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A new view on reason for #corruption in india

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Vritra

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Generally, briberyconstitutes acts of offering, receiving, giving or soliciting something to getwork done favourably. It is definedthat both giving as well acceptance are offences.
But it is people who committhe offence of giving bribe even to get small things happen to their advantage,lament about corruption all the time.
When are they going to stopoffering bribery…..?
Instead of talking aboutothers accepting bribery and corruption, will the members come forward to takea resolution that not to offer bribery to get works done out of the way…?
 
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prasad1

prasad1

Active member
Prasadji

One can feel only bad and sad for the poor and not so well off who have to resort to petty corruption to fulfill their basic needs of food , clothes and house.

Should not one feel outraged that such disparities exist in incomes of the poor and the rich?

When the existing order has no answers to correct the disparities and the life of the poor is getting progressively worse in comparison with others, we should be thankful

that they are still law abiding and observe some rules and regulations.

We can at least feel for them and turn a blind eye to their small corruption if any and act a little more generous.



We will agree to disagree on that.

If the corruption at the upper and middle level is wiped out, petty corruption will not be allowed. So corruption because of poverty is a myth.

If Government officers and police officers become honest they will make sure others are honest. Sadly that is not happening.
 

tbs

0
We will agree to disagree on that.

If the corruption at the upper and middle level is wiped out, petty corruption will not be allowed. So corruption because of poverty is a myth.

If Government officers and police officers become honest they will make sure others are honest. Sadly that is not happening.
hi

i agreed....both are accountable for corruption.....common man is suffering bezoz of these group of people...
 

Raji Ram

Active member
Corruption happens because the well off people WANT to get things done by hook or crook! No one can be honest. :sad:

But there seems to be no solution because corruption is deep rooted now! I shall give an example.

Our metro water pipe line was given about 15 years back. Most of our colony people gave a bribe to the official (Rs. 10,000) to

get 3/4 inches pipe nipple instead of the allowed 1/2 inch. Ram refused and wanted to abide by rule. So, our pipe line was given

at an upper level than others, with 1/2 inch pipe nipple. Incoming water was scanty and after an year or so, stopped! When

reported, the corporation guys wanted us to give an application to 'rectify' this problem, with a payment of about Rs. 6,000.

When the work started, right from the guy came to dig the road kept on pestering for money; they won't commence the work
before getting it. So, about ten guys came for different work to give the line, and we ended up shelling out 30 K extra!! :faint:

This is an example of corporation corruption!
 
V

Vritra

Guest
hi

i agreed....both are accountable for corruption.....common man is suffering bezoz of these group of people...


There are also common men who sell their votes for a pocket of biryani and a cutting of IMFL and elect a politican and what can be expected from such politician......??

And no one talks about such common men.
 
V

Vritra

Guest
Corruption happens because the well off people WANT to get things done by hook or crook! No one can be honest. :sad:

But there seems to be no solution because corruption is deep rooted now! I shall give an example.

Our metro water pipe line was given about 15 years back. Most of our colony people gave a bribe to the official (Rs. 10,000) to

get 3/4 inches pipe nipple instead of the allowed 1/2 inch. Ram refused and wanted to abide by rule. So, our pipe line was given

at an upper level than others, with 1/2 inch pipe nipple. Incoming water was scanty and after an year or so, stopped! When

reported, the corporation guys wanted us to give an application to 'rectify' this problem, with a payment of about Rs. 6,000.

When the work started, right from the guy came to dig the road kept on pestering for money; they won't commence the work
before getting it. So, about ten guys came for different work to give the line, and we ended up shelling out 30 K extra!! :faint:

This is an example of corporation corruption!


I think legally offering bribe to get something done out of the way is also amounting to corruption. And it is the people who offer bribe talk more about corruption.

The proverb is charity beings at home. Such people who talk more about corruption HERE (more particularly in this Forum) should resolve first not to bribe anyone to get things done out of the way. Will they....?
 
V

Vritra

Guest
We will agree to disagree on that.

If the corruption at the upper and middle level is wiped out, petty corruption will not be allowed. So corruption because of poverty is a myth.

If Government officers and police officers become honest they will make sure others are honest. Sadly that is not happening.


I think by oversight you seems to have missed out a section of common men who sell his votes during election. And later pay penalty for their misdeeds.. LOL
 
Facing a similar issue of an underground cable becoming defective, I saw to it that demands for installing new cables were not conceded. The temporary cable over ground

were left unattended for over a month.I forced the local supplier to bury them instead of new cables.So a temporary jugaad. I refuse to bribe anyone just like that.When

municipal elections come a solution will be found without paying bribes.
 
OP
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prasad1

prasad1

Active member
hi


i agreed....both are accountable for corruption.....common man is suffering bezoz of these group of people...



The Western world has not found these methods. WHY?
The methods called JUGGUD by krishji seems unique to India, China, and underprivileged countries.
 

Brahmanyan

Active member
As per my understanding corruption flourishes because of delay in action and lack of understanding legal procedure. To swim against corruption we have to develop a lot of patience and perseverance. When my son purchased a car of PY registration from his uncle he told that he may have to pay Rs.2000/- to a tout in RTO office to get the change of registration and address.
I told him that if he permits I will try to do the job without any additional payment. Then I approached the concerned ARTO with prior appointment and explained my requirement and requested him to give the list of things to be done on my part to get the transfer done legally. The ARTO asked me to note down all the requirements and approach him once finished.

Well it took a lot of time to get cumbersome items from a NOC from Puducherry to other paper work from the original owner onwards. In the mean while due to frequent visits to ARTO, I created a rapport with him. He told me to get the address changed first paying required fees and get other documents in due course within six months.

Ultimately it took three months for me to get the new Bangalore registration number without paying a single pie extra to any one.

This experience is an eye opener for me to proceed legally for getting the work done in Government offices.

I admit my age may be a reason for this. Here in Karnataka still the people respect elderly and help.

Brahmanyan
Bangalore.
 
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Raji Ram

Active member
......When my son purchased a car of PY registration from his uncle he told that he may have to pay Rs.2000/- to a tout in RTO office to get the change of registration and address.
I told him that if he permits I will try to do the job without any additional payment. Then I approached the concerned ARTO with prior appointment and explained my requirement and requested him to give the list of things to be done on my part to get the transfer done legally. The ARTO asked me to note down all the requirements and approach him once finished.

Well it took a lot of time to get cumbersome items from a NOC from Puducherry to other paper work from the original owner onwards. In the mean while due to frequent visits to ARTO, I created a rapport with him. He told me to get the address changed first paying required fees and get other documents in due course within six months..........
Dear Sir,

You would have spent money to take NOC from Puducherry, and visit the owner to get the paper work done.
You would have had tense moments, till the job was done. To 'save' these, people opt to pay money and get the job done. :couch2:

So, it is the lazy people, who encourage corruption.

But, in the episode I wrote about fixing new inlet of metro water for our house, it was NOT at all possible for us to go by rules!

The corporation guys WONT work, unless we pay them what they demand! :sad:
 
"There seems to be no solution because corruption is deep rooted now!" "MONEY AND INSIDER REQUIRED ANY GOVT WORK IN INDIA..." "arasan evvazhi, makkal avvazhi."

"somebody said in a joke...govt pays salary for the employee to visit the office.....we have to PAY money for work in office..."

Lamentation, wringing hands, and self-pity seem to be the strong points of Indians who are at the "receiving end" of corruption. Or, rather at the "paying end".

Some time ago, responding to Sri Prasad1's posts, I had suggested that we follow modern China's example of arresting, publicly humiliating, torturing, extracting confessions, trying in kangaroo courts and condemning to death, and finally publicly executing those guilty of corruption. The Chinese people under President Xi will thereby know the fatal consequences of corruption.

Alternatively, I had suggested current Philippine President Duterte's example in effectively and swiftly dealing with the ever-expanding national threat of drug smugglers and traffickers: Flush out the gangsters and their accomplices from their hideouts with machinegun-wielding troops, police, and vigilantes, and finish them off with machetes. And publicise the campaigns.

Neither alternative apparently appealed to discerning Sri Prasd1. He seemed to prefer Singapore's examples of prohibiting importation of cigarettes, hanging drug traffickers, their handlers and their runners, extensive network of anti-corruption officers, swift detection, trial and punishment of those guilty of corruption including aides, bribe-givers and corporations.

So I produce (or, rather, revive) a third alternative -- North Korea under President Kim Jong Un's "execution by dogs" --
"quan jue":

The method is simple, and straightforward. All it requires is grit and determination. And supreme self-control.

THE execution of Jang Song Thaek, the No. 2 man in North Korea, and uncle of President Kim, on Dec 12, 2013. The Press report said to originate from a Hongkong newspaper sympathetic to China, and reproduced in Singapore's Straits Times had the following account.


"Unlike previous executions of political prisoners which were carried out by firing squads with machine guns, Jang was stripped naked and thrown into a cage, along with his five closest aides. Then 120 hounds, starved for three days, were allowed to prey on them until they were completely eaten up. This is called “quan jue”, or execution by dogs.


"The entire process lasted for an hour, with Mr Kim Jong Un, the supreme leader in North Korea, supervising it along with 300 senior officials."

Quod erat demonstrandum?

S Narayanaswamy Iyer

 

tbs

0
There are also common men who sell their votes for a pocket of biryani and a cutting of IMFL and elect a politican and what can be expected from such politician......??

And no one talks about such common men.

hi

it happens in the name DEMOCRAZY.....common men want biriyani and a quarter....many political parties utilising this opportunity....


giving and taking both are equally bad....but supply and demand theory/....
 

tbs

0
hi

i can explain my own story to avoid corruption...in delhi....i have a flat in east delhi....DESU used to be called some years back...

my flat locked for many years...i paid electricity bill in advance for 5 yrs....still they disconnected.....i enquired abt it....

they told that my flat is locked....if i want to re connect the connection......i have to pay rupees five thousands and under the table

fiver thousands more .....i have to wait for one month for reconnection.....but i have only 3 days in delhi....just i paid two hundred

rupees to my society electrician for JUGGAD....i got connection immediately....again i paid rupees two hundreds to disconnect...

so my JUGGAD worked with out any bribe...
 
Whether RTO office or electricity or water issues, there are always local soltions.

I got road tax for car brought from chennai in bangalore and plied the vehicle in bangalore

Later I submitted a NOC from chennai and got the number plate changed to karnataka thru automobile association.

Become member and leave it to them to do the needful.

For electricity and water,use the local plumber and electrician to fix it .

Best go the level Director in electricity office and simply walk in without appointment.

Chances are you will be heard and problem fixed immediately.

It is the middle level that causes issues in these agencies.

One should know whom to go to fix anything.
 
Life can be very simple if only everyone takes it easy and not get worked up about anything.

These petty issues can make senior citizen mentally and physically sick.

The wonderful thing about india is everywhere there is a simple way to get anything.

Every agency evolves its own mechanisms -many times unwritten to find solutions to existing day to day issues.

Asking a few probing questions will reveal ingeneously simple solutions to vexed issues.

I do not understand why many appear so worked up about minor issues.

We brahmins have a way of making everything a moral issue.

We make noise about morality and the right path .

We forget the end to be achieved and keep arguing about the means .

We blow out of proportions small issues and want some hanged for petty reasons.

Life is too short to be wasted on such things.

We have not been able to change the world in our lifetime.

Why try now and get hurt?
 
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Brahmanyan

Active member
Dear Sir,

You would have spent money to take NOC from Puducherry, and visit the owner to get the paper work done.
You would have had tense moments, till the job was done. To 'save' these, people opt to pay money and get the job done. :couch2:

So, it is the lazy people, who encourage corruption.

But, in the episode I wrote about fixing new inlet of metro water for our house, it was NOT at all possible for us to go by rules!

The corporation guys WONT work, unless we pay them what they demand! :sad:

No ma'am I have not spent any amount to get NOC. I just rangup to my friend in Puducherry to do a little follow up. Surprisingly I came to know there is no provision in M V Act to issue NOC. All they have issued was just a letter confirming the ownership of vehicle as per their records. Of course I had to visit RTO office a number times.
This is an individual case. This may differ to circumstances.
During the tenure of CM, Mr.S M Krishna, many time bound standard procedures were initiated to avoid personal contacts with Government Officials to get routine permits. This helped the honest citizens a lot.
Best wishes,

Brahmanyan
Bangalore.
 
V

Vritra

Guest
Recent news reports that the Govt. at the centre seems to have approved for prosecution of 48 IAS, IPS, IRS Officers who are facing corruption charges and among this 13 reported to have been dismissed from service.

We have lot of platforms to fight against corruption.

In Tamil Nadu during the recent election there was a social activist group requesting every voter in that particular constituency to vote without accepting any bribe. They went for aggressive campaign against cash for vote and requested every voter not to accept cash. Awareness among the public is slowly catching up.

Anti-corruption wave is growing in India day by day. Some seek remedy through Courts and some take up the cause through media (who believe that the pen is mightier than sword) and there are social activist like Anna Hazare to fight and last but not the least, we have Vigilance and Anti Corruption Squad and there is also Vigilance Commission to deal with Officials who indulge in corruption.

We can not clean the country over night, it may certainly take time.

Above all, it is global phenomenon…..
 
V

Vritra

Guest
With more awareness and fighting against corruption, it is declining....

Corruption in public services has declined: CMS survey

The finding of the CMS survey, which compares corruption in public services between 2005 and 2016, reinforces the govt’s claim that it has made a dent in graft

New Delhi:
Ahead of the third anniversary of the National Democratic Alliance (NDA) government, a survey has found that both popular perception as well as experience of corruption in public services has declined.

The finding of the survey, CMS- India Corruption Study 2017, conducted by New Delhi based think tank Centre for Media Studies (CMS), which compares corruption in public services between 2005 and 2016, reinforces the government’s claim that it has made a dent in graft with its various anti-corruption initiatives.

According to the report, around one-third of the households surveyed experienced corruption in public services at least once in 2016 compared to 53% of households in 2005. While 73% of households perceived an increase in corruption level in public services in 2005, only 43% reported an increase in 2016.

The report also says that the estimated total amount paid as bribes went down from Rs20,500 crore in 2005 to Rs6,350 crore in 2016.

The report covers over 3,000 households in rural and urban areas across 20 states including Andhra Pradesh, Assam, Bihar, Chhattisgarh, Delhi, Gujarat, UP and Rajasthan.

Read more at: http://www.livemint.com/Politics/xv...-public-services-has-declined-CMS-survey.html
 
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