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A new view on reason for #corruption in india

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krish44

Gold Member
Gold Member
I always doubt whether contribution in temple hundi gets misdirected.

I have donated lights with fitting on appeal from them.

I can see them when installed.

I say no if it just performing only some ritual to appease some navagraha or god or goddess.

If the money is for poor ffeeding as part of celebrations in temple, I would promptly oblige with a few hundreds.

I like to see positive good out of contributions made to society.
 
Mr Pasad1

Your admired idol the faux-nomen "Brian from Godzone", New Zealand, starts his venomous sermon against us with the universal declaration:-

"Corruption in India is a cultural aspect. Indians seem to think nothing peculiar about corruption. It is everywhere." And you enthusiastically support it.

You are in fact alleging that all 1.3 billion Indians, without exception, are wholly corrupt. You are joining in the pernicious mendacious accusation that Indian culture from Mohendojaro cave-temples to Thanjavoor Big Temple, from Theruk-koothu to Bharatha-naatyam, to Thottil-thaalaattu to Isvara/Isvari Bhajanas, is a culture of corruption.

Sure, you are entitled to your judgment, your evaluation, your opinion. (Perhaps you have met and mingled with every single one of our 1.3 billions and found them palpably corrupt. Therefore you have first-hand witness evidence to support you.)

Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

So, instead of targetting only those vested with power, vested with discretion to act or not to act, vested with authority to direct others to do their dirty deeds, vested with custody of valuables they can misappropriate, why lash out at everybody, including the victims?

Or blindly support the lashers?

Please let me give you an example of how those who put their hard-earned money in banks in India are victimised.

Way back in the 1950's when my parents were alive and I started working, I began putting all I saved into bank current accounts in Kerala. Bank staff advised me that savings accounts would earn me interest. So I duly moved my money. Then other bank staff noted the accumulating savings and advised putting my savings into five-year fixed deposits, for bigger rates of interest. I did so.

My folks moved to Madras (as it then was), and I transferred my FDs to the Madras branch of the same Kerala bank. I didn't see any problems, as I assumed the new folk would be running the bank the same way as the Kerala staff did. By now each FD had grown to more than a lakh each, with accrued interest added at the maturity date every five years.

Then I moved overseas, and continued instructing my Madras bankers, through registered post, on renewals and handling of accrued interest. Suddenly, I found that my registered letters enclosing photocopies of the FDRs and my written instructions, went unacknowledged week after week and month after month.

So I interrupted my stay overseas and flew over to Madras. A local Dalit woman had been appointed Branch manager, and she bluntly denied having received any of my registered letters. (The previous manager I had dealt with was an affable Brahmin, and so were the senior Kerala bank staff.) I produced photocopies of the letters and enclosures I had sent the Madras branch. I also showed her confirmation notes from my overseas post office that the registered items had been duly sent to India. All to no avail.

I then asked her what had happened to my money. She said they had been moved to a "dead" account over he pst 10 to 1, earning no interest.

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krish44

Gold Member
Gold Member
India is changing.

Now corruption is mostly reducing at lower strata of society.

With more transparency and online payments for everything that matters to middle class,bribing for facilitation or priority in availing public services has got much reduced.

Now corruption has got restricted to high level really well off companies or individuals lobbying with money kickbacks for supplies and services contracts.

No one is after small money and petty bribery.
 

krish44

Gold Member
Gold Member
Some see only negatives in indian society.

India can be heavan if one is a little careful and not paranoid about everything.

There is a huge trust deficit due to invasion of technology in homes and public spaces.

We senior citizens are unable to come to terms with it and cope.

Nor can public sector employees in banks -who are unable to handle the digital platforms they are forced to operate.

Some complaining about deposits,money going into dead accounts due to mails not attended to , deficiency in transfers of pensions with no proper redressals{ I have lost

some which I do not think about as it is too small to chase and get back}. There is bad coordination between regions in banks leading to misery and just incompetent

employees who are just callous and rude.

No one wants really wants to cheat . It is only incapability to perform correctly and admit faults.

One can be more vigilant and more compassionate towards those who serve us.
 
Mr Prasad1 (contd.)


I then asked her what had happened to my moneys. She (the Madras Dalit woman branch manager) said they had been moved to a "dead" account over the past 10 to 15 years, earning no interest. She offered to retrieve the money and give me a cheque for the principal amount if I wished, but no backdated interest. That was the bank's policy, according to her. She maintained that, according to her records, I had neglected my account for years and had sent no instructions on renewals.

I told her I would think it over, and moved out of her office into a waiting room. There, the branch Head Accountant, a male Malayalee, whispered to me that if I agreed to share with her one-third of the accumulated 15-year compound interest (29.5% a year), then the Dalit manager would get the Kerala Head Office of approve backdating renewal of the FDRs as per normal. He said it was only a suggestion, but it was up to me to negotiate.

The suggestion stank of corruption, and was wholly abhorrent. When I re-entered the Dalit woman manager's office to bid her goodbye, she stood up hastily and told me she had been in touch with the Kerala Head Office by phone, and they had agreed to interest at "savings account" rate of 2% per year. Telling her thanks for her efforts, I said I would be in touch.

My next stop was at the Kerala Head Office, whose retired former Deputy Manager I had contacted in advance by phone. When I introduced myself, and produced all my documents, I had a great reception, with even hot tea and tidbits offered to me and my friend. The current Head Manager arranged for my accounts to be transferred immediately back from Madras to Kerala HO, on my signing the authorisation papers. The upshot was, all my FDRs were renewed retrospectively with full interest as if I had given due instructions before maturity. Not a single naya paisa was demanded as a bribe or paid.

S Narayanaswamy Iyer
 
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prasad1

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
Mr. Narayanswami,

Interesting episode.

I agree that there is some small minority who want to do the right thing.
There is a very large majority that still wants a bribe. That is sad.
 
Mr Prasad1

You seem to have missed the main point.

It is the small minority -- i.e. those vested with power, vested with discretion to act or not to act, vested with authority to direct others to do their dirty deeds, vested with custody of valuables they can misappropriate -- who are the fountains and deep wells of corruption. (Petty bankers with their cowed parishioners included.)

These are the corrupt ones. The helpless victims are the vast majority of the 1.3 billion inhabitants of this country. These suffer while the corrupt ones grow and prosper. Please do not mix the two classes up.

Do you still support coward faux-nomen "Brian from Godzone" New Zealand, (obviously not his real name or location -- Brainless from Devilzone would be more correct) when he spouts his venomous sermon against us with the universal declaration:-

"Corruption in India is a cultural aspect...... Indians seem to think nothing peculiar about corruption. It is everywhere." ?


Do you still associate yourself with the pernicious mendacious accusation that Indian culture from Mohendo-jaro cave-temples to Thanjavoor Big Temple, from Theruk-koothu to Bharatha-naatyam, from Thottil-thaalaattu to Isvara/Isvari Bhajanas, is truly a culture of corruption?

What are your proposals for getting India rid of corruption? Follow China, hunt down and hang the corrupt without mercy as traitors to the nation? Follow Duterte as he deals with drug pushers -- machine-gun them down?

S Narayanaswamy Iyer
 

krish44

Gold Member
Gold Member
All this talk of india being corrupt in an all pervasive way is irresponsible without much basis.

Inefficiency, incompetence -yes but low level corruption is NO.

I transact with many public officials and forums including banks, municipalities, electricity , water, fuel.pension offices, transport dept RTO licenses.

No where I have felt the need to bribe anyone nor any tout approached me.

I might end up with delays.

It is possible to live without bribing anyone anywhere.

Like advanced countries exchange if any takes place in high value deals to get favoured deals or contracts.
 
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prasad1

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
What are your proposals for getting India rid of corruption? Follow China, hunt down and hang the corrupt without mercy as traitors to the nation? Follow Duterte as he deals with drug pushers -- machine-gun them down?

S Narayanaswamy Iyer


Those are not the example. Take look at Singapore and Lee's leadership.

Incidents of bribery in Rwanda are negligible, anti-corruption watchdog Transparency International says.
Rwanda, which has been striving to rebuild itself following the 1994 genocide, was by far the least corrupt country in East Africa.
Rwanda and its neighbour Burundi were included in the East African Bribery survey for the first time.
Burundi was ranked as the most corrupt nation, dislodging Kenya, where a slight improvement was registered.
The survey measures bribery levels in the private and public sectors and was conducted between January and March this year.




My post was an observation by an individual. There was no solution proposed.
 
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prasad1

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
All this talk of india being corrupt in an all pervasive way is irresponsible without much basis.

Inefficiency, incompetence -yes but low level corruption is NO.

I transact with many public officials and forums including banks, municipalities, electricity , water, fuel.pension offices, transport dept RTO licenses.

No where I have felt the need to bribe anyone nor any tout approached me.

I might end up with delays.

It is possible to live without bribing anyone anywhere.

Like advanced countries exchange if any takes place in high value deals to get favoured deals or contracts.


A family member needed a death certificate for his wife, they would not release the body without a bribe. How long do you wait?
He had to pay Rs. 10,000.00 after negotiation.

I was flying out of Delhi at 2:30 am, It was a crowded plane. We had weighed our luggage before the flight, but when it was our turn to check in, the agent said our bags were overweight, that was a lie. All other agents conveniently walked away, and this agent demanded $500.00 as a bribe. I told him to charge an excess baggage fee, but he would not do that. Then a porter walked in trying to mediate, finally, I paid Rs 5000.00 so that I can make my flight.

To this date, I hate that experience. When I explained this to others that said I should have negotiated better. NO one was shocked.
 

tbs

Well-known member
A family member needed a death certificate for his wife, they would not release the body without a bribe. How long do you wait?
He had to pay Rs. 10,000.00 after negotiation.


I was flying out of Delhi at 2:30 am, It was a crowded plane. We had weighed our luggage before the flight, but when it was our turn to check in, the agent said our bags were overweight, that was a lie. All other agents conveniently walked away, and this agent demanded $500.00 as a bribe. I told him to charge an excess baggage fee, but he would not do that. Then a porter walked in trying to mediate, finally, I paid Rs 5000.00 so that I can make my flight.

To this date, I hate that experience. When I explained this to others that said I should have negotiated better. NO one was shocked.
hi

i agreed both...i had similar experiences in chennai last april 2017....i paid Rs 10,000.00 for my mother's death certificate...

still some mistakes in name of my mother...still not rectified...i paid excess baggage feewith the help of porter like attendent

in chennai airport..i bought a new luggage in airport to adjust some items...i had bitter experiences...in USA airport...

they allowed small two piece luggage in carry on baggage...in chennai airport ..the rule is different for same flight...

i dont want miss the flight for just arguement...so i obliged....MONEY AND INSIDER REQUIRED ANY GOVT WORK IN INDIA...

somebody said in a joke...govt pays salary for the employee to visit the office.....we have to PAY money for work in office...

just in hindi he said....DAFTAR ANE KELIYE SARKARI TANKA....DAFTAR MEIN KAAM KARNE KELIYE AADMI KOPAISA DENA

PADTA HAI...LOL
 
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Raji Ram

Gold Member
Gold Member
........ All other agents conveniently walked away, and this agent demanded $500.00 as a bribe. I told him to charge an excess baggage fee, but he would not do that. Then a porter walked in trying to mediate, finally, I paid Rs 5000.00 so that I can make my flight.

To this date, I hate that experience. When I explained this to others that said I should have negotiated better. NO one was shocked.
No one will be shocked because we are Indians living in India! :cool:

hamArA BhArat mahAn! :angel:
 

zebra16

Well-known member
No one will be shocked because we are Indians living in India! :cool:

hamArA BhArat mahAn! :angel:

Very hard for me to understand people going sarcastic or satirical and including phrases like "hamara Bharat Mahan" etc.

I can point out to many and varied good and unique points of Indians in your OWN posts and they were/are taken so much for granted that no need was felt to add adjective phrases to them. In fact many of the permanent moaners in this forum did not have the time or inclination to even add mere "like" to the said posts leave alone adding their replies.

What makes us just to keep piling up on miseries and continue to wail all our lives?
 
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"Those (China and the Philippines) are not the example. Take look at Singapore and Lee's leadership."

Mr Prasad1

"Desperate situations require desperate remedies." That is why I mentioned China and the Philippines, and their dealings with corruption and with drug trafficking effectively in their respective countries.

Island-nation-state Singapore is no comparison. Before the recent influx of some 1.2 million mainland Chinese, who were granted permanent residence, its Chinese-majority population was about 3 million. All aspects

No bringing in of drugs, even for one's own consumption. No couriering of drugs through Singapore to or from another destination. Mandatory death penalty for drug traffickers. No spitting in public. No littering. No throwing litter from windows or corridors of high-rise flats. No importation of cigarettes. No importation of newspapers from neighbouring Malaysia.

Swift trial and heavy exemplary penalty for defamation. Neither individuals nor foreign newspapers exempted. Super-efficient judiciary system at all levels. Swift execution of court verdicts by the administration. One single political party returned to power at every election since independence.

A one-House Parliament. No Ombudsman. No elections to local councils.

India's population is 1.3 million. Are you sure you can effectively impose, plus effectively and permanently enforce, all these restrictions and much more on all Indians?

After independence, Burma (now Myanmar) expelled all foreigners from the country -- not only the British and Anglo-Indians, but all Indians. The repatriates left with only the clothes on their backs, leaving everything behind. It is now trying to get rid of the alien Muslim Bengalis whose reproductive rate is five times that of native Burmese. (On Partition of Undivided British India, two large homelands were created for India's Muslims. Why has Independent India till today not dared to expel the hundreds of millions of Muslims still within India? Was it not the Muslims who introduced corruption into India, as we have seen?)

India is mired in Kashmir. India is nervously facing off China near the Bhutan border. India was unable to stop the Chinese invasion in 1962. Does India really and truly have the guts and determination to eradicate corruption among the rich and powerful vested interests within the country, come what may? Or even the desire to do so? Who will spearhead the campaign? With what resources?

S Narayanaswamy Iyer
 

krish44

Gold Member
Gold Member
It is the well off in india indulging in and also complaining about corruption.

Places like airport most do not go respecting the baggage limitations of flights or go a little early to sort out last minute issues and end up paying speed money to for easy

clearance.They convey the impression of being well off flaunting the american accent and dollars and end up as ready victim of some touts or airline loaders and support

staff.Places like delhi or chennai airport are notorious for baggage handlers holding passengers to ransom

Even abroad amsterdam schipoll is equally bad. I have had my bag stolen at airport hotel nearby during check in.

Nothing happens to normal passengers who do not have an air of extra rich.

They are left alone normally.

Even cab drivers fleece only foreign indians visiting india.

Once one talks in native tongue , they behave normally.
 

Raji Ram

Gold Member
Gold Member
Krish Sir! Your latest post reminds me of my friend.

She used to remove all jewels except the 'kodi' before going to buy veg!

She told me that it makes easy for getting good bargains! :lol:
 

Raji Ram

Gold Member
Gold Member
We don't have to brag with Ame'zhi'can accent to be fleeced! Let me tell my experience.

I had to get wheel chair assistance while returning from the U S of A, last year. That assistant guy was very nice; helped to get the

luggage; kept the boxes on the trolley and then pushed my wheel chair up to the taxi stand. When I gave him Rs. 300, he asked me

whether I can give him $ 25 instead! I told him that I gave all the $ bills to my son and have ONLY Indian money. He did NOT leave

before getting a chocolate packet from me! :cool:
 

krish44

Gold Member
Gold Member
You know RRji, even auto drivers in chennai once you say you are local act more reasonably.My wife is from chennai and I let her handle them . In delhi it is the reverse as

this is my hometown.Also we should not flaunt our wealth and instead act as one of them. Then they will be extra kind and share their cup of woes.Life has got expensive and

poor are badly hit by skyrocketing prices of essential items of daily needs.So most try to optimise and overcharge chose they think who can afford it.
 

Raji Ram

Gold Member
Gold Member
At the Boston Airport, the wheel chair assistant was happy with the $ 5 I gave him, as per my son's instruction! :)

London Heathrow staff were a bit hostile, even though one was an Indian lady; they made me walk for about 20 mts

and then only provided a battery car to reach the lounge. :sad:
 

Raji Ram

Gold Member
Gold Member
Krish Sir! The auto charges are different for travelling with normal dress and with Wedding Reception dress!

We always take a cab to attend receptions, to avoid arguing with the autowallahs. :car:
 
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