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Are we getting extinct? What is the contribution of movies towards that?

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Sarma-61

If you notice our community girls, they do very well in their studies and
they also easily get jobs nowadays without any problem in IT Sector,
particularly through Campus Recruitments. Further the present day Girls,
because of their exposure to the educational world and having a fair
idea on the economical background of their family background, have a very
clear idea and thinking power and above all have a fair knowledge to
appraise their parents about their choice and impress upon them in
a convincing manner. In some cases, parents also delay the marriages,
either owing to non-availability of boys of equal status to their girls and
sometimes proper match horoscopes are not available. All this process
paves the way, at odd cases, girls slip out of their hands leading to
selecting their life companion in the office where they are employed.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

Shri Balasubramanian sir,

I agree that most tamil brahmin parents now try very hard to see that their sons and daughters become engineers or doctors. This is something like a craze, and youngsters whose parents cannot afford such costly studies simply pester their parents and finally form a very bad and poor opinion (like useless people who simply enjoyed and produced children, and all that) about their parents also. That is one aspect which I think has not come up in this forum, nor is it relevant for the people here. But such a world exists.

The comparatively well-off girls who study engineering/medicine always see their parents imitating the western values, ways of living, etc., and pretend that they are thus becoming very cultured and civilized than those who do not (cannot/do not know about) the western ways. For example I will say, dining table and chairs, using fork and spoons, going out often to posh hotels for night meals and then talking about the many fashionable preparations which they like, which hotel makes which item best, and so on, and making a habit of eating ice creams, potato chips sold in packets by big companies, making noodles at home, etc. Slowly and inevitably, the "loose" atmosphere at home makes the girls think that they will have to do something better and more fashionable than their parents did and she starts loving an equally westernized non-brahmin boy and finally marries him. (thaay eTTaDi paanchaa kuTTi patthaDi paayum, as the saying goes.)

So, in my view it is the parents who are the cause of all these inter-caste, etc., marriages and not reasons like exposure to educational world, far idea of economic background of parents, and all that. It looks to me as though some girl in your immediate circle has gone for marrying non-brahmin and you are trying to somehow justify it and find peace of mind. Pardon me if I am wrong, sir.
 
Smt. Anamika,

I do not know what you really hope to gain by sending your child for learning vedas. I don't know who gave you this idea but it will most probably make your children to start disliking vedas, mantras and the rest, as they grow up. Assuming that you find a very learned vedic scholar to teach vedas to your child, he may at best teach the loud recitation pattern (the swaras) and very little beyond that.

My suggestion is that you and your husband should lead your children by setting example. If you are yourself high-profile and westernized couple, it is futile to dream of bringing up your children the way you want. They will follow you and only you. In Malayalam we say "matthan kutthiyaal kumbaLam muLaykkumO?", meaning, if we sow the seeds of pumpkin, will you get "ash gourd" growing?

So, try learning slokas, mantras etc., yourself and recite as sincerely and beautifully as you can, during early mornings - even if you have kitchen work, etc., during that also you may recite from memory - and your children will naturally grow up liking our scriptures and will try to learn from various sources as they grow up.
 
Depends on what one considers the "purer' form. I have immense respect for acharyas of chinmaya mission and of art of living. Both these organisations offer guidance to their followers in how to live life.

While chinmaya mission comes across primarily as a vedanta group, art of living is a yoga group (though sri sri and the acharyas of aol also bring in vedanta in their teachings). Both of these are not veda groups, and none are involved in researching the origins of various schools that make up hinduism.

Me thinks the context of what is "purer hinduism" is very subjective and relative...

Smt. HappyHindu,

According to me the versions doled out by chinmaya mission/aol/ramakrishna mutt/satyasaibaba and others are all "refined" hinduism which suits the purpose of the organizations each professing their versions. The truer versions of hinduism can be learnt for the Shankara mathams like Sringeri, or from authentic scholars, some of whom are said to be living in Varanasi, Maharashtra, etc.
 
Wow just wow! I see lots of judgemental folk(s) around. No surprises I guess. But i want to share one thing that I have seen myself from parent's friends' kids, relatives, acquaintances and son on. When we start casting apersions and judging other people's children, daughters, sons and parents, tomorrow our child may end up doing the same intercaste marriage thing. I believe that is nature's way of saying "you spoke too soon, friend!". So let us not point fingers and judge others, shall we?
 
sanatana dharma has encouraged multiple schools of thought ane following; chinmaya or srisri versions are welcome; they will survive or perish depending on their inner strength. So is melamaruvattur school of devotion. Many tambrams are associated with melamaruvattur eventhough it is of non brahmin origin.

Smt. HappyHindu,

According to me the versions doled out by chinmaya mission/aol/ramakrishna mutt/satyasaibaba and others are all "refined" hinduism which suits the purpose of the organizations each professing their versions. The truer versions of hinduism can be learnt for the Shankara mathams like Sringeri, or from authentic scholars, some of whom are said to be living in Varanasi, Maharashtra, etc.
 
Shri Balasubramanian sir,

I agree that most tamil brahmin parents now try very hard to see that their sons and daughters become engineers or doctors. This is something like a craze, and youngsters whose parents cannot afford such costly studies simply pester their parents and finally form a very bad and poor opinion (like useless people who simply enjoyed and produced children, and all that) about their parents also. That is one aspect which I think has not come up in this forum, nor is it relevant for the people here. But such a world exists.

The comparatively well-off girls who study engineering/medicine always see their parents imitating the western values, ways of living, etc., and pretend that they are thus becoming very cultured and civilized than those who do not (cannot/do not know about) the western ways. For example I will say, dining table and chairs, using fork and spoons, going out often to posh hotels for night meals and then talking about the many fashionable preparations which they like, which hotel makes which item best, and so on, and making a habit of eating ice creams, potato chips sold in packets by big companies, making noodles at home, etc. Slowly and inevitably, the "loose" atmosphere at home makes the girls think that they will have to do something better and more fashionable than their parents did and she starts loving an equally westernized non-brahmin boy and finally marries him. (thaay eTTaDi paanchaa kuTTi patthaDi paayum, as the saying goes.)

So, in my view it is the parents who are the cause of all these inter-caste, etc., marriages and not reasons like exposure to educational world, far idea of economic background of parents, and all that. It looks to me as though some girl in your immediate circle has gone for marrying non-brahmin and you are trying to somehow justify it and find peace of mind. Pardon me if I am wrong, sir.

I am not trying to justify for inter caste marriages or otherwise. As you say in your second para it is one of the causes.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur
 
Sri Ramakrishna Mutt is organizing classes. You can check up whether classes
are conducted in Coimbatore Branch. Sri Ramakrishna Math, Kavundampalayam,
Coimbatore 641 030. I believe it is around 19 Kms from the City. As far as
conducting the rites of Mahalayam, etc. you may be able to get the help from
Sringeri Mutt or Shankara Mutt at Coimbatore, who will be able to help you out.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

Thanks for the info, Sir; we have our family 'Vadhyar' and are doing the ceremonies; the point I wanted to stress is that the number of vaidheega brahmins is reducing nowadays.

I have enquired with the RK mutt in Kavundampalayam. General sloka classes are being conducted there on sundays. When I requested for veda classes, the Swamiji condescendingly agreed to teach; he asked me to get a group of 4 - 5 students as a group and then he can teach them; but I was unable to get interested Tambra kids and so could not proceed further.

Thanks
anamika
 
Smt. Anamika,

I do not know what you really hope to gain by sending your child for learning vedas. I don't know who gave you this idea but it will most probably make your children to start disliking vedas, mantras and the rest, as they grow up. Assuming that you find a very learned vedic scholar to teach vedas to your child, he may at best teach the loud recitation pattern (the swaras) and very little beyond that.

My suggestion is that you and your husband should lead your children by setting example. If you are yourself high-profile and westernized couple, it is futile to dream of bringing up your children the way you want. They will follow you and only you. In Malayalam we say "matthan kutthiyaal kumbaLam muLaykkumO?", meaning, if we sow the seeds of pumpkin, will you get "ash gourd" growing?

So, try learning slokas, mantras etc., yourself and recite as sincerely and beautifully as you can, during early mornings - even if you have kitchen work, etc., during that also you may recite from memory - and your children will naturally grow up liking our scriptures and will try to learn from various sources as they grow up.

Sir,

What you have written is absolutely correct. With elders in both sides of our family pious, traditional and spiritually-inclined, this was the way we taught our son slokas and so at the age of six, he learnt byheart the entire Vishnu sahasranamam. Also he learnt aditya hrudayam, hanuman saleesa and other general slokas which we know. We are not forcing things on him; we make him understand the importance and depth of our religion and culture.

His upanayanam was performed 2 yrs ago- i.e he was 7 + then; before the event, I explained to him in detail all the aspects reg. the function with the guidance of the website of KanchiPeriyava. Since then, he is doing his 'Sandhi' regularly and also did ''Samitadhanam" for almost one and a half yrs.

Personally, I believe that Vedas are our greatest tradition and have great faith in the power of the veda recitation. Learning vedas instils a sense of humility and respect for our elders and their wisdom, is my belief.

Thanks
anamika
 
Thanks for the info, Sir; we have our family 'Vadhyar' and are doing the ceremonies; the point I wanted to stress is that the number of vaidheega brahmins is reducing nowadays.

I have enquired with the RK mutt in Kavundampalayam. General sloka classes are being conducted there on sundays. When I requested for veda classes, the Swamiji condescendingly agreed to teach; he asked me to get a group of 4 - 5 students as a group and then he can teach them; but I was unable to get interested Tambra kids and so could not proceed further.

Thanks
anamika

Wish you all the best in your venture.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur
 
kalyan,

your post #29,

what is your solution? i think, we both agree, that not all is great in the kingdom of denmark.

i have consistently advocated a solution, which you can peruse through my various posts, at your leisure.

you have also branded me 'ignorant' among other things, and i respect your views, that from your pov, i do look, seem and write 'ignorant'. since this is your opinion, i will let it stand.

but you have moaned a lot, about the loss of tambram traditions. i agree with you on that.

now, what is your solution.

a solution to me, has to be winnable ie 'set itself for success'.

for example, going back to kudumi, madisar, mottai on widowhood, study of vedas and shunning secular education, is not acceptable, i think, by all of us, including yourself.

you wail over the lack of spouses for the vathayars, but would you be able to convince, your sister or daughter or girl cousin, or even any other tambram girl you know, to marrying one. if so, we can keep track, and i will bow before you, on your first success score.

it is i think, generally agreed, that a community, cannot grow, by shrinking. tambrams are shrinking, mainly because, i feel, that we do not reproduce enough to replace ourselves on this planet (2.2 children per couple?). also due to emigration (by choice 100%, as so far i am yet to meet a tambram who has been chased out by the dravidian reformation, and believe it or not, many of those folks who went out, their children are coming back to tamil nadu), ic/ir marriages - and our reluctance to accept/inculcate our traditions to the out of caste/religion spouse. what is stopping us - shame? i dont know.

so please, come up with solutions for the new generation - something that appears 'cool' enough for the teenagers to accept, embrace and be proud of. something that is simple, so that they can easily explain, and propagate the values. and above, set up an environment, where our community can grow.

what sayest thou? get your grey cells working here. thank you.

I have been moaning, yes. That is because I think there should be an acknowledgement of the problem in the first place. The biggest issue today is that there is a total lack of awareness as to what is happening around us. Only the affected parties seem to know what is going on. We cannot wait for being affected, for us to act. This is like how religious conversion was diffused to some extent a few years back by creating awareness. Now, coming to solution, I agree none of us are ready to go back to kudumi days or madisaar days are marrying with vaideekas. I think stopping children from going to school or college is not a wise solution either. I think the only solution is to make our own community kids understand what brahminism is all about and why it is important for ones growth and ones childrens holistic growth. We need to make people understand that life starts after marriage and marrying a person of like in itself is not an end of life's goal in itself. Our community has been living in the modern way without compromising on the brahminical aspects for about 5-6 decades now, it is nothing new. We just need our kids to follow what we and our parents did, thats all. The problem is, even that is not carried forward. The reason seems to be an emphasis on 'me' and 'myself' rather than 'us'. I have been insisting all through my posts that this is being 'influenced' to a large extent. Teenage emotions are being exploited either wantedly or unintentionally. Also, the solution has to evolve from the community, none of us can be prescriptive and expect everyone to follow. Also, there may not be one solution that fits all, but what is important is that we spread the awareness so that people start searching for solution to problem or in many cases ways to ensure the crisis doesnt develop in the first place. May be, people can fix alliances just after teenagers come out of college before they get to jobs, if job freedom is what creates the issue. Weddings can always be kept 2-3 years away so that people get the freedom of 2-3 years of job, which seem to be most women's like these days.
 
Ok i don't get this "girls intercaste girls intercaste marriage" moaning at all. Don't our brahmin boys marry intercaste, interreligious and interace too? I know so many tambram boys who marry non tb girls. Why go so far? In this very forum also we have people whose sons have married non tb girls. Why don't we ever pick on that. Why the double standards?

After 2 years being in this forum I have learnt the following:

It is completely alright if our boys marry non tb girls but when our girls do the same its terrible and must be stopped come hell or high water

Clearly what is good for the gander is not good for the goose.

Let us not create a 'gender' argument and kill the cause we are espousing. Both kindof ic marriages are wrong, no denial. However, today's situation seems to be that girls are marrying outside more than the other way around, going by situation on who are stranded without spouses. I dont want to get into an argument who does this more or who does it less, that is not the intention of this thread. Let us make both men and women acceptable to each other inside our community rather than raising either feministic or male chauvunistic passions. Amala & Kunjuppu - Like I have been reiterating over and over, let us look at this as 'human crisis' of certain set of people not finding spouses to start their life, rather than an ego issue. I request that we all look at the situation with 'care' and 'large heartedness'.
 
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thank you kalyan. atleast one answer. here is my take.

I have lived in Canada for 37 years.

In the initial stages, the tambram community used to criticize and ‘feel sorry’ for folks, whose kids married out of caste. Many literally ‘talked’ their children into marrying within caste in the 1980s, 90s.

Of those, there is close100% failure rate, afaik. All of those couples split up within a few years, citing incompatibility. Having the same caste, appear not enough to marry and raise a family, in Canada, anyway.

Some of the most vociferous critics, their children married whites or muslims. Overnight they changed to promoting the universality of humanity and brotherhood.

Folks like me, always kept quiet, for we do not know what our children will do. no amount of indoctrination can or will guarantee whom your child marries, if they fall in love. The more orthodox you are, the more attraction there will be for someone opposite. Atleast I feel that way.

I think, we need to give our children a strong sense of identity. An identity based on tambram practises and narrow caste oriented approach will simply not hold water these days I think, in Canada. best is to consider the best of hindu faith and give them an identity, so that no matter whom they marry, they are proud of their heritage, and will ensure some of it is passed on. Mostly ideals and values, if not rituals.

Coming to rituals, every generation of us, starting from 1900s, have watered down the practices, to our conveniences. Most of these we have found, cumbersome. How many of us combine, post death, maasikam, into one function at the end of the year while performing aabdhikam?

Personally I have gone through all the death rituals for 4 people, and finally gaya kasi. At the end of it, I found, there is so much fraud and greed involved, that I felt, will there be real benefit to the departed souls based on the shallow dishonesty prevalent here in this earth. Cannot anyone see through it? Is our God that very demanding? I do not have answers, but only doubts and questions.

The most important thing, is no matter what our children do, DO NOT ABANDON them. we brought them into this world, showered them with undemanding love. Let it continue to be undemanding
 
Hi to all friends/ Seniors in this thread,


Now that things are discussed openly here, I would like to add the following points to ponder:


1. As Biswa Sir says there are Balvihar classes run by Chinmaya trust here in India too. My son also attended one of those classes and learnt a bit of Gita. (Incidentally, he won the first prize in ita Chanting when he was around 5 yrs old.) I have seen the vacation classes in our nearby church going on with full strength and compared to those classes, the kids coming to our sloka classes are very few.


2. I also feel there is a point in saying we are now getting extinct. Nowadays, brahmin population is restricted to specific localities, say Mylapore, Triplicane and a specific few in Chennai. What about Brahmins in other cities and towns in Tamilnadu and the like who want to practice our culture? To state my personal expe, it is really difficult to find a 'Vathiyar' to perform Mahalaya srartham in Coimbatore. That too, coming for "hiranya" is ok; but if it is for lunch also, it is still more difficult. Vaidheega Brahmins are shrinking these days. More than our convenience, the availability of the Vathiyar has to be first confirmed during the 15 days of Mahalaya.


Recently I heard of a temple in Chennai, Saligramam where Mahalaya Srardham is performed in batches and a common lunch is served as 'prasad' after all the batches are over. With the rising prices, non- availability of Vathiyars, austere practices to be followed at home, more people find this easier to adopt.


3. We live in non- brahmin locality in Cbe and have been trying to put our son for a veda class for the past 1 year. Due to travelling distance, time and the like various reasons, it is not possible to attend the daily class for him. We tried to have a personal master too, but a Yoga/karate/chess and all other masters are readily available, but not a veda master. Then I realised the extent of damage happening to our society and its network. When we requested to arrange a veda class during summer vacation, the Sastry says 'who will come these days to learn vedas?' - This is the practical reality. Why not think of reviving these traditions, just like Samskrita Bharati is doing for sanskrit?


4. My sugg. is there are so many get-togethers and events always happening. And we all know for sure there is a mandap/ building for every caste in Tamilnadu where the people meet regularly and talk and do something for their society. Why this is not happening for Tambram? Are we afraid to say we are Brahmins in Tamilnadu?


5. Even among learned scholars, the disparity in financial aspect is very wide. On one side, we have highly - qualified, famous scholars who can be engaged only by hi-fi brahmins; it is a fact that to arrange a veda parayanam nowadays it costs anywhere around Rs. 5,000 - 6,000; also we have really knowledgeable resourceful persons who are not rich and famous and who are not sought after. Their knowledge of the vedas is not utilized by anyone.


I have also heard of NRI Brahmins and other rich and prosperous ready to donate to vedic trust and all and hope it is true and happening.


I have a small sugg. will it be possible to first assess how much of learned scholars ( able to impart vedic knowledge) are there nowadays and prepare a data base? Then will it possible to arrange for a veda parayana on say, first sunday of every month at a particular place, may be a common madam premises/ or temple premises? A common pool of funds/resources can be maintained and the participating vadhyars can be paid also. This arrangement can be done in and around all cities, like the one held by Vijay TV now. The advt. can be done thro various bhakti magazines which are highly popular now.


Also for the next gen, it will be highly appreciable if veda classes are held during summer vacation. The classes can start from the simple slokas and Sukhtas and can be given grades and be continued the next vacation.


I hope my dreams will become true.......


Thanks and regards
anamika

These are excellent positive suggestions. I am for it. I think what we can do even easier is to get it organized online. These days I find kids in US learn music through skype from very senior carnatic musicians. Why cant interested people organize even small groups at their homes and get to skype sessions on weekly basis for veda and sloka learning? This way, even if we find 3-4 teachers at couple of places, we can have them accessible anywhere in the world virtually. We may not find someone in cbe or trichy or chengelput, but may be in tirupathi. We just need to enable them to access internet and skype, may be a one time finding effort and a 40-50K spend one time, and regular monthly dakshina. I myself learnt sanskrit and vedanta from an institution few years back, by taking a break from job for 2 years. If we have the will, we can achieve things very easily these days, given the kind of networking internet has enabled. People from chinmaya mission or srisri mission or some rishikesh gurukulam always willing to teach. Our country is still live with good people who want to spread sacred texts of the rishis to next generations. I have seen so may good meaning people across the country who have sacrificed all their wealth and pleasures to seek the divine. We just need to tap them. World has shrunk!
 
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anamika,

i would go on with kalyan's suggestion. we may not be able to meet in person, or get a skinandbones vathiar or teacher. but the internet is a feasible option.

it can be workable.
 
thank you kalyan. atleast one answer. here is my take.

I have lived in Canada for 37 years.

In the initial stages, the tambram community used to criticize and ‘feel sorry’ for folks, whose kids married out of caste. Many literally ‘talked’ their children into marrying within caste in the 1980s, 90s.

Of those, there is close100% failure rate, afaik. All of those couples split up within a few years, citing incompatibility. Having the same caste, appear not enough to marry and raise a family, in Canada, anyway.

Some of the most vociferous critics, their children married whites or muslims. Overnight they changed to promoting the universality of humanity and brotherhood.

Folks like me, always kept quiet, for we do not know what our children will do. no amount of indoctrination can or will guarantee whom your child marries, if they fall in love. The more orthodox you are, the more attraction there will be for someone opposite. Atleast I feel that way.

I think, we need to give our children a strong sense of identity. An identity based on tambram practises and narrow caste oriented approach will simply not hold water these days I think, in Canada. best is to consider the best of hindu faith and give them an identity, so that no matter whom they marry, they are proud of their heritage, and will ensure some of it is passed on. Mostly ideals and values, if not rituals.

Coming to rituals, every generation of us, starting from 1900s, have watered down the practices, to our conveniences. Most of these we have found, cumbersome. How many of us combine, post death, maasikam, into one function at the end of the year while performing aabdhikam?

Personally I have gone through all the death rituals for 4 people, and finally gaya kasi. At the end of it, I found, there is so much fraud and greed involved, that I felt, will there be real benefit to the departed souls based on the shallow dishonesty prevalent here in this earth. Cannot anyone see through it? Is our God that very demanding? I do not have answers, but only doubts and questions.

The most important thing, is no matter what our children do, DO NOT ABANDON them. we brought them into this world, showered them with undemanding love. Let it continue to be undemanding

I am not that very shocked to note people brought up overseas find it difficult to find reason to stick to brahminism, because their environment is totally at variance. What is a shocker is why it is happening in india, that too with people from other castes who are more ritualistic and dogmatic. I think NBs today are more ritualistic than tambrams. Not sure how many in this forum have been to ceremonies in other communities for girls attaining puberty, weddings, deaths etc They are extremely ritualistic, most of which are not even vedic. Some are very annoying even for their own community girls like the example of puberty celebrations. So, I am not very sure it is the ritualistic customs that drive kids to marry outside. In fact, may tambram girls married to NBs these days are trying to bring their children up more brahminical and ritualistic. Almost all of them try to teach carnatic music to their children. Most of them name their children brahminically. The iyengar friend I refered to in another post, got an alliance proposal from 'brahmin mother' married to a muslim saying she has brought her daughter up 'as a brahmin with knowledge of madi paththu etc and as a vegetarian'. Now, this clearly shows it is not necessarily the ritual aspect that is driving women away. I am convinced that it is the age and attraction at the time of decision that is creating the situation. One may ask, arent brahmin boys attractive. But, the issue is, brahmin boys after 2 years of job are moving overseas or far off cities. So, teen age girls are these days surrounded by mostly NB boys, movie heroes are agmark NB characters who become their dream personalities, depiction of brahmin boys in movies and tv serials are as though they are impotent and incompetent is influencing their view, also due to reservations etc we find brahmin boys extremely career centric which makes them appear uninteresting. All these combined together, are driving girls to love NBs. I am just a few years elder to marriage age and I see this crystal clear in my work environment and we just need to recognize this reason and address it.
 
Sarma-61

If you notice our community girls, they do very well in their studies and
they also easily get jobs nowadays without any problem in IT Sector,
particularly through Campus Recruitments. Further the present day Girls,
because of their exposure to the educational world and having a fair
idea on the economical background of their family background, have a very
clear idea and thinking power and above all have a fair knowledge to
appraise their parents about their choice and impress upon them in
a convincing manner. In some cases, parents also delay the marriages,
either owing to non-availability of boys of equal status to their girls and
sometimes proper match horoscopes are not available. All this process
paves the way, at odd cases, girls slip out of their hands leading to
selecting their life companion in the office where they are employed.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

Yes. One crucial point we need to discuss is what do we do when girls or even boys propose to marry intercaste and we are unable to convince them to not do that. Should we abandon them or marry them off along their wishes or let them marry without our consent and later on accomodate them? Even though as not a 'punishment', but as a general welfare of our community should we keep them away from mingling? Worry is, when we start to mingle within different castes as families we are causing a huge risk to the larger extended families. If cousins, distant brothers/sisters, uncles etc are from other castes, think how the next generation kids will view the caste position and how much they can be inflenced to further fall in relationships with other castes. Even people who want to carefully bring up their children in brahminical way of life will be disturbed and even destroyed in the process. I am unable to decide one way or the other though.....
 
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bala, your post #49, kalyan your post #66

If I read the content and mood correctly, I think you are considering our tambram girls as some commodity, which can be swayed to your whims and fancies, someone who is woolly headed to be swung around by the fancy jingling of coins or scented powder.

Let me ask one thing? How many boys or their parents are willing even to foot 50/50 the wedding expenses? How many boys’ parents immediately grab the salary of the new dils? And how many sons meekly go along with their mothers, and make the life of the new wife subservient to the mother?

Bala, kalyan, did you guys offer to foot part of the expenses of your own marriages?

All I am saying, is the tambram mentality, is a dichotomy. On one hand, we wail that our girl are going ‘wayward’, but do nothing to atleast correct some of the structural wrongs and biases in our community against our girls. should we not change our attitudes?

Today’s girls, many of them are girls only families. How many boys, will be willing to agree, that the girls have an equal feeling to take care of their parents? Help them out financially? Don’t most of them expect a housekeeper/nurse for his parents/wage earner/mother/sex provider/cook/ all rolled together from their wives?

When the girl finds a man, who is not going to break the bank with wedding expense, who atleast they believe will be more gentle and less demanding, and they fall in love, it is, I think, not a one minute decision. Probably causes a lot of angst with her parents too. but in the ultimate most love marriage succeed. Atleast the rate of failure is no less or more, I think, than jadhagam poruthal tambram marriages.

I think we men, cannot think anymore of girls like commodities. Let us treat them same as boys, as our equals, and address the issues. Trying to stop and think of preventive modes, are signs of desperation, and will not work. Anyway that is what I think.
 
I am not that very shocked to note people brought up overseas find it difficult to find reason to stick to brahminism, because their environment is totally at variance. What is a shocker is why it is happening in india, that too with people from other castes who are more ritualistic and dogmatic. I think NBs today are more ritualistic than tambrams. Not sure how many in this forum have been to ceremonies in other communities for girls attaining puberty, weddings, deaths etc They are extremely ritualistic, most of which are not even vedic. Some are very annoying even for their own community girls like the example of puberty celebrations. So, I am not very sure it is the ritualistic customs that drive kids to marry outside. In fact, may tambram girls married to NBs these days are trying to bring their children up more brahminical and ritualistic. Almost all of them try to teach carnatic music to their children. Most of them name their children brahminically. The iyengar friend I refered to in another post, got an alliance proposal from 'brahmin mother' married to a muslim saying she has brought her daughter up 'as a brahmin with knowledge of madi paththu etc and as a vegetarian'. Now, this clearly shows it is not necessarily the ritual aspect that is driving women away. I am convinced that it is the age and attraction at the time of decision that is creating the situation. One may ask, arent brahmin boys attractive. But, the issue is, brahmin boys after 2 years of job are moving overseas or far off cities. So, teen age girls are these days surrounded by mostly NB boys, movie heroes are agmark NB characters who become their dream personalities, depiction of brahmin boys in movies and tv serials are as though they are impotent and incompetent is influencing their view, also due to reservations etc we find brahmin boys extremely career centric which makes them appear uninteresting. All these combined together, are driving girls to love NBs. I am just a few years elder to marriage age and I see this crystal clear in my work environment and we just need to recognize this reason and address it.

Dear kalyan,

Good analysis. Thank you for the same.

A while back, I used the term, ‘choplangis’ re tambram boys, and got a lot of flak for it. You have put it more sophisticatedly, and I complement you for it.

Believe it or not, one of my friends here, in his late 50s, one day opened up, and told me his love story. Apparently his now wife, when he met her first, was going out with someone from another religion. He too fell in love with this girl, and he won over, through panache and style. Now 35 years later, when I look at the wife, I have to stretch my imagination really hard re this rather plumpy middle aged woman, happily married with two daughters, as a wild siren, fought over by two youths.

Why, our own moderator KRS has stated here, re his first love and wife, a jewish lady. I am not sure how much their children have imbibed the tambram rituals, or familiarity with the scriptures. The Judaic religion, like ours, is intent on rituals, and there, it is the woman who is considered the guardian of the faith. Afaik, to the jews, a girl marrying outside of faith, is more a disaster than a guy. I may be wrong here.

no matter whom they marry, at the end of the day, the sun does set, and the moon still rises. life goes on, with similarly simple routine and many of our fears are just that. fears.

May I please ask you, what is your specific concern? Is it the celebration of festivals – navarathri, Krishna jayanthi, rama navami or thiruvadharai? Those are common to both B and NBs. Is it purity of blood. If so we need not worry – inspite of supposed lineage of gothras, beyond a few generations, we don’t how much intermingling there was, and the fact that all our DNAs are alike, should give us some comfort that south Indians have a lot of common blood line.

Re rituals: we tambrams have been watering down our stuff past century. What drives us now, I call, the 3 Cs – cash, convenience, comfort. that is not fiction but reality. I think many of us find them irrelevant, cumbersome or simply a chore – and hence walking away from performing many such, or shortcutting them. if this is a trend, no amount of gospelling from others is going to change it.

Personally, I would like our faith to reinvent itself in tune with the current values - do away with caste at the structural level, professionalizing of priesthood ie same as jews, islam or xtianity – ie go to vedic schools get familiar and treat this as a profession, rather than current ‘hand me down rules’ within families.

No matter what, thanks to migration, far and beyond india, the old close network and proximity of living and sharing the same values, is and cannot be there in the future. This change appears to be permanent, and how we handle it would be something that I am unable even to predict now. Maybe it may not be a bad thing after all, for we could inculcate our best, when mixing with other groups, at the same time discarding the worst of our prejudices. Who knows?
 
I think there is problem of practicality. I want to bring up the case of a very prominent individual: actress Vidya Balan. Though born and brought up in Mumbai, she has publicly proclaimed that she is a Tamil/Palakkad Iyer.

At this point in time, the very successful Ms. Balan is in a relationship with Mr. Siddharth Ray Kapur the CEO of UTV. They have taken several weeklong vacations together (followed by papparazzi of course). I do not know the exact antecendents of Mr. Kapur, but suffice it to say that he is not a Tamil Brahmin or Palakkad Iyer. Let us suppose he is Punjabi.

So what do the forum members here propose to do? One option is to picket outside Ms. Balan's house (newly gifted by Mr. Kapur) and raise slogans saying: Vidya Balan! You can't do this! You are one of our clan! You cant be dating a Punjabi! We demand that you marry a TB! You are educated, pretty, intelligent and rich. You need to be a role model for our daughters!

I can only imagine what Ms Balans's reaction will be. Will she be sympathetic? Or she will she call her security guards?

I think it is too late to do this social engineering, that train has already left the station.
 
mr kapur is also divorced, with two kids. :)

vidya is my favourite actor; she is awesome in all the movies she participates. i hope she wins a few awards for her portrayal of silk smitha in the dirty picture.

though she was tops in parineeta, i liked her best in ishqiya.

btw she is also a spokesperson for vegetarian org PETA - and perfect example that veggies can look tops :)

vidya is also a liberated woman, who has said that career comes first, before any man; no mention of children either.

too bad, with such talent, she got recognition late in her shelf life; being a woman, the shelf life is very short. salman or rajini can act with the heroine, her daughter and maybe even the grand daughter. women actors dont get such breaks.
 
Dear Kunjs,

You wrote :
vidya is also a liberated woman, who has said that career comes first, before any man; no mention of children either.

Do you think that a liberated woman is one who puts herself 1st before anyone?
I beg to differ..I feel a liberated woman is someone who knows that each one in life has a role to play including herself and priority depends on the situation.

I guess when Vidya said that she was still not in love yet..when we love someone they become our combined priority.

Vidya knows that a woman in the Indian film industry has very short shelf life thats why she is trying her best to make the best of the situation cos once she hits a certain age and weight she will knows its either TV serial or Ma ,Behen roles.
 
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Omg i had no idea Sidharth Kapur was divorced with kids. Ok i don't get why tambram or SI actresses who are in Bollywood always end up with Punjabis and never Gujjus or Bongs or Sindhis etc. And why are these Punjabi partners always divorced/married with kids first? This is getting weirdly predictable or is it predictably weird :)
 
Omg i had no idea Sidharth Kapur was divorced with kids. Ok i don't get why tambram or SI actresses who are in Bollywood always end up with Punjabis and never Gujjus or Bongs or Sindhis etc. And why are these Punjabi partners always divorced/married with kids first? This is getting weirdly predictable or is it predictably weird :)

No Amala, Aishwarya Rai did not marry a Punjabi/married/divorcee.

BTW to all South Indian girls out there Main Yahan Hoon Yahan.
 
No Amala, Aishwarya Rai did not marry a Punjabi/married/divorcee.

BTW to all South Indian girls out there Main Yahan Hoon Yahan.

Brahin, I need to make sure that you really qualify. Are you Punjabi/married/divorcee, and most importantly a movie producer with bags of money? :)
 
mr kapur is also divorced, with two kids. :)

Oh man, is that really true? I feel sad, though I don't know whether for myself or for Vidya Balan. ;)

But maybe Vidya will make a great step-mom, being vegetarian and all. Of course vegetarians have always looked good. Just look at Pamela Anderson!
 
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