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Are we getting extinct? What is the contribution of movies towards that?

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Oh man, is that really true? I feel sad, though I don't know whether for myself or for Vidya Balan. ;)

But maybe Vidya will make a great step-mom, being vegetarian and all. Of course vegetarians have always looked good. Just look at Pamela Anderson!

ohhhhh! dont go there... about veggies always looking good. let us selective here. after all hitler was a vegetarian.

on the other hand, gandhi was one too, but though great he may be, i would not call him good looking. cute? maybe :)
 
What are we saying now? Hitler was not good looking? At least the Adolf mustache was a definite trend-setter!
 
The present day events are only short scenario. People will realise very soon for
the present day knotty problems, social or moral (inter caste marriage) problem.
Brahmin Girls, (may outside pretend) cannot forget their culture in any stage
even if they are to marry a NB boy, owing to circumstances, wish or forces, etc.
Thambrass is extending all possible assistances to the economically weaker
Brahmins towards education, clothes, Upanayanam, Marriages, etc.

Poverty is nothing new to Brahmins community. Generally, a few lead a very
simple life, though their thinking may be high, either for want of education,
economical support, etc. It is, we who are interested to help them, should join
the Thambrass and extend all our possible help through our generous donation
for the good causes such as, poor widows living purpose, bright students
education, aged helpless senior citizens, etc. There may be some NRIs who
may be interested, can come forward and contribute their mite to the
Thambrass or other Brahmin Associations ( I believe, there are quite few in
Tamil Nadu) for rendering an unforgettable service to our Community.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur
 
In the south, movie has no effect on marriages. Marriage is a bond of mutual respect, faith
and honesty between two people from different families. Arranged marriage has its own
advantage and merit, if the dowry problem does not arise. Arranged marriage goes with the
two families, being one caste and meeting each other (now a days number of times, before
deciding to avoid any bottlenecks) In the modern era, boy and girl are well educated, they
are allowed to meet each other and discuss, if the horoscopes tally or the family's agree to
have an understanding well in advance before wedding takes place. Earlier it was two
strangers and had no open interaction, except for the elders. Today's generation being highly
educated, well employed, having handsome salary, etc. they intend settling down in the
family early without much waste of time. If it goes in the right spirit, it is a good approach.
Brahmin girls must understand their family background and avoid jumping over to inter-caste
marriage chiefly because the boy works with him or studied with him or known to him through
her friends, or friends influence to have a wedlock, etc. In arranged marriages, parents help'
can be sought, whereas in love marriages, the couple have to meet their own crisis independently,
least the known friends coming forward to assist them in times of crisis.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur
 
The present day events are only short scenario. People will realise very soon for
the present day knotty problems, social or moral (inter caste marriage) problem.
Brahmin Girls, (may outside pretend) cannot forget their culture in any stage
even if they are to marry a NB boy, owing to circumstances, wish or forces, etc.
Thambrass is extending all possible assistances to the economically weaker
Brahmins towards education, clothes, Upanayanam, Marriages, etc.

Poverty is nothing new to Brahmins community. Generally, a few lead a very
simple life, though their thinking may be high, either for want of education,
economical support, etc. It is, we who are interested to help them, should join
the Thambrass and extend all our possible help through our generous donation
for the good causes such as, poor widows living purpose, bright students
education, aged helpless senior citizens, etc. There may be some NRIs who
may be interested, can come forward and contribute their mite to the
Thambrass or other Brahmin Associations ( I believe, there are quite few in
Tamil Nadu) for rendering an unforgettable service to our Community.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

I too believe that the phase is transient, atleast hope so. One thing that strengthens this belief is the fact that after marriage, the brahmin girls seem to tend to be more 'brahministic' than before marriage. This is irrespective of whom they marry. Also, there is something great about the vedic tradition which one cannot but fall in love with, when one starts following and develops an understanding. I have full faith in the wisdom of our forefathers and rishis, however, I agree that we should do our bit to help the process. Sathyameva Jayathe!
 
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In the south, movie has no effect on marriages. Marriage is a bond of mutual respect, faith
and honesty between two people from different families. Arranged marriage has its own
advantage and merit, if the dowry problem does not arise. Arranged marriage goes with the
two families, being one caste and meeting each other (now a days number of times, before
deciding to avoid any bottlenecks) In the modern era, boy and girl are well educated, they
are allowed to meet each other and discuss, if the horoscopes tally or the family's agree to
have an understanding well in advance before wedding takes place. Earlier it was two
strangers and had no open interaction, except for the elders. Today's generation being highly
educated, well employed, having handsome salary, etc. they intend settling down in the
family early without much waste of time. If it goes in the right spirit, it is a good approach.
Brahmin girls must understand their family background and avoid jumping over to inter-caste
marriage chiefly because the boy works with him or studied with him or known to him through
her friends, or friends influence to have a wedlock, etc. In arranged marriages, parents help'
can be sought, whereas in love marriages, the couple have to meet their own crisis independently,
least the known friends coming forward to assist them in times of crisis.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

I have a different view on this. I think we should promote love marriages within our community. This is very important, because today, well before an 'arrangement' for marriage is arrived at, many youngsters have already chosen their spouses. Since the need for a mutually acceptable partner at the time of marriage has become a reality of the day, which is good for sure, we should settle for the fact that love marriages be accepted as norm, as long as they are within the community. During days when an 18 year old is married to 13 year old, arranged marriages made sense. In days, when 28+ are marrying to 22+, arranged marriages are not a 'necessity'. We should accept both forms of marriages with open heart. When the girls and boys are in vulnerable teenage during school and college days, it is a reality that they might seek emotional support of opposite gender, and restricting our community boys and girls from providing that to those of their like, only leads to other communities providing the same. This needs a serious thought.
 
kalyan,

this is another aspect, of why we are going down in numbers. i have raised it a few times, but no one has answered me.

in order for a family to replace itself, minimum 2.2 children is needed. ateleast this is the sort of statistical number - the way i read, is for 5 families to replace themselves, 4 should have 2 children, with a 5th having 3 children.

almost 99% of the families of tambrams are single or may be 2 children.

how do you address, that it takes 20+ years to bring up a person to marriageable age, and what we sow now, we reap much much later, when the available pool of eligbile single people is shrinking, reducing the choices and compatibilities.

for example, my great grand parents each had 10+ children, and when these grew up, almost everybody had similar numbers, and finding a spouse within known family friends was not an issue. when we have only one and every one else the same, and spread so far apart, even to get to meet a tambram single, in many cases, is an issue.

i think, between humans, mating is a more complicated process - stuff such as physical attraction, compatibility and status all play their role in selection.. and if there are no sufficient large pool, does it not make it difficult? and since no one is producing babies, does it not make the future bleak?

i think, this has more a disastrous effect, than ic marriages, which are still, if my family is any indicator, a small component.

thank you.
 
But today with the cost of living, education etc being so expensive, many tambrahms cannot afford to have many children, if they want to give the best for each child. The richer, highly educated ones have the least children IMHO.

I have relatives who i've noticed the wealthier they are, end up having only 1 son or 1 daughter and some none at all. Since these wealthy ones who should be having more kids are not thinking of the community and replacing themselves, how can other average, middle class families bother about the community?
 
dear amala,

the purpose of my post, is to get people thinking.

historically it has been true, that with greater wealth, education and status, the need to procreate apparently disappears. so many of my white friends, just do not have babies, and many indians who grew up here in canada appear to follow suit.

so, for tambrams, in india, on one hand, we have small families, and on the other hand, albatrossed ourselves with filters such as jadhagam poruththal, status, education, salary expectation and caste/subcaste identities. is it no wonder, that folks are finding it difficult to match up, with so many factors + the declining birth rate of the past 50 years.

i read somewhere, that an average person, goes through mentally 100+ potentials before deciding on a mate. this is ofcourse in the west, but i remember when young, we went through the same process in our family for seeking matrimonials. there was a list of criteria and even if one did not match, the case was thrown out.

and....after all the matching, then comes the critical ponn paarkkal. whcih is again a touch and go affair.

is it any wonder, that going through all this route, tambram youth are finding it difficult to mate within the community.

sometimes i feel, population control may be good for many other communiities, but not for us. but then that is another thread..topic.
 
The Hindu : Arts / Magazine : Daughters unwanted

this story is not about tambrams, but other tamils.

it is about female infanticide. this report shatters our (atleast mine) notion about who practices female infanticide. and the reasons that go behind it.

i could bet, none of you would guess either.

if you are curious, read it. otherwise, skip and move on.

thank you.
 
Remuneration of priests in some Temples is not attractive yet, but then the growth
of temples is on the higher side in Tamil Nadu. An awareness of going to Temple
has come up in everybody's mind of late. Even all the Srowthigals (Eminent Vathiyars)
are inclined to educate their children in the Veda Classes, (as the children
are tempted to go for higher studies owing to a vast opening with very good income),
owing to limited children or they want to lead a life away from their tradition.
Influential Brahmin Community people can help the weaker groups to the extent
wherever possible to guide them or assist them to get some employment. Our community
issues should be addressed whenever a forum consisting of Brahmins get together
is arranged and highlight the importance and necessity of our children wedding within our community.
Sometime back, in some media, a proposal came up about the reservation of vacancies
to us also as our community strength is far below in percentage as compared to others,
though we are tagged as forward.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur
 
Remuneration of priests in some Temples is not attractive yet, but then the growth
of temples is on the higher side in Tamil Nadu. An awareness of going to Temple
has come up in everybody's mind of late. Even all the Srowthigals (Eminent Vathiyars)
are inclined to educate their children in the Veda Classes, (as the children
are tempted to go for higher studies owing to a vast opening with very good income),
owing to limited children or they want to lead a life away from their tradition.
Influential Brahmin Community people can help the weaker groups to the extent
wherever possible to guide them or assist them to get some employment. Our community
issues should be addressed whenever a forum consisting of Brahmins get together
is arranged and highlight the importance and necessity of our children wedding within our community.
Sometime back, in some media, a proposal came up about the reservation of vacancies
to us also as our community strength is far below in percentage as compared to others,
though we are tagged as forward.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

bala,

I am with you, re self help.

I don’t think, any person with a good heart, should wait for ‘prominent’ community members to take the lead. To me, it is just passing the buck.

Why not each one of us, go and search out, just one instance of help. or part instance of help. long ago, it was agreed here, that tambrams purse strings are pretty tied, when it comes to charity. Maybe if we do not look upon helping a fellow tambram as ‘charity’, but ‘duty’, things might make it easier to sell it to the spouse. I say spouse, because, it has to be a joint decision of husband/wife.

Even 3 or 4 people get together, and pay for education of a child; or pay medical bills; sometime ago, there was a gentleman here, who was willing pay for one marriage – all expense. But nobody took upon it, afaik. I checked out with my own relatives in Chennai, and while the word came back that they will enquire, they could find much.

On a personal note, bala, pick the poorest of the tambram family that you know. And let the forum know, how they can be helped. Ie what is their need, and if help is provided, how will it help for them to lead a better or more comfortable life.

Please note, this is picking on you. this note is for anyone reading this post.

Someone might know a single mother, balancing a job, child education, house expenses – and all she might need re help maybe crèche expenses. Or a poor wage earner’s daughter or son, assistance re college fees.

Personally, I think, quotas for us, wont work. I suspect, that as a percentage, we still get more seats than our population strength, but I could be wrong here. The other thing, is that, the average wage or standard of living of our community, I think, is far higher than the tamil nadu or Indian average. So, our focus, is only towards our poor – I see no need to define ‘poor’ here. It will become self evident, when the needs are spelt out vis a vis, their income & assets.
 
kalyan,

this is another aspect, of why we are going down in numbers. i have raised it a few times, but no one has answered me.

in order for a family to replace itself, minimum 2.2 children is needed. ateleast this is the sort of statistical number - the way i read, is for 5 families to replace themselves, 4 should have 2 children, with a 5th having 3 children.

almost 99% of the families of tambrams are single or may be 2 children.

how do you address, that it takes 20+ years to bring up a person to marriageable age, and what we sow now, we reap much much later, when the available pool of eligbile single people is shrinking, reducing the choices and compatibilities.

for example, my great grand parents each had 10+ children, and when these grew up, almost everybody had similar numbers, and finding a spouse within known family friends was not an issue. when we have only one and every one else the same, and spread so far apart, even to get to meet a tambram single, in many cases, is an issue.

i think, between humans, mating is a more complicated process - stuff such as physical attraction, compatibility and status all play their role in selection.. and if there are no sufficient large pool, does it not make it difficult? and since no one is producing babies, does it not make the future bleak?

i think, this has more a disastrous effect, than ic marriages, which are still, if my family is any indicator, a small component.

thank you.

I think this is an ambitious proposal. I have one recent instance when I was encountered with this kind of idea. One of the old mutts in tirunelveli districts is not finding good students to learn vedas in their patashala. The caretaker approached few of the middle aged & young patrons including me with a suggestion that the patrons yield one additional child to be brought up for vedic learning. He also had a suggestion if the child born is girl instead of boy. His belief is that when affluent and middle-class segments send children to veda patashala, the children would not be learning for the need of security but for interest of vedas. However, most of the couples are not very inclined towards that as there are a number of practical difficulties in achieving this. I think it will be similar case if we approach young couples with idea of more children, also who knows how future would span out on economy and other aspects. But, it can be a very great help if this can be achieved. In fact, through tacit goverment initiative, a larger brahmin community can be created. For example, like TN govt today is sponsoring cows and cattles for certain set of farmers, which is indirectly helping stop the dwindling cow population, there can be institutionalization of vaideekam as a profession and support to generate more vaideeka families (indirectly brahmin families). But, since the govt is 'secular', I dont know if can be 'caste based' program from goverment. But, if someone like today's TN CM wishes, it can be tacitly achieved. We can have tamilnadu brahmins association or someone put in a word to CM somehow.
 
The problem has come because we brahmins started educating our girls taking the advice of the British (Christian) priests and nuns, sometime in the last century. So brahmins gave up learning sanskrit and scriptures and both brahmin boys and girls went to English schools, then to colleges, got degrees and took up different 'jobs' outside their homes. That was the starting point of the breakdown of our traditional households and their inner strength.

Today, our girls are earning as much or even more than what our brahmin boys earn. Also they have become fewer in number. Therefore, now the girls to be married and their parents dictate the conditions, and the boys and their parents have to simply obey. This will ultimately lead to many unsatisfactory results and there will be no "braahmana" family after say, 100 years.

All the talk going on here is just like self-consoling like we tell small children, "bhayappaDAthE, oovvaa ellaam reNDu nALile SariyaayuDum, appuRam chocolate thinnalaam", etc.
 
I understand your anxiety and appreciate your statement of feelings.
We are only in the transient period. Some of our women did not want
to beget girls in the last decade and a little before and adopted irrelevant
methods not to have girls. That is the result, we feel shortage of girls now
a days in our community. Education is not given priority in India only,
even Muslim Countries have come forward to educate their children of
both sex. This is a Universal transformation. Education and Employment
are required to have self protection but that does not mean one has to
have a claim superiority over the other. This is like a Coin. Choose and Choice
are two sides. Earlier we had seen the other side and now we see the turning
point. That is what is history of a Cycle. Let us not repent for it. Things
will become normal in a couple of years. By then, the lessons learnt by the
existing lot (on account of inter caste marriages, etc) will be available for the
younger generation to feel the pulse.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur
 
anamika,

i would go on with kalyan's suggestion. we may not be able to meet in person, or get a skinandbones vathiar or teacher. but the internet is a feasible option.

it can be workable.

Hi Kunjuppu Sir and Kalyan Sir,

I would like to differ from your view reg. learning vedas thro the net. It may be workable but I would like to keep it as the last resort. I have the experience of a real veda class and I feel that more than the slokas and chanting, the atmosphere of the place, the vibrations, the dress sense, the sanctity and the feel there will be completely missing in a net class. I feel these constitute the essence and divinity which are instilled in a student learning the vedas. And I feel learning thro net may be possible for elder people who really have the urge to learn vedas, but for today's children - to make them sit still in a place for 10 mts quietly is a herculean task. This is very difficult unless they have a LIVE master who makes them learn under his eyes; that's the reason why I wanted vacation classes for vedas where students can learn DIRECTLY from a master/GURU.

Thanks
anamika
 
Saw one more wedding invitation today. It read something like this - pouthri of xxxx iyer, puthri of jagadeesan, douhitri.... etc will be given as kannika daanam to pouthran of kuppusamy, puthran of rajendran... etc, with the blessings of kanchi kamakoti peedathipathi etc... I checked and found out that it is indeed 'intercaste' marriage with the boy from NB family. It is really shocking that brahmins are now giving away girls in marriage without any regret through proper brahmin-like ceremony and even invoke peetadhipathi's name here. Did they really bless this marriage? Also, what is the vedic sanction of kannika daanam across caste? I think the flood is way over the head now (thalaikku mele vellam). We can only pray to the almighty and do whatever bit we can...
 
Hi Kunjuppu Sir and Kalyan Sir,

I would like to differ from your view reg. learning vedas thro the net. It may be workable but I would like to keep it as the last resort. I have the experience of a real veda class and I feel that more than the slokas and chanting, the atmosphere of the place, the vibrations, the dress sense, the sanctity and the feel there will be completely missing in a net class. I feel these constitute the essence and divinity which are instilled in a student learning the vedas. And I feel learning thro net may be possible for elder people who really have the urge to learn vedas, but for today's children - to make them sit still in a place for 10 mts quietly is a herculean task. This is very difficult unless they have a LIVE master who makes them learn under his eyes; that's the reason why I wanted vacation classes for vedas where students can learn DIRECTLY from a master/GURU.

Thanks
anamika

I agree. We should keep it as last resort, ie it is better than not having a class at all.
 
I understand your anxiety and appreciate your statement of feelings.
We are only in the transient period. Some of our women did not want
to beget girls in the last decade and a little before and adopted irrelevant
methods not to have girls. That is the result, we feel shortage of girls now
a days in our community. Education is not given priority in India only,
even Muslim Countries have come forward to educate their children of
both sex. This is a Universal transformation. Education and Employment
are required to have self protection but that does not mean one has to
have a claim superiority over the other. This is like a Coin. Choose and Choice
are two sides. Earlier we had seen the other side and now we see the turning
point. That is what is history of a Cycle. Let us not repent for it. Things
will become normal in a couple of years. By then, the lessons learnt by the
existing lot (on account of inter caste marriages, etc) will be available for the
younger generation to feel the pulse.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

It can become a lessons learnt, provide the affected parties come out in open and speak about things. I am not sure how many of the issues really come out in open.
 
The problem has come because we brahmins started educating our girls taking the advice of the British (Christian) priests and nuns, sometime in the last century. So brahmins gave up learning sanskrit and scriptures and both brahmin boys and girls went to English schools, then to colleges, got degrees and took up different 'jobs' outside their homes. That was the starting point of the breakdown of our traditional households and their inner strength.

Today, our girls are earning as much or even more than what our brahmin boys earn. Also they have become fewer in number. Therefore, now the girls to be married and their parents dictate the conditions, and the boys and their parents have to simply obey. This will ultimately lead to many unsatisfactory results and there will be no "braahmana" family after say, 100 years.

All the talk going on here is just like self-consoling like we tell small children, "bhayappaDAthE, oovvaa ellaam reNDu nALile SariyaayuDum, appuRam chocolate thinnalaam", etc.

Completely agree. But, we need to look at a realistic, via-media solution for this. It will be impossible to turn the entire brahmin society towards sanskrit, vedas and religious learning, in this age. Even to get a portion of the population convinced of it is a herculean task, as by nature people are materialistic and only a few seek to learn vedic things especially when they are religious and are able to see that learning vedas is a religious upliftment. I think we need a multi-faceted solution to this - promote vedas as much as possible, bring awareness by talking about impact of intercaste marriage at material level on our unmarried boys and family children, make people understand the reality of what life after marriage is vs what the imagination of person in love is, bring awareness about how 'caste' is still huge psychological obsession for tamil NBs more than tambrams, promote open discussions on the subject/topic, bring awareness to the boys of tambram community that they and their likes are impacted due to girls marrying outside so that they can try and atleast prevent their sisters & cousins take the wrong option, etc... We cannot be looking at ideal solutions like moving the entire brahmin community to vedas etc, it will never happen and it was never like that even historically.
 
Saw one more wedding invitation today. It read something like this - pouthri of xxxx iyer, puthri of jagadeesan, douhitri.... etc will be given as kannika daanam to pouthran of kuppusamy, puthran of rajendran... etc, with the blessings of kanchi kamakoti peedathipathi etc... I checked and found out that it is indeed 'intercaste' marriage with the boy from NB family. It is really shocking that brahmins are now giving away girls in marriage without any regret through proper brahmin-like ceremony and even invoke peetadhipathi's name here. Did they really bless this marriage? Also, what is the vedic sanction of kannika daanam across caste? I think the flood is way over the head now (thalaikku mele vellam). We can only pray to the almighty and do whatever bit we can...


Dear sir,

Kanchi kamakoti peedathipathi has only auspicious thoughts for the world(Jagat Hita)..therefore his name was invoke here.

Would he choose not to bless any auspicious occasion?

That way we can also say "why invoke name of deities..did they choose to bless the occasion?"
 
Dear sir,

Kanchi kamakoti peedathipathi has only auspicious thoughts for the world(Jagat Hita)..therefore his name was invoke here.

Would he choose not to bless any auspicious occasion?

That way we can also say "why invoke name of deities..did they choose to bless the occasion?"

Well, you are making this statement with the premise that intercaste marriage is not 'Ahita'. Secondly, a general blessing of 'may all be well' (lokaha samastha sukino bavanthu) is fine. But, if we take someone's name and say that this wedding has been conducted by their 'blessing', it implies that the person has given a scriptural saction to the wedding. Unless there is an explicit sanction from the person, we cannot use the name. This applies to not just religious heads. Even when we take any celebrities name for functions, it is imperative that we take their agreement before we use their names. In the case of peetadhipathis, especially when we are doing a non-religiously-sanctioned activity, if we want to use their names, I think it is a basic requirement that we take the permission. If we are confident that peetadhipadhis will bless this, then we can go and seek their consent and then put the name. I really dont know whether in this case people did this or not. But, in my view, since peetadhipadhis go by vedic and shastric tenets, this kind of wedding would not be accepted in 'religious' terms. However, from material, worldly purposes any wedding is fine. Net-net, what is happening is 'koozhukkum aasai, meesaikkum aasai'... People dont care about religion, tradition etc, but dont want any 'deiva kuttham', so seek blessings. But, in my view, when people go against the basic principles, all these blessings will help only upto some extent. Intercaste marriages are harmful to the greatest religion of the world. Arjuna tells krishna in the first chapter of gita - war creates destruction of warriors & good kings, this can create anarchy, which can inturn lead to 'intercaste marriages' (varna samkara), and 'intercaste mixed world' is equivalent to hell (samkaraha narakaha eva). Bhagavan accepts this statement of arjuna and doesnt contest it. So, atleast from religious view, intercaste marriage is 'ahitam' and not 'hitam'.
 
If one follows the right method, it is a customary practice to submit an invitation to the
Mutt for Acharya's blessings. The above practice is a novel one and perhaps, it appears
to be a method of regularisation of an event. I read inter-caste marriage incidents in a Book recently.
We are leading where, we do not know. Girls when they go for employment, sometimes they
forget their origin and the background of the family. If the present trend continues,
we all have to take into note that inter-caste marriage system will severely affect and harm
our tradition very badly. Children due to emotion, love factor, get married without knowing the
implications. After marriage, may be after sometime only, they start understanding the value of
tradition, religious aspects, food habits, culture, etc, once when they come into conflict.

In olden days, elders used to say that Brahmin Boys are not supposed to grow Mustache.
They need to do Sandhya Ritual regularly thrice a day. Must recite at least some Vedas/Slokas
daily. In the brahmin houses, one must do Athithi Sathkaara (serving food to Athithis or Guests)
and Bhiksha Dhana to Vedic Students. People must do homam regularly at periodical intervals.
It may be a wonder, how many practice all these. Some say excuses owing to time factor, etc.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur
 
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