Brahman maya conversations

[Visalakshi Ramani]

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Thank you dear Mr. Sravna. ray2:

Coming from you, it carries more weight than usual.

Good one madam!

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

They have a 24 / eternity hot-line free of cost

If Maya and Brahman have a conversation I wonder who pays the bill?

 

[renuka]

Dear Sravna,

I was relaxing a while and hearing this song and just thought its almost like a Jeeva and Maya conversation..


Ok Jeeva is getting fed up of Maya and the "lies" and illusions she spins and Jeeva has fallen in love with Brahman and only wants to break free to reach Him at the same time relates how Maya has conditioned Jeeva all these years and Jeeva realizes that he has to get used to being alone without all the transient illusionary love of Maya that Jeeva was accustomed all these years..


Lyrics and song from "I want to break free" (Queen)

I want to break free
I want to break free
I want to break free from your lies
You're so self satisfied I don't need you
I've got to break free
God knows, God knows I want to break free

I've fallen in love
I've fallen in love for the first time
And this time I know it's for real
I've fallen in love,
God knows God knows I've fallen in love

It's strange but it's true
I can't get over the way you love me like you do
But I have to be sure
When I walk out that door
Oh how I want to be free baby
Oh how I want to be free
Oh how I want to break free

But life still goes on
I can't get used to living without living without
Living without you by my side
I don't want to live alone hey
God knows got to make it on my own
So baby can't you see
I've got to break free

I've got to break free
I want to break free

I want, I want, I want, I want to break free


<font color="#000000"><span style="font-family: verdana">[video=youtube_share;Kee9Et2j7DA]http://youtu.be/Kee9Et2j7DA[/video]​

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

I was relaxing a while and hearing this song and just thought its almost like a Jeeva and Maya conversation..


Ok Jeeva is getting fed up of Maya and the "lies" and illusions she spins and Jeeva has fallen in love with Brahman and only wants to break free to reach Him at the same time relates how Maya has conditioned Jeeva all these years and Jeeva realizes that he has to get used to being alone without all the transient illusionary love of Maya that Jeeva was accustomed all these years..

Dear Renuka,

Looks like a typical script of tamil movies where the good guy gets all that is good. I think the talent of maya is also unique in that it makes you to totally believe in something delusional. Is it not more difficult than making you believe in the real thing?

 

[renuka]

Karl Marx said " Religion is the Opium of the People".

Hey Sravna....is Maya making us puff Opium?

Can we say Maya is the Opium of the masses?

 

[sravna]

Karl Marx said " Religion is the Opium of the People".

Hey Sravna....is Maya making us puff Opium?

Can we say Maya is the Opium of the masses?

I would add more an opium of the elite since they seem to stagger more than the masses

 

[renuka]

I would add more an opium of the elite since they seem to stagger more than the masses

You know Sravna..anyone reading all our post so far might think me or you were high on opium when we wrote all these..just scroll back and read what we wrote!!
Its spiritually "high".LOL!! (just kidding)

 

[sravna]

You know Sravna..anyone reading all our post so far might think me or you were high on opium when we wrote all these..just scroll back and read what we wrote!!
Its spiritually "high".LOL!! (just kidding)

Don't you think maya would then be at its very best?

 

[renuka]

Don't you think maya would then be at its very best?

I cant stop laughing here Sravna..you are going to make people suspect me or you and Opium more!!!

 

[sravna]

Didn't I say maya has a unique ability?

 

[renuka]

Ok now I have a question for you Sravna..many a times its asked if Jeeva or even Iswara under the spell of Maya... but is Maya under its own spell too?
What I mean is ..Is Maya immune to its own Maya?

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

IMO, the influence of maya should seen in context of its purpose. It is that aspect of the omniscient and omnipotent brahman which again IMO is responsible for the bliss of the brahman. The bliss comes from the inherent balance because that which is perfectly balanced can never come to grief and there is a peace that is its characteristic. We have human examples in the great sages especially the brahmarishis who are supposed to have transcended emotions and hence can never be mentally affected.

Thus the purpose of maya in physical terms is only to aid the process towards that blissful state and in spiritual terms defines brahman's eternal and blissful state. But maya shouldn't be thought of as something separate from brahman but if something that is resposnible for the physical world and all its events and also for the the own bliss of brahman, and has been called something, it is called maya.

So, maya deluding itself would be self destructive and contradicts the eternal nature of brahman.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Ok now I have a question for you Sravna..many a times its asked if Jeeva or even Iswara under the spell of Maya... but is Maya under its own spell too?
What I mean is ..Is Maya immune to its own Maya?

Here is a story describing the power of Maya on Narada the Devarishi.
[h=1]மாயையின் சக்தி.[/h]

“மாயையின் வயப்பட்டவர்களால்
மாயையை அறியவே முடியாது!”
கூறும் இறைவனிடம் நாரத முனிவர்
கூறினார்,”நானும் காணவேண்டுமே!”

நீண்ட நெடிய பயணம் சென்றனர்,
நீல வர்ணனும் நாரதரும் ஒருநாள்.
“நீர் வேட்கை மிகுந்து உள்ளது!
நீர் கொண்டு வாரும் நாரதரே!”

நீர் நிலையை அடைந்த நாரதர்;
நிகரற்ற ஓரழகியைக் கண்டார்.
அவளும் இன்சொல் பயிலவே,
அவரும் மதி மயங்கலானார் .

இருவரும் கூடி இன்புற்றிடவே,
பிறந்தன பலப் பல குழந்தைகள்.
கொடிய நோய் ஒன்று தோன்றியது;
நொடியில் மரணம் விளைவித்தது!

“வேறிடம் போவோம்” எனக் கூறி
வேகமாகக் குடும்பத்துடன் செல்ல,
பொங்கிய ஆற்று நீர் அனைவரையும்
எங்கோ இழுத்துச் சென்று விடவே,

தனித்து விடப்பட்ட நாரதர் கண்கள்
பனித்து அழுது புலம்பும் பொழுது,
“நீர் என்ன செய்து கொண்டுள்ளீர்?
நீர் கொண்டுவர இவ்வளவு நேரமா?”

“ஒரே நிமிடத்தில் இத்தனையும்
ஒருசேர நிகழ்ந்தனவா, இறைவா?
உன் மாயைக்கு ஒரு நமஸ்காரம்!
உனக்கு ஒரு கோடி நமஸ்காரம்!

மாயையை என்னிடம் நெருங்கிவிட,
மறந்தும் கூட நீ அனுமதியாதே!
மானிடர்கள் படும் துன்பங்கள்,
மாதவா! மலைப்பூட்டுதே!” என்றார்.

வாழ்க வளமுடன்,
விசாலாக்ஷி ரமணி.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

One more here.... if for it you care!


மாயாவிலாசம்.



நர நாராயணர்களாக அவதரித்த இறைவன்,
வரங்கள் பலவற்றைத் தர விரும்பினாலும்,
இறைவனின் மாயா விலாசத்தை காணவே,
மறை முனிவர் மார்க்கண்டேயர் விழைந்தார்.

வீசும் காற்றாலும், பெய்யும் மழையாலும்,
வாசம் செய்து வந்த உலகமே மூழ்கிவிட்டது!
எங்கு நோக்கினும் சுழித்து ஓடும் நீர்தான்,
எங்குமே எதுவுமே காணப்படவில்லை!

பத்துக் கோடி ஆண்டுகள் தனிமையிலே
ஒற்றையாகச் சுழன்றவர் பிறகு கண்டார்,
ஆல் இலை மேல் ஒரு அழகிய குழந்தையை;
கால் விரலை வாயில் இட்டுச் சுவைப்பவனை!

தழுவ விரும்பி அதன் அருகே சென்றவரை,
முழுதுமாக கவர்ந்தது உள் மூச்சுக் காற்று.
முழு உலகமும் கண்டார் குழந்தையினுள்!
முழுதுமாய் வெளி வந்தார் வெளி மூச்சில்.

மீண்டும் குழந்தையைத் தழுவ முயன்றவர்,
மீண்டும் தன் ஆசிரமத்திலேயே இருந்தார்!
காற்று, வெள்ளம், மேகம், மழை, சுழல்கள்
பார்த்த எல்லாம் மாயா விலாசம் அல்லவா?

மாயையின் சக்தியை வெல்வது கடினம்.
மாலவன் பூரண அருள் இருந்தால் அன்றி
மாயையை வெல்லவே முடியாது என்று
மாதவனே தன் கீதையில் உரைக்கின்றான்!

வாழ்க வளமுடன்,
விசாலாக்ஷி ரமணி.

 

[prasad1]

Dear Renuka,

IMO, the influence of maya should seen in context of its purpose. It is that aspect of the omniscient and omnipotent brahman which again IMO is responsible for the bliss of the brahman. The bliss comes from the inherent balance because that which is perfectly balanced can never come to grief and there is a peace that is its characteristic. We have human examples in the great sages especially the brahmarishis who are supposed to have transcended emotions and hence can never be mentally affected.

Thus the purpose of maya in physical terms is only to aid the process towards that blissful state and in spiritual terms defines brahman's eternal and blissful state. But maya shouldn't be thought of as something separate from brahman but if something that is resposnible for the physical world and all its events and also for the the own bliss of brahman, and has been called something, it is called maya.

So, maya deluding itself would be self destructive and contradicts the eternal nature of brahman.

Sorry to jump in to this high philosophy talk between two stalwarts.
Can Maya be equated to "ignorance of truth", it is opposite of truth. So ignorance can not have ignorance. There has to be a percepter to be ignorant of truth for maya to function. When we take away the jiva there is no maya IMO.

 

[renuka]

Sorry to jump in to this high philosophy talk between two stalwarts.
Can Maya be equated to "ignorance of truth", it is opposite of truth. So ignorance can not have ignorance. There has to be a percepter to be ignorant of truth for maya to function. When we take away the jiva there is no maya IMO.

Dear Prasad Ji,

I am just learning like anyone else here not really a stalwart...anyway I will paste what I posted sometime back in forum...its on the same lines as what you had written.
I had taken it from Sathya Sai Speaks Q and A.

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/literature/3851-maya-prakriti-cosmic-deluder.html

Dear all,

i will put a Q & A taken from Sathya Sai Gita.

Q)Is it possible to discover the begining or the end of Maya?
Can anyone know when Maya will end?

A)None can discover the begining of Maya.neither the personalized God(Easwara),nor the individual self(jeeva) nor the objective world(Prakrithi) can ever suceed in discovering the begining of Maya which brought them into existence and started the chain of
"act--consequence-act'
Nevertheless one can suceed in discovering when Maya will end!
When will it end?

When the objective world is ignored,set aside,denied or discovered to be immanent in the Divine,the jeeva is no more.
Easwara(personalized God) is also superflous and disappears.And when the Easwara has faded out,the Brahman alone is.
When a personalized God,jeeva and prakrithi(the objective world) are non existent in the developed consciousness of man,Maya the progenitor of all three cannot persists.

before that :Maya is the Will that caused The Personalized God(Easwara),Jeeva and the objective world(Prakriti).
Maya is like a mirror....
When the Sattvic nature is reflected in it...Personalized God(Easwara) results....
When Rajasic nature is reflected in it....Individualized Self(Jeeva) results...
When the Tamasic nature is relected in it....The Objective world(Prakriti) results...



all inputs taken from Sri Sathya Sai Gita..Q & A

 

[sravna]

Sorry to jump in to this high philosophy talk between two stalwarts.
Can Maya be equated to "ignorance of truth", it is opposite of truth. So ignorance can not have ignorance. There has to be a percepter to be ignorant of truth for maya to function. When we take away the jiva there is no maya IMO.

Dear Shri Prasad,

IMO maya is something that stands on its own. It is my view that the jiva itself is a product of distorted reality or the action of maya. Jiva itself being a product of maya perceives the reality as distorted. When it becomes spiritual it is freed from maya and the reality becomes clear.

 

[renuka]

Dear Shri Prasad,

IMO maya is something that stands on its own. It is my view that the jiva itself is a product of distorted reality or the action of maya. Jiva itself being a product of maya perceives the reality as distorted. When it becomes spiritual it is freed from maya and the reality becomes clear.

Dear Sravna,

You are right in your view..doesnt it match this?

Maya is the Will that caused The Personalized God(Easwara),Jeeva and the objective world(Prakriti).
Maya is like a mirror....
When the Sattvic nature is reflected in it...Personalized God(Easwara) results....
When Rajasic nature is reflected in it....Individualized Self(Jeeva) results...
When the Tamasic nature is relected in it....The Objective world(Prakriti) results...



all inputs taken from Sri Sathya Sai Gita..Q & A

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

You are right. It does. I understand it better now than when I first read it.

Dear Sravna,

You are right in your view..doesnt it match this?

Maya is the Will that caused The Personalized God(Easwara),Jeeva and the objective world(Prakriti).
Maya is like a mirror....
When the Sattvic nature is reflected in it...Personalized God(Easwara) results....
When Rajasic nature is reflected in it....Individualized Self(Jeeva) results...
When the Tamasic nature is relected in it....The Objective world(Prakriti) results...



all inputs taken from Sri Sathya Sai Gita..Q & A

 

[sarma-61]

Respected members,

As a tamil brahmana smarta (supposed to be) advaita follower, I have had the good luck of learning a few things about advaita.

The first impression I get on going through the OP by Shri Sravna (who, it seems to me has his own unchangeable and finalistic views about advaita, Brahman, mAyA, etc., reading some of his old threads from the archives) and also the many posts subsequent to that, is that this advaita topic has been converted into something like a temple bell - anyone may and can ring the bell whichever manner one wishes to do that. I feel sad for myself, advaita and feel Adi Sankara will not have dreamt such treatment of a philosophy for which he spent his entire, but short, life.

I am not qualified to say anything in the sense of comments or of finding fault with the various views expressed here. But Sankara himself never seems to have used the word "mAyA" in his BSB or the other bhAShyas; he used the word "adhyAsa" and/or "adhyArOpa" and in any hair-splitting analysis, the popular mAyA concept will not be Sankara's adhyAsa or adhyArOpa, I think. Sankara was himself very frugal in describing exactly what his concept of the adhyAsa/adhyArOpa was.

Like what I wrote a few days ago in another post, according to Sankara's advaita, the Supreme Reality or Brahman, just is ......... and nothing more can be said about it including that it is brhat, because then it will go away from nirguNa parabrahman to something else. saguNa brahman or ISwara is a product of the vyAvahArika satya and hence a product of the interaction between adhyArOpa and the nirguNabrahman.

It is not so easy to play with such concepts, nor is advaita fault-free as any well-read viSiShTAdvaitin or dwaitin member here (like s/shri sarang, govinda?, I don't know) will be able to explain. The popular and populist concept of mAyA is a subsequent import into advaitic thought, and mainly to counter criticisms against advaita.

It is ridiculous as well as ludicrous, to say the least, that topics which minds like Ramanuja, Madhwa, Appayya Deekshitar and many other giants could not dissect and come to an agreement, are being treated like ordinary mundane items and people are 'ammAna ADu-fying' with those here. I feel we are just bringing disgrace to our AcAryas and other great people by this.

I humbly request those interested in advaita to visit this web-page, download the 8 audio files, (especially the one on 27-11) understand the contents and then, perhaps, continue this charade of "learned discussions".

Hindu non-dualism (advaita) in theory and practice (eight lectures) | The Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies

 

[zebra16]

Dear Sravna:


Two groups of young men (age around 23-25), one group of Atheists and the other Believers in God, were shown individually a very voluptuous vivacious young woman. All of them showed clear sign of sexual arousal immediately.

Then they were informed quietly that she is "Your step-sister, you both have the same biological father". All of them lost the sexual arousal immediately.

Is this not a contrived "research"? If the girl happens to be a step-sister of all the guys in both groups (should be at least 4 persons - two in each group) the guys ought to be brothers, right? How come they were unaware of each other?

If the guys were not aware of their inter-se relationship, then their common father should have been a serial polygamist. Shouldn't the research have been conducted on him?

I think you are trying to pull a fast one by giving a random example and giving it a status of research.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Sarma,

I understand your anguish at what you perceive as mundane and inappropriate treatment of advaita. It is a perfectly reasonable feeling to have for those who are to familiar with the subject, to see it being discussed in this way. On the other hand it is also my view that philosophy as deep as advaita should be not only be accessible to people of erudition but deserves a much wider audience and possibly adherents.

By keeping it at an untouchable distance and not putting it to scrutiny or disallowing new interpretations, is only a disservice. It is my view again that advaita will survive any amount of scrutiny and will emerge only stronger because of that. And let us also not be hypocritical here. When even more sacrosanct beliefs such as belief in God is being treated like trash, why not an earnest and well intentioned discussion to probe further into a not so well understood philosophy be considered, beyond debate?

Respected members,

As a tamil brahmana smarta (supposed to be) advaita follower, I have had the good luck of learning a few things about advaita.

The first impression I get on going through the OP by Shri Sravna (who, it seems to me has his own unchangeable and finalistic views about advaita, Brahman, mAyA, etc., reading some of his old threads from the archives) and also the many posts subsequent to that, is that this advaita topic has been converted into something like a temple bell - anyone may and can ring the bell whichever manner one wishes to do that. I feel sad for myself, advaita and feel Adi Sankara will not have dreamt such treatment of a philosophy for which he spent his entire, but short, life.

I am not qualified to say anything in the sense of comments or of finding fault with the various views expressed here. But Sankara himself never seems to have used the word "mAyA" in his BSB or the other bhAShyas; he used the word "adhyAsa" and/or "adhyArOpa" and in any hair-splitting analysis, the popular mAyA concept will not be Sankara's adhyAsa or adhyArOpa, I think. Sankara was himself very frugal in describing exactly what his concept of the adhyAsa/adhyArOpa was.

Like what I wrote a few days ago in another post, according to Sankara's advaita, the Supreme Reality or Brahman, just is ......... and nothing more can be said about it including that it is brhat, because then it will go away from nirguNa parabrahman to something else. saguNa brahman or ISwara is a product of the vyAvahArika satya and hence a product of the interaction between adhyArOpa and the nirguNabrahman.

It is not so easy to play with such concepts, nor is advaita fault-free as any well-read viSiShTAdvaitin or dwaitin member here (like s/shri sarang, govinda?, I don't know) will be able to explain. The popular and populist concept of mAyA is a subsequent import into advaitic thought, and mainly to counter criticisms against advaita.

It is ridiculous as well as ludicrous, to say the least, that topics which minds like Ramanuja, Madhwa, Appayya Deekshitar and many other giants could not dissect and come to an agreement, are being treated like ordinary mundane items and people are 'ammAna ADu-fying' with those here. I feel we are just bringing disgrace to our AcAryas and other great people by this.

I humbly request those interested in advaita to visit this web-page, download the 8 audio files, (especially the one on 27-11) understand the contents and then, perhaps, continue this charade of "learned discussions".

Hindu non-dualism (advaita) in theory and practice (eight lectures) | The Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies

 

[renuka]

When even more sacrosanct beliefs such as belief in God is being treated like trash, why not an earnest and well intentioned discussion to probe further into a not so well understood philosophy be considered, beyond debate?

I fully agree with you Sravna,

Dear SarmaJi,

Most of us here are not so learned and we are trying to pick up some knowledge by having some exchange of thoughts.
With each post here some of us read up more and interest in religion and scriptures deepen.

Thank you for the link you provided and I hope you too can contribute to this thread that Sravna started.

It does not really matter if some of our posts are not 100% correct becos we are learning by trial and error and any correction is welcome from anyone.

Hope to hear from you more soon...dear Sarmaji..

 

[biswa]

Ok now I have a question for you Sravna..many a times its asked if Jeeva or even Iswara under the spell of Maya... but is Maya under its own spell too?
What I mean is ..Is Maya immune to its own Maya?

Are we talking about Maya or M.I.A. (Maya (Mathangi) Arulpragasam)? M.I.A. (artist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia She was in the news recently (for the wrong reasons) during the American Super Bowl along with Madonna.

In that case, shouldn't we refer to "her" instead of "it"? Sorry just had to lighten the mood a bit.

 

[renuka]

Are we talking about Maya or M.I.A. (Maya (Mathangi) Arulpragasam)? M.I.A. (artist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia She was in the news recently (for the wrong reasons) during the American Super Bowl along with Madonna.

In that case, shouldn't we refer to "her" instead of "it"? Sorry just had to lighten the mood a bit.

Hey Biswa..want to hear mood enlightening stuff?
The group LMFAO who sang "I'm sexy and I know it" will be having a concert in Msia on March 29th and the venue is just 15 mins away from my home.

Cant wait to go(hope I can get the tickets).