'Athu pazhakam, ooru pazhakam'

[iyerponnu]

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Hi all,

A new thread on a lighter vein...
Tamil brahmins hail from different parts of Tamil Nadu (and Kerala) and the customs vary from place to place, family to family. Are there are any specific traditions to each place like Kumbakonam, Trichy, Thanjavur, Palaghat, Madurai, Thirunelveli, North Arcot, Malabar etc.. If all of us could share details regarding Customs/rituals/traditions surrounding upanayanam, weddings, seemandham, naming ceremony, thottil podardhu, seer bakshanam, thirumangalyam, sumangali prarthanai etc..I think this will broaden our knowledge as well... I know the basic customs we all follow are the same, but there are subtle and major differences as well..So people, please share your 'ooru and athu pazhakam' with us...


Mythili

 

[pannvalan]

Very nice suggestion, Mythili.

It will help us know all shades of the same custom/ritual, depending on the place and family identity.

 

[tbs]

Hi all,

A new thread on a lighter vein...
Tamil brahmins hail from different parts of Tamil Nadu (and Kerala) and the customs vary from place to place, family to family. Are there are any specific traditions to each place like Kumbakonam, Trichy, Thanjavur, Palaghat, Madurai, Thirunelveli, North Arcot, Malabar etc.. If all of us could share details regarding Customs/rituals/traditions surrounding upanayanam, weddings, seemandham, naming ceremony, thottil podardhu, seer bakshanam, thirumangalyam, sumangali prarthanai etc..I think this will broaden our knowledge as well... I know the basic customs we all follow are the same, but there are subtle and major differences as well..So people, please share your 'ooru and athu pazhakam' with us...


Mythili

HI MYTHILI
i can help u much part of palakkad traditions...even though
i born in coimbatore...brought up in palakkad gramam..
my youth years spent on palakkad....i know many part
of palakkad gramam(agraharam)....with sastha preeti sappadu to
kalpathi theru.....

regards
tbs

 

[DURGADASAN]

Yes mythili ji..absolutely there are many minor differences. We are from Tanjore brahmins. My sis-in-law is from north arcot. There are much minor differences.

1. Serving in the plaintain leaf
2. Pacchai padi suthradu
3. Seer Bakshanam

As you mentioned every thing differs. In our side, people will say "Tirunelvelilendu ponnu edukalam koduka padathu". It means thirunelveli brahmins have lot of seer bakshanams. They provide 11-suthu muruku and all. Evrything should be in bigger way it seems to be. So, if we give our daughter over there, we will be tired off by providing bakshanams itself. I dont know how much its true.

There are such differences. Let we wait and see the contributions....

Pranams

 

[klsiyer]

V belong to a sect called "Mukkanial", who can be found mostly in Tirunelveli Distrirct, Trivandrum city and spread across other places.

As per our tradition, during the marriage function, especially "Thirumangalyadharanam", both the bride and groom sit on the floor only, unlike in "Vadamal" where the bridge sits on the lap of her father. This is because, it is said that we should have "sparsm" of mother bhooma devi. Also, immediately after "Kasi Yaathrai", the groom is made sit on a chair at the entrance of marriage hall/pandal, and the bride's mother washes the feet of the groom with milk and smears with silk, i.e. "Paalal kal alambi, pattal thudaithu". We do not have the ceremony of "chuthipoduthal" with coloured rice balls and circumspending the groom with vilakku, et al. Otherwise, the rituals are by and large. We generally, belong to "Rig" Veda only.

 

[Sabesan Narayanaswami]

I have some interesting Aathu Pazhakkams(family Codes).We are from Thanjavur Dist and belong to Mannargudi-Needamangalam side.Some of the things I have mentioned are almost 70,80 yrs old.I was just talking to my mother (93) and she enthusiastically remembered many of them,
Any way have fun...Looks like Ten Commandments..I have many more..perhaps later.

1.You should not ask what to cook-you should always ask what Neivedhyam for Gopalan today?
2.whenever you go out and come, legs/hands should be thoroughly washed.Normally there will be a water tap or well to suit this.
3.Never Drink water/beverages in standing posture-it is equal to drinking kallu(toddy)
4.The Tumbler should at no cost touch the lip.(Ecchal is forbidden)
5.The ladies and youngsters will always either stand or squat on the floor when the elders are there.
6.The first offering of food after Neivedhyam is to the crows and the left over food at night to dogs.
7.Ladies should not talk LOUD.
8.Death enquiries should not be done on Mondays(I dont know why,but I do follow)
9.If you have to leave the town on a day not very auspicious you should do Parasthanam at a good time and leave from there.
10.No return to your place on 9th day if you happen to go out..if it happens you have to sleep at some other place on that night.

 

[DURGADASAN]

Good info sabesan sir...

Thingal thukam tirumbi kekkum- it means if you ask dhukkam on monday you will be in a position to hear other sad news also. I dont know how much its true.

1. When going for asking dhukkam, you should eat something in your home
(Verum vaithoda poga koodadu)
2. Ladies should tie turmeric powder in their saree, when going to ask dhukkam
3. After enquiring about that, we should take bath
(Usually they enter from Kollaipakkam and bath in the well or tap)
4. You can enquire dhukkam on any day, when the body is there.
5. If the husband died and wife is alive, you should ask dhukkam within 10 days, if not you should never ask this to her within the whole year.

These are the things that I learnt from my mother sir...
Pranams

 

[Sabesan Narayanaswami]

5.absolutely...thats perhaps the reason why the lady visits all her close folks within the ten days,otherwise she cant meet them for one year.

 

[DURGADASAN]

I think palale kalalambi pattale thudaithu is there in all customs... Anyhow sitting in floor during mangalyadharanam is certainly a new info. Like to hear more info sir...

 

[T.S.Sankara Narayanan]

Paalal Kaal Alambi... Pattal Thudaithu...in our marriage Samprayadhayam is nothing but In that Marriage the bride is Considered as Maha Lakshmi and Mappillai is Considered as Maha Vishnu...
Just as a Devotee performing his Bhakthi the Mamanar (Brides Father) performs this Ceremony to his Mappillai who is considered as Maha Vishnu till he removes his Kaappu.
Mukkiniyars Custom of sitting on Floor is also a way of Respecting Maha Lakshmi.
Other than that As regards Seers,in Tirunelveli Murukku,Laddu, Adhirasam,Manoharam all are Giant size.
Normally Tirunelveli and Tanjorians will always abuse each other but I find more pairs on these Two Districts.
My father belongs to Thillai Sthanam near Thiruvaiyaru (Thanjore Dist where my mother was from Shencottah .
In our family (out of 11 sons and Daughters) all pairs are mixed with all districts.
Even one sister is married to Iyengar (Thengalai).

 

[DURGADASAN]

Nice sir...

In north arcot side, for PACCHAI PADI, they use "Uzahkku" or "padi" itself, wheras in ourside (Tanjore), we use "Vaana" (Like basin in Pithalai) for that.

In north arcot side, after oonjal, Mamiyars will hold the hands of both bride and groom (I mean mamiar of grrom will hold hand of the groom and bride's mamiar will hold hands of Bride), whereas in ours Paiyan will hold the hand of girl.

In Serving food, North arcot people first serve sugar whereas we keep payasam. Also, their way of serving will be from left to right, wheras we people serve from right to left.

There are lots and lots of custom differences... But anyhow we brahmins are brahmins. Eagerly awaiting for other posts to know much more regarding this issue...

Pranams

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

My response thoughts in blue. I am not fining fault with Durgadasan, because he has only reported what is in practice. My response is to the practice.

Good info sabesan sir...

Thingal thukam tirumbi kekkum- it means if you ask dhukkam on monday you will be in a position to hear other sad news also. I dont know how much its true.

I feel it is to be ignored. Death cannot choose a favourable and unfavourable day. I also have heard that Sanipponam thaniye pokathu. people add on some rhyming words. Nobody dies as the only one in this world dying that day. This is also like nakshatra matter, aayilyam,moolam pooraadam etc.(I have responded in similar way to that context also.
1. When going for asking dhukkam, you should eat something in your home
(Verum vaithoda poga koodadu)
Naturally.In a home where death has occurred, they are not expected to serve solid foods. but light liquids like coffee,tea are served , which most politely refuse , as it is obvious.

In some communities ,in Northern and western parts of India, they earmark a particular day for condolances and some food is also served there.
2. Ladies should tie turmeric powder in their saree, when going to ask dhukkam

understandable symbolic, as the they are not carriying any bad news, and going only as responder for condolance.
3. After enquiring about that, we should take bath

Usually we clean ouselves after going to places visited by many, purely hygeinic reason.May be the deceased could have some infectious, contagious disease.A dead body doesn't have the natural antibodies functioning as when alive.
(Usually they enter from Kollaipakkam and bath in the well or tap)

What about todays' apartments where the entrance and exit is only one, and that in front? We have to adjust .
4. You can enquire dhukkam on any day, when the body is there.

As the incident for sadness is fresh all are in the same mood.Right occasion to console.

5. If the husband died and wife is alive, you should ask dhukkam within 10 days, if not you should never ask this to her within the whole year.

Why should somebody remind the sad incident and provoke them? Let them come back to the normal life. After one year anyway they will be dong commemoration ceremonies, and by that time would have learnt to withstand emotions.

These are the things that I learnt from my mother sir...
Pranams

Sampradayams would have been started with logic and practical reasons prevailing at that tieme.But it is not worth clinging to them if they are archaic and do not go in tandem with present day situations. it is the duty of the learned and knowledgeable to amend the unwanted pracices if any.

Shirt should suit our size.We need not cut ourselves to the shirt's size.

Greetings.

 

[kr subramanian]

Paalal Kaal Alambi... Pattal Thudaithu...in our marriage Samprayadhayam is nothing but In that Marriage the bride is Considered as Maha Lakshmi and Mappillai is Considered as Maha Vishnu...
Just as a Devotee performing his Bhakthi the Mamanar (Brides Father) performs this Ceremony to his Mappillai who is considered as Maha Vishnu till he removes his Kaappu.
Mukkiniyars Custom of sitting on Floor is also a way of Respecting Maha Lakshmi.
Other than that As regards Seers,in Tirunelveli Murukku,Laddu, Adhirasam,Manoharam all are Giant size.
Normally Tirunelveli and Tanjorians will always abuse each other but I find more pairs on these Two Districts.
My father belongs to Thillai Sthanam near Thiruvaiyaru (Thanjore Dist where my mother was from Shencottah .
In our family (out of 11 sons and Daughters) all pairs are mixed with all districts.
Even one sister is married to Iyengar (Thengalai).

Dear Friends, Even though I do not know much about the sambradayams I feel that we can find a uniform practice in marriage and other traditonal functions which will help in reducing unnecessary ceremonies .especially in marriage?

 

[DURGADASAN]

Dear Suryakasyapa ji

I too agree with you in some points like stars, sagunams and all. But, what I feel about the first point is "might be the week starts with monday. The very beginning of the week should start with cheer-up and the boost to cope up with the whole week. Why to tie-up that with such sad things". This might be the reason behind "THINGAL DHUKKAM". Since, we dont know the exact reason for the things, we cannot omit them totally. Might be there will be some psychological things too.

Since there are certain things beyond our visual effect, we cannot neglect them as not present. Might be the sastras and sampradyas that are not fit for the time, will demolish by themselves itself. Who is having the authority to degrade them???. Even paramacharya said that he don't have such authority. I herewith provided few links from Deivathin kural for kind reference.

http://www.kamakoti.org/tamil/7dk79.htm

http://www.kamakoti.org/tamil/3dk124.htm

http://www.kamakoti.org/tamil/Kural92.htm

http://www.kamakoti.org/tamil/Kural93.htm

I think we possess a hefty wealth in each and every thing. There will be sure reasons behindthings of our forefathers since they are not fools. We dont possess the knowledge to know them. Thats all. Even now, am saying there are certainly some unwanted superstitions which are useless, but to decide whether thats useful or useless is in the hands of whom??? Right people will think the reason behind them and others...

Pranams

 

[kalyanaraman1940]

Well done members.Thanks a lot.Good&usefull information.Thanks once again.Kalyanaraman.

 

[Gomathy]

customs and rituals

Does any one have an answer to this?

The bride's parents, especially the father washes the feet of the groom and gives him the respect deserving of Vishnu. By the same token, the bride who is supposedly an embodiment of Lakshmi does not get any of this kind of treatment from the groom's parents. Why?

While among Brahmins, the parents (in law) do the pada puja to the groom, in Gounder community, I have seen the couple to be do the puja to their respective parents, something to take a note of and follow.

 

[SUNDARJI]

sirdurgadasan and dear members
namaskaram
In north arkot disst. in pacche pidi sutharche three jala patram and two deepam in kuthu arduku not padi.
in narth arkot they use three colour of rise for pidi that is white red and yellow and in other dist, they use only two colour not white.
in first day evening nischitartam the first is lagana patrika reading, then janavasam and then the pooja and for other dist. the janavasam is first, then lagana patrika reading then pooja. in north arkot dist. pooja will perform by kalyan pillai . but other dist. gthe pooj will perform by father of kalyanponnu. akshade ashirvadam also to kalyana pillai and ponnu in narth arcot.
om arunachaleswarayanamaha

 

[SUNDARJI]

Does any one have an answer to this?

The bride's parents, especially the father washes the feet of the groom and gives him the respect deserving of Vishnu. By the same token, the bride who is supposedly an embodiment of Lakshmi does not get any of this kind of treatment from the groom's parents. Why?

While among Brahmins, the parents (in law) do the pada puja to the groom, in Gounder community, I have seen the couple to be do the puja to their respective parents, something to take a note of and follow.

dear member
namakaram
Sadharanama pillaiathukaraqltha ponnu kekarthaku ponnu athuku pohanam abri vedam solarda. ponnu lakshi swarupamo pille mahavishnu swaropam. generala yaravadhu vittaku vanda kalaalambartak jalam kurukano. vandaver mahavishnu swaropama erukuthanaley aver kala alambara . ponnu vikttale erukatanale nambalakala ava kala alamberthale.

 

[DURGADASAN]

Respected Gomathy

As Sundarji said, there is no need for "washing the feets of girl". The reason is only the guy is approaching somewhere from the home of girl. He is coming from outside. The girl is there in the house itself. Then why is the need?? Also, we consider girl as "mahalakshmi" so only after girhapravesam we asks her to lit the lamp. There are some rituals considering girl as lakshmi and some rituals considering boy as vishnu. thats all.

Usage of three colour rice and three jalapatras is new info. Please provide much more infos like this from your side.

Pranams

 

[kunjuppu]

dear member
namakaram
Sadharanama pillaiathukaraqltha ponnu kekarthaku ponnu athuku pohanam abri vedam solarda. ponnu lakshi swarupamo pille mahavishnu swaropam. generala yaravadhu vittaku vanda kalaalambartak jalam kurukano. vandaver mahavishnu swaropama erukuthanaley aver kala alambara . ponnu vikttale erukatanale nambalakala ava kala alamberthale.

sundarji,

i find it very difficult to read tamil in english script. thought i could introduce you to this website. it is very simple to use.

just type what you did, word by word, and each time you hit 'enter' the word translates to tamil script. makes reading easy

Type in Tamil - Google Transliteration

சாதரணமா பிள்ளியாதுகரக்ழ்த்த பொண்ணு கேகர்தகு பொண்ணு அதுக்கு போஹனம் அபரி வேடம் சோழர்ட. பொண்ணு லக்ஷி ச்வருபமோ பிள்ளே மகாவிஷ்ணு ச்வரோபம். கேநேரள யாராவது விடடகு வந்த கலாலம்பர்டக் ஜாலம் குருகனோ. வந்தவர் மகாவிஷ்ணு ச்வரோபமா
எருகுதனலே அவ் கல அலம்பர . பொண்ணு விக்ட்டாலே எருகடனலே நம்பலகல அவ கல அலம்பெர்த்தாலே

it took me less than a minute to do this. as you can see, if i read this, i can try to decipher through certain words, but many others are difficult.

hence my request to you. i am sure, that there may be others in the same position, trying to understand what you have written.

i hope you don't mind me writing this note. apologies if found offensive. thank you.

 

[SUNDARJI]

sundarji,

i find it very difficult to read tamil in english script. thought i could introduce you to this website. it is very simple to use.

just type what you did, word by word, and each time you hit 'enter' the word translates to tamil script. makes reading easy

Type in Tamil - Google Transliteration

சாதரணமா பிள்ளியாதுகரக்ழ்த்த பொண்ணு கேகர்தகு பொண்ணு அதுக்கு போஹனம் அபரி வேடம் சோழர்ட. பொண்ணு லக்ஷி ச்வருபமோ பிள்ளே மகாவிஷ்ணு ச்வரோபம். கேநேரள யாராவது விடடகு வந்த கலாலம்பர்டக் ஜாலம் குருகனோ. வந்தவர் மகாவிஷ்ணு ச்வரோபமா
எருகுதனலே அவ் கல அலம்பர . பொண்ணு விக்ட்டாலே எருகடனலே நம்பலகல அவ கல அலம்பெர்த்தாலே

it took me less than a minute to do this. as you can see, if i read this, i can try to decipher through certain words, but many others are difficult.

hence my request to you. i am sure, that there may be others in the same position, trying to understand what you have written.

i hope you don't mind me writing this note. apologies if found offensive. thank you.

dear sir,
iam very sorry. i dont know very good tamil because i born and brought in varanasi i try my best to write in tamil which easy for all; thankyou sir

 

[kunjuppu]

dear sir,
iam very sorry. i dont know very good tamil because i born and brought in varanasi i try my best to write in tamil which easy for all; thankyou sir

sorry sundarji. my apologies.

for someone born in varanasi, your tamil is way better than mine, who is from chennai.

 

[SUNDARJI]

சாதரணமா பிலைஆதகாராலதாந் பொன்னே தேறி போஹனம். அதுனாலதான் பையனொரு காலே
அலம்பராங்கோ.

 

[SUNDARJI]

sorry sundarji. my apologies.

for someone born in varanasi, your tamil is way better than mine, who is from chennai.

respected kunjuppu sir
thanks for your advise , know i try to post in tamil as much i know
thanks a lot once again sir

 

[Gomathy]

Kunjuppu
I use Google transliteration all the time and find it amazing, Thanks for bringing it out for others. But your version is very confusing. May be with some editing, it would have been better. Thanks for the intention and the effort.
I was able to understand the original after reading it a few times. Thank you very much Sundarji. This is the gist: General custom is for the groom's family to seek the bride by going to the girl's place. That is what the Vedas say. When guests arrive, the host performs a ceremonial welcome. The groom being an embodiment of Vishnu they do the service of washing his feet. Since the bride is already living or staying there, her feet are not washed.
Thanks Durgadasan for your clarification.