Mr. Yamaka,

I said I appreciate the guts and courage of Subramanian Swamy without commenting about his political leanings. The fact, as pointed out by you, that he is a loner adds weight to the fact that he is couragesous as against the paper tigers of kazhagams who need crowds to take cover. So my words stand. This thread is about whether brahmins are brave, courageous etc or not. Swamy is a brahmin. He is extraordinarily brave, courageous etc., So my post is very much relevant to the context. QED. If you can please try to remain focussed and answer my points on merit we can save time and energy. I appreciate your courage on expressing your views about the assassins. But remember you live in US and Mr. Swamy lives in MADURAI.

Cheers.
 
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Who Was Erode V. Ramasamy - The Periyar of Tamils?

A Larger than Life Personality who dominated TN politics since 1930s -

Some historical FACTS as mentioned in Wiki:

"Periyar propagated the principles of rationalism, self-respect, women’s rights and eradication of caste. He opposed theexploitation and marginalisation of the non-Brahmin indigenous Dravidian peoples of South India and the imposition of, what he considered, Indo-Aryan India. His work has greatly revolutionised Tamil society and has significantly removed caste-based discrimination."


"The citation awarded by the UNESCO described Periyar as "the prophet of the new age, the Socrates of South East Asia, father of social reform movement and arch enemy of ignorance, superstitions, meaningless customs and base manners".

Granted, Periyar was an Arch-Enemy of the Upper Caste in India!
 
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