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'Athu pazhakam, ooru pazhakam'

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Kunjuppu
I use Google transliteration all the time and find it amazing, Thanks for bringing it out for others. But your version is very confusing. May be with some editing, it would have been better. Thanks for the intention and the effort.
I was able to understand the original after reading it a few times. Thank you very much Sundarji. This is the gist: General custom is for the groom's family to seek the bride by going to the girl's place. That is what the Vedas say. When guests arrive, the host performs a ceremonial welcome. The groom being an embodiment of Vishnu they do the service of washing his feet. Since the bride is already living or staying there, her feet are not washed.
Thanks Durgadasan for your clarification.

:) so nice.

thanks gomathy.

for someone like me, a simple explanation goes a long way to appreciate the posts. as stated several times before, i am a மண்டு when it comes to scriptures and many a பழக்க வழக்கங்கள்.
 
Dear friends,

Bride`s father himself has gone in person to the groom who was walking bare foot to Kasi saying that he will be giving his daughter and reuesting tocome back to samsara sagara. Here to be higenic the feet are washed by the bride`s father. He himself does this toshow who ikmportance he has given to the groom.

Also are we not having many practics which are intelligent/scientificways .

1. During the 3 days monthly rest towomen it is said that they are THEENDAPARI and should not enter kitchen nor should be with their husband. _ Is itnot the same thing science says that women need rest during the period.
2. after meals the place is washed with cowdung water and also in the morning the frontage of house is washed with cowdung water and KOLAM WITH ARASI PODI IS drawn. Cow dung is antibiotic and with water the dust subsidies and who ever walking in the morning willnot be affected by dust allergy.
3. In the temple male have to go bare chest (even now in Kerala) which helps to get sunrace to most of body.
4. when coming to see bride she is asked to sing, give coffee and perform namaskarams to elders. This easly helps tosee whether girl is dump, has every part working etc etc
5 The Mappilai Ooorvalam is I think to exhibit ohim to the whole stret that he is our MAPPILAI and even now if any body has anything to say about him can have a last chance. (Please note that these systems were prevailig when modern technoligies were not present.
Now a days we forget the science behind them and blindly follow rituals to satisfyourself and show our neighbours that we are also traditional - shame on us
 
Am much eager to know about customs of Madurai side. Though I was in madurai for a long time, am unable to attend our caste marriages a lot. Anyhow I heard, and then learnt many marriage songs from that side. They highlight Meenakshi a lot . Songs like "nalangidukiral meenalochani" "Bhojanam seiya vaarungo" came even as MP3s. But even now a rare song on that side, "Thorana pandalile pandian thogai mayil vizhiyal kalyana vaibhavamam" has not come in CDs I think.

In this forum am seriously expecting customs from Madurai side...

Pranams
 
Does any one have an answer to this?

While among Brahmins, the parents (in law) do the pada puja to the groom, in Gounder community, I have seen the couple to be do the puja to their respective parents, something to take a note of and follow.

I think this is a good thing to note. I have seen this in a few friends' weddings and have always thought it was a nice gesture. Whatever said and done, they are our parents...
 
folks,

is not பாத பூஜை among the highest form of respect?

i am not so sure, about elevating either the groom, the bride or the parents to such elevated levels of adoration at such an early stage of a relationship.

to feel sincerely about godhood in the form of humans, i think, should not be a default gesture, defined by society. what has the groom done to the bride's family to justify such an exalted status - except to wade around in the marriage சந்தை, examine the wares not unlike the we way do with the vegetables and pick out what is considered the juiciest morsel, and then demand an arm, a leg and a diamond necklace.

i understand, quite well, the sentiments of the public, and the invoked sanctity of marriage and the beauty of the forms displayed during traditions.

but, all this sounds shallow as in the background, in order to come to this stage, it has been preceded by hard bargaining, and in the not too distant past, resulted in a mortgage, blowing hard earned savings or pensions or pawning jewellery.

how can a society, on one hand claim to have the highest of moral wholesomeness, yet turn a blind eye, or even condone, such a turpitude?

not sure.

thank you.
 
Sri Kunjuppu asked:-

"what has the groom done to the bride's family to justify such an exalted status - except to wade around in the marriage சந்தை, examine the wares not unlike the we way do with the vegetables and pick out what is considered the juiciest morsel, and then demand an arm, a leg and a diamond necklace."

To thank the groom for limiting the demands at that!

On a serious note, I think it is humility gone overboard. I still remember my late father-in-law asking me quite sarcastically 'so, you think that I should perform padha pooja to you?'. Actually I was taken aback with that question. I think it is a silly custom.
 
Though I am a Maduraiite, I don't know about the marriage songs, but some foods that are specific to Madurai come to my mind. Vellai appam is, I have heard, an exclusive Madurai preparation. It is basically idli dough with seasonings and garnishings, deep fried, a much sought after item on Deepavali day. Famous in Madurai are also Jigirdanda milk and masala milk. People who have not had jigirdanda must try it.
 
I think it is better not to follow the customs rather than do them with negativity. Rituals have meanings, and anyone who has no faith in them should not be doing them. That will be hypocrisy. Even when we so the puja, we are pretending that that little image is God. It is all in the spirit.

The general notion is that the grooms comb the market for the best catch, don't the brides (or their families) do the same? No one talks about the long list of compatibility items that the bride's side checks. To start with, in horoscopes, there are 10 points. That is only 10. Some of the others are..boy's family, any sickness, physical or mental, their economic status, their relatives, education in the family and education of the boy, which college or universities he went to, what degrees he finished, his accomplishments, his looks like height, features, complexion, his job, potential for promotion, where the groom's sisters are married, how they are doing. The list goes on.

After going through such an exhaustive list, they find someone to fit into the parameters. Then the meeting is arranged. These days (for the past 3 to 4 decades) the two talk to find out if it will be a match. The girl definitely has a say in it. As much as our system is imperfect, we cannot ignore the importance given to the girl in matters of marriage. Yes in some cases girls have been sidestepped. But that is not the general fact.

There have been innumerable grooms and grooms' families who don't care for dowry. Not all grooms' parents are blood suckers. Nowadays we see fewer and fewer. As long as we have the soap opera serials running on our TV, our opinion of our own society cannot improve, (exception: Enge Brahmanan, which is no average serial) because all we see in them are conspiring mother in law and scoundrel brother in law.
 
...
After going through such an exhaustive list, they find someone to fit into the parameters. Then the meeting is arranged. These days (for the past 3 to 4 decades) the two talk to find out if it will be a match. The girl definitely has a say in it. As much as our system is imperfect, we cannot ignore the importance given to the girl in matters of marriage. Yes in some cases girls have been sidestepped. But that is not the general fact.

There have been innumerable grooms and grooms' families who don't care for dowry. Not all grooms' parents are blood suckers. Nowadays we see fewer and fewer. As long as we have the soap opera serials running on our TV, our opinion of our own society cannot improve, (exception: Enge Brahmanan, which is no average serial) because all we see in them are conspiring mother in law and scoundrel brother in law.

thank you gomathy for the informative post.

i agree with you that the boys' families of these days are of a different calibre than their parents' time, and for the better.

soap opera serials are just that. something to get people hooked on what the audience will consider tasty morsels to nibble, and will never tire.

i guess, the theme of caricaturing brahmins is a perpetual entertainment value. i don't know, whether we need to identify with the TB caricaturing in TV because, as you say, it is so removed from reality. for starters how many TB ladies were madisar these days?

also our unique accent is something i think we practice only among ourselves. i know from the way my wife talks on the phone, which community she is talking to, just by the way her tamil sounds.

same goes with me. i have a large circle of sri lankan friends at work, and when i speak to them, half the time they do not understand my tamil. but they appear to have no problem when i slip into pidgin malayalam. :)

some time back i came by accident a photo album in the web of a tamil brahmin wedding. i do not know the couple, but it was after the muhurtham, this photo of the newly weds, he in panchkaccham and she in madisar, having their first meal together.

i could but help to have the lump in my throat. yes, some of the traditions and scenes are beautiful to watch.

on the other hand, recently i attended a wedding. i was the poor mama, of a neice 75 kgs. my only consolation, was that the mama on the groom side had a 95 kgs issue to take care of :)
 
True, there is a lot of diversity in Tamil dialects. But we somehow take pride in losing our identity. Weren't we the first ones to learn English to impress the Bristish officers? We are the first ones to "blend in" with the society we live in. It is a difficult call for anybody, whether to follow the prescribed code of conduct or to make accommodations. Nostalgia apart, from time to time, we need to reevaluate our practices in the light of practicality. In 1930's and 40's the marrying couples were young kids. Girls were married off before puberty. It was easy to carry them and it was lot of fun. But now, a wiry uncle has to contend with a bulky sumo. I don't know if the bride should even be sitting on the father's lap, considering the ages of both!!! When the girls and boys know each other for years these days, where is the need for the social pranks that break the ice, like nalangu? I will wait for someone more knowledgeable to throw light on these issues.
 
gomathy,

i am 59 now.

in my single digit years, i used to look forward to every மாப்பிள்ளை அழைப்பு. somehow, i remember there used to be atleast a dozen a year, friends' and relatives'.

the biggest thrill we used to get was handing over the little todlers (2 1/2 yrs age) not yet toilet trained, and a guaranteed sight to see them doing their business in the மாப்பிள்ளை's new suit :)

the next big thrill was to dance around the petromax man, and irritate him to such an extent, that those guys used to shower their maximum epithets (but only after arriving at the temple, and the elders have gone to do their business)

another big thrill was ofcourse நலங்கு. nowadays, when i think of it, i cannot but help to muse at all the childish things that we used to do in the name of 'marriage'.

the ஆசிர்வாதம் was always at night, after the reception. then came the அருந்த்ததி sighting. in those tween days, i used to be pretty curious about all these things and be as quiet as possible as not to be noticed, to see the வாத்தியார் make some inane remarks, which were supposed to be 'adult' jokes at the couple.

one night, i spent under the bed of the newly wed couple. but enough said for that. i guess that was my initiation to what the the birds and bees do
weddings, to me atleast, are rare these days - the result of two generations of family planning. they appear to be more opulent, reflecting, atleast in my family, an upward mobility, unanticipated, and like all nouveau riches, finding the thrill in spending

myself and my spouse occassionally talk of renewing our vows. it will probably be a 5 minute ceremony before a justice of peace or a buddhist monk or a namboodri, followed by a party with an open bar, live western music and hours of fun. :)

THAT will be the new tradition for us.

thank you.

ps.

i would like to share two juicy post marriage incidents which happened in my neighbourhood during the 70s

- it was the morning of the first night. the nervous mother was awaiting her daughter, and ventured to enquire if 'all was OK?'. to which, the daughter cheerfully replied, 'இது தான் சாந்தி முஹூர்தமா இதே எதிராளாத்து மாமா எப்பவோ எனக்கு சொல்லி கொடுத்தாச்சு'. on hearing this, the mother fainted!!

- this was a NB wedding. the girl was barely 15 and matured only a few months. the groom was in his mid twenties. on the first night, all of a sudden, the folks heard the girl scream, and she opened the door and dashed out, revealing a groom clad in his birthday clothes. the process of சாந்தி முஹூர்த்தம் was something nobody has told her about, though i am surprised, as that is precisely the purpose of the பூப்புனித நீராட்டு விழா.

i am glad to say, that in both cases, the families pulled together, and both the couples are still married happily and are grand parents :)

pps. i have heard, that in the days of yore, in times when the groom/bride were still in teens, the வாத்தியார் was the de facto sex educator, that he accompanied the couple to the marriage bed, and on occassions, if necessited, initiated the அம்மாஞ்சி to the facts of life. not sure if this is true. the knowledgeable public may feel free to let me know. thanku.
 
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மேற்கண்ட உரலியின் உதவியுடன் தமிழில் பதிப்பது எளிது. ஆங்கில "கீபோர்ட்" உபயோகித்து நன்கு எழுதமுடியும். உதாரணம்:
க என்று எழுத, ka என்று தட்டச்சு செய்க.
கா என்று எழுத kA என்று தட்டச்சு செய்க.
இவ்வாறு உங்களது பதிப்பைத் தட்டச்சு செய்தபின், நகல் (copy) எடுத்து thamilbrahmins பக்கத்தில் ஒட்டிவிடுங்கள்.(Paste)
 
As to the concerns expressed on the Padha Pujai offered to the Bridegroom, assuming him to be Mahavishnu, especially with the question as to what the groom has done to deserve this honour:

This practice had been there when in the Society a Brahmin lived an austere life, a life of Vedic Studies and Practice, in the strict manner possible. Now he has lost the standing as a Scholar, Noble Soul and an honourable human. Therefore the ritual has become a ritual.

On the other hand, the custom of performing the Pada Poojai is regular in all Karma Karyams. Every Shraddha day, we do the Pada Pooja to the Brahmins and offer them food. This apart, whenever a Pariharam is made such Pooja is made and Food offered to the Brahmins. The Suvasini Pooja to the Sumangalis is somewhat similar, though the washing part is not carried out. As and when the one who receives the Pooja is considered a Divine person or a Pitru, their physical age is not reckoned for the honour. Irrespective of the age and status, the one who offers the Pooja honours the one to whom he offers it. We do the Shastanga Namaskarams to the Vadhyars or the Vedic Brahmins at the time of Shraddha, and the thought that the person at the other end is younger never occurs to our minds.

Here it is faith and customs that decide the matter.

By the way, Sri Kunjuppu , You seem to be in your best of the elements today. I just laughed out loud while reading the last post of yours.
 
gomathy,

pps. i have heard, that in the days of yore, in times when the groom/bride were still in teens, the வாத்தியார் was the de facto sex educator, that he accompanied the couple to the marriage bed, and on occassions, if necessited, initiated the அம்மாஞ்சி to the facts of life. not sure if this is true. the knowledgeable public may feel free to let me know. thanku.

eminds me of the scene in Tamil Film' Michel Madan Kaamaraajan", where on the first night of "-Kameswaran (kamalahasan )" and Delhi Ganesh falling for a 'Paatti's"trick , talking to the groom from outside the closed room..answering his questions(Kamalahasan intends something.. Delhi Ganesh understands something---..if not seen it is worth seeing -- for the real dilemma there..
 
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Heai folks

Dont pull this thread from various cultural rituals to various rituals in marriage. It started with paalale kalalambi now turned into santhi muhurtha. Hahahahah....

Pranams
 
On the other hand, the custom of performing the Pada Poojai is regular in all Karma Karyams. Every Shraddha day, we do the Pada Pooja to the Brahmins and offer them food. This apart, whenever a Pariharam is made such Pooja is made and Food offered to the Brahmins. The Suvasini Pooja to the Sumangalis is somewhat similar, though the washing part is not carried out. As and when the one who receives the Pooja is considered a Divine person or a Pitru, their physical age is not reckoned for the honour. Irrespective of the age and status, the one who offers the Pooja honours the one to whom he offers it. We do the Shastanga Namaskarams to the Vadhyars or the Vedic Brahmins at the time of Shraddha, and the thought that the person at the other end is younger never occurs to our minds...........

.

There is a temple in Kerala --Chakkulathu Kaavu--- where Naari Puja is conducted every year.The temple priest washes her feet and does honour of puja to her, witnessed by thousands of devotees.

..............

In marriage when the groom touches the feet of the bride to keep it on the ammi ...it starts ... the rituals are kept in such a way that nobody is lower or higher or marginalised. Every one gets their share of highlight.
 
Why not the poojas which we ourselves perform in our home during navarathri?? The Kanya pooja. Even we are washing the feets of very small girl (Even a kid). This is just to shatter the ego. As Surya ji stated, in marriage rituals I didnt find any partiality. There are many such rituals which equivalise as he pointed out one.

Pranams
 
I have some interesting Aathu Pazhakkams(family Codes).We are from Thanjavur Dist and belong to Mannargudi-Needamangalam side.Some of the things I have mentioned are almost 70,80 yrs old.I was just talking to my mother (93) and she enthusiastically remembered many of them,
Any way have fun...Looks like Ten Commandments..I have many more..perhaps later.

1.You should not ask what to cook-you should always ask what Neivedhyam for Gopalan today?
2.whenever you go out and come, legs/hands should be thoroughly washed.Normally there will be a water tap or well to suit this.
3.Never Drink water/beverages in standing posture-it is equal to drinking kallu(toddy)
4.The Tumbler should at no cost touch the lip.(Ecchal is forbidden)
5.The ladies and youngsters will always either stand or squat on the floor when the elders are there.
6.The first offering of food after Neivedhyam is to the crows and the left over food at night to dogs.
7.Ladies should not talk LOUD.
8.Death enquiries should not be done on Mondays(I dont know why,but I do follow)
9.If you have to leave the town on a day not very auspicious you should do Parasthanam at a good time and leave from there.
10.No return to your place on 9th day if you happen to go out..if it happens you have to sleep at some other place on that night.

in cities all are living in Flats. In that case how to take a both without entering the flat especially when we return from the death place. I have seen in some places that there is a bucket of water out side the flat and the person is washing the leg and enter in the flat. subseuently they take both and again washing their legs is it right.
 
Though it is not the right way according to our procedures, due to the constraints there is no other way. If not the water mixed with turmeric powder can be sprinkled in head (PROKSHANAM) (A better way is using a pay and use toilet instead-- sorry for my useless advice).

Pranams
 
I just want to know more about the travel tips in our religion.

If you have to leave the town on a day not very auspicious you should do Parasthanam at a good time and leave from there

No return to your place on 9th day if you happen to go out..if it happens you have to sleep at some other place on that night

My maternal grandfather whenever comes to chennai, while leaving to the village, he will say sevvai velli Vadakke soolam and all. What is this actually??? How many are following this?

Pranams
 
The instanc eof havign to tie a turmeric in the "pudavai Thalaippu" is necessary, ony if it is Thaali Dhukkam.{the girl losing her husband,& U r going to se the girl, wihtout her husband, for the first time.}

Many rituals differ as per place, like tanjoreans, tiruneveli, & also as per Rig Yajur, Sma Vedas.
Bcos, In sama veda families, During Upanayanam, Head is shaved fully.My father belongs to Sama Veda.
In yajur Veda, it is shaved in the front Half only {araivatta shave in the front half of the head.}
Most rituals of Kerala & Tirunelveli go hand in hand, as most Keralite Iyers asre from Tirunelveli.
It is for this sake, we shd take the guidance of elders, and observe how they conduct
each & every ritual
My periamma, infact, asked me to take down a notebook & note the details of the prodcedure, telling us,, As U people are next generation, & U all shoud know these...etc...
 
In Meenakshi Ammal Book cookand see 3rd volume she has mentioned aathu palakkam and seer and bakshanam district wise.
 
Giri Trading Agency Private Limited Is selling one Book by name 40 Samskarangal. www.giritrading.com In this book they have given elaborately about upanayanam and marriage customs. You can attain more knowledge by reading this book.
 
Sampradayams. Most of the ten commandments m,entioned by Mr Sabesan are common to all brahmins whichever part they come from. Old traditions- getting almost forgotten
Sparsam of Mathrubhoomi at the time of Thirumangalyadharanam is something news.
When you go for condolence-while parting them you should not say'poyuttuvaren'
Before eating anything you should think of God and Feel(or say Easwararpanam). In the Ashram of Swami Onkarananda, before the devotees go for lunch, He recites Annapurnashtakam and everyone repeats.
arya
 
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