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Broken heart of my sister

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Govinda,

I know Shri KRS has warned you and others as well.

However, since you made claims which imo are erroneous, am expecting a reply from you, for posts # 40 and 41, with evidence to substantiate your claims. Otherwise please admit you are wrong.

It is rather lame to blame 'dravidian NBs' as though they stopped supporting TBs (due to which TBs had to seek colonial jobs). Nobody is preventing you from taking up a temple job even today. Kindly stop blaming so-called 'dravidian NBs' for your own ambitions with regard to secular education/jobs/prospects.

Also, i wish KRS sir had warned you also not to inflame passions. Instead of saying
"I am warning others not to inflame passions. Let us stick to the intention of why this thread was started".

I would be glad to stick to the intention of the thread, provided posters like Govinda also did. Maybe to some certain folks, phrases like converting to "Brahminhood for their honesty and dedication" is not inflammatory. But to some it is indeed inflammatory. I would like Govinda to clarify how honesty and dedication belongs to 'brahminhood', and where do others stand in this?

As for the rest of your claims, Govinda, please do clarify and substantiate them with evidence, so that we may know your side of the story. If not in this thread, then in a new thread or over PMs (please send me a PM and indicate which you find a better option -- PMs or a new thread). Either way, am not quite willing to let this pass without clarifications from your end.

Regards.
 
Are youngsters not understanding their responsibilities & are they turning wayward...I am looking forward for some meaningful discussion...What are the ways to alleviate the sufferings of my sister & her close relatives..

It is o.k for youngsters to get passionate about simple/silly things. But, only the parents are the most affected. These kids would choose someone they like and then would simple convince the parents and who would be singing la-la tunes and watching Bhagyaraj movies with their family. It is o.k for the secular kind.

There are religious/spiritual people, who are convinced by their kids (selfishness and crazy decisions) and in one case, the parents were blabbering 'Universal Love' and look confused and in depression while their grand-kid was happily named 'Jesus'. In such cases, the kids should accept their folly/affairs and be understanding and bold to ask the parents to continue/resort to their own spiritual ways, and not be attached as before. It would be really responsible and compassionate, if the kids let their parents continue their spiritual life. This should also be the case, even otherwise, the old-parents should focus on their own spiritual welfare rather than baby-sit their grand kids through their independent/capable children and the children are responsible for providing such atmosphere atleast as a pay-back if not through realization.
 
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@vgane

After all this heat and dust, please tell us what happened after the event?

1. Have the boy's family accepted and welcomed the girl?
2. Are they living with the boy's parents or in 'tanikuduthanam'?
3. Are they highly individualistic and practise their own customs and traditions?
4. Are they happy and come out mentally strong after this ordeal which affects some people more than themselves?
5. Do they feel that they have been hasty and now prefer to have waited a little longer?

To one and all who felt that my comment is heartless - thanks.

The main grievance expressed in the OP about the convent educated, employed graduate (an adult who is holding a job!) is about eloping with a NB. It is all about a brahmin girl loving a NB boy! And asking for suggestions to nip it in the bud in the future! This is the mentality still in this 21st century! Brahmins want convent education, secular job, practice their religious activities like sandhyavandhan etc according to their time comforts but still claim to be 'brahmins' and despise their girl marrying a boy just because he is a NB!

கூழுக்கும் ஆசை மீசைக்கும் ஆசை
 
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But you are giving wrong injections and wrong medicines. There is a general consensus on moral, ethical and environmental degradation. Do you want everyone to jump into the turbid stream and get coated with what you know what!

Shri sarang,

I should thank you because my comments appeared silly and so not deserving any "hurt". That is good; there are some nurses/doctors whose injections do not generate pain even in young children;).

That said, water is flowing down forcefully down the Har ki pauri and one cannot take bath in the same river again, as Buddha said. So, instead of clutching adamantly on to some perceived value systems, it may be better for young people like you to look around, see the way the times are a-changing, and decide whether one would like to be last as history takes shape.
 
However, since you made claims which imo are erroneous, am expecting a reply from you, for posts # 40 and 41, with evidence to substantiate your claims. Otherwise please admit you are wrong.

Either way, am not quite willing to let this pass without clarifications from your end.

Regards.

You are just parroting my statements and added a question/proof. I have answered for the statements made by Raghy, and given scenarios/situations. I would add a separate reply with more ref.
 
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You are just parroting my statements and added a question/proof. I have answered for the statements made by Raghy, and given scenarios/situations. I would add a separate reply with more ref.
Your post to Raghy provides no clarification. So, have questioned specific points you made to Raghy in post # 41.

I sent you a PM asking if i can make a new thread. Since you have replied this way, i take it that you want to provide a reply with references in this thread itself. Alright. I look forward to your reply.
 

renuka

Well-known member
I will give my personal opinion as a hybrid offspring of an intercaste/interstate(NB/B) marriage.

I am not bragging here but I am happy with how I turned out..I dont think that I am better or lesser than anyone else of 100% same caste.

Why does everyone think that in an intercaste marriage it spells the end of tradition and cultures?

Actually how different can any true Vedic Hindu culture get?
There might be some regional variation here and there and I just view all that difference just like how the trade name of some medication differs from country to country.

Just like how Paracetamol is is sold under the trade name Panadol here and under the name Metacin in India(when I was in India..it was called Metacin)..the raw material is still the same.


Most children of intercaste marriage turn out just fine as anyone else.
May be they might have a broader out look in life and be able to adjust well in most situations.

I differ from my brothers a bit in the sense I take the study of religion as my pet subject and take lots of measures to increase my knowledge in it.
In each family all siblings are not the same.
One of my brothers loves to do deep research into religion and Stephen Knapp is his idol...some what a history buff.

So I dont feel in anyway that the intercaste blood in me made me lesser of a Hindu.
I haven't lost any culture or religion in me..I can only say that I gained cos I am a more of an Indian.

So give anyone a chance..As a Hindu who doesnt miss her prayers,pure veg(vegan now),crazy about Sanskrit and the study of religious text I dont think my intercaste status made me lose out in life.

This is just my honest opinion I thought I will share with everyone that nothing is really lost in an intercaste marriage.
 
I will give my personal opinion as a hybrid offspring of an intercaste/interstate(NB/B) marriage.

I am not bragging here but I am happy with how I turned out..I dont think that I am better or lesser than anyone else of 100% same caste.

Why does everyone think that in an intercaste marriage it spells the end of tradition and cultures?

Actually how different can any true Vedic Hindu culture get?
There might be some regional variation here and there and I just view all that difference just like how the trade name of some medication differs from country to country.

Just like how Paracetamol is is sold under the trade name Panadol here and under the name Metacin in India(when I was in India..it was called Metacin)..the raw material is still the same.


Most children of intercaste marriage turn out just fine as anyone else.
May be they might have a broader out look in life and be able to adjust well in most situations.

I differ from my brothers a bit in the sense I take the study of religion as my pet subject and take lots of measures to increase my knowledge in it.
In each family all siblings are not the same.
One of my brothers loves to do deep research into religion and Stephen Knapp is his idol...some what a history buff.

So I dont feel in anyway that the intercaste blood in me made me lesser of a Hindu.
I haven't lost any culture or religion in me..I can only say that I gained cos I am a more of an Indian.

So give anyone a chance..As a Hindu who doesnt miss her prayers,pure veg(vegan now),crazy about Sanskrit and the study of religious text I dont think my intercaste status made me lose out in life.

This is just my honest opinion I thought I will share with everyone that nothing is really lost in an intercaste marriage.

Well said, dear Renuka!!

Yes, nothing is lost in an intercaste marriage, provided the ic couple have the right mental make up to live with each other. But, IMO, it is so, as for as the couple in question are concerned.

Though law allows boys and girls to decide independently and get married after certain age, still they are too young for the parents to digest what they do (eloping and marrying).

The thoughts and attitude of young boys and girls have changed/ are changing too fast that they are least bothered of their parents values, sentiments, emotions etc. They need to explore, experience and enjoy everything ASAP and want to feel contented.

Yours is a arranged ic marriage, so no issues in all the aspects. But, how painful it is for parents / widowed mother to see their son/daughter eloping with his/her partner at a young age.

The world and the people living in are going crazy and each one want to see how best they could get what they want and how soon. No time and patience to think, reailize and act considering parent's advices, suggestions, guidance, feelings and emotions.

There are hell lots of incidents taking place in our society similar to the incident narrated in OP. Many such things gonna happen in future. I came accross two stories of B girls who ran away from marriage hall, a day before the ceremony of tying the nuptial knot. Parent's have to just beat their chest and shed tears.

 
Your post to Raghy provides no clarification. So, have questioned specific points you made to Raghy in post # 41.

I sent you a PM asking if i can make a new thread. Since you have replied this way, i take it that you want to provide a reply with references in this thread itself. Alright. I look forward to your reply.

HH:
Werent u the one who once told me this?
i meant am not speaking to sangom sir on the topic anymore. you need not ask for clarification on sangom sir's behalf.
 
I think everyone involved including the groom SHOULD feel happy that

she vanished before the tying of the sacred knot!

What is she had left the day after ???





Well said, dear Renuka!!

Yes, nothing is lost in an intercaste marriage, provided the ic couple have the right mental make up to live with each other. But, IMO, it is so, as for as the couple in question are concerned.

Though law allows boys and girls to decide independently and get married after certain age, still they are too young for the parents to digest what they do (eloping and marrying).

The thoughts and attitude of young boys and girls have changed/ are changing too fast that they are least bothered of their parents values, sentiments, emotions etc. They need to explore, experience and enjoy everything ASAP and want to feel contented.

Yours is a arranged ic marriage, so no issues in all the aspects. But, how painful it is for parents / widowed mother to see their son/daughter eloping with his/her partner at a young age.

The world and the people living in are going crazy and each one want to see how best they could get what they want and how soon. No time and patience to think, reailize and act considering parent's advices, suggestions, guidance, feelings and emotions.

There are hell lots of incidents taking place in our society similar to the incident narrated in OP. Many such things gonna happen in future. I came accross two stories of B girls who ran away from marriage hall, a day before the ceremony of tying the nuptial knot. Parent's have to just beat their chest and shed tears.

 
When both sides are adamant and not pliable at all

there will be a 'break' and not a 'bend' obviously.

We must know our children well enough as to

whether they will give in to our demands

or we have to give in to their demands in order to retain them.

Otherwise the breast beating and wailing is sure to continue.

I am sure the girls who left so boldly must have spoken about it to

their parents and it fell on deaf ears. I am NOT justifying the actions of

the girls but the parents must be realistic enough to understand

and brave enough to face the situation.
 
The children NEED us when they are young

and we NEED them when we are old.

In other words, we need our grown up children

much more than they need us oldies.
It is time to wake up to the reality!
:horn:
 
There is a right way of doing things. And a wrong way. IMHO eloping is the wrong way. As someone with parents i can't imagine how/why anyone would put their parents through such a thing. There is always room to sit down, discuss and come to an amicable solution with some persistence. Never say never as Shri K always says :)
 

prasad1

Active member
Dear Sri Prasad1 Ji,

I am very aware of the different modes/tools that I have to moderate with. When I go public, it is for a reason.

It has been a while where moderation has to intervene.
By the way, there is another rule. If you have an issue with any moderation, please send a PM. This sort of questioning tends to create cliques in the Forum. Thank you.

Regards,
KRS

Dear Sri Govinda Ji,

Sowbhagyavathi Valli Ji made a tongue in cheek comment. Please do not overreact.

You can not call her 'racist' based on facts. Please withdraw that statement. If you do not, there will be consequences. You can disagree with her views, but you are not allowed to label anyone in this Forum.

I am warning others not to inflame passions. Let us stick to the intention of why this thread was started.

Regards,
KRS

Sir.KRS,
you as moderator have every right to ask a person for retraction, probably you could have done it in PM.

The original post (assuming it was real) was a cry for help. Valli's comment given her previous posts was not in good taste. Instead of giving constructive suggestion she poked fun at VGANE, and thought it was funny. So others jumped and condemned her post as it was misguided.

No harm done, apology has been extended.
:tea:
 
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dear little girl!

But the talk does not serve any useful purpose - as each one is

holding on tight to her / his opinion and no one is wiling to

compromise.

All drastic steps are taken in utter despair and terrible fear which

makes the person temporarily blind and dumb.



There is a right way of doing things. And a wrong way. IMHO eloping is the wrong way. As someone with parents i can't imagine how/why anyone would put their parents through such a thing. There is always room to sit down, discuss and come to an amicable solution with some persistence. Never say never as Shri K always says :)
 

prasad1

Active member
My sister's husband passed away a year back...My sister has 2 daughters...First one married in community & settled...Yesterday we got a terrible news that my second daughter of my sister (niece)who is just 22 years, convent educated, a employed graduate has run away with a NB
Let us stop and analyze this statement.
Why did they run away? Was there a break in communication?
You continue
My sister tried her best to stop the relation for the past 6 months...My sister's [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]family[/FONT][/FONT] was middle class and conservative...My sister is battered...She is in tears and is unconsolable...What do we do
Why did your sister try to stop it? Why did she not accept it and support her daughter. I accept that there will be social pressures, but it is better to loose your so called "friends", and gain a son-in-law.
IMO I would try to find out the strength of the relationship between boy and the girl, If they are committed I would support my child. (but I live in USA).
I would have the courage to stand up to anyone for the sake of my child.

Does this mean we have to be helpless and act as spineless cowards...Does it mean that our society is very weak morally & is on the verge of collapse...Where are we going...

This part makes no sense to me.
If you want vigilante justice you can follow Ms. Valli's suggestion. So you can come out looking strong (or the local thug).
What society are you talking about? I am not on the same page as you are.

What are the ways to alleviate the sufferings of my sister & her close relatives...What is the way forward for our community so that such instances are nipped in bud...

Only way I see is, to accept the reality. Advice the children, lead by example, have a conversation going with the children, then accept and support their decision. If they make a mistake, welcome them back, dust them, wipe their tears, and put them back on their feet. There is no guarantee that they will not fall again.
 
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The children NEED us when they are young

and we NEED them when we are old.

In other words, we need our grown up children

much more than they need us oldies.
It is time to wake up to the reality!
:horn:

Smt. Visalakshi Ramani,

I am glad to note that you as a old mother/grand mother have openly expressed the realistic need of old parents who all require their grown up children to look after them with love and care.


Todays guys ang gals know this very well and as such require their parents to accept their every decision, most probably. If parents wake up (as you have stated in your post #62), may be they can expect their son/daughter to care them if they don't oppose what & how their grown up children do, with all their legal rights.
 
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Only way I see is, to accept the reality. Advice the children, lead by example, have a conversation going with the children, then accept and support their decision. If they make a mistake, welcome them back, dust them, wipe their tears, and put them back on their feet. There is no guarantee that they will not fall again.


You are right, Shri Prasad.

The only sollution for the parents to be happy, cheerful and at peace is to not to bother as whom their children choose as their life partner except guiding them to recognize the right personality of their chosen boy/girl, IMO.

With uncertainities in the success of both love and arranged marriages, parents can just leave their children with whom they want for their life, with all their intelligent rational brain and love in heart.

 

kunjuppu

Active member
I think everyone involved including the groom SHOULD feel happy that

she vanished before the tying of the sacred knot!

What is she had left the day after ???

absolutely visa.. the girl would have ruined two lives - hers and the grooms'. all thanks to lack of communication between the girl and her parents.

it happened to my own nephew. the guy was working in mumbai, and they had arranged a girl in hyderabad. every month, he used to come one weekend to spend with her, and after the 3rd visit - she told him, that she had someone else in mind. she was so scared of her parents that she had not told them.

my poor nephew, being also extremely kind and gentle, first of all, thanked her for telling this before the marriage, as the invitations had not gone out. next, he volunteered to go to the girls' parents, with his mother, and explain the situation, and gently but forcefully make them agree, to consider the other case - atleast from evaluation viewpoint, before passing judgement on the daughter.

dont know what happened after that. 1 year later, nephew got married to another girl, and now father of a 5 year old daughter. :)
 

kunjuppu

Active member
There is a right way of doing things. And a wrong way. IMHO eloping is the wrong way. As someone with parents i can't imagine how/why anyone would put their parents through such a thing. There is always room to sit down, discuss and come to an amicable solution with some persistence. Never say never as Shri K always says :)

dear amala,

i think you are personalizing this elopement, as something that is happening in your household. admittedly, you have a very close loving open frank friendshiplike relationship with mummy daddy. good for you, and i am sure of this, for otherwise you would not write about the feelings of mapa.

but not every household is like that. my own house, it was very stratified. dad would have had no clue if i had talked of love marriage. mom would have had a better idea, but not very open minded about it either. that was how i was treated. if i fallen in love in india, i would have had no choice but to antagonize my parents and move out.

in many of tambram households, parents and kids are so distant, that they hardly speak to one another, beyond the mundane stuff of day to day routines. the governing word, is respect, and not friendship between equals.

now my sis, 7 years younger. she felll in love with this guy, who openly came into our street strutting proudly like a peacock. mom could not do anything about it, as she had no control over him. the fact that he was a tambram, helped soothen things, and she was more nervous, not about my sister going wayward, but what the neighbours would say. it appears to be the same concern from vgane's sister - what the society would say.

you might also think again to your statement - would there be a situation where you and your parents are at standstill? some boy of a type, that your parents will never agree. if so, what will be you plan of action?

in my own experience, the last few weddings in chennai for my nieces or nephews, barring one, all were love marriages. but all of them married tambrams and as a consequence there was not any opposition. whereas my nephews nieces in north india, all have married north indians, and even there no opposition was experienced. had it been any other faith than hindus, or even lower caste, i am sure, all hell would have broken loose.

ps..can i ask you a favour. please address me as 'K saar' or 'K sir'. shri K sounds too formal to be addressed between chums :)
 

kunjuppu

Active member
You are right, Shri Prasad.

The only sollution for the parents to be happy, cheerful and at peace is to not to bother as whom their children choose as their life partner except guiding them to recognize the right personality of their chosen boy/girl, IMO.

With uncertainities in the success of both love and arranged marriages, parents can just leave their children with whom they want for their life, with all their intelligent rational brain and love in heart.


amazing insight ravi!! much change from what i perceived as differently opinionated in the past.

the reality is, parents have really no control or influence, if the child wants to marry someone whom they do not like.or even in an arranged marriage, once the thali is tied, parents have absolutely no control over subsequent events and actions.

the sooner the parents realize this, the better it is for them, to avoid heart aches. and also causing heart aches to the child involved.

personally, i think, no matter whom the child marries, if the parents stand by the child, and tell the society to lay off, nobody will say anything. it is only when the parents moan and while, like vgane's sister did, that the whole world, enjoying the tamasha, will come and shed crocodile tears :)
 
Renukaji,

Yours was an arranged marriage, approved by both families, you have a natural religious outlook, you respect our religion and I can hundred more positives in your case. People like you are an asset to all those who associate with you. You are special.

I will give my personal opinion as a hybrid offspring of an intercaste/interstate(NB/B) marriage.

I am not bragging here but I am happy with how I turned out..I dont think that I am better or lesser than anyone else of 100% same caste.

Why does everyone think that in an intercaste marriage it spells the end of tradition and cultures?

Actually how different can any true Vedic Hindu culture get?
There might be some regional variation here and there and I just view all that difference just like how the trade name of some medication differs from country to country.

Just like how Paracetamol is is sold under the trade name Panadol here and under the name Metacin in India(when I was in India..it was called Metacin)..the raw material is still the same.


Most children of intercaste marriage turn out just fine as anyone else.
May be they might have a broader out look in life and be able to adjust well in most situations.

I differ from my brothers a bit in the sense I take the study of religion as my pet subject and take lots of measures to increase my knowledge in it.
In each family all siblings are not the same.
One of my brothers loves to do deep research into religion and Stephen Knapp is his idol...some what a history buff.

So I dont feel in anyway that the intercaste blood in me made me lesser of a Hindu.
I haven't lost any culture or religion in me..I can only say that I gained cos I am a more of an Indian.

So give anyone a chance..As a Hindu who doesnt miss her prayers,pure veg(vegan now),crazy about Sanskrit and the study of religious text I dont think my intercaste status made me lose out in life.

This is just my honest opinion I thought I will share with everyone that nothing is really lost in an intercaste marriage.
 

kunjuppu

Active member
Renukaji,

Yours was an arranged marriage, approved by both families, you have a natural religious outlook, you respect our religion and I can hundred more positives in your case. People like you are an asset to all those who associate with you. You are special.

sarang,

why cannot all other hindu parents have the same attitude. think of the inclusive hindu faith, than dividing ourselves into groups and hating one another?

given a chance, would you do what renu's parents did? ie arrange marriage across castes?
 
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