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Brahman maya conversations

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sravna

Well-known member
If one takes Shankara's advaita to be true, then what is going on in the world is nothing but brahman maya interactions. Brahman's existence being eternal, it makes sense to expect the existence is a blissful experience. How can brahman being the only reality experience bliss? What is the basis of that bliss? The answer it seems is the inseparable aspect of brahman called maya. It is this aspect or power which projects pseudo realities like the physical world. The fun here is the consciousness of the beings in the lower world is that of the brahman but obscured ones. One can say that brahman projects innumerable obscured consciousness of itself which as a result becomes constrained within the constructs of space and time and has to go through a process to get rid of the veil. This process is what I think is enjoyable to the unadultered brahman which is more than amused to experience the bombasts of the egos afflicted by the veil.

The process proceeds in such a way that it is a learning experience for the maya afflicted consciousness and a blissful experience for the pure brahman. So the interactions in the world may be seen as nothing more than brahman interacting with its own consciousness which are at a lower level. Other than enjoyable the educative part is also there because the lessons learnt in the physical realities are nothing but an unfolding of what the pure consciousness believes.
 

Yamaka

New member
If one takes Shankara's advaita to be true, then what is going on in the world is nothing but brahman maya interactions. Brahman's existence being eternal, it makes sense to expect the existence is a blissful experience. How can brahman being the only reality experience bliss? What is the basis of that bliss? The answer it seems is the inseparable aspect of brahman called maya. It is this aspect or power which projects pseudo realities like the physical world. The fun here is the consciousness of the beings in the lower world is that of the brahman but obscured ones. One can say that brahman projects innumerable obscured consciousness of itself which as a result becomes constrained within the constructs of space and time and has to go through a process to get rid of the veil. This process is what I think is enjoyable to the unadultered brahman which is more than amused to experience the bombasts of the egos afflicted by the veil.

The process proceeds in such a way that it is a learning experience for the maya afflicted consciousness and a blissful experience for the pure brahman. So the interactions in the world may be seen as nothing more than brahman interacting with its own consciousness which are at a lower level. Other than enjoyable the educative part is also there because the lessons learnt in the physical realities are nothing but an unfolding of what the pure consciousness believes.

Dear Sravna:

Nice hearing from you.

You know me well: We both belong to two different world. I am a SET Man - An Atheist.

I have written that there are about 2.5 billion Non-Worshipers/Non-Believers/Pragmatists in the world and the number is growing fast everyday.

Your OP here is very complex and I just can't understand, in practical sense, what you REALLY say to the world.

Please simplify and give the PRACTICAL advice to the 2.5 billion NW/NB/P group of people out there.

Regards

Y

Ps. You are one of the very few in this Forum, who will not be harsh on people of different POV and Persuation; the other person is dear C Ravi :) Cheers.
 
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renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
If one takes Shankara's advaita to be true, then what is going on in the world is nothing but brahman maya interactions. Brahman's existence being eternal, it makes sense to expect the existence is a blissful experience. How can brahman being the only reality experience bliss? What is the basis of that bliss? The answer it seems is the inseparable aspect of brahman called maya. It is this aspect or power which projects pseudo realities like the physical world. The fun here is the consciousness of the beings in the lower world is that of the brahman but obscured ones. One can say that brahman projects innumerable obscured consciousness of itself which as a result becomes constrained within the constructs of space and time and has to go through a process to get rid of the veil. This process is what I think is enjoyable to the unadultered brahman which is more than amused to experience the bombasts of the egos afflicted by the veil.

The process proceeds in such a way that it is a learning experience for the maya afflicted consciousness and a blissful experience for the pure brahman. So the interactions in the world may be seen as nothing more than brahman interacting with its own consciousness which are at a lower level. Other than enjoyable the educative part is also there because the lessons learnt in the physical realities are nothing but an unfolding of what the pure consciousness believes.

Dear Sravna,

It took me a few reads to try to understand your post.

I like responding to your posts becos you are a well informed person with a total different perspective at the same time a down to earth individual(a rare find these days in this world)

Sravna,

When you mean conversation and interaction between Brahman and Maya do you mean that Brahman is interacting with its the Jeevas owing to the deluding effect of Maya(who are not aware of their own divinity)...is it like Brahman is sporting(Leela) around with its own self but in its adulterated form that is Jeevas?

Sravna..you also wrote this:
This process is what I think is enjoyable to the unadultered brahman which is more than amused to experience the bombasts of the egos afflicted by the veil.

This I dont get it..why should it be enjoyable to Brahman? and why should Brahman be amused to experience all this?

Isnt Brahman beyond dualities?

The closest we can describe(by right we cant describe) is Sat Cit Ananda..
Ananda is Bliss and Bliss is not dependent on experiences.

Feedback please..I am going out now cos its Holiday here for Thaipusam and will log in later to see your reply.
 
OP
OP
sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Shri Yamaka,

Isn't practicality based on reality? For example, if we think that the reality is, God doesn't exist our behaviour would be in a different way than if we believe the reality is God exists. Of course though in day to day life we are not directly affected by the metaphysical truths but that forms the basis of our conduct even in our day to day lives.

Isn't it then imperative that we strive to understand in simple terms what the reality actually is? Great philosophers of the past, especially the Indian philosophers have done a lot in this regard. If we really appreciate the true nature of reality we thus would fundamentally change and therefore any serious debate on that would therefore be of use to everyone.

The basic point I am making in the OP is that the reality being monistic, we need to explain how, what we actually perceive makes sense within the framework of monism? It is my view that monism can only be the nature of reality because the other explanations would run into contradictions.
 
OP
OP
sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Renuka,

OK bliss may not be due to experience in the sense of the word "experience" .Brahman being timeless we cannot actually talk bliss as arising out of experience but the point is if we were to somehow break its bliss and see what it is made of I am saying the events of the physical reality would unfold. Makes sense?
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Renuka,

OK bliss may not be due to experience in the sense of the word "experience" .Brahman being timeless we cannot actually talk bliss as arising out of experience but the point is if we were to somehow break its bliss and see what it is made of I am saying the events of the physical reality would unfold. Makes sense?

Dear Sravna,

Ok so you are talking about dissecting Brahman and checking for its Bliss component under the microscope of life?

Sravna, what do you expect to see?isnt it

om purnam adah purnam idam
purnat purnam udachyate
purnasya purnam adaya
purnam evavashishyate

I feel may be you are looking to decode the events of physical reality.But as long as Maya exists thats not fully possible cos we are always viewing it through the lens of Maya colored with its 3 gunas.

Sattva Guna reflected in the mirror of Maya is Iswara.
Rajo Guna reflected in the mirror of Maya is Jeevaatma
Tamo Guna reflected in the mirror of Maya is Prakrithi.


So dear Sravna...Any suggestions how we can dissect Bliss of Brahman?
 
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Yamaka

New member
Dear Shri Yamaka,

Isn't practicality based on reality? For example, if we think that the reality is, God doesn't exist our behaviour would be in a different way than if we believe the reality is God exists. Of course though in day to day life we are not directly affected by the metaphysical truths but that forms the basis of our conduct even in our day to day lives.

Isn't it then imperative that we strive to understand in simple terms what the reality actually is? Great philosophers of the past, especially the Indian philosophers have done a lot in this regard. If we really appreciate the true nature of reality we thus would fundamentally change and therefore any serious debate on that would therefore be of use to everyone.

The basic point I am making in the OP is that the reality being monistic, we need to explain how, what we actually perceive makes sense within the framework of monism? It is my view that monism can only be the nature of reality because the other explanations would run into contradictions.

Dear Sravna:

1. On Whether the human behavior will be different if one Believes in God or not:

Here is what I read in a recent Research Journal -

Aim: To decipher whether Belief in God changes fundamental human instincts and morality:

Two groups of young men (age around 23-25), one group of Atheists and the other Believers in God, were shown individually a very voluptuous vivacious young woman. All of them showed clear sign of sexual arousal immediately.

Then they were informed quietly that she is "Your step-sister, you both have the same biological father". All of them lost the sexual arousal immediately.

The authors concluded that the reaction is biological and is the "innate morality of people" and not subjected to faith in God or not.

What's this "innate morality of people"? I say this is what ALL humans learnt over billions of years thru Biological Human Evolution - a constant interaction between the organism and the environment. Morality is not affected much by "God" or "No God", which is relatively a very recent interpolation (since about 3000 BC).

2. To me, the Monism is this Biological Human Evolution which is continuously happening whether we "feel" it or not.

Similar to that we don't "feel" when this globe is rotating on its axis at a massive speed of about 1000 miles an hour! Or the entire globe is moving around the Sun at a warping speed of about 60,000 miles an hour.

That's the Reality I am talking about...

More later...

Cheers.

:)
 
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OP
sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Sravna,

Ok so you are talking about dissecting Brahman and checking for its Bliss component under the microscope of life?

Sravna, what do you expect to see?isnt it

om purnam adah purnam idam
purnat purnam udachyate
purnasya purnam adaya
purnam evavashishyate

I feel may be you are looking to decode the events of physical reality.But as long as Maya exists thats not fully possible cos we are always viewing it through the lens of Maya colored with its 3 gunas.

Sattva Guna reflected in the mirror of Maya is Iswara.
Rajo Guna reflected in the mirror of Maya is Jeevaatma
Tamo Guna reflected in the mirror of Maya is Prakrithi.


So dear Sravna...Any suggestions how we can dissect Bliss of Brahman?

Dear Renuka,

Think this way. What goes to make a perfect mind? It is the constant learning and evolving and finally consummating in perfection. So, that mind, synthesizes the various experiences and the lessons learnt thereby and gets the absolute truth. This evolution process of mind gives us an indication of what would constitute brahman if it were broken into parts. You do not need to think further than realizing that brahman is the timeless counterpart of the discrete physical reality and we can get all the clues from the physical reality about brahman though brahman itself is directly inscrutable.
 
OP
OP
sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Shri Yamaka,

I am happy that you are using the word "evolution" in your response. One of the results of that evolution is the perception of need for values. This is distinctly human and a quantum leap over other animals. Those who believe in God go a little further and say that the state of godhood represents another leap over what is human and that is achieved by perfecting such finer values. More on this later
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Renuka,

Think this way. What goes to make a perfect mind? It is the constant learning and evolving and finally consummating in perfection. So, that mind, synthesizes the various experiences and the lessons learnt thereby and gets the absolute truth. This evolution process of mind gives us an indication of what would constitute brahman if it were broken into parts. You do not need to think further than realizing that brahman is the timeless counterpart of the discrete physical reality and we can get all the clues from the physical reality about brahman though brahman itself is directly inscrutable.


Dear Sravna,

Is there really a perfect mind? Isnt mind supposed to be "conquered" and be equiposed as in Samadhi (Sama=Equal,Dhi=mindedness) in order to realize Brahman?

Why should an evolving mind give us the indication of what would constitute Brahman if it were broken into parts?

Sravna, what is the need to break? Isnt that how all our problem starts?
Doesnt an evolving mind need to embrace the whole unit of Brahman and not further dissect it?

Yesterday my son was asking me how is it possible for God to be in everyone of us and in every living creature at the same time when there is so many of us living beings in the world.

So I told him .."Take the sun for example..The sun is one and still the rays are falling all around the world.How is that possible?"

My son replied "becos the Sun is enormous and able to cover the earth with its rays."

I said .."yes you are right..so what do you have to say about God now"

My son replied "Must be even bigger than the sun and more than I can imagine."

I replied "Yes..hence the name Brahman from the root word Brh which means vast/great"

Srvana..what I am trying to say is are we supposed to dissect to "know" or are we supposed to let the mind "grow" till it reaches the state of Samadhi to embrace the vastness of Brahman?
 
OP
OP
sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Sravna,

Is there really a perfect mind? Isnt mind supposed to be "conquered" and be equiposed as in Samadhi (Sama=Equal,Dhi=mindedness) in order to realize Brahman?

Why should an evolving mind give us the indication of what would constitute Brahman if it were broken into parts?

Sravna, what is the need to break? Isnt that how all our problem starts?
Doesnt an evolving mind need to embrace the whole unit of Brahman and not further dissect it?

Yesterday my son was asking me how is it possible for God to be in everyone of us and in every living creature at the same time when there is so many of us living beings in the world.

So I told him .."Take the sun for example..The sun is one and still the rays are falling all around the world.How is that possible?"

My son replied "becos the Sun is enormous and able to cover the earth with its rays."

I said .."yes you are right..so what do you have to say about God now"

My son replied "Must be even bigger than the sun and more than I can imagine."

I replied "Yes..hence the name Brahman from the root word Brh which means vast/great"

Srvana..what I am trying to say is are we supposed to dissect to "know" or are we supposed to let the mind "grow" till it reaches the state of Samadhi to embrace the vastness of Brahman?

Dear Renuka,

By perfect mind I meant mind merging with soul. Because as long as we are in human form we will possess the mind. So I would think that in a realized being the mind and the soul are the same.

Renuka, the point I am trying to make is , not stress the need for dissection but if at all you want to get a peek into why brahman is so blissful you get a clue from what makes a perfect mind. Because that mind is nothing but brahman.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Renuka,

By perfect mind I meant mind merging with soul. Because as long as we are in human form we will possess the mind. So I would think that in a realized being the mind and the soul are the same.

Renuka, the point I am trying to make is , not stress the need for dissection but if at all you want to get a peek into why brahman is so blissful you get a clue from what makes a perfect mind. Because that mind is nothing but brahman.

Dear Sravna,

Mind is not Brahman but we need it as an instrument to realize Brahman.


Mano Buddhya-hankara Chittani naaham
Nacha Shrotra Jihve Na Cha Ghrana Netre
Nacha Vyoma Bhoomir Na Tejo Na Vayuh
Chidananda Rupah Shivoham Shivoham

I am not mind, intellect, ego and the memory.
I am not the sense of organs(ears, tongue, nose, eyes and skin).
I am not the five elements ( sky or ether, earth,
light or fire, the wind and the water).
I am supreme bliss and pure consciousness, I am Shiva,
I am all auspiciousness, I am Shiva.
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Renuka,

Isn't everything eventually brahman though afflicted? A soul that is realized, can't its mind be said to be free of all afflictions and hence called perfect? See I am not talking of any mind only of those that are realized.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Sravna,

In Taittiriya Upanishad its clearly given how Bhrgu son of Varuna asks his father about "What is Brahman"

Bhrgu meditates and rules out one by one and reports to his father about his understanding of Brahman till he realizes that Brahman is Bliss.

I am pasting that episode here for the benefit of all to know or to refresh our memory.

Kosas Sheaths

Upanishads in Story and Dialogue

Reproduced from Page
Stories and Episodes (33)

The Five Sheaths
Taittiriya Upanishad
Paraphrased- simplified- abridged
By R.R.Diwakar

[The spirit is, as it were, encased in five sheaths (koshas), one within the other. We first come across the gross material sheath, and then go deeper to more subtle sheaths, the last being the sheath of joy or bliss. This teaching occurs in the Taittiriya Upanishad and forms the subject of a conversation between Varuna and his son.]

Bhrgu was the son of Varuna. He once approached his father and said: “Father, impart to me the spiritual knowledge you possess.”

The father said, "Matter, vital airs, eyes, ears, mind, and speech are the things that you daily come across. You must now know that Reality from which all these things issue and live, towards which all these move and in which they finally merge. That is the Brahman. You can know him by tapas or concentration and meditation.”

The son obeyed the father and after some meditation came to the conclusion that gross matter itself is the Brahman. He went and told his father so. But the father was not at all satisfied with his son’s findings and he exhorted him to go again and perform more tapas. “Meditation alone will give you real insight,” said the father.

Then the son went away and began to meditate further.
Next he realized that Prana or the vital power was Brahman and that it was out of Prana that things took their birth and into Prana they finally merged. Prana indeed is the life giving principle.

But that too was not a satisfactory conclusion. His father asked him to go into meditation again. He then found that the mind or the psychic plane was the thing from which all manifestation emerged and merged again into it at the end. It was subtler than gross matter and prana and could pervade both of them.

He reported this experience to his father. But the father sent him back again with the old advice to perform more tapas.
Bhrgu again meditated and found that the power of understanding (vijnana) was the thing from which all things issued and towards which all things moved. But the father was not satisfied and repeated his advice to his son.

The son again meditated and finally came to the conclusion that bliss or pure joy was Brahman (Supreme Spirit)- the source and the goal of all creation. All the beings are verily born in bliss, they exist by the power of bliss, and they all move towards bliss and into bliss they all merge in the end.

When Bhrgu told his father about this conclusion of his, he was overjoyed and said, “Dear child, this indeed is the highest term of existence. All these five sheaths are there, one more subtle than the other, but the finest and the subtlest is bliss eternal. These are not mutually exclusive. They are inter-penetrating. But the basis of all is bliss, the bliss of Brahman, pure spiritual happiness. He who knows this and realizes it goes beyond all sorrow and death.”

This is known as the Bhargavi Varuni Vidya.
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Renuka,


Refer your quote. I am saying exactly this. That mind is no different from the soul or merges with the soul in one when the absolute truth is realized. i.e., the mental sheath is one with the spiritual. When you have a mental aspect you are prone to be affected but when that becomes spiritual it is free from being affected. This can happen only when the mind becomes spiritual. You can also say that the mind has been conquered.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Renuka,

Isn't everything eventually brahman though afflicted? A soul that is realized, can't its mind be said to be free of all afflictions and hence called perfect? See I am not talking of any mind only of those that are realized.

Dear Sravna,

I feel in a realized soul its much more beyond the mind..the upanishadic episode I pasted explains it well.
Mind is in the Manomaya Kosha and there are still other Koshas to transcend.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Sravna,

I think my reply to you came as the same time you were typing your reply to me.
 
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OP
sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Renuka,

It seems there is a difference in the way we use the term mind. You are using it in the classical way but I use it to mean anything that has to do with what is mental including the power of understanding. So assuming that realized souls do exist they should have transcended their way up to being purely spiritual. But that could give an indication of what goes to make brahman since their evolved state that represents pure bliss is synthesized from all the earlier learning states.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Renuka,

It seems there is a difference in the way we use the term mind. You are using it in the classical way but I use it to mean anything that has to do with what is mental including the power of understanding. So assuming that realized souls do exist they should have transcended their way up to being purely spiritual. But that could give an indication of what goes to make brahman since their evolved state that represents pure bliss is synthesized from all the earlier learning states.

Ok lets clear our doubts..

Mind as commonly thought is just the Manas portion but when I write to you the word Mind I mean it as Antahkarana..that is made up of Manas,Buddhi,Chitta and Ahankara.

Thats why I even pasted that stanza from Nirvana/Atma Shatakam..which goes

Mano Buddhya-hankara Chittani naaham
 

Visalakshi Ramani

Well-known member
[h=1]பிரம்மமும், மாயையும்![/h]
நிறைந்த சக்தியே பிரம்மம்; அதன்
சிறந்த வெளிப்பாடே மாயை ஆகும்!

இயங்காத சக்தி என்பது பிரம்மம்;
இயங்கும் சக்தி என்பது மாயை!

சலனமற்றது பிரம்மம் என்றால்,
சலனம் உடையது மாயை ஆகும்!

எரியும் நெருப்பு பிரம்மம் என்றால்,
எரிக்கும் சக்தி அதன் மாயை ஆகும்!

பிரம்மம் ஒரு முப்பட்டைக் கண்ணாடி;
பிறக்கும் வர்ண ஜாலமே மாயை ஆகும்.

படைப்புகளுக்குக் காரணம் பிரம்மம்;
படைப்புகள் என்னும் காரியம் மாயை.

காண முடியாதது பிரம்மம் ஒன்றே;
காணும் பொருட்கள் எல்லாம் மாயை!

என்றும் தனித்து நிற்கும் பிரம்மம் ;
என்றும் மனத்தை மயக்கும் மாயை!

தோற்றம் இல்லாதது பிரம்மம் என்றால்,
தோன்றி ஒடுங்குவது அதன் மாயை!

பாலும் நீரும் போலக் கலந்த இவற்றை,
பரமஹம்சர்களே பிரிக்க வல்லவர்.

வாழ்க வளமுடன்,
விசாலாக்ஷி ரமணி.

This is NOT only Brahman Maya conversation
BUT also Brahman Maya Conversion.
 
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