Brahmins and Jews

[Jaykay767]

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:director: yes, babies died due to reservations !!. looks like there is some case of:llama: :violin:

 

[Jaykay767]

just in - 240 dead in Gorakpur 800 ill - Incompetence at all levels !!

 

[palindrome]

Hi Renuka,

Let me clarify. I am definitely NOT saying that caste = competence. All I am saying is it is critical to give importance to “merit” in all areas of life for any nation to progress.

Let the “meritorious” from Dalits/OBC become the leaders/doctors etc.. I don’t have a problem. Infact if you give reservations to any community, you will only breed incompetence, there is NO incentive to work hard & excel !

I am only pointing out, that by not focusing on merit, the biggest causalities are the Dalits/OBC which some people here are fighting for !!

Cheers,

:director: yes, babies died due to reservations !!. looks like there is some case of:llama: :violin:

just in - 240 dead in Gorakpur 800 ill - Incompetence at all levels !!

So babies dying due to lack of infrastructure should be blamed on caste. But of course, if doctors are brahmins then tune will change.

First, the claim was brahmins are deliberately not given medical admission hence reservations should be removed (the claim was camouflaged under the pretext that admissions are not based on meritocracy). See this.

Now all doctors who are not brahmins are incompetent at all levels because they did not get admission on merit (whoa!).

So much for the camouflaged prejudice and sourgrapes passed off under "merit". For all this false propaganda, lets see some cut-off marks. Check this out. Of course under each category (Open, Backward Class, ST, etc) kids are getting admission based on merit only.

Even for private colleges the cut off margin between general category and backward class for MBBS is less than 1 mark. See this: http://www.indiacollegefinder.org/courses/medicine/TNMA/private_college_cutoff.php

Why BC lets see the marks for ST. I can introduce you to a brahmin who did not come close to that 188 cut-off mark assigned for STs.

Why now, way back in the 1990s, none of my brahmin cousins got anywhere close to cut-off marks reserved for STs. But all of them were gung-ho about merit (so was I) as though with merit we cud have gotten admission. Now I tell everyone, we did not score. We were not meritorious. We cud never have made it under any category, not even ST, let alone Backward Class. Plain and simple.

 

[palindrome]

Wonder why no one is protesting against management quotas?

Those who do not score above cut-off marks purchase admission in a medical college under management quota by paying donations. None of them are meritorious.

A so-called brahmin who scores less than 188 cut off (159 marks to be precise) goes to Karnataka, pays a hefty donation to a medical college and studies there. What sorta doctor will he turn out to be? Will he be better than the ST who scored above the 188 cut-off mark? Well, only time will tell.

A lot depends on the determination to train well. Getting admission (either by merit or by donation) is just one step. After that, it depends on the student's determination to study well, to do well.

 

[palindrome]

Dear Jaykay Ji,

I have studied with people who got in medical college by reservation.

Many or shall I say all of them were from poor homes and they valued their studies.

They studied hard and never attended parties like the rest of us.

They were reserved and religious too mostly Christians.

They usually did well in exams and studied hard enough and never failed any exam.

You could see the determination in their eyes to try to improve themselves.

They never troubled anyone and were usually shy and very modest and totally non violent.

Good students who finally became good doctors.

So if you never had any 1st hand experience like what I had I guess you might not understand what I am saying.

No worries Renu.

Some folks are just like everyone else. But assume (in great proportions) they are different (from everyone else) bcoz of their caste. They like to think they are special.

Now I can understand why only 'brahmins' had the right to study and interpret dharmashastras -- they were afraid of competition. If everyone else learned sanskrit and played a similar role, they cud never have managed a birth-based monopoly. They were afraid of those who could get better than them.

As for your observation, all my childhood for specialist (paediatric) treatment I was taken to a tamil christian doctor. Not sure if its bcoz of their culture. I find christians having a lot of empathy; hence making very good care-givers. Every child was treated special with due concern, never in a rush faulting with improper diagnoses and treatment.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

First, the claim was brahmins are deliberately not given medical admission hence reservations should be removed (the claim was camouflaged under the pretext that admissions are not based on meritocracy). See this.
Now all doctors who are not brahmins are incompetent at all levels because they did not get admission on merit (whoa!).
So much for the camouflaged prejudice and sourgrapes passed off under "merit". For all this false propaganda, lets see some cut-off marks. Check this out. Of course under each category (Open, Backward Class, ST, etc) kids are getting admission based on merit only.
Even for private colleges the cut off margin between general category and backward class for MBBS is less than 1 mark. See this: http://www.indiacollegefinder.org/co...ege_cutoff.php
Why BC lets see the marks for ST.

The fundamental argument against caste-based reservation is that it is discriminatory. The "merit" argument is related to that only in the sense that for the non-Brahmin castes, their "caste" is considered as a merit.

All the grandiose terms used in the above post - "sourgrapes", "propaganda" etc cannot hide this fact.

Now a reference has been made to Zebra's post on his claim and subsequently some references to cut-off marks have been given, but the fact is those data do not negate Zebra's claim but, in fact, strengthens his claim.

What the cut-off marks show is that there could be hundreds or even thousands of candidates within a single point, which means several Brahmin candidates who are also meritorious, in comparison to the NB castes, are kept out simply because of their caste.Let's consider an example. If for General Category, the cut-off is 198, and for BC 197.5, then the Brahmins who scored between 197.5 and 198 are kept out purely because of their caste. If it is the argument of the poster that 197.5 is not any less meritorious than 198, then isn't it true that some meritorious brahmins are kept out? So Zebra's claim is not wrong after all. Now who is making false propaganda?

Having said that, just to make it clear, I do not agree with Jaykay's point on this issue and I can understand the heart-burn it can cause among reservation apologists. However, it is very easy to attack extreme positions and be satisfied with oneself but it is difficult to see through one's own prejudices.

I can introduce you to a brahmin who did not come close to that 188 cut-off mark assigned for STs.

Yes. There could be several Brahmins like that. There are also several Brahmins who are meritorious but are discriminated against in this system.

 

[palindrome]

The fundamental argument against caste-based reservation is that it is discriminatory. The "merit" argument is related to that only in the sense that for the non-Brahmin castes, their "caste" is considered as a merit.

All the grandiose terms used in the above post - "sourgrapes", "propaganda" etc cannot hide this fact.

Now a reference has been made to Zebra's post on his claim and subsequently some references to cut-off marks have been given, but the fact is those data do not negate Zebra's claim but, in fact, strengthens his claim.

What the cut-off marks show is that there could be hundreds or even thousands of candidates within a single point, which means several Brahmin candidates who are also meritorious, in comparison to the NB castes, are kept out simply because of their caste.Let's consider an example. If for General Category, the cut-off is 198, and for BC 197.5, then the Brahmins who scored between 197.5 and 198 are kept out purely because of their caste. If it is the argument of the poster that 197.5 is not any less meritorious than 198, then isn't it true that some meritorious brahmins are kept out? So Zebra's claim is not wrong after all. Now who is making false propaganda?

How about Backward Class students who score 0.5 marks lesser than cut-off? Will that also amount to deliberately denying admission based on caste?

How many students scoring between 197.5 and 198 are brahmins? How do we know those students were mostly brahmins only? They cud well be non-brahmin forward castes. How come I do not find non-brahmin forward caste people complaining so much? Does it mean brahmins are not getting admission on merit under open category while non-brahmin forward castes are (?) hence no complaints from non-brahmin forward castes?

Having said that, just to make it clear, I do not agree with Jaykay's point on this issue and I can understand the heart-burn it can cause among reservation apologists. However, it is very easy to attack extreme positions and be satisfied with oneself but it is difficult to see through one's own prejudices.

Oh your usual dumb barbs...Just to let you know these type of comments will be ignored next. Just bcoz i cannot bother to respond to such type of comments does not mean i accept them or have nothing to say against them. They are plain crap hence will be junked.

Yes. There could be several Brahmins like that. There are also several Brahmins who are meritorious but are discriminated against in this system.

There could be several non-brahmins who do not make it in a similar fashion. If this is discrimination, then I do not know what to call brahmanism (aka casteism) of the dharmashastras type practiced so far.....Given that there is no whimper against it, Given that there is nothing against management quotas, I wonder where the prejudice is....All i can say is, given the socio-cultural factors, this is the best India can do. Maybe a difference of 0.5 marks should be considered effect of extreme karma, irrespective of caste.

 

[palindrome]

How about this --

The cut-off mark for MBBS 2012 admission for the following colleges was lower for Open Category and higher for Backward Class:

Kilpauk Medical College (KMC), Coimbatore Medical College (CMC), Madurai Medical College (MMC), Kumaramangalam Medical College Salem (KMCS), Thanjavur Medical College (TMC).

For example, For KMC:
Open category max cut-off = 199.50
Backward Class category max cut-off = 199.75

Check out this list: http://www.jerusalemengg.ac.in/kcc/mbbs_co.pdf

Should Backward Class students complain now? Should this be called discrimination, deliberately denying them admission based on caste?

The higher cut-off for Backward Class (BC) students and lower cut-off for Open category reflects changing trends. Simply means, students under BC category are scoring higher than students from the Open category.

Also means admission under the BC category is more competitive in the face of limited number of seats.

 

[Vaagmi]

No worries Renu.

1. Some folks are just like everyone else. But assume (in great proportions) they are different (from everyone else) bcoz of their caste. They like to think they are special.

2. Now I can understand why only 'brahmins' had the right to study and interpret dharmashastras -- they were afraid of competition. If everyone else learned sanskrit and played a similar role, they cud never have managed a birth-based monopoly. They were afraid of those who could get better than them.

3. As for your observation, all my childhood for specialist (paediatric) treatment I was taken to a tamil christian doctor. Not sure if its bcoz of their culture. I find christians having a lot of empathy; hence making very good care-givers. Every child was treated special with due concern, never in a rush faulting with improper diagnoses and treatment.

1. I am not like anyone else in this world. For that matter no one is like anyone else. I am happy about my achievements. I have learnt quite a lot from my failures. When I look around I find many others like me in the identifiable group called brahmins. I also find a few in other identifiable groups called other castes. The frequency with which brilliance occurs in the group called brahmins is something that impresses me. I am happy that I belong to that group. Please tell what is wrong with this position of mine. I don't rub my pride on any one else. I have friends who are brilliant from the other communities and I treasure their friendship. I have thought about it and have drawn my conclusions as to why there is this preponderance of excellence and brilliance in the group called brahmins. I do not subscribe to the superior/inferior positions in castes and support dalits who fight it out. I am rather surprised that the intellectuals have a tendency to always find fault with people like me calling us all sort of names, some times even making fun of us with terms like supremacist brahmins etc., May be the prejudices are so strong that they can not see the truth in its true dimensions.

2. Dharmashastras are not the creations of brahmins alone. So Brahmins had no reasons to be possessive about them. They were civil codes of those ancient times authored by all the castes of the society and accepted for the common efficient functioning of the society in which every individual was dependent on all other individuals in a village. What was the competition for? Acquisition of pure knowledge about abstract ideas was never a paying proposition in monetary terms. So there could never have been any competition. The competition could have been there only for the available resources/assets and we can not blame Brahmins if they competed with others for a share in those resources for survival. Knowledge by its very nature can not be denied to any one who is seriously interested in acquiring it. So birth based monopoly was so much of bunkum brought in by interested historians in course of time.

3. I have quite a few friends who are Christians from the dalit community and they are all fine individuals and good teachers. For every Christian nurse who is good we can find a hundred other nurses who are equally good but not Christian. So your childhood impressions are just impressions.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Ref post 157 above:

The middle portion of that post itself is the perfect example of dumb barb, junk, and piece of crap that it talks about!

A question was raised. How about backward classes scoring 0.5% less than their cut-off but having higher marks when compared to say SC? Aren't they being discriminated against? Yes, that is also discrimination based on caste. But there is a difference. Unlike the general category where everyone can compete for seats (i.e. no seat is reserved for anyone there), the quota for castes classified as backward is exclusive for them, same is the case for MBC and so on and so forth. To see whether reservation system discriminates against the BCs also, one have to figure out whether some of these BCs who have 0.5% less than thier cut-off would have made it if there were no reservation at all(i.e. nothing bracketed exclusive for them or anyone else). The BCs, when they have exclusive reservation for themselves, cannot complain against MBC reservation which is just another exclusive reservation. It is not as if the MBCs and SCs can compete for seats reserved for BCs.

Another point was made regarding NBFCs not complaining about reservation. Although this is not totally true, that is beside the point. The brahmins have the right to discuss/question the system whether NBFCs agree with it or not! Even the reserved castes routinely fight for either more reservation or they try to keep off other castes from getting these priveleges. One just has to look at the case of Jats, the Marathas, the Gujjars etc etc. It is false to say that only brahmins complain about the reservation system. These people indulge in roadblocks, demolish public properties, display riotous behavior because everyone of them have their own complaints about the reservation system. Yet brahmins are mocked for a simple discussion in this forum. Then the usual rejoinder about varna etc were provided. Once again, the anti-brahminists have this ready-made escapist route when cornered. These people want to continue their casteist discrimination perpetually while simultaneously claiming to fight against it. Hypocrisy is written all over it.

 

[Vaagmi]

1. Oh your usual dumb barbs...Just to let you know these type of comments will be ignored next. Just bcoz i cannot bother to respond to such type of comments does not mean i accept them or have nothing to say against them. They are plain crap hence will be junked.

2. There could be several non-brahmins who do not make it in a similar fashion. If this is discrimination, then I do not know what to call brahmanism (aka casteism) of the dharmashastras type practiced so far.....Given that there is no whimper against it, Given that there is nothing against management quotas, I wonder where the prejudice is....All i can say is, given the socio-cultural factors, this is the best India can do. Maybe a difference of 0.5 marks should be considered effect of extreme karma, irrespective of caste.

3. A lot depends on the determination to train well. Getting admission (either by merit or by donation) is just one step. After that, it depends on the student's determination to study well, to do well.

1. The language used betrays desperation.

2. When you speak about cut off marks there are many other weighing factors which are ignored. A not so poor BC/OBC/MBC student along with the poor SC/ST student is given several scholarships at the school on the basis of caste. A poorer brahmin boy despite grinding poverty does not get this. He buys his book and finances his school fees by money borrowed by his parents. Poverty is the enemy of excellence in studies and many brahmin students have to contend with this. Thus there can not be a comparison between brahmins and others without taking all such relevant factors into account. The communists' position that each accoding to his ability and to each according to his need is the right basis for allocating resources between all the communities. But that is not acceptable to the BC/OBC/MBC chunk in the society.

3. The determination will come only when you are in a single minded pursuit of excellence. And that is possible only when you know for sure that your family is not starving/poorly fed, that your father does not have to go and beg of his employer for a loan to buy your books or to pay your monthly fees to the college/school, that on the Diwali day your mother and father will wear new dresses just as all others do etc., In the absence of an assurance on any of these and similar other reasonable immediate pressing aspirations, single minded pursuit of knowledge for a distant utopian tomorrow is not possible and determination will be just a hollow word without content/meaning.

 

[palindrome]

1. I am not like anyone else in this world. For that matter no one is like anyone else. I am happy about my achievements. I have learnt quite a lot from my failures. When I look around I find many others like me in the identifiable group called brahmins. I also find a few in other identifiable groups called other castes. The frequency with which brilliance occurs in the group called brahmins is something that impresses me. I am happy that I belong to that group. Please tell what is wrong with this position of mine. I don't rub my pride on any one else. I have friends who are brilliant from the other communities and I treasure their friendship. I have thought about it and have drawn my conclusions as to why there is this preponderance of excellence and brilliance in the group called brahmins. I do not subscribe to the superior/inferior positions in castes and support dalits who fight it out. I am rather surprised that the intellectuals have a tendency to always find fault with people like me calling us all sort of names, some times even making fun of us with terms like supremacist brahmins etc., May be the prejudices are so strong that they can not see the truth in its true dimensions.

This is classic. Thank you for the insight on caste and how it defines your life. Perhaps, those who use words like supremacist brahmins stand vindicated....

2. Dharmashastras are not the creations of brahmins alone. So Brahmins had no reasons to be possessive about them. They were civil codes of those ancient times authored by all the castes of the society and accepted for the common efficient functioning of the society in which every individual was dependent on all other individuals in a village. What was the competition for? Acquisition of pure knowledge about abstract ideas was never a paying proposition in monetary terms. So there could never have been any competition. The competition could have been there only for the available resources/assets and we can not blame Brahmins if they competed with others for a share in those resources for survival. Knowledge by its very nature can not be denied to any one who is seriously interested in acquiring it. So birth based monopoly was so much of bunkum brought in by interested historians in course of time.

By now, everyone knows enough about dharmashastras, so well...Anyways, the knowledge part is pure <edited>. Dharmashastras and their brahmin authors had more to do with controlling society and social power.

3. I have quite a few friends who are Christians from the dalit community and they are all fine individuals and good teachers. For every Christian nurse who is good we can find a hundred other nurses who are equally good but not Christian. So your childhood impressions are just impressions.

Agree.

 

[palindrome]

2. When you speak about cut off marks there are many other weighing factors which are ignored. A poor BC/OBC/MBC along with the SC/ST is given several scholarships at the school on the basis of caste. A poorer brahmin boy despite grinding poverty does not get this. He buys his book and finances his school fees by money borrowed by his parents. Poverty is the enemy of excellence in studies and many brahmin students have to contend with this. Thus there can not be a comparison between brahmins and others without taking taking all factors into account. The communists' position that each accoding to his ability and to each according to his need is the right basis for allocating resources between all the communities. But that is not acceptable to the BC/OBC/MBC chunk in the society.

for portion in bold -- proof please?

 

[Vaagmi]

1.This is classic. Thank you for the insight on caste and how it defines your life. Perhaps, those who use words like supremacist brahmins stand vindicated....


2. By now, everyone knows enough about dharmashastras, so well...Anyways, the knowledge part is pure crap. Dharmashastras and their brahmin authors had more to do with controlling society and social power.

3. Agree.

1. I quite do not understand. Please elaborate. Either my English is extremely poor or you are plain dimwitted.

<edited. removed. Consider this as a Warning. There is no need to dive into a personal attack mode in a discussion irrespective of whoever the member might be. If you do not agree with something, then do so in a civil manner and it is not nice to post messages that are personally insulting to others. It is against the forum rules and i hope the same does not get repeated again - praveen>


3. What is there to agree? Please explain as to what do you agree with.

 

[Vaagmi]

for portion in bold -- proof please?

Proof is me. Please let me know which Government/private/corporation school gives scholarship to brahmin students and that will be proof of your contention. You have a tendency to ask for proof for the existence of even the computer through which I input my posts. Better look for some other method to meet arguments with valid counter arguments.

Now to give you a taste of your own mischief:

Dharmashastras and their brahmin authors had more to do with controlling society and social power.

Proof please with chapter and verse in original.

 

[palindrome]

Ref post 157 above:

The middle portion of that post itself is the perfect example of dumb barb, junk, and piece of crap that it talks about!

A question was raised. How about backward classes scoring 0.5% less than their cut-off but having higher marks when compared to say SC? Aren't they being discriminated against? Yes, that is also discrimination based on caste. But there is a difference. Unlike the general category where everyone can compete for seats (i.e. no seat is reserved for anyone there), the quota for castes classified as backward is exclusive for them, same is the case for MBC and so on and so forth. To see whether reservation system discriminates against the BCs also, one have to figure out whether some of these BCs who have 0.5% less than thier cut-off would have made it if there were no reservation at all(i.e. nothing bracketed exclusive for them or anyone else). The BCs, when they have exclusive reservation for themselves, cannot complain against MBC reservation which is just another exclusive reservation. It is not as if the MBCs and SCs can compete for seats reserved for BCs.

Another point was made regarding NBFCs not complaining about reservation. Although this is not totally true, that is beside the point. The brahmins have the right to discuss/question the system whether NBFCs agree with it or not! Even the reserved castes routinely fight for either more reservation or they try to keep off other castes from getting these priveleges. One just has to look at the case of Jats, the Marathas, the Gujjars etc etc. It is false to say that only brahmins complain about the reservation system. These people indulge in roadblocks, demolish public properties, display riotous behavior because everyone of them have their own complaints about the reservation system. Yet brahmins are mocked for a simple discussion in this forum. Then the usual rejoinder about varna etc were provided. Once again, the anti-brahminists have this ready-made escapist route when cornered. These people want to continue their casteist discrimination perpetually while simultaneously claiming to fight against it. Hypocrisy is written all over it.

The answer to a large part of your post is in post number 158. Read it.

Another major part was already discussed in the Aarakshan thread. Those who wish to read it can go thru posts from this page onwards: http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/genera...shan-reservation-debate-resuming-8-print.html

WRT the rest, whatever you say...

1) Unless grassroots of the indian society and religion changes, unless it becomes free of caste, until prejudice of brahmanism is washed off, reservations are here to stay.

2) I do not think MBCs and STs want to compete for seats under BC category. Everyone gets their representation based on community, the best from each lot gets admission under merit. Dharmashastras do not have a fraction of meritocracy. So all talk about "merit" is merely hogwash.

3) Others may have minor complaints (majority of which pertain to better representation for themselves). All that is part of the system. No system is perfect. Given India's communal nature, this is the best India can do. Those who are faring well are moving on.

4) No other group gripes against reservations like 'brahmins' do. To the ones suffering from the gripe, good luck. The system is not gonna change for you.

 

[palindrome]

1. I quite do not understand. Please elaborate. Either my English is extremely poor or you are plain dimwitted.

Very revealing. So will let this stand.

<edited to remove the quoted text and followup reply as it has been taken care of above.- praveen>

3. What is there to agree? Please explain as to what do you agree with.

Perhaps this is a case of high-wit. All the same, will "explain" since you asked. I agree with all your observations/opinions as quoted in that portion. Go back and read post 162.

 

[palindrome]

Proof is me. Please let me know which Government/private/corporation school gives scholarship to brahmin students and that will be proof of your contention. You have a tendency to ask for proof for the existence of even the computer through which I input my posts. Better look for some other method to meet arguments with valid counter arguments.

Which such institution gives scholarship to non-brahmin students?

Now to give you a taste of your own mischief:



Proof please with chapter and verse in original.

Oh yes "mischief" indeed -- again very revealing.

Anyways, of all my numerous past posts with verses from dharmashastras, I'd rather prefer this one by sangom sir -- http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/genera...i-authored-safeguard-kshatriya-interests.html

 

[Vaagmi]

1. Very revealing. So will let this stand.

2. The only low words i use are crap and idiot. Sure your language as a brahmin is much better, we all get to see this very well enough.

3. Perhaps this is a case of high-wit. All the same, will "explain" since you asked. I agree with all your observations/opinions as quoted in that portion. Go back and read post 162.

1. That does not answer my question. Please answer if you have one. Otherwise people here will draw their conclusions. The words will stand there whether you let them stand or not.

2. Now I understand. Crap and Idiot are very complimentary words in your grammar. Perhaps you compliment your friends and elders with such words. Don't try to draw the safety net of others for your protection by using terms like "we all". Speak for yourself and others will speak for themselves.

3. What is there to agree with? I said I have friends and you say you agree with. This is the high-wit you are speaking about?

As long as you post with decent words I will engage you. The moment you use dirty/abusive language I will report you. Please discipline yourself in your own interest and do not cross the lakshman rekha.

 

[Vaagmi]

1. Which such institution gives scholarship to non-brahmin students?

2. Oh yes "mischief" indeed -- again very revealing.

3. Anyways, of all my numerous past posts with verses from dharmashastras, I'd rather prefer this one by sangom sir -- http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/genera...i-authored-safeguard-kshatriya-interests.html

1. Tamilnadu Government gives a scholarship to students studying 8th standard and above if they give a certificate from the VO that they belong to "chanar" community. Chanar community is the Nadar community and all the textile shops in Ranganathan Street and North Usman Road in T.Nagar Chennai are owned by members of this community and they are really "very poor" indeed. Just one example. Now where are you going to hide your face? I can give more such examples.

2. Answer please to my demand for proof. Where is the proof with chapter and verse in original? Don't beat around the bush and come straight with your proof.

3. No wonder you have admitted you prefer to read only that which agrees with your perception of the matter. Now please give me proof that Manusmriti was written by a brahmin with chapter and verse.

 

[palindrome]

1. That does not answer my question. Please answer if you have one. Otherwise people here will draw their conclusions. The words will stand there whether you let them stand or not.

Let others draw their conclusions.

2. Now I understand. Crap and Idiot are very complimentary words in your grammar. Perhaps you compliment your friends and elders with such words. Don't try to draw the safety net of others for your protection. by nusing terms like "we all". Speak for yourself and others will speak for themselves.

I said the only "low words" i use are crap and idiot, did not say they are complimentary words. But well, when there is a comprehension and high-wit problem anything goes.

3. What is there to agree with? I said I have friends and you say you agree with. This is the high-wit you are speaking about?

Again, let others draw their conclusions.

As long as you post with decent words I will engage you. The moment you use dirty/abusive language I will report you. Please discipline yourself in your own interest and do not cross the lakshman rekha.

Oh you want to go to moderator? Go. Who cares?

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Ref post 168:

1) The post 158 does not in fact negate the points I had made. The fact that the cut-off for backward class was higher for that particular college in that particular year does not prove anything. It certainly does not mean that the backward classes were discriminated more than general category because the general category is still open for the backward classes.

2) The statement "everyone gets representation" is also false and just betrays the ignorance of the poster. The general category is NOT a reserved category.

3) For the anti-brahminists, wide-scale roadblocks and dharnas is equivalent to minor complaint, but a discussion in this forum riles them to no extent. So much for objectivity.

4) Once again, the anti-brahminsts take a stand quite opposite to the advice they liberally give to the brahmins . For the anti-brahminists, a discriminatory system favoring themselves based on caste should remain for eternity and they are confident that it won't change and are gleeful about it. I often wonder why the anti-brahminists have so much hatred against the brahmins. Now it is clear, it is because they believe only brahmins gripe against the discriminatory system favoring them. So all these hatemongering is after all to keep their caste-based priveleges.

 

[palindrome]

1. Tamilnadu Government gives a scholarship to students studying 8th standard and above if they give a certificate from the VO that they belong to "chanar" community. Chanar community is the Nadar community and all the textile shops in Ranganathan Street and North Usman Road in T.Nagar Chennai are owned by members of this community and they are really "very poor" indeed. Just one example. Now where are you going to hide your face? I can give more such examples.

Chanars were a fraction above untouchables. If schemes were made to benefit them, so be it. But today if some wealthy ones are taking undue advantage of it, report them in media or report at thasildar's office.

2. Answer please to my demand for proof. Where is the proof with chapter and verse in original? Don't beat around the bush and come straight with your proof.

The OP posts by Sangom sir gives chapter, verse with full explanation. Pls read before asking for proof.

3. No wonder you have admitted you prefer to read only that which agrees with your perception of the matter. Now please give me proof that Manusmriti was written by a brahmin with chapter and verse.

Manusmriti was authored under the brahmin Sunga dynasty. Better ask Sangom sir to explain further. It is apparent you are trying to draw this into a slugfest and I choose to stay away from it. Thanks.

Maybe all this was triggered by my post number 158 quoting higher cut-off marks for BC than Open category. Oh well.....

 

[palindrome]

Ref post 168:

1) The post 158 does not in fact negate the points I had made. The fact that the cut-off for backward class was higher for that particular college in that particular year does not prove anything. It certainly does not mean that the backward classes were discriminated more than general category because the general category is still open for the backward classes.

I thot we already discussed this in Arakshan thread. Anyways..

Please let me know how general category is open for backward classes. Lets say a candidate declared himself BC in the caste column, provides a BC certificate during counselling, then how can he get admission in Open category?

2) The statement "everyone gets representation" is also false and just betrays the ignorance of the poster. The general category is NOT a reserved category.

Let it be ignorance. Afai understand, it is also a category. It is reserved for those who do not come under backward caste, MBC, SC, ST, etc. In effect it is a category reserved for upper-castes.

3) For the anti-brahminists, wide-scale roadblocks and dharnas is equivalent to minor complaint, but a discussion in this forum riles them to no extent. So much for objectivity.

If they want to resort to roadblocks, processions / dharnas, it is part of their strategy to make themselves heard. For every reason, India has crappy processions with roadblocks. Shows we are so inefficient, we are so populous that we have to resort to such nonsense to make ourselves heard. Bad state of affairs...

4) Once again, the anti-brahminsts take a stand quite opposite to the advice they liberally give to the brahmins . For the anti-brahminists, a discriminatory system favoring themselves based on caste should remain for eternity and they are confident that it won't change and are gleeful about it. I often wonder why the anti-brahminists have so much hatred against the brahmins. Now it is clear, it is because they believe only brahmins gripe against the discriminatory system favoring them. So all these hatemongering is after all to keep their caste-based priveleges.

Firstly, upper-castes have a category for themselves called Open Category -- so where is the discrimination?

Secondly, no one said this system must remain forever. Only said "Unless grassroots of the indian society and religion changes, unless it becomes free of caste, until prejudice of brahmanism is washed off, reservations are here to stay". A truly secular society without reservations will happen eventually. Don't you already see caste barriers breaking down? Aren't we changing functionally in society? Its just a matter of time. Eventually governance has to change based on its citizenry.

Kalabhairava, it does not behoove well of you to repeatedly allege "hatemongering" just bcoz i do not agree with your views.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

I thot we already discussed this in Arakshan thread. Anyways..
Please let me know how general category is open for backward classes. Lets say a candidate declared himself BC in the caste column, provides a BC certificate during counselling, then how can he get admission in Open category? .

Not only can the candidate get admission in open category but he is required to use open category ahead of reserved category. This is true for all reserved classes - BC, MBC, SC, and ST. They all can get admission in open category. The declaration is needed only for admission in the respective reserved categories because an SC cannot get into a BC and vice versa.

Let it be ignorance. Afai understand, it is also a category. It is reserved for those who do not come under backward caste, MBC, SC, ST, etc. In effect it is a category reserved for upper-castes. .

It is NOT a reserved category. Your understanding is wrong. It is not reserved for forward castes. It is perfectly okay for a BC, MBC, SC, or ST to claim a seat in open quota if they meet the cut-off requirements just like anybody else.

Firstly, upper-castes have a category for themselves called Open Category -- so where is the discrimination? .

The upper castes don't have a category for themselves unlike all the other castes and so the discrimination.

A truly secular society without reservations will happen eventually. Don't you already see caste barriers breaking down? Aren't we changing functionally in society? Its just a matter of time. Eventually governance has to change based on its citizenry. .

You can believe what you want to believe. The country is going down the path of increasing communal discrimination.