A Tamil Brahmin Dilemma

[krish44]

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Why do you think I should be hysterical....I base my decisions only based on actual data (not anyone's figment of imagination)

Reality will strike when our tribe gets lost & in any case you & I are not going to see that! May be our dead souls can mourn or relish(as many of us do in this forum)!

What is your sample size?

How have you picked up cases.?

If you look for evil you will find it everywhere including brahmin community.

Our brahmin class survived all onslaughts.

I have no doubts on our capacity to do well.

W will absorb people of other persuasions in our community and make them accept if not follow our life style.

Hindu religion has not been destroyed nor will brahmins vanish.

Only brahmins will also be exposed to ways of other communities and will learn to coopt them with minor changes in our lifestyle.

 

[Raji Ram]

... I was missing your wise cracks.

Keep it up.

It will pour cold water on hot emotions

OMG! Cold water over hot stuff will create lot of smoke!!

 

[Raji Ram]

..... mostly TB boys/gals prefer hindi than tamil in north india.....i know in my circle in delhi....even they like to talk hindi at home...

And I get mad at the oft used word 'matlab'!! :crazy:

 

[Raji Ram]

Stupid father stupid children.

Stupid parents beget stupid children.

The children of extremely orthodox parents start to hate being orthodox and wish to be away from them.

I have seen many youngsters like this! Sadly, it is true.

 

[Raji Ram]

They can offer their daughters to delhi tamil brahmin boys. ...

Oh, Yeah! Some marriages are made in heaven and suffered on earth! :ballchain:

 

[vgane]

What is your sample size?

How have you picked up cases.?

If you look for evil you will find it everywhere including brahmin community.

Our brahmin class survived all onslaughts.

I have no doubts on our capacity to do well.

W will absorb people of other persuasions in our community and make them accept if not follow our life style.

Hindu religion has not been destroyed nor will brahmins vanish.

Only brahmins will also be exposed to ways of other communities and will learn to coopt them with minor changes in our lifestyle.

Can each of us share how many TB boys & girls marriages that they know have happened in last 10 years & how many are IC & IR. Then we can collate the information..For calculation, a Brahmin marrying another Brahmin (even with different sub caste or Sub sect like Iyer/Iyengar/Madhwa/Namboodiri to be considered as Brahmin)...I need as many of you to share your data so that we can summarize and collectively see for ourselves..

S.No	Member	Total No of marriages (Jan 2006-Dec 2015)	No of IC marriages	No of IR marriages	Total IC+IR
1​	vgane	27​	10​	3​	13​

 

[prasad1]

What is Culture:
Expressions include activities such as singing, dancing, dressing, and artistry—the usual media representations of Indians. The foundations include marrying, child-rearing, socializing, worshipping, governing, and working.
In Indian communities, culture often distinguishes insiders from outsiders. People vigorously debate what is really “Tamil” or what is “Brahmin” and what is “outsider.” Besides affecting pride and human relationships, nothing more.
Culture is an indispensable concept like “society,” but it is also vague and contested. Loose criteria control the word in speech and the concept in thought. Any scholarly attempt to find culture’s “essence” or “true meaning” is inevitably too narrow.

We all follow "family tradition" or more accurately "individual Tradition". Then trying to find people suitable to "our Tradition" is herculean task. Show me a universal "brahmin tradition", there is none. Similarly describe a "universal Tamil tradition" it is non-existent.

It is a futile argument.
Societies change, cultures change.
The people who are not able to accept the changes and compromise and adapt will perish.

According to wiki:

Tamils have strong attachment to the Tamil language, which is often venerated in literature as "Tamil̲an̲n̲ai", "the Tamil mother". It has historically been, and to large extent still is, central to the Tamil identity.

Is that all we have?

Similarly wiki states:

Brahmins traditionally were responsible for religious rituals in temples, as intermediaries between temple deities and devotees, as well as rite of passage rituals such as solemnising a wedding with hymns and prayers.

We are not that.

What are we fighting for in this thread?

How can you find something that you never had?

 

[sangom]

Sangomji . All your points are very valid to a large extent

North indian brahmins will not touch south brahmins. One north indian brahmin class mate of mine got disowned when he married a konkan brahmin.His father

dismissed all south of india as rakshasas.lol

Kayasths are nor brahmins but forward caste. They are not bc or OBC. They do not enjoy reservations. In social scale they are next to brahmins and are mostly

salaried class in metros.

You are not right in believing that children of such alliances marry northerners.

If the mother is tamil brahmin, she would still push hr son/daughter towards south brahmins.

If father is Tamil brahmin, then there is a possibility that he will go out of south indian fold.

Every where women rule.

One should not fear losses. It depends on who makes the deal and who is the ultimate winner

You are quite right, krishji. Women rule ultimately and so, it should not be a hindrance to north-south marriages. Even so, a TB girl married to a north Indian boy is generally not as much dominant as the vice versa instance, and, in both types of marriages it is the TB customs and ways of living which get curbed and overtaken by the north Indian equivalents, I feel.

 

[vgane]

Can each of us share how many TB boys & girls marriages that they know have happened in last 10 years & how many are IC & IR. Then we can collate the information..For calculation, a Brahmin marrying another Brahmin (even with different sub caste or Sub sect like Iyer/Iyengar/Madhwa/Namboodiri to be considered as Brahmin)...I need as many of you to share your data so that we can summarize and collectively see for ourselves.]

Members, Pl fill up the table so that we have an idea about the extent of problem

 

[kunjuppu]

And I get mad at the oft used word 'matlab'!! :crazy:

yes. my brother in law, brought up in the north, always says mathlab. at first i thought it was mathalam, and had to ask my sis, why he keeps on hitting the mathalam

 

[Vaagmi]

The children of extremely orthodox parents start to hate being orthodox and wish to be away from them.

I have seen many youngsters like this! Sadly, it is true.

You will have to define orthodoxy here. Otherwise the argument will be in circles and will reach no where.

Please define orthodoxy first. Then we can find out what is the extreme category in it. Only then we can understand what is it that drives children away from it.

 

[prasad1]

Why do we think our way is superior to others? Where does this arrogance comes from? If our way is superior then others will adopt it, if our way is not encouraging our growth, even we will leave it.

If you set yourself on a pedestal then some body else will kick it. If we are grounded then we have no fear of falling.

This thread is so incorrect. This is an open site. We have members who are not brahmins, some are not Tamils, and others have Inter case or Inter state marriages.
Are you aware that it is highly insulting to others.
How insensitive?

 

[Vaagmi]

Why do we think our way is superior to others? Where does this arrogance comes from? If our way is superior then others will adopt it, if our way is not encouraging our growth, even we will leave it.

If you set yourself on a pedestal then some body else will kick it. If we are grounded then we have no fear of falling.

This thread is so incorrect. This is an open site. We have members who are not brahmins, some are not Tamils, and others have Inter case or Inter state marriages.
Are you aware that it is highly insulting to others.
How insensitive?

No one is setting himself up in a pedastal here to be kicked by some one else.

The writer of this post quoted is wrong in his basic understanding of the posts here and the reason why people post it.

To make matters clear let me repeat (though I have said this a hundred times here earlier) there is no superiority inferiority chest beating here. There is no support for discriminating here. There is no claim to birth based superiority.

Brahmins are a gene bank built over centuries and society has been benefitting from this gene bank all along. So it is in the interest of every one to keep it nurtured. There are other gene banks and they also need to be kept that way. all gene banks are important for the society. So there is nothing superior or inferior about a gene bank. Period.

Those who are enthusiastic about homogenising and dispensing with these gene banks are doing a disservice to the humanity. They may do what they want but at least they can stop coming here telling that homogenisation is the need of the time and that it should be don e posthaste. That prescription from the arm-chair revollutioneries is what I call stupidity.

If any one has an advantage it is natural for him to preserve it. Those brahmins who think they have an advantage in being born from that poarticular gene bank have a right to preserve that gene bank and others can not find fault with it as long as they do not rub it on others. Period.

This forum has become a forum of PIOs living abroad. They invariably do not have the sense to take ideas as ideas and argue. They take things to a personal level every time they find themselves in a corner.So this forum is not the place to discuss in detail the gene bank principle or any thing scientific and hence I have revised my post.

 

[mkrishna100]

So what was a practical truth based on observations became a scientific truth. I have mentioned here earlier about the research work done by a UCLA Anthropologist and his team.

Is it about the Brahmin Gotra System ?

 

[asadu]

A Brahmin is not a brahmin by birth alone. He/she has to nurture the rules,regulations, customs, traditions, foundations, fundamentals and social, legal obligations. In a nutshell what these rules say ? ahimsa, satya, truth and service to mankind in all possible ways and means at any cost. The have to learn a lot and preach to others to behave. Guide the society to good life and help them attain their just goals. So, anybody can become a brahmin if he/she practices these qualities like the King Vishwamithra becoming Brahmarishi Vishwamithra. People including brahmin community started deterioting towards greed and money with conforts. Now those other than brahmins have started to realise that the principles brahmins followed and the way they lived is correct and they started to follow the brahminical way of living. similarly, brahmins who hailed from birth as brahmins started slipping from their genetic hold and crossed platforms for greed. Most of the brahmins today are not at all brahmins as they never practice anything that a brahmin is supposed to do. Some qualities of brahmins which are left out with the born brahmins are, 1. they can never fight back physically 2. very hard for them to tell a lie 3. god fearing 4. accept mistakes and truths when confronted with 5. will be happy with what they have and such things.

Anybody who wants to become a brahmin should learn the vedas and preach the society about good things, truth, tendency to always help others, do not earn money in unnatural ways and means, law abiding, etc etc. I am not a writer that i can put things in a beautiful perspective. Many rishis have converted people who were not brahmins into brahmins and they are guided to live the way brahmins lived. Brahmins who still follow the rules and customs are finding it difficult to sustain way forward similar to the plight of parsis in our country.
If the brahims thus left out try to consolidate their strength and fight then they stand a chance to survive. Those went out of the fold can never come back into the fold as they no longer fit into rules. Those coming in should always stick with the fundamental rules and can never think of going back.

 

[auh]

Yes very true. Example post #39. LOL.

I wish you would care to understand what you write...

 

[auh]

A Brahmin is not a brahmin by birth alone. He/she has to nurture the rules,regulations, customs, traditions, foundations, fundamentals and social, legal obligations. In a nutshell what these rules say ? ahimsa, satya, truth and service to mankind in all possible ways and means at any cost. The have to learn a lot and preach to others to behave. Guide the society to good life and help them attain their just goals. So, anybody can become a brahmin if he/she practices these qualities like the King Vishwamithra becoming Brahmarishi Vishwamithra. People including brahmin community started deterioting towards greed and money with conforts. Now those other than brahmins have started to realise that the principles brahmins followed and the way they lived is correct and they started to follow the brahminical way of living. similarly, brahmins who hailed from birth as brahmins started slipping from their genetic hold and crossed platforms for greed. Most of the brahmins today are not at all brahmins as they never practice anything that a brahmin is supposed to do. Some qualities of brahmins which are left out with the born brahmins are, 1. they can never fight back physically 2. very hard for them to tell a lie 3. god fearing 4. accept mistakes and truths when confronted with 5. will be happy with what they have and such things.

Anybody who wants to become a brahmin should learn the vedas and preach the society about good things, truth, tendency to always help others, do not earn money in unnatural ways and means, law abiding, etc etc. I am not a writer that i can put things in a beautiful perspective. Many rishis have converted people who were not brahmins into brahmins and they are guided to live the way brahmins lived. Brahmins who still follow the rules and customs are finding it difficult to sustain way forward similar to the plight of parsis in our country.
If the brahims thus left out try to consolidate their strength and fight then they stand a chance to survive. Those went out of the fold can never come back into the fold as they no longer fit into rules. Those coming in should always stick with the fundamental rules and can never think of going back.

Sir, are you striving to those ideals of a Brahmin, which you have so illustrated?

 

[krish44]

yes. my brother in law, brought up in the north, always says mathlab. at first i thought it was mathalam, and had to ask my sis, why he keeps on hitting the mathalam

lol

 

[vgane]

Started receiving data on marraiges...You can pm the data in case you do not want me divulge the source

 

[vgane]

S.No	Member	No of marriages (Jan 2006-Dec 2015)	No of B-B marriages*	No of IC marriages	No of IR marriages	Total IC+IR
1​	mem1	27​	14​	10​	3​	13​
2​	mem2	11​	9​	1​	1​	2​

B-B*…Means Brahmin to Brahmin marriage. Inter sect (Iyer/Iyengar/Telugu Brahmin/Madhwa/Namboodiri) considered as Brahmin

 

[Vaagmi]

I wish you would care to understand what you write...

I wish you do the same before making your highly judgmental posts. Try to meet ideas posted with ideas or a counter point and do not turn judgmental about the person who made the post. That will do a lot of good to you and the members here. If you have a counter point say it with all the force you command otherwise just keep quiet and follow the eschanges as many others do with many of the posts here. Dont ever think that you are the only one who post after a lot of thought.

 

[krish44]

Vaagmiji

Brahmin genes are definitely headed for dilution with IC/IR marriages assuming your theory is valid.

But there is nothing you can do about it.

It is economics and geography which decide the future of brahmins but not lamentations and rantings sitting in agraham like settings in deep south.

Indian constitution strives to give a level playing field to other communities . To enable catcjhing up, they have reservations in place. These will make a dent but may

be slowly.

Slow inter mixing of brahmin castes with others is bound to happen when inter mediate castes become affluent and confront the brahmin caste with better marriage

offers in their community offering a better life to our brahmin girls. Our girls in order to escape the conservative rigid patriarchal order would find it worthwhile to

make an informed choice from another close caste in social scale. OK you may call it ill advised but you may not be able to do anything about.

Unless brahmins set their own house in order and liberalise giving up their rigid views on customs and beliefs , work for gender quality and justice, shift in preferance

of girl to boys of other castes cannot be reduced.It is a doomsday scenario for brahmins.

 

[vgane]

Please PM me the data...I have data for 3 persons

S.No	Member	No of marriages (Jan 2006-Dec 2015)	No of B-B marriages*	No of IC marriages	No of IR marriages	Total IC+IR
1​	mem1​	27​	14​	10​	3​	13​
2​	mem2​	11​	9​	1​	1​	2​
3​	mem3​	11​	10​	1​	0​	1​

 

[krish44]

Please PM me the data...I have data for 3 persons

S.No	Member	No of marriages (Jan 2006-Dec 2015)	No of B-B marriages*	No of IC marriages	No of IR marriages	Total IC+IR
1​	mem1​	27​	14​	10​	3​	13​
2​	mem2​	11​	9​	1​	1​	2​
3​	mem3​	11​	10​	1​	0​	1​

we will celebrate if you cross 10 members.

that would be a show of unity and strength

 

[auh]

I wish you do the same before making your highly judgmental posts. Try to meet ideas posted with ideas or a counter point and do not turn judgmental about the person who made the post. That will do a lot of good to you and the members here. If you have a counter point say it with all the force you command otherwise just keep quiet and follow the eschanges as many others do with many of the posts here. Dont ever think that you are the only one who post after a lot of thought.

You have made several sweeping generalizations in this thread based on your (and one) point of view. And you have the temerity to call my post as judgmental...what an empty-headed statement !

Despite your education and world experience, you seem to exhibit a lack of empathy. And with a swagger of tempestuous thoughts, you rush headlong into any discussion.

So be it.