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Bhagawan Ramana Maharishi

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K

KRS

Well-known member
How happy he [man] was before the rising of the ego! Only the rise of the ego is the cause of the present trouble. Let him trace the ego to its source and he will reach that undifferentiated happy state which is sleepless sleep.

Talk 63
 
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K

KRS

Well-known member
If you understand waking and sleep properly, you will understand life and death. Only waking and sleeping happen daily, so people don't notice the wonder of it but only want to know about birth and death.

(Talk 244)
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Suicide:

Bhagavan: Killing the innocent body is certainly wrong. Suicide must be committed on the mind, where the suffering is deposited, and not on the body, which is insentient and feels nothing. The mind is the real culprit, being the creator of the anguish which tempts to suicide, but by an error of judgement, the innocent, insentient body is punished for it.

-- S.S. Cohen
As much as its " wrong" but depression and mental disorders can lead to suicide.
So technically suicide is a result of depression.
Is it wrong?

Well..Diabetic ketoacidosis can cause death.
So it is wrong to let the body die from Diabetic ketoacidosis?

Is it wrong to let the body die from Covid 19?
Can we say the mind is the real culprit cos social distancing was not practiced or comorbidities were not addressed or the vaccination was not done and the innocent insentient body was punished for it? Is it error of judgement too?

No..its a disease...just like depression.

The reason I am writing this is for raising awareness of depression cum suicide as a disease cos Hindu Gurus still do not fully address Depression/Suicide as diseases and many cases do NOT get help from society cos its labeled as WRONG and not a disease.
 
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OP
OP
K

KRS

Well-known member
As much as its " wrong" but depression and mental disorders can lead to suicide.
So technically suicide is a result of depression.
Is it wrong?

Well..Diabetic ketoacidosis can cause death.
So it is wrong to let the body die from Diabetic ketoacidosis?

Is it wrong to let the body die from Covid 19?
Can we say the mind is the real culprit cos social distancing was not practiced or comorbidities were not addressed or the vaccination was not done and the innocent in sentient body was punished for it? Is it error of judgement too?

No..its a disease...just like depression.

The reason I am writing this is for raising awareness of depression cum suicide as a disease cos Hindu Gurus still do not fully address Depression/Suicide as diseases and many cases do NOT get help from society cos its labeled as WRONG and not a disease.
Srimathi Dr. Renuka Ji,

Bhagawan is not talking about a body and mind that is deceased. He is talking about suicide, where a ‘healthy’ mind decides to end the life of a body.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Srimathi Dr. Renuka Ji,

Bhagawan is not talking about a body and mind that is deceased. He is talking about suicide, where a ‘healthy’ mind decides to end the life of a body.
Dear KRS ji,
A healthy mind would never think of suicide unless in cases where like in September 11 attack where a man decided to jump of the building instead of being burnt by fire or a Rajput Queen preferring committing Sati instead of being raped by the Invader...or in extreme cases like Farmer's committing suicide due to severe financial loss.
 
OP
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K

KRS

Well-known member
Srimathi Dr. Renuka Ji,

Sorry, you have more knowledge here.

The only response I can offer is my firm conviction that my Guru would not have said something that is contrary to the Truth.

Anecdotally, one of the suicides I was impacted by emotionally, and thought about for quite a long time was a well known Chef named Anthony Bourdain.

By all accounts, he had a fabulous life, yet took his own life.

So, in my view, Bhagawan is referring to such troubled souls.

But if you think otherwise, I have no argument to counter it.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Srimathi Dr. Renuka Ji,

Sorry, you have more knowledge here.

The only response I can offer is my firm conviction that my Guru would not have said something that is contrary to the Truth.

Anecdotally, one of the suicides I was impacted by emotionally, and thought about for quite a long time was a well known Chef named Anthony Bourdain.

By all accounts, he had a fabulous life, yet took his own life.

So, in my view, Bhagawan is referring to such troubled souls.

But if you think otherwise, I have no argument to counter it.
Dear KRS ji,

I have to agree with you that Bhagawan didnt state anything wrong but it would make people take depression less seriously.
Anthony Bourdain could have had subclinical depression..this goes undetected and patients put up a happy front.
Also before he died he had travelled extensively and ate all sorts of food including raw coaugulated blood of a strangulated gazelle.
May be all these sudden experiments had created some imbalance in him which led to some issues mentally.

When we are not used to different lifestyles and food and suddenly take upon new stuff it could throw us off balance creating an imbalance of frequencies which as you would be knowing could have disastrous effect on mental wellbeing.
 

Iyest

Active member
Bhagawan is not talking about a body and mind that is deceased. He is talking about suicide, where a ‘healthy’ mind decides to end the life of a body.

From Bhagavan's standpoint a so called healthy mind is an oxymoron. It is merely the creation of human minds like the family, society, psychiatrists, sociologists etc. Bhagavan and other jnanis have said that so long as the mind exists there will be suffering. The mind identifying with the body as 'I' is the source of misery. It first wrongly identifies with the body and then decides to kill the body thinking that by doing so it will end its suffering. This is an action of desire. From the absolute standpoint of the teachings, killing the mind (manonasha) by tracing the source of the mind through self enquiry is the only solution. Anything else is an exercise in illusion.
 
OP
OP
K

KRS

Well-known member
From Bhagavan's standpoint a so called healthy mind is an oxymoron. It is merely the creation of human minds like the family, society, psychiatrists, sociologists etc. Bhagavan and other jnanis have said that so long as the mind exists there will be suffering. The mind identifying with the body as 'I' is the source of misery. It first wrongly identifies with the body and then decides to kill the body thinking that by doing so it will end its suffering. This is an action of desire. From the absolute standpoint of the teachings, killing the mind (manonasha) by tracing the source of the mind through self enquiry is the only solution. Anything else is an exercise in illusion.
Thank you. Explained it very well, better than I ever can.
 

Iyest

Active member
Thank you. Explained it very well, better than I ever can.

It is only going deeper into Bhagavan's example of the mind pretending to be the policeman to catch the thief. The mind says 'I will be quiet', 'I will be happy' etc and forever remains active trying to achieve this.

The mind keeps itself alive in infinite ways. It first creates its own standards of 'normal', 'healthy', etc etc. Then it tries to live according to those standards. Those who don't meet those standards are labeled as 'abnormal' and if needed they are treated to make them 'healthy'.

We also have experts on 'self improvement'. They borrow a few disjointed ideas from here and there to sell their theory and write books. From the absolute standpoint of jnanis, all this is nonsense. Their only teaching is self dissolution (mano nasa) and not strengthening or polishing the self by so called improvement.

Because of how our mind operates in the relative world it is unable to understand the depth of the teachings. Or it gets disturbed and resists. This can be observed by its reactions.

We can post a few more similar sayings of Bhagavan. Disturbance is often the first step in self enquiry.
 

Iyest

Active member
Death:

Visitor: If a person lives long, he has greater chances of perfecting steps to reach realization.

Bhagavan: The person dying young may soon be reborn and have in that life better chances of striving towards realization than the other person living long in this life.


---Devaraja Mudaliar, Day by day with Bhagavan.
 
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Iyest

Active member
Prarabdha:

All the activities that the body is to go through are determined when it first comes into existence. It does not rest with you to accept or reject them. The only freedom you have is to turn your mind inward and renounce activities there.

---Devaraja Mudaliar, Day by day with Bhagavan.
 

Iyest

Active member
Prarabdha:

I asked him, "Are only important events in a man's life, such as his main occupation or profession predetermined, or are trifling acts in life, such as taking a cup of water or moving from one place in the room to another, also predetermined?"

Bhagavan: Yes, everything is predetermined.


---Devaraja Mudaliar, Day by day with Bhagavan.
 

Iyest

Active member
The notion of renunciation:


Bhagavan, to pursue spiritual sadhana, one has to renounce worldly links, hasn’t one?

Bhagavan: What do you mean by ‘giving up’ (something) and ‘taking up’ (something else) Where to go, what to take? Everywhere, everything is only the ‘I’. Who is to give up what and who is to go where?


—-Tapas Swamy
 

Iyest

Active member
Doer:

Why do you think that you are the doer? There lies all the trouble. It is quite absurd, as it is obvious to all that ‘I’ does nothing. It is only the body that acts; ‘I’ is always the witness. We so associate with our thoughts and actions that we continually say ‘I did this or that’, when we did nothing at all. Concentrate on being the witness and let things take their course, they will go on anyhow, you cannot prevent them.


—-Major Chadwick’s Reminiscences
 
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K

KRS

Well-known member
‘THE MEDITATION MUST BE SO INTENSE…’

Q: What happens to the consciousness of a realized one in sleep?

M: Such a question arises only in the minds of the unrealized. A jnani has only one state, which is unbroken throughout the 24 hours, whether in what you call sleeping or waking.

As a matter of fact, the majority of people are asleep, because they are not awake to the Self.

In the deep sleep state, we lay down our ego, our thoughts, and our desires. If we could only do all this while we are conscious, we would realize the Self.

The best form of dhyana or meditation is when it continues not merely while awake, but extends to dream and deep sleep states. The meditation must be so intense that there is not even room for the idea, 'I am meditating.' As waking and dreaming are fully occupied by the dhyana of such a person, deep sleep may be considered to be part of the dhyana.

- Conscious Immortality
 
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KRS

Well-known member
Past and future are dependent on the present.
The past was present in its time and
the future will be present too.
Ever-present is the present.

To seek to know the future and the past, without knowing the truth of time today,
is to try to count without the number ‘One’.

Without us there is no time nor space.
If we are only bodies,
we are caught up in time and space.
But are we bodies?
Now, then and always
— here, now and everywhere
— we are the same.
We exist, timeless and spaceless we.

- The teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi.
Reality in Forty Verses. Verses 15 & 16.
 
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KRS

Well-known member
IDENTITY

By Lucy Cornelssen

Question: If the ego or ‘l’ be an illusion, who then casts off the illusion?

Bhagavan: The ‘I’ casts off the illusion of ‘I’ and yet remains as ‘I’. This appears to be a paradox to you; it is not so to the jnani.

Question: Is an intellectual understanding of the truth necessary?

Bhagavan: 'Yes. Otherwise, why does not the person realize God or the Self at once, i.e. as soon as he is told that God is all or the Self is all? One must argue with himself and gradually convince himself of the truth.'

How is this? Are there not many quotations from Sri Ramana Maharshi’s works and talks quite to the contrary, wherein he clearly states that there is no reaching the truth by intellect, but that intellect (or mind) has to be transcended in order to attain to the truth? Isn’t this a flagrant contradiction?

Only apparently.

According to the highest revelations of mankind, we are the Truth. Why then are we not aware of this plain fact? Because the intellect has developed from being a useful servant into a troublesome and tyrannical master in the house. It will not and cannot be convinced of the higher truth, because this is beyond its scope. However, it can be transcended and the conviction reached that there is a higher power and that it will do to open the ‘Heart’ to the possibility of direct experience.

- Ramana Smrti
 
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K

KRS

Well-known member
In one of his letters he [Paul Brunton]
wrote, “Bhagavan is 'I AM' - all the time meeting in the inner space of my Heart, where Ramana Maharshi always resides.” Bhagavan was also very affectionate towards Paul Brunton. One day, in his hall, Bhagavan openly said, “Paul Brunton's thought comes to my mind. I am sure Paul Brunton is also thinking of Bhagavan.” At that very moment, half way across the world, Paul Brunton was paying his
obeisance to Bhagavan before giving a talk!

Another time in the hall, Bhagavan received a pamphlet by post in which there was a quotation from Paul
Brunton. He read it out, saying, “Paul Brunton writes: 'I remain perfectly calm and fully aware of who I am
and what is occurring. The Self still exists but it is a changed radiant Self. Something that is far superior to my
unimportant personality rises into consciousness and becomes me. I am in the midst of an ocean of blazing light. I sit in the lap of holy bliss. Divine grace descends and acts only when it is invoked by total surrender. It acts from within because God resides in the heart of all beings. Its whispers can be heard only in a mind purified by self surrender and prayer. Rationalists laugh at it and atheists scorn it but it exists. It is a descent of God into the soul's zone of awareness. It is visitation of a force unexpected and unpredictable. It is voice spoken out of cosmic silence. It is cosmic will which can perform authentic miracles under its own law.'" This incident has been mentioned in Day by Day with Bhagavan.

In 1952, after the Maharshi dropped the body, Paul Brunton came to Ramanasramam. And it was beautiful because he did not feel any difference. When he was there earlier, in the physical presence of the Maharshi, it was the master's spiritual presence that he was soaked in. He writes: “The death of the master's body had not ended our relationship or barred our communication. He still existed in my heart as a veritable force, an entity bereft of flesh, but clearly present.” He adored the Maharshi as a pure channel for the higher power.

- Ramana Periya Puranam, 'Paul Brunton'
 
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