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Brahminical conundrum: Tradition vs Modernity

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
I have started a new thread about Astrology.


I believe there is no Astrology in any of the Ancient scriptures, Vedas, Gita, or Upanishads.

There is a beautiful article:

 
I am not an elder but have views based on experience of myself and learning by watching others. I am stating the views as a set of guidelines and rules. It is not directed at anyone. Just style of expression,

1. There are Brahmin haters in the society and some play liberal card but they have hate in their heart. You find them in every society in India and even in forums such as this one. You dont see them outside India very much.

With such people just stay away or fight back if they attack you first. Dont invite a fight but do not back down. Not talking about violence but develop strategies ahead of time to fight back. Sometimes flight is the best answer. Leave the state or even the country if need be.

Life is not worth wasting on hateful people for something you had no say about your own birth.

2. Follow your rituals and cultural norms and understand their significance well. Do not fall prey to superstitions.

3. Treat others as fellow Indians in India. Approach life as an Indian first and then a Brahmin. Even better think of yourself as a human being first and see the others as human beings . I cannot think of a more satvic approach to life than viewing others as fellow Indians or fellow human beings. With that broad outlook you will not find many enemies. But the transformation has to start in your heart first

4, Do not believe Brahninism is about some symbols. No need to flaunt symbols but that does not mean you have to hide that either. Just live life with love and kindness to all unless you run into unreasonable people. Dont trust anyone if they say they are beyond caste. Anyone that talks like that cannot be trusted.

5. Vasudaiva Kutumbakam as PM says is a good attitude to have. Be kind to others and animals. If possible practice vegan/vegetarianism as a value.

I think Brahmin values and character will survive the test of time if the above guidelines are followed.

The issue comes when it comes to weddings. If the community develops high values children will seek similar alliance. Today we live in contradictions and under spell of western culture aping all the west does in the worst manner possible. That will ensure the death of the Brahin community and that may be a good thing. So getting back to roots of right values is a must for survival.
If one notice brahmin community under attack over a long period of time. Earlier they had protection from the ruling class and a steady income and they flourished. Now for political reasons brahmins are haunted and their traditional professions are challenged. They have to find new pastures and egged the new generations to achieve new heights in the academics which will help them economically. Having denied the job opportunities even with high academic results due to reservations they are forced to look elsewhere and migrate in all this process we fail to give them our culture. The end result one can see. If possible the parents must try to educate on this front and follow the nityakarmas themselves and this will help ones wards.
 
Namaskaram to all.

A couple of days back, I was helping one of my friends who was about to get married. The observations I made were quite startling, at least to myself. I know, this topic has been discussed umpteen number of times in this community, but still a few doubts/ questions arose in me:

1. Most marriages, arranged ones, are nothing but business deals. I thought a Brahmin was someone who was supposed to eke out his living in a humble mannerwith high ideals. But what I saw on the ground was materialism gone wild. Too much of Artha and Kama at work. I’m not saying one must go back to the days of poverty, but how much is enough for a mans monthly salary. Men getting rejected for salaries less than 1 lakh a month. How many make the cut at a young age. Where did we go wrong or lose our way.

2. There was once a time when Brahmins would not even sing, take part in cutcheries, never travel abroad, it was the isai vellalars who mastered and preserved this art. But suddenly, in a 100 years time, Carnatic music has become like the identity of Brahmins, America looks better than India. Nothing wrong there, one can say, times change we have to change, but a religious tenet is not something I can change at will according to my own convenience. Anybody who moves out of this land of Bharat automatically loses his varna is what we were practising, did a few dollars change us?.

3. Reformation in a religion will have to come down to the normals from a learned master. Any other opinions coming from other directions will be taken not as an advice but as an assault. When us Brahmins who are supposed to lead the way have gone behind material pursuits, what’s the point in lamenting of children going astray in life. Met many people at a crowd. All old people with kids abroad, but none of them are happy with their children’s choices of their spouses, life etc. What’s stopping such people to voice out their opinions loudly rather than being hypocritical to their own kids.

4. Too much of emphasis on degrees and the aura around it. I have nothing against building brands or marketing oneself, but there’s a lot of ego and cutthroat competition within the community. Unless one is an IITian or a CA or an MS from US, there is no value addition.In what way is a priest lesser than any of these fellows. One of my own family member addressed the vaidikas as beggars in a condescending manner. Now ,the same fellow takes pride when his grandson chants mantras. A glorified NRI beggar growing up is what I felt.

To sum up, considering there is no support framework for a Brahmin both within and outside the community, what are the options left for anyone who wishes to lead a normal dharmic life:

a. If answer is: it’s changing times and we have to move on by getting rid of these rituals, well then fine, at least we can push the new gen towards materialism. That would make them physically rich at least and not worry about subscribing to Dharma.

b. Or if answer is in striking a balance, how does one go about it. What’s the balancing rope and how to manoeuvre it.

Elders who have gone through such experiences can kindly share your insights.
Sir, Namaskaram, your findings are absolutely right, many of brahmin boys beyond 45, are finding their better halfs from other communities is common now, as of my knowledge it's videly done in Namboothiri community, especially from Kannur, Kasaragod area, Tamil Brahmins are also moving towards this way ,since most of them including me tired to find suitable alliance.

There are so many peoples take initiative to overcome this problem, but all are failing to reach the goal,

A strong discussion and solutions by dominant personalities From our community is needed

Namaskaram
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
Namaskaram to all.

A couple of days back, I was helping one of my friends who was about to get married. The observations I made were quite startling, at least to myself. I know, this topic has been discussed umpteen number of times in this community, but still a few doubts/ questions arose in me:

1. Most marriages, arranged ones, are nothing but business deals. I thought a Brahmin was someone who was supposed to eke out his living in a humble mannerwith high ideals. But what I saw on the ground was materialism gone wild. Too much of Artha and Kama at work. I’m not saying one must go back to the days of poverty, but how much is enough for a mans monthly salary. Men getting rejected for salaries less than 1 lakh a month. How many make the cut at a young age. Where did we go wrong or lose our way.

2. There was once a time when Brahmins would not even sing, take part in cutcheries, never travel abroad, it was the isai vellalars who mastered and preserved this art. But suddenly, in a 100 years time, Carnatic music has become like the identity of Brahmins, America looks better than India. Nothing wrong there, one can say, times change we have to change, but a religious tenet is not something I can change at will according to my own convenience. Anybody who moves out of this land of Bharat automatically loses his varna is what we were practising, did a few dollars change us?.

3. Reformation in a religion will have to come down to the normals from a learned master. Any other opinions coming from other directions will be taken not as an advice but as an assault. When us Brahmins who are supposed to lead the way have gone behind material pursuits, what’s the point in lamenting of children going astray in life. Met many people at a crowd. All old people with kids abroad, but none of them are happy with their children’s choices of their spouses, life etc. What’s stopping such people to voice out their opinions loudly rather than being hypocritical to their own kids.

4. Too much of emphasis on degrees and the aura around it. I have nothing against building brands or marketing oneself, but there’s a lot of ego and cutthroat competition within the community. Unless one is an IITian or a CA or an MS from US, there is no value addition.In what way is a priest lesser than any of these fellows. One of my own family member addressed the vaidikas as beggars in a condescending manner. Now ,the same fellow takes pride when his grandson chants mantras. A glorified NRI beggar growing up is what I felt.

To sum up, considering there is no support framework for a Brahmin both within and outside the community, what are the options left for anyone who wishes to lead a normal dharmic life:

a. If answer is: it’s changing times and we have to move on by getting rid of these rituals, well then fine, at least we can push the new gen towards materialism. That would make them physically rich at least and not worry about subscribing to Dharma.

b. Or if answer is in striking a balance, how does one go about it. What’s the balancing rope and how to manoeuvre it.

Elders who have gone through such experiences can kindly share your insights.
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
It seems you carry to much weight on your shoulders. Please relax. Today's Brahmin can not live like the old days. Money is needed to live and take care of the family, children, old age etc. If a new field is giving a chance, then one should take it and excel in it. Thus, the olden days idea of let us live in poverty will not work as most villages have no Brahmins in Tamilnadu. Brahmins have always migrated and their inner strength to do good has not changed.
The families, expectations of women and children have changed and have to be met. That is what is happening. Regarding dowry and marriage expenses, they will slowly vanish. In kerala due to dowry troubles Barhmin girls marry Nair, Warior etc., I have five suhc friends. Historical times it was allowed.
What is Braminical ideal is to silently pray(no bells and loud chanting) but within mind - in deep meditation- miondfulness - asking God to give strength accepting whatever comes and also show a path which friends and families can not show. Studying new subjects to improve the intellectual potential to learn, sharing with others is the key of Brahmininical life. Help some poor kids to learn as teaching is the Paramo Dharma for Brahmins. There will be Brahmin-Brahmin, Brahim-SDhatriya, Brahmin-Baniya etc, similar to Chettiyar-Barhmin, Shatriya Brahmin (like Viswamitra) etc., which are fundamental characteristics and based on one's one value. Brahmins will always exit and no one can destroy them or change them. They always come back to their roots in the latter part of life.
 

usaiyer

Active member
I think the problem is very deep and deserves each one.s attention. I heard that someone from south from our community tried something like a"Yuvashri" program by bringing together girls and their parent and tried to educate themon the need to preserve our traditions and the role of marriage in this etc to provide some solutions to the problem.
Our Acharyas are also aware of this and doing their bit.
But at least next generation of girls can be educated and got out of this rut wrought by so called modernity,
The problem has its origin in the erstwhile dowry system
and the high cost of marriage which resulted in parents encouraging their girl child go out for jobs and earn a living
-Deivathin Kural.
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
Unfortunately we do not have reliable unbiased statistics to define what are the major problems Brahmin face in a ranked order. If some statisticians can work together they can gather necessary unbiased data. Then, we can prioritize the problems - problems that affect say 80%, 70%... and try to find ways to solve them. Poor Brahmin children need education help. Before that, if a poor Brarmin girl gets married among other help medical- both physical and mental - help should be provided by competent female Barmin doctors. Then only they can bear healthy children. Barhmin organization can start effort in this regard.
Most of the people who complain - usual Indian trait- do not offer viable solutions and that is not how the Barhmin society worked in historical times (based on ancient texts etc.).
 
OP
OP
Rudra_Maha

Rudra_Maha

Member
It seems you carry to much weight on your shoulders. Please relax. Today's Brahmin can not live like the old days. Money is needed to live and take care of the family, children, old age etc. If a new field is giving a chance, then one should take it and excel in it. Thus, the olden days idea of let us live in poverty will not work as most villages have no Brahmins in Tamilnadu. Brahmins have always migrated and their inner strength to do good has not changed.
The families, expectations of women and children have changed and have to be met. That is what is happening. Regarding dowry and marriage expenses, they will slowly vanish. In kerala due to dowry troubles Barhmin girls marry Nair, Warior etc., I have five suhc friends. Historical times it was allowed.
What is Braminical ideal is to silently pray(no bells and loud chanting) but within mind - in deep meditation- miondfulness - asking God to give strength accepting whatever comes and also show a path which friends and families can not show. Studying new subjects to improve the intellectual potential to learn, sharing with others is the key of Brahmininical life. Help some poor kids to learn as teaching is the Paramo Dharma for Brahmins. There will be Brahmin-Brahmin, Brahim-SDhatriya, Brahmin-Baniya etc, similar to Chettiyar-Barhmin, Shatriya Brahmin (like Viswamitra) etc., which are fundamental characteristics and based on one's one value. Brahmins will always exit and no one can destroy them or change them. They always come back to their roots in the latter part of life.
Agreed Sir, todays Brahmin cannot live like the old days. Things have changed a lot. Money is an integral part of the identity, earlier the Brahmins were supported and hence many were able to practice vedic life, today, anybody who practices such a lifestyle is the first one to get hunted, we've created a society of might is right. Not delving into that though.

What you suggested as varna sankara is inevitable, its the order of Kali where clarity of thought and purpose diminishes and everybody has to fall to the lowest realms, cant deny that, but the real deal is in the process of avoiding it. Main factor is marriage. Let the brahmins make money and protect themselves, nothing wrong in it. But it shouldnt come at the cost of ones own identity. Whats the point in claiming one as a brahmin when we try to avoid everything that makes one so. Prayers, sharing, teaching these are all characters that are prescribed to a B, correct. But so also is to maintain the Rishi parampara. What i've felt is the so called Bs of today are merely so because of their previous Karmas, nothing more. They've completely lost their understanding of Dharma/the life suggested by the vedas, instead have downgraded themselves in the name of progressivism.

Brahmins will always exit and no one can destroy them or change them--> True, they will exist, but only as a handful, that's where the community is headed. Earlier, once upon a time, Hindusim/Dharma was practiced across the continent, 100 years back Dharma was an integral component of the Subcontinent, 100 years from now, Dharma will be followed in max to max 1-2 states/districts. If such is the pattern for Sanatan, similar will be the case of the Brahmins. Hence, we must take pride that the Bs of today and previous generation, who were at the inflection point of Dharma, will be the most responsible for the downfall of Dharma in the years to come. Its because of our trivial mindset. This mindset is reflecting in the way the community treats its own members. Such a pain indeed to say this!!.
 

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
Brahmins will always exit and no one can destroy them or change them--> True, they will exist

The letter "S" makes the difference.
I do not disagree with your post in principle. But what is Brahmin Sanskara?
Is it universal? No two Brahmins practice the same thing.
Kashmiri Brahmins eat Chicken, Goat, and fish. Bengali and Saraswat Brahmins eat fish. and other meat.
We all might be mumbling the same Sanskrit Mantras (except some of which TB's claims exclusivity). For example, Gayatri Mantra is only for Brahmin males. That exclusivity was lost with Arya Samaj.
Prayers, sharing, teaching these are all characters that are prescribed to a B, correct.

Why is it exclusive to Brahmins?
Earlier, once upon a time, Hindusim/Dharma was practiced across the continent, 100 years back Dharma was an integral component of the Subcontinent, 100 years from now, Dharma will be followed in max to max 1-2 states/districts. If such is the pattern for Sanatan, similar will be the case of the Brahmins. Hence, we must take pride that the Bs of today and previous generation, who were at the inflection point of Dharma, will be the most responsible for the downfall of Dharma in the years to come. Its because of our trivial mindset. This mindset is reflecting in the way the community treats its own members. Such a pain indeed to say this!!.

Are Brahmins not part of Sanatana Dharma?
I consider myself as a Brahmin by birth, Sudra by profession (Engineer), Vaisya by choice (businessman and investor).

I do not wear my caste symbols. I do not think we are all that different from other good people.

Are Brahmins not suppose to evolve with time? Change is essential or we will perish, like the Dodo bird.

 
OP
OP
Rudra_Maha

Rudra_Maha

Member
The letter "S" makes the difference.
I do not disagree with your post in principle. But what is Brahmin Sanskara?
Is it universal? No two Brahmins practice the same thing.
Kashmiri Brahmins eat Chicken, Goat, and fish. Bengali and Saraswat Brahmins eat fish. and other meat.
We all might be mumbling the same Sanskrit Mantras (except some of which TB's claims exclusivity). For example, Gayatri Mantra is only for Brahmin males. That exclusivity was lost with Arya Samaj.


Why is it exclusive to Brahmins?


Are Brahmins not part of Sanatana Dharma?
I consider myself as a Brahmin by birth, Sudra by profession (Engineer), Vaisya by choice (businessman and investor).

I do not wear my caste symbols. I do not think we are all that different from other good people.

Are Brahmins not suppose to evolve with time? Change is essential or we will perish, like the Dodo bird.

No its not just exclusive to Brahmins, i referred to Dharma as a whole. The Brahmin was mentioned specifically because this is a forum discussing affairs of that specific community. Each community has its own sampradaayas to conform to. Its within the ambit of these traditions that each one is practicing and following their lifestyle.

Every tradition following community(both brahmin and others) today is being pounded and pulverized for following their traditions. Result: Sanatan Dharma is the one taking the beating. The way to preserve Dharma is to follow ones own family traditions devoutly without compromise. Sanatan is just an umbrella term for all the different sampradayams passed down generations. If in the name of modernity, we wipe it out saying oh all are the same, then thats homogenization or say abrahamization. But the irony is then people ask for more diversity. What more diversity can we expect from Sanatan when all we have to do is just follow our traditions, nothing more.

I consider myself as a Brahmin by birth, Sudra by profession (Engineer), Vaisya by choice (businessman and investor).I do not wear my caste symbols. I do not think we are all that different from other good people.-->

Thats your choice on how you want yourself to be seen, what you see in the mirror is your vision of yourself, what i may see of you is different, hence remember you will always be judged as a brahmin due to birth. In Santana Dharma, birth/kula is indeed one of the important considerations, theres no escaping that. I was indeed one of such types which said, i have all caste within me etc, but all you need is just a reality check. Lose an election in Mylapore, Bs get blamed, somewhere caste violence occurs, Bs get blamed for creating caste, follow traditions: Bs get blamed for being brahminical, dont follow traditions: Bs are responsible for the fall of Dharma. See the pattern, you're not gonna escape the maaya of birth. Its always going to be there, whether you like it or not. Hence, preaching secularism is not going to help in times of distress.

If you follow the sampradayams handed down to you by your ancestors, good for you and your lineage. If not, well, as you quoted, welcome to the lost and forgotten club. You have the honor of adding your tradition to the list of the Dodos and mammoths. Its a loss to your family line, and the loss will be personal(only if you realize you've been robbed/scammed).

Now you may ask why should i follow a samradayaa, whats the use, well simply put its the sampradayaa that makes a faith whatever it is. Without such traditions, no one will come to agree to a middle point. Its the ritual which brings the most intelligent and the normal man on the same ground. Everybody assembles and respects the sampradayaa, lose that part, then you're on your own.

Let the change come to the community from the learned traditional Acharyas and gurus. Atleast in my knowledge, i havent seen the traditional acharyas asking people to give up their modern jobs and take up life in a Ashram vehemently. All they're requesting is to practice their nityakarmas and family traditions without break and that too, they're mentioning it in a pleading manner. If that's too much to ask of a community, then what to expect of such a group, i dont wanna say further about such teams....
 

KannadaGuy

New member
Agreed Sir, todays Brahmin cannot live like the old days. Things have changed a lot. Money is an integral part of the identity, earlier the Brahmins were supported and hence many were able to practice vedic life, today, anybody who practices such a lifestyle is the first one to get hunted, we've created a society of might is right. Not delving into that though.

What you suggested as varna sankara is inevitable, its the order of Kali where clarity of thought and purpose diminishes and everybody has to fall to the lowest realms, cant deny that, but the real deal is in the process of avoiding it. Main factor is marriage. Let the brahmins make money and protect themselves, nothing wrong in it. But it shouldnt come at the cost of ones own identity. Whats the point in claiming one as a brahmin when we try to avoid everything that makes one so. Prayers, sharing, teaching these are all characters that are prescribed to a B, correct. But so also is to maintain the Rishi parampara. What i've felt is the so called Bs of today are merely so because of their previous Karmas, nothing more. They've completely lost their understanding of Dharma/the life suggested by the vedas, instead have downgraded themselves in the name of progressivism.

Brahmins will always exit and no one can destroy them or change them--> True, they will exist, but only as a handful, that's where the community is headed. Earlier, once upon a time, Hindusim/Dharma was practiced across the continent, 100 years back Dharma was an integral component of the Subcontinent, 100 years from now, Dharma will be followed in max to max 1-2 states/districts. If such is the pattern for Sanatan, similar will be the case of the Brahmins. Hence, we must take pride that the Bs of today and previous generation, who were at the inflection point of Dharma, will be the most responsible for the downfall of Dharma in the years to come. Its because of our trivial mindset. This mindset is reflecting in the way the community treats its own members. Such a pain indeed to say this!!.

Whenever I have thought of Traditions/Dharma and this conundrum of tradition vs modernity, two videos from my favorite Indian TV shows come into my mind.

Chanakya: "You're the cause of your own downfall. I'm the cause of my own downfall. No values and traditions can survive unless we follow them. It's foolish to blame the rise of other sects for the downfall of their faiths. It is your faith. How can it fail? And if your beliefs are not founded on truth, they have to crumble. Your path could be different, their path could be different. There can be different paths that will lead to the truth. So it's wrong to think that those who aren't following your path are wrong. The same truth is presented by learned men in different ways. Religions can be the paths, but those can't be the goal. Devotion is a link between the devotees and their ultimate goal. Devotion too is a path. It too can be different. The devotion of the people following the same culture can be different. Just because our devotion or sects are different, our culture can't be different. Culture is based on the human values of the truth. It is the way of life that we follow. We believe in life, that's our culture. That's our tradition. We accept nothing but the truth. That's our method; That's our discipline. And this culture leads us to different forms of prayers. There is no conflict between the way of life and the method of prayer as long as that leads to truth. So don't worry if the path of others is different from your own path. Don't be upset. Uphold your belief. Follow your values and re-evaluate them from time to time. See the truth through the eyes of truthful traditions and analyze them. As long as you protect the truth, the culture will protect you. If you are feeling insecure today, the reason lies within you, not outside. If you leave the path of truth, what alternative path can you choose? This is the cause of your downfall and causes for society's downfall too. Instead of accepting challenges, you develop enmity! Nurse hated! You challenge others! If your belief in truth is so strong, then live unto it. Only your conduct will become your history. And you have every right to make your own history. If you have the courage, live by truth, practice truth. Give examples; be an example to others. Who is stopping you? "

Upanishad Ganga:
Son: Heritage? What kind of heritage are you talking about? Veda, Puran, and Upanisad have no relevance in today's times. In the name of heritage, beggars like you are making people take a dip in Ganga and putting a tilak on them for money.
Father: Whatever my father gave me, I felt it was my duty to pass them on to you. I may have been wrong. But, I am proud of my heritage. You may not accept your heritage. You may not have any relevance for it. Now that you are grown up and are able to think for yourself. Is there a relevance to yourself? Do you know the relevance of what you are doing today? If you ever figure out the relevance to things, please do tell them to me.


I am a conformist like you and below to the same younger age group as you. In the first 20 years of my life, I felt that my parents were imposing a lot of restrictions and made me do stuff that I was not interested in. However, after moving to US for higher education 5 years ago, I started understanding what I was missing in US and started doing daily prayers, visiting temples often, reading through different Hindu scriptures. Today, I understand why my parents made me do those and I attribute my success in life to those practices that instilled self-discipline in me. Now that I have artha and kama, I felt that it was time to focus on Dharma. I feel that at some point in their lives, people will understand what they are missing and will revert back to their roots (Most people, not all).
 

usaiyer

Active member
Ref: #106
Yuvashree-A workshop on our (Brahmin) way of life ,the program as a eyeopener to our young girls and parents
on this deep community malaise ,was started in 2011 and the
founder president CA T.R .Ramanathan ,from Tirupur35
9842270835 and organized under the aegis of "Veda Bharathi"
as an plausible answer to the problem under discussion .Why not support such initiatives on a larger level as an answer to this problem?
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
Agreed Sir, todays Brahmin cannot live like the old days. Things have changed a lot. Money is an integral part of the identity, earlier the Brahmins were supported and hence many were able to practice vedic life, today, anybody who practices such a lifestyle is the first one to get hunted, we've created a society of might is right. Not delving into that though.

What you suggested as varna sankara is inevitable, its the order of Kali where clarity of thought and purpose diminishes and everybody has to fall to the lowest realms, cant deny that, but the real deal is in the process of avoiding it. Main factor is marriage. Let the brahmins make money and protect themselves, nothing wrong in it. But it shouldnt come at the cost of ones own identity. Whats the point in claiming one as a brahmin when we try to avoid everything that makes one so. Prayers, sharing, teaching these are all characters that are prescribed to a B, correct. But so also is to maintain the Rishi parampara. What i've felt is the so called Bs of today are merely so because of their previous Karmas, nothing more. They've completely lost their understanding of Dharma/the life suggested by the vedas, instead have downgraded themselves in the name of progressivism.

Brahmins will always exit and no one can destroy them or change them--> True, they will exist, but only as a handful, that's where the community is headed. Earlier, once upon a time, Hindusim/Dharma was practiced across the continent, 100 years back Dharma was an integral component of the Subcontinent, 100 years from now, Dharma will be followed in max to max 1-2 states/districts. If such is the pattern for Sanatan, similar will be the case of the Brahmins. Hence, we must take pride that the Bs of today and previous generation, who were at the inflection point of Dharma, will be the most responsible for the downfall of Dharma in the years to come. Its because of our trivial mindset. This mindset is reflecting in the way the community treats its own members. Such a pain indeed to say this!!.
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
Thanks for your response. It is time (Kaala) that determines what will happen. In a cyclic way, some old values - family, respecting guest, being honest most of the time (95%+), helping others, having empathy, social service, teaching the poor and so on are the virtues of Brahmins. That is why the society respected them. However, changes are inevitable due to circumstances beyond your control and that is what Krishna says " Karmanyeva Athikaram Aste, Ma phaleshu Kathachana" is a statistical principle that the unknown factors will change the outcome. The probability of the outcome can not be determined by you. Your arrow may move, winde can blow it, Pitamaha's chariot may move, our chariot may move.. unknown factors affect the outcome. Also, once Brahmins had to depend on British rulers, many of our virtues changed and now with monetary prosperity we are slowly moving back to most of our qualities. Caste were carried out too far and now it is the other castes who are going though changes and the repercussion. Vanniyars, Gaundars and Kshatriya(Thevar) are committing the same mistakes and untouchability which once Orthodox Brahmins believing it is OK did., but forgot they were worshiping non-Brahmin Gods(Yadava Krishana, Kshatriya Rama..) but Gods never had a caste! Vishunu says he is the only one ever existed. So, political and economic freedom now is teaching that Brahmins also need emotional freedom. It will come but slowly. I do my part and do not complain as Krishna has said. I am not preaching or giving sermons, rather saying our ancestors accepted whatever came on their path and said- Sarvam Krishnamurti. Let us do the same and let the nature decide the path for us.
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
The letter "S" makes the difference.
I do not disagree with your post in principle. But what is Brahmin Sanskara?
Is it universal? No two Brahmins practice the same thing.
Kashmiri Brahmins eat Chicken, Goat, and fish. Bengali and Saraswat Brahmins eat fish. and other meat.
We all might be mumbling the same Sanskrit Mantras (except some of which TB's claims exclusivity). For example, Gayatri Mantra is only for Brahmin males. That exclusivity was lost with Arya Samaj.


Why is it exclusive to Brahmins?


Are Brahmins not part of Sanatana Dharma?
I consider myself as a Brahmin by birth, Sudra by profession (Engineer), Vaisya by choice (businessman and investor).

I do not wear my caste symbols. I do not think we are all that different from other good people.

Are Brahmins not suppose to evolve with time? Change is essential or we will perish, like the Dodo bird.

 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
What Brahmin Sanskara: (1) Daily morning, offer 10 handful of water (Arkyam) to all departed soul in the family by saying" to all of my ancestor souls, thank you". (2) Help the elderly when you can which can be as small as helping them load their grocery from their carts to vans. (3) Teach one poor child as a volunteer. (4) Help friends physically (not financially which may lead to damage to friends) (5) Be humble and not show off (5). Continue to learn and share it as a duty to help others. (6) Writ the suggestions you have received that had elevated your mind and life (7) Don't give advice (I am doing it because I am trying to respond to you, feel sad and sorry too):Intelligent people don't need advice, idiots will not understand, so Maunam Kalaka Nasthi - Silence - no troubles (8) Both in the morning and in the night recall at least about 25 people who have had influence in your life and thank their souls. (9) Accept what ever happening is as "predetermined" and continue to go on with your life. This will be painful and if you expect any solution from any human , you will not get it. So, for about five minutes meditate asking your personal form of God to guide you. You will find the path. When I could not memorize for exam- I did it- I got the solution: instead of being a student, I became a teacher and talked to the wall as though they are dummy students (like my teacher use to tell us - you are all donkeys standing near a diapilated wall; then he will explain things in different ways until we understood. This paid off, I was first in four subjects in the state and till now it works. I could not memorize poems, so learned to sing them. All these came through meditation.
You are asking too many question and your arrogance and ego is coming out from your words, though that might not be your intention. Reread what you wrote. No one is answerable to your questions. However, you are our cousin and therefore I am sharing what made me happy. labels are not important but what our ancestors wanted us to do to be a "Brahmin" is what is important. Viswamitra, a shatriya did and became a Brahmin. Rituals in historical times have no meaning now, but if you look at the motivation behind them, they are true to day.
With affection from a cousin.
 

usaiyer

Active member
#116 point no.(9) I agree. There must have been occasion/s in each one's life when they must have experienced this fact of life. Surrender to god is the only solution .Humans have
limitations to help. Ramana Maharishi has clearly spelt this out in one of his interviews.
The varna code of professional conduct was some thing that was prevalent during ancient times ,but it has been a casualty
in modern times with the advancement of education and people's mobility. This we have to accept as modern contribution of society and live with it though there can be
opinions to the contrary.
 

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
What Brahmin Sanskara: (1) Daily morning, offer 10 handful of water (Arkyam) to all departed soul in the family by saying" to all of my ancestor souls, thank you". (2) Help the elderly when you can which can be as small as helping them load their grocery from their carts to vans. (3) Teach one poor child as a volunteer. (4) Help friends physically (not financially which may lead to damage to friends) (5) Be humble and not show off (5). Continue to learn and share it as a duty to help others. (6) Writ the suggestions you have received that had elevated your mind and life (7) Don't give advice (I am doing it because I am trying to respond to you, feel sad and sorry too):Intelligent people don't need advice, idiots will not understand, so Maunam Kalaka Nasthi - Silence - no troubles (8) Both in the morning and in the night recall at least about 25 people who have had influence in your life and thank their souls. (9) Accept what ever happening is as "predetermined" and continue to go on with your life. This will be painful and if you expect any solution from any human , you will not get it. So, for about five minutes meditate asking your personal form of God to guide you. You will find the path. When I could not memorize for exam- I did it- I got the solution: instead of being a student, I became a teacher and talked to the wall as though they are dummy students (like my teacher use to tell us - you are all donkeys standing near a diapilated wall; then he will explain things in different ways until we understood. This paid off, I was first in four subjects in the state and till now it works. I could not memorize poems, so learned to sing them. All these came through meditation.
You are asking too many question and your arrogance and ego is coming out from your words, though that might not be your intention. Reread what you wrote. No one is answerable to your questions. However, you are our cousin and therefore I am sharing what made me happy. labels are not important but what our ancestors wanted us to do to be a "Brahmin" is what is important. Viswamitra, a shatriya did and became a Brahmin. Rituals in historical times have no meaning now, but if you look at the motivation behind them, they are true to day.
With affection from a cousin.
Except for the point you made in 1. Nothing is exclusive to Brahmins.
Even item number 1 is not universal among all brahmins. Item 1 is symbolic and done in faith (which means no reason is needed).

Rituals without meaning are done on faith. You can not continue with a faith-based ritual to the next generations, as we have moved away from villages to cities and our children are getting educated. They question everything and are not driven by superstitions.
 

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
#116 point no.(9) I agree. There must have been occasion/s in each one's life when they must have experienced this fact of life. Surrender to god is the only solution .Humans have
limitations to help. Ramana Maharishi has clearly spelt this out in one of his interviews.
The varna code of professional conduct was some thing that was prevalent during ancient times ,but it has been a casualty
in modern times with the advancement of education and people's mobility. This we have to accept as modern contribution of society and live with it though there can be
opinions to the contrary.
Your point is valid, I agree with it. It is agreed with faith. But it is universal.

But this thread is about:
Brahminical conundrum: Tradition vs Modernity.
So your post does not help OP.
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
Except for the point you made in 1. Nothing is exclusive to Brahmins.
Even item number 1 is not universal among all brahmins. Item 1 is symbolic and done in faith (which means no reason is needed).

Rituals without meaning are done on faith. You can not continue with a faith-based ritual to the next generations, as we have moved away from villages to cities and our children are getting educated. They question everything and are not driven by superstitions.
 
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