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Astrology predictions - how accurate are they?

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sunita

Member
Coming from a god fearing family and with a history of astrology related beliefs, i always wonder if the astrology predictions are accurate or has to be taken with a pinch of salt?

On one hand there is the western astrology (Aries, Taurus...) and on the other we have the Indian astrology (based on 12 rasis).

I can understand they are two different things, but how come a lot of times both seem to be contradict each other.

An horoscope (prediction) for an aries is a lot different when compared to that of a Vrishabha rasi.

I dont tend to follow these a lot, but it does make a good reading material in the morning.

even in these (Indian/Western) there are a lot of different predictions.
No 2 astrologer's prediction seem to be same. (not talking about the scammers, but more of the established people)

So, is it something that needs to be taken seriously or just another read?

(query after going through the guru peyarchi 2010 palan)
 

suvarchas

Active member
Coming from a god fearing family and with a history of astrology related beliefs, i always wonder if the astrology predictions are accurate or has to be taken with a pinch of salt?

On one hand there is the western astrology (Aries, Taurus...) and on the other we have the Indian astrology (based on 12 rasis).

I can understand they are two different things, but how come a lot of times both seem to be contradict each other.

An horoscope (prediction) for an aries is a lot different when compared to that of a Vrishabha rasi.

I dont tend to follow these a lot, but it does make a good reading material in the morning.

even in these (Indian/Western) there are a lot of different predictions.
No 2 astrologer's prediction seem to be same. (not talking about the scammers, but more of the established people)

So, is it something that needs to be taken seriously or just another read?

(query after going through the guru peyarchi 2010 palan)
Western astrology is based on solar positions and more or less a statistical study of people born in the sign.Charcteristics may tally but our astrology is based on moon signs that is from the position of the moon.Also there is a dictum that for the first 30years we need to go by lagna and the next 30 by moon sign and the next 30 by sun sign.The logic is lagna stands for body,the Moon the mind and The sun,the soul.Astrology is a true science and not astrologers.I do not mean all.
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
sunita,

mindful of the vast number of patrons in this forum who believe in astrology, my post here is more one of observation of how it is followed and practised.

hope the public does not mind, as there is nothing controversial meant here, but what i hope, is a impassive objective note of a process.

in my own family, my grandparents had a panikkar who used சோழி ie shells to do the predictions. my parents discontinued the practice of matching horoscopes with their marriage. so my marriage was decided without horoscope matching.

most of my family follows it. i respect them and also everyone here who practices or supports astrology. this is only proper and the right thing, for all of us, to do.

i have always had this only one nagging question, based on my personal experience and general acceptance. the key to an accurate horoscope is the time of birth as this along with the place of birth, uniquely identifies the position of the stars at one time of birth.

with as many times as there are clocks in the world, i am not so sure, how many of the times recorded in the horoscope are accurate to the level required.

my panikkar used to look at the சோழி and come up with amazing happenings that he had no way of knowing.

for instance, my grandfather had purchased some diamonds in far away madras. within hours, my grandmother asked him to evaluate the diamonds, and bang the panikkar came that one diamond would cause misfortune.

on hearing this my grandfather, still in madras, rushed to this top reputable merchant, who was surprised but agreed to verify. and lo and behold, on one diamond, there was a miniscule carbon deposit. hence defective.

the panikkar's words interpreted this in terms of misfortune. but he was right as to the deficiency of the diamond.

he has predicted accurately. and at times, his predictions have gone way out. like in one instance, a predicted boy child was born a girl :)

all in all, astrology, appears to involve a lot of study, so that i find it difficult to just dismiss it as alchemy or pseudo science. it is indeed an ancient thought process and i have tried to make some headway to understand it. but nothing entered my head. that is not the fault of astrology, but more because of the மண்டு முட்டாள் in me :)

people who go throug horoscope matching, i think, enter the arrangment, with a feeling of goodness, and with the confidence, that somebody up there is batting for them and scoring a century.

however, as we all know, nothing in life is guaranteed. so if bad things happen to these goodly matched couple, and if they perchance challenge the matchmaking astrologer, chances are, he would reply, that since the wedding, the said star moved from good to bad position, and would recommend some பிராயச்சித்தம்.

which leads to another question. in order for continued good vantage from an astrological perspective, how often do we need to consult the astrologer. do the stars and moon change drastically within a day? or is it gradual? so that a consultancy once a year is sufficient? just like our physical health? i don't know.

and so on it goes.

also, i have wondered, if any astrologer would keep tabs of his failures. i do not mean that he needs to take ownership and responsibility for the bad events, but just note that what he predicted did not happen, he would go back and verify his predictions, find root cause, and perhaps he needs a refresher course, or better still, further education. if some astrologer here, would share his experinece on such ea situation, iplease let us know. i simply would love it.

sunita, one word to be said about the relationship between an astrolger and client. it is much like the doctor client relationship. one of trust and respect. if you do not feel such to your astrologer, seek another one. just as you would seek another doctor.

though, i do not recommend getting a second opinion each time, an astrologer gives you a bad rap. it is often said that no two astrologers agree. again this is only an old wives' tale.

astrologer's practice, just like his doctor counterpart, has a lot to do with his reputation. a few bad predictions and a few more waggy tongues, and i think, just like the badly reputed doctor, the badly reputed astrologer too will be forced to seek other professions, or perhaps a different place to practice his trade. till his past reputation comes to catch him ;)

i hope not to have offended any astrologer or believers. just some observations and i would like a feedback particularly my having difficulty in logging the accurate birth times. is there a + - range acceptable for any horoscope within which predictions can be made acceptable?

thank you.
 
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kr subramanian

Active member
Dear sunita. As far as my experience astrology is only to give us mental assurance regarding a thing to happen. Ihave not seen anybody writing public examination after conducting astroleger. It is only as a cushion we are using it. As Mr. Kunjuppu has rightly said no two astrolegers unite. When I asked a astroleger he said you consult three astrolegers and decide with majority. IN many cases good alliance ( taking into account other factors) had to be dropped only because of astrolegers predictions. In most of the cases I think astrolegers to some extent give correctly the past whilefuture is like throwing a stone for mango. If got credit goes to astroleger if not to the stone.
You can also see that those who are mentally not bold only goes to a astroleger for help. If you are confident theywhygo to astroleger?
 
OP
OP
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sunita

Member
Thank you suvarchas, kunjuppu and kr subramanian for the responses.

@kunjuppu - amazing stuff that you said regarding the "shells" astrologer. i wonder if such people do exist.

you did raise a valid point regarding the time. how accurate one's clock is? i know my sister keep her clock 30 minutes faster than normal. so if someone new is checking, it is 30 mins ahead. would a nurse/doctor be so sure of the exact time. do they have someone to keep tabs on the time? is it measured when the full baby comes out or when the head comes out?

this in itself throws a lot of questions. in such cases, how can we be sure?

@suvarchas - do we have any particular reason why our system follows the moon? is it better in terms of predicting or it is because of its simplicity (complexity as well, that westerners ditched it).

@kr subramanian - i am pretty confident about myself. but i am generally wondering.

As i said, after reading the guru peyarchi palan, i wanted to know how accurate these are or they are general stuff aimed at a group of people.. so it might happen or might not happen kinda scenario but something like be warned...
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
Thank you suvarchas, kunjuppu and kr subramanian for the responses.

@kunjuppu - amazing stuff that you said regarding the "shells" astrologer. i wonder if such people do exist.

you did raise a valid point regarding the time. how accurate one's clock is? i know my sister keep her clock 30 minutes faster than normal. so if someone new is checking, it is 30 mins ahead. would a nurse/doctor be so sure of the exact time. do they have someone to keep tabs on the time? is it measured when the full baby comes out or when the head comes out?

this in itself throws a lot of questions. in such cases, how can we be sure?

@suvarchas - do we have any particular reason why our system follows the moon? is it better in terms of predicting or it is because of its simplicity (complexity as well, that westerners ditched it).

@kr subramanian - i am pretty confident about myself. but i am generally wondering.

As i said, after reading the guru peyarchi palan, i wanted to know how accurate these are or they are general stuff aimed at a group of people.. so it might happen or might not happen kinda scenario but something like be warned...


thanks sunita.

re 'shells' astrology, if i remember right, our resident astrologer, swaminathasharma, has mentioned about it, in one of his posts. perhaps you can query him, and he can give more details of this branch of astrology.

infact, i missed out on pointing out that there are indeed many schools of astrology within TB itself. i have seen some madras astrologers refer to ancient palm leaves, though i don't know how they acquired such.

yes, i am very much intrigued about time capture. not only the integrity of the clock, but now one more perplexing wonderment: what is the right time: when the head is visible, it pops out or the whole body coming out?

also, another related question: what about caesarian births? can we, on the basis of what we know from the stars, influence our future through favourable birth time?

... and so it keeps going on and on. merrily though. :)
 

Nara

Well-known member
also, another related question: what about caesarian births? can we, on the basis of what we know from the stars, influence our future through favourable birth time?..

merrily though. :)


We go on merrily, indeed :)

A more fundamental question even if the birth time is accurately record to the last 15th digit -- you know what I am going to say now :) -- why would the position of some planets far away, some nonexistent, and some not even planet, going to have a long lasting effect when those planets, non-existent and non-planets, have long since traveled to other celestial positions. It is just mind boggling that so many otherwise rational people swear by the predictive ability of this so called science, controlled for intervening factors, are no more accurate than random chance. This whole thing makes no sense at all.

Cheers!
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
We go on merrily, indeed :)

A more fundamental question even if the birth time is accurately record to the last 15th digit -- you know what I am going to say now :) -- why would the position of some planets far away, some nonexistent, and some not even planet, going to have a long lasting effect when those planets, non-existent and non-planets, have long since traveled to other celestial positions. It is just mind boggling that so many otherwise rational people swear by the predictive ability of this so called science, controlled for intervening factors, are no more accurate than random chance. This whole thing makes no sense at all.

Cheers!

nara,

mindboggling re the number of planets, is right. but only if you consider several planets. i think astrology limits itself only to the know nine planets ie navagrahas? no?

mindboggling, re rational people sharing this belief, i think, we have to be fair. it is a matter of faith, as has been consistenly reiterated.
it is upto each person, as faith is very much a private alone thing.

let them be, and i hope that does not bother you. it shouldn't. because there maybe other habits, which are irrational, but you might be practising it, many a times, without knowing it such. just because we grew up with it.

i think, all humans, practise atleast one irrational habit, through sheer habit, whether they realize it or not.

also, there are non horoscope based stuff like nadi josiyam which is completely human contact based.

then there is clairvoyance, which my neighbour, iyengar, had the gift. he will predict, just by you sitting in front of him, and he got this vision.

he had about 50 people a day during weekends and holidays. as he considered this a gift from God, he would not accept money. out of respect people brought fruits etc, and i think he returned most of it. there is only so much fruit one can eat :)

and then there are seances. getting touch with the departed. people swear by it, and others scream that these are fakes. to each his or her own, i say. it is a big world, that should be able to accommodate all types :)
 

Nara

Well-known member
mindboggling re the number of planets, is right. but only if you consider several planets. i think astrology limits itself only to the know nine planets ie navagrahas? no?

Even one planet having a life long effect based on its position at the instant of one's birth just boggles my mind, and that just is me I suppose :)

mindboggling, re rational people sharing this belief, i think, we have to be fair. it is a matter of faith, as has been consistenly reiterated.
it is upto each person, as faith is very much a private alone thing.
I want to be fair if it is presented as a faith, but it is claimed to be a science and degrees including Ph.D. are offered. That boggles my mind. :)

let them be, and i hope that does not bother you.
It does not bother me, but it amuses me.

..... nadi josiyam ......., clairvoyance, ...... .... seances.
There are a lot of stuff out there. If these are benign dalliances like well, doing crossword puzzle, or playing tennis, it is one thing, but it is an obsession that leads to bizarre and unfortunate actions.

Many spend tens of thousands of rupees and days and days of time doing all sorts of pariharam. At least this may give 'em some mental satisfaction. But I know of people who spent lakhs and lakhs remodeling their homes to suit vastu. This morning I read your exchange with RVR with a heavy heart about that unfortunate widow whose father now thinks horoscope match is a must. When avoidable irrational beliefs lead to such outcomes I am unable to remain a mute and amused spectator.

Cheers!
 

KRS

Well-known member
I have been learning and practicing vedic astrology for the past 49 years as a hobby. All self taught by reading various books. Am still learning. I am an amateur.

I have pursued a science education in Physics and have advanced degrees both in India and the USA in it. I love science and the methods.

But when something repeatedly over the years has proven to be quite accurate with predictions coming true, consistently, I have to believe in the system. I think to equate the physical planets of astronomy with the celestial planets of astrology is wrong. The former's quality is akin to a postion versus time (space time) in physics and the latter is akin to to a velocity versus time (phase space) in physics. While related, they are different in concepts.

To me, this is not even a matter of faith. The predictive system of Parasara and the Dasa system is quite accurate if the birth time is accurate. I must have studied horoscopes numbering several hundreds in my life time.

There are ways to know that the birth time is wrong through events and the horoscopes can get corrected.

To Sunita Ji: The daily predictions based on either a Sun sign (western system), a Moon sign or just a Lagna can not predict accurately.

By the way Lagnam represents the physical body, Moon the mind and Sun the soul as indicated above. In my opinion the dasa system works well because it is calculated based on the axis in relation to the fixed stars unlike the western astrology. I am a student of only the vedic astrology.

Regards,
KRS
 

Nara

Well-known member
.....
To me, this is not even a matter of faith. The predictive system of Parasara and the Dasa system is quite accurate if the birth time is accurate. I must have studied horoscopes numbering several hundreds in my life time.


Hi, I can't argue with personal experience, but personal experiences are episodic and they are never taken as conclusive evidence in science.

There are scientifically rigorous procedures available for studying the validity of Astrlogoy. An average graduate student can device one. If this is indeed a great predictive tool that can help humanity, I think it is the solemn duty of its proponents to conduct such a rigorous study and publish the findings in journals of repute. I think journals such as Scientific American would love to publish them, after all such validation for Astrology would be sensational.

Why did BJP government just stop with offering degrees in Astrology, why did it not provide funds for rigorous scientific study of the efficacy of the field that they wanted to offer degrees on? The funding needed will be quite minimal. If they did fund such studies, why the results are not published by any journal of repute?

I think the reason no such report exists in reputable journals is there is no evidence that Astrology has any predictive value at all. Otherwise, considering how easy it is to conduct statistical experiments and how inexpensive such studies are, it would have been done a thousand times and the findings would be have been touted as proof of Vedic validity.

Cheers!
 

kr subramanian

Active member
Dear friends, Just below the last posting in this thread I can see a adv your personal horoscope every day - FOR FREE IN E-MAIL. sIR, wHO IS NOT INTERESTED TO KNOW HIS FUTURE. I think we can compare jolsyam, palmistry, naadi etc to ayurvedic/homeo treatment.
In homeo treatment you have to give everydetail minutely and the person diagonising shoud be on the same level to understand so that together they can probe and find solution to the disease. Similary in ayurveda also (not the new one with para medical facilities) more depends on how you explain yourself.
Let me ask one question? Suppose a person goes to see his horoscope? Is it not necessary tosee the horoscopes of his entire family members so as to reach correct conclusion? Can`t there be influence of family members DASA in his life. It can also be said that his boss`s (with whom he may be associated more than his family members) horoscope can also influence him? :juggle:
 

KRS

Well-known member
Dear Professor Nara Ji,

I never claimed that Astrology is a 'science' in terms of what the word science connotes. Sir, I have been trained in science and I know the difference. Astrology is an empirical art because of the highly complex variables and the relative strengths of the planets/positions involved.

I can only claim my own experience with it. People have to make up their minds whether to believe in it or not. I believe in it because of my own empirical study of it.

Now the noted Indian astrologer Bangalore V. Raman has written a book about why the modern day scientists would not consider Astrology as science. I highly recommend that book as well as his another book 'My experiences in Astrology', which is his autobiography.

You are skeptical without having studied/practiced it. I know it works by being a student and practicing it. Regarding publishing it in journals - I am an amateur. I practice it as a hobby. I don't have either time or inclination to do research and publish in 'reputable' journals. It is someone else's mission.

Regards,
KRS
 
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Nara

Well-known member
I don't have either time or inclination to do research and publish in 'reputable' journals. It is someone else's mission.


Dear Shri KRS,

I was not suggesting you should do the publishing. It is not the responsibility of a single individual for whom it is only a hobby.

There is so much interest in Astrology in India, and much is claimed about its efficacy, that someone ought to do it. They offer advanced degrees in the field without any systematic proof. That is strange. The reason I think such a study is not done is because there is no statistical (empirical) evidence to support the claims.

In art the final product is either a painting or music or poem or whatever that can be enjoyed. Not every piece is equally enjoyable for everyone. Some enjoy one art and others enjoy something else.

Th final product of astrology is not like artistic production. The output is prediction. If this is an art, then the goodness this art is in the accuracy of prediction. A good astrological artist must produce consistently accurate predictions. This can be easily tested with empirical means.

Yet, no one, not even those who offer Ph.D. degrees in this empirical art have bothered to do a rigorous empirical study. If highly complex variables prevent such a systematic study, then Astrology has no practical value.

If it is only faith, then I will leave it at that. But if predictive effectiveness is claimed then I have to ask for proof.

Cheers!
 

KRS

Well-known member
Dear Professor Nara Ji,

I also do not understand how you award a M.S. or a Ph.D. without a statistical analysis the charts/predictions/outcome. I would think, knowing the way the late Prof. B. V. Raman in his books have given examples from charts as well as the probability of occurrences, such an analysis would be fairly easy to do for some who pursue this discipline. Infact, his predictions about world events were legendary and I hope someone would go back and analyze their success/failure statistically.

But I think your assumption on not being able to support the predictions with statistical analysis is not correct. In my own study, I have found that I can predict certain major occurrences in an individual's life, like education, jobs, marriage, children etc. with substantially more than 50-50 accuracy.

I said astrolgy is an art, in terms of what we call the practice of medicine. Even though physicians study the same, the practice and diagnosis varies. As I have said, the predictions in astrology are not just based on easy rules. They are complex and this is why, while some astrologers are good others fail. The predictions, while can be explained afterwards of making them, are made with the intuition based on experience that allows for different weightages to different influences and balancing them. This is why we can not call it a science in terms of each prediction by different astrologers will be the same.

But I do agree that one should be able to study the predictions/outcomes of a gifted astrologer to look at the rate of success to prove that it is not a random outcome.

Regards,
KRS
 

Nara

Well-known member
Dear Professor Nara Ji,

Both the prefix and the suffix are making me quite uncomfortable :)

Infact, his predictions about world events were legendary and I hope someone would go back and analyze their success/failure statistically.
We have agreement! Both of us must savor it, this may not come again for a long time :)

But I think your assumption on not being able to support the predictions with statistical analysis is not correct. In my own study, I have found that I can predict certain major occurrences in an individual's life, like education, jobs, marriage, children etc. with substantially more than 50-50 accuracy.
Oh it lasted only for such a short while! and we already disagree! For statistical significance we need controlled experiments, not just personal observations. These experiments are easily designed.

But I do agree that one should be able to study the predictions/outcomes of a gifted astrologer to look at the rate of success to prove that it is not a random outcome.
Ok, we are back to agreement, and that is a good place to leave it.

Cheers!
 

Spiri2al

Member
Astrology - Swami Sri Yukhtheswar's views

"All parts of creation are linked together and interchange their influences. The balanced rhythm of the universe is rooted in reciprocity," my guru continued. "Man, in his human aspect, has to combat two sets of forces-first, the tumults within his being, caused by the admixture of earth, water, fire, air, and ethereal elements; second, the outer disintegrating powers of nature. So long as man struggles with his mortality, he is affected by the myriad mutations of heaven and earth."

"Astrology is the study of man's response to planetary stimuli. The stars have no conscious benevolence or animosity; they merely send forth positive and negative radiations. Of themselves, these do not help or harm humanity, but offer a lawful channel for the outward operation of cause-effect equilibriums which each man has set into motion in the past."

"A child is born on that day and at that hour when the celestial rays are in mathematical harmony with his individual karma. His horoscope is a challenging portrait, revealing his unalterable past and its probable future results. But the natal chart can be rightly interpreted only by men of intuitive wisdom: these are few."

"The message boldly blazoned across the heavens at the moment of birth is not meant to emphasize fate-the result of past good and evil-but to arouse man's will to escape from his universal thralldom. What he has done, he can undo. None other than himself was the instigator of the causes of whatever effects are now prevalent in his life. He can overcome any limitation, because he created it by his own actions in the first place, and because he has spiritual resources which are not subject to planetary pressure."

"Superstitious awe of astrology makes one an automaton, slavishly dependent on mechanical guidance. The wise man defeats his planets- which is to say, his past-by transferring his allegiance from the creation to the Creator. The more he realizes his unity with Spirit, the less he can be dominated by matter. The soul is ever-free; it is deathless because birthless. It cannot be regimented by stars."

"Man is a soul, and has a body. When he properly places his sense of identity, he leaves behind all compulsive patterns. So long as he remains confused in his ordinary state of spiritual amnesia, he will know the subtle fetters of environmental law."

- Swami Sri Yukhtheswar's views expressed to Swami Sri Parmahansa Yogananda in Autobiography of a Yogi (1946).



My humble opinion: Astrology deals with probabilities based on cosmic variables. It is up to you to be part of the statistic and live out your karma or turn to God and through your love (and understanding) of him emancipate yourself.
 

C RAVI

Well-known member
Sri Nara ji, Sri KRS ji,

Since I am interested in astrology and gained some knowledge in this subject, I would like to express my views on this controversial discussions...If never mind as I am neither a scientist nor a professional astrologer.

But just as a lay man, I wish to participate and post my comments..

Sri Nara ji, claims that in par with science, astrology should substantiate each occurrences and the end results should be as per the results of the applied formulae and should never go wrong by every learned person

For example from science : Newton's low of Gravitation.

In a simple terms two different objects with different mass weight and from 2 different locations would fall on the ground in two different speed.

This theorem is accepted universally as any lay man can experience such gravitational force and its variations in day-to-day life. This law can never be wrong and would no way deviate in its results.

Sri Nara ji wants to convey that astrology should also have the capabilities to substantiate the calculations and the results should be as logical as law of gravity and obviously should not differ in expected results from 1 individual to another and most importantly the results/predictions should be accurate. This way a Phd. course offered in astrology would prove reasonable and every individual who could learn perfectly would not be wrong in his profession.

Sri KRS ji, has the belief and good understanding in astrology. Many such people have strong belief and are practicing to the best of their capacity. I believe in astrology and have a penchant in the subject

I believe astrology is a spiritual subject and a gifted individual can only practice it in a perfect way. The others like me just having a interest can practice but may not be much perfect. As Sri KRS ji said, it would be 50:50. The Phd. degrees offered in the subject would help interested people to understand the subject clearly that includes lots of calculations and case studies.

In my personal life, I have experienced consulting both the types of astrologers and could evaluate the differences very clearly. The predictions of divine astrologers were very much close to perfection. At the same time we have to agree that these predictions can only be considerations as guideline and can not be determining conclusions. Only the time can prove how the guidelines adopted or the results anticipated are correct. No one in this world can rule over the time.

Astrology is a mystic subject and one needs a great level of psychic sense.

The concepts of astrology applied in human lives are very old (Pouranic) and can not be valued with scientific/technological advancements and was not practiced by ordinary man.

If in general every interested people could learn the subject with a crystal clear scientific theorem (As Newton's law of Gravitation) than the whole Universe will become upside down. Some people will become more cruel than how they are now.

"Asuran PRABANCHATHAI Kaduvul kitterndhu pudingina Kadhaiyaaga aayi poyidum"

 

happyhindu

Well-known member
We pray with all our heart not knowing if our wishes will come true or not. Similarly we look to astrology as a guide, but as in everything else, it seems like God makes the final decision.

I have met ppl who vouchsafe for astrological predictions. Everything predicted for them has come true so far.

But there are also cases, where even after earnestly doing lots of pariharam prayers, yet the misfortunes are not washed off. I suppose, its destained in their vidhi that they must undergo that pain. And not even astrological guidance can prevent it.

I also notice that usually vaishnavite ppl do not believe in astrology. I do not know what is the reason for that. Maybe it is because they feel that after prapatti, God will take care of everything and planets can do no harm to them.

In my case, i love astrology to the extent that i check daily predictions for my nakshatram and everyone i know, and do not fail to buy my monthly quota of Star Teller and The Astrological Magazine :)
 

SuryaKasyapa

Active member
Astrology becomes topic of discussion with many people either by way of supporting faith or opposing argument. Just like cartoons, it has become a common item in most dailies and periodicals, and various internet sites.Hence its appeal is spread.

So it is just natural to expect that a thorough research be done with modern situations, and the result made subject to public scrutiny. If the results of the experiments or research after proper documentation prove the efficacy of astrology in faultless predictions, or predictions with acceptable range of aberrations as in other scientific and medical fields, then it will be accepted by all.It is the duty of the practitioners of astrology to do this.

By not coming out with concrete experiment and proper documentation ,they are presenting themselves to question on the authenticity of their practice.

In the absence of such concrete experimental results proving the validity and efficacy it becomes apparent that astrology is only a personal faith or choice by believers. but once it is researched and proved right and beneficial, it can be even brought in as a subject even in early curriculum like first aid, basic mathematics etc.
By not coming forward for this and just harping on by verbal explanations subject to personal experiences, they are doing disservice to human society.

I am still at a loss to understand why astrologers don't challenge and accept to undergo critical experimental evaluation on the subject practice.
 
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C RAVI

Well-known member
Sri Suryakasyapa ji,

You are right to ponder as you have quoted - "I am still at a loss to understand why astrologers don't challenge and accept to undergo critical experimental evaluation on the subject practice. "

Astrologers are certainly doing lots of experiments and concluding on some critical points in understanding and evaluating the results of combine planetary configurations and other sorts of configurations. They have concluded the right way of considerations and prediction a lot on that as well.

For example- Rahu in 10th position from Lagna was considered to be very bad for one's profession. But the experiments and rigorous studies could help them to conclude that Rahu in 10th position from Lagna, in Thulam (Libra) should be considered to give good results. With the exception that the professional success and source of income would be by working in a foreign land - especially in GCC countries (or Islamic countries). This is what I could learn and understand (I request the members here who know astrology to excuse me if I am wrong)

I believe these experiments and concluded valid results if be made public and endorsed legally as correct, than this would contradict with lots of failures in prediction due to many cryptic reasons that would be beyond human understanding. Moreover I think the society would not accept to endorse the concept if it’s been found in par with valid scientific formulae.

Bcoz,

Astrology based on one's horoscope, palm, Prashanam using sea shells etc are to find out and predict one's fate.

A horoscope with certain planetary configuration can reveal one's character, behaviour, morality, mental & physical capabilities, education, marriage, financial standards and any thing that determines the whole life, without having seen and having mingled with an individual.

This makes clear to the believers that every thing is written, predetermined by God for oneself to live in this world. The present Karma would be only dependent on how you respond to your Fate and what sort of attitude do you develop as a grown up matured human having believed, understood and known your Fate.

Prediction as valid doctrine if been endorsed officially than, I believe people would loose courage to live, may develop pessimistic attitude and would never be confident to struggle to the level best possibility to achieve genuine wishes and would simply blame FATE for everything

The society would be out of track.

So, it is better to restrict its publicity only to the believers and let this subject be rational to the understanding and belief of an individual.

I feel it would be better if a group of society dose not believe and accept this subject, as that would encourage believers to gain some confident and courage to struggle to win over life problems optimistically and to be more spiritually inclined.



 

sapthajihva

Active member
........

I want to be fair if it is presented as a faith, but it is claimed to be a science and degrees including Ph.D. are offered. That boggles my mind. :)

.....
You could probably write to the universities, where they dish out such degrees/Ph.D., asking them to explain how/why astrology could be termed as science... also, to ask for observations that are 'scientifically' observed!!

As an aftermath, maybe you could share the details with us...

Regards,
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
amazing this google world.

just a simple search, and i found out about the method, my family panikkar used to do his prashnam

here i quote verbatim... so interesting

i remember the solemness of these functions. as a little boy, i was not allowed to cough, fidgit or speak - all under threat of banishment.

finally, when the oracle proclaimed the future, there was a gasp and sometimes a cry of joy or tear. life's events to be remembered

Astrology india, Asterology kerala ,Mayoora Jyothisha clinic

Ashtamanjalyaprashnam

Ashtamangala Prashnam refers to two things: first of all it refers to a method of numerology which will be referred to later on; secondly it refers to eight (ashtha) auspicious (mangala) items that are used in this type of divination. These items are: ghee lamps (brass lamps with a wick in clarified butter), mirror, gold, milk, yogurt, fruits, book, and white cloth. The divination system uses 108 small conch shells specially selected, cleaned and sanctified. After reciting mantras, the shells are mixed and the first part, ganitha, or calculations, begins. Some are picked up and kept separately. They are divided into different parts of four each, and the balance determines the zodiacal position of the visitor. The selection of the shells is used in conjunction with the position of the planets at the moment the person arrives. Other methods include reading of betel leaves, observation of an oil lamp and the drawing of the astrological chart's outline (rasichakra) by the client. The birth chart of the person is not required. The astrologer begins his reading. As the person confirms the information divined, the phalabagra, predictions and remedies, are recommended. Ashtamangalya prashnam form of divination may be used to ascertain a family problem, a temple problem or even that of a church.
 

pannvalan

Well-known member
My Mathematics professor R. Bhaskaran used to tell, when he was handling a session on 'Astronomy', "Astronomy is science and Astrology is humbug".

Subramania Bharathi says 'Sodhidam thanai Igazh'.

With due apologies to Swaminatha Sharma and his ilk, I too don't have faith in any school of astrology. May be it is due to these three reasons.

1. Pseduo-astrologers and money-minded astrologers constitute the greater
proportion, among all astrologers.

2. Two much of generalisation is made and as a fluke, sometimes one or two
predictions become true or close to true events.

3. Choose any three best astrologers in the country - or even the world. All of
them will not have any consensus on many or most of the ideas or predictions.
Many a time, they will give mutually contradictory predictions. And the reasoning
given by them also will be at variance.

Then, why so much of interest is shown by most of us in astrology? That is because of the innate curiosity in everyone to know the future, despite the fact that many of the predictions in the past we heard have miserably failed.

Since this is a sensitive topic like pseudo-swamijis, I did not want to initiate a thread myself on this, so far.

I shall post more, if our members are not hurt.
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
pann,

personally i think believing in astrology, and seeking its guidance to key decisions in life such as marriage, is a matter of faith.

not surprisingly, due to this very nature, folks attribute successes to the astrological predictions, but accept failures, as 'inspite of'.

i guess that is ok.

astrology has not played any part in my life, even though i have had a jadhagam created at birth. my arranged marriage was based on compatibility of families, as we both agreed that since the families liked each other, they cannot bear the consequences if the jadhagams did not agree.

having said all, i do enjoy viewing astrological sessions. only for other people who have faith in it.

there is a spectacle embodied with reverential suspence and a certain climax. the sighs of reliefs at the end of a session sounds louder than a thunderclap.

whatever may be said, i do not think, in the indian world, astrology is going to go away any time soon. just look at the number of folks lined up to seek spouses at our swayamvarams, insisting on horoscopes to be matched before proceeding further.

i wonder if venkat or swami, can inform us, if any of the participants wanted just plain matches, without horscopes?

i think, if you mellow your tone of criticism of astrology, it might be ok with the folks here. otherwise, you will hear soon enough from them :)

thank you.
 
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