why should we not eat Soraikkai

[arunshanker]

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I have always been having this doubt in my mind since childhood
Why is it that we are not supposed to eat Soraikkai ?

 

[sapr333]

Dear Arun, what's botanical name for Soraikkai?

Lemme refresh my +2 botany Benthem and Hooker from a learned botanical scientist like you..

I guess Bottlegourd is its english name... Not sure...

Thanks in advance

 

[arunshanker]

Lagenaria siceraria

 

[sapr333]

Lagenaria siceraria

Thanks..

I think, the dried shell of this riped vegetable is used by sages as dining bowl/vase..Not sure its the same think...

 

[sapr333]

This is an interesting article compiled from the eminent food scientist Dr. K.T. Achaya in daily The Hindu's sci-fi section...

The author says, Bottle Gourd was very much used during Vedic Period...And interstingly he concludes it this way.."To my mind, debate about this issue today is meaningless and only inflammatory. We respect people and adore gods not for what they eat but what they stand for and teach us. To think and act otherwise is immature and infantile."

http://www.hinduonnet.com/seta/2004/10/21/stories/2004102100111600.htm

 

[happyhindu]

yes! i remember sorakaya swami, the sage of narayanavaram (the place is on the way from chennai to tirupathi). it seems he used to eat from the sorakaya vase. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorakaya_Swami

 

[chims]

There are 2 aspects to this question. One is the traditional Ahara Niyamams followed by Brahmins preclude many vegetables - of this suraikkai is alson one. ( Ahara Niyamam by Swamy Desikan ( vaishnavite Religious Head written some 700 years ago - Book named
Desika prabandham - Lifco Publications)

2.Suraikkai is a veli creeper on the huts of the Farmers- This is a regular plant of the under privileged community. So brahmins eschewed its use!

 

[sapr333]

2.Suraikkai is a veli creeper on the huts of the Farmers- This is a regular plant of the under privileged community. So brahmins eschewed its use!

Im sure you would have cherished 'Vattha Kolambu'''..Plugged from a solanacea plant, especially found in the shitting areas /dump yards of the village.. It was neither cultivated in mass, nor grown in home garden.. How it has become a vegetarian delicacy?

If I remember right, it belongs to Solanacea family.. (Arunshanker, correct me if im wrong)


All I remember about that was, while preparing for my +2 herbarium, for want of good score in practical exams. I struggled a lot to get a stem of, fresh flowering plant along with ripe fruit.... No gardens had it. It was not a packeted vegetable.. No agricultural university tried hybrids on this (Arun Pls ponder). No home-gardens planted it.. Driving in my BSA bicycles, sweating for long hours, like a Vasco Da Gama, finally,spotted it in a public excreta ground, near a crematorium's fence..

 

[arunshanker]

Im sure you would have cherished 'Vattha Kolambu'''..Plugged from a solanacea plant, especially found in the shitting areas /dump yards of the village.. It was neither cultivated in mass, nor grown in home garden.. How it has become a vegetarian delicacy?

If I remember right, it belongs to Solanacea family.. (Arunshanker, correct me if im wrong)


All I remember about that was, while preparing for my +2 herbarium, for want of good score in practical exams. I struggled a lot to get a stem of, fresh flowering plant along with ripe fruit.... No gardens had it. It was not a packeted vegetable.. No agricultural university tried hybrids on this (Arun Pls ponder). No home-gardens planted it.. Driving in my BSA bicycles, sweating for long hours, like a Vasco Da Gama, finally,spotted it in a public excreta ground, near a crematorium's fence..

If you mean
1. Sundakkai : (Turkey berry) AKA Canthium inerme

or 2. Manathakkali (black nightshade)AKA Solanum nigrum

vatthal then
Actually these are minor food items
no farmer can actually earn a living from cultivating it
ppl do for home needs
although recently it has been found to have a lot of medicinal properties
No way the Govt is going to pour money on developing a hybrid or for that matter a variety for this crop!
In other word If I ask for funding to develop a Hybrid or high yielding Sundakkai or manathakkali
the Review Panel will say "Poda Sundakkai, Sothuku vazhiya paaru! Evlo peru patniya irukanga- Sundakkaila araychi panna poranan!

 

[sapr333]

If you mean
1. Sundakkai : (Turkey berry) AKA Canthium inerme

or 2. Manathakkali (black nightshade)AKA Solanum nigrum

vatthal then

Dear Arun, thanks for the effort in digging the botanical name..Actually its Solanum Nigrum.. Herbarium collect for Solanacea family..

It took me back to my good old school days, were we were strictly asked to converse only in English, inside the campus.. In that pedagogue's scare, even nick names were baptized in English..Interestingly, one of my close friends nick name was "Solanum Nigrum" because he brings that Poriyal for lunch..


But the name 'manathankkali' is bit confusing to me!!!!.. I thought its Sundaikkai/Karimthakkali.... poriyal..sundaikkai vathal...The dried fruit, marinated in rich brine, sun dried,,and fried in oil.. goes well with butter-milk or curd rice..And vattha kuzhambu....Yummy...

 

[hariharan1972]

ch(i)ef sapr,

manathakalli and sundaikkai are certainly different but share the common trait of being yummy.

manathakalli is a tiny fruit, roughly about one-fifth of a single cadbury gem while sundaikkai can technically get as big as cad gem.

ripe manathakalli, which usually turns black, can be eaten raw and is quite sweet.

raw manathakalli can be made into a yummy koottu with a generous dash of tamarind, coconut and spices.

when similarly handled, sundaikkai kootu can give manathakalli a run for the money.

as you rightly observed, curd-marinated manathakalli and sundaikkai can be sun-dried and stored for the rainy day when the mama of the house cant venture out for veggies.

they can be deep fried and had as an accompaniment or treated with tamarind and pulses for a deligtful vatha kozhambu.

though the name suggests otherwise, vatha kozhambu is actually a 'method' and the vathal can easily be substituted with veggies such as aubergine and okra.

what tilts the scale effectively in favour of manathakalli is the fact that the manathakalli leaves are treated on par with any other palak (green).

manathakalli greens are very good to treat mouth ulcers and good option to reduce body heat.

i am extremely disappointed with mr arun shanker that he wouldnt consider sundaikkai/manathakalli fit enough for a research grant.

 

[kunjuppu]

ch(i)ef sapr,

...though the name suggests otherwise, vatha kozhambu is actually a 'method' and the vathal can easily be substituted with veggies such as aubergine and okra...

my vote for the added on veggie in murungaikkai.

since introduced to this about a couple of years ago, every time i make vatha kozhambu, murungakkai is a must.

a friend makes the same with full garlic pods added to the kozhambu (!)

i have made vathakozhumbu with also pavakkai vathal on occassions. different but does the job

all

 

[kunjuppu]

..the Review Panel will say "Poda Sundakkai, Sothuku vazhiya paaru! Evlo peru patniya irukanga- Sundakkaila araychi panna poranan!...

i think sundakaai is the most mocked vegetable for no reason. if i were a sundakkai, i would be having maha inferiority complex

by the way, is sundeli a shortened form of sundakkai eli (small mouse?)

 

[sapr333]

Now Im clear.. thanks to hari for explaining it's size, comparing with Cadburys gem.. ..

I was bit confused b't manathakkali earlier.. I think arun need to spell it..

Manathakkali leaves are also a good vegie stuff (Keerai) but not, the sundakkai leaf... im not sure if anyone tried it..

I remember my dad used to pop me with those manathakkali black ripe fruits, claiming its good for eye sight (its tastes similar to curry-leaf fruit, with tiny seeds tickling our taste buds like Fig) .Hmm!! May be true, he relied on spectacles, only a year after his retirement from his bureaucratic life .I believe sundaikkai fruits are not edible as raw fruit..If my memory is right, its bitter and stale.


Arun, SOS, needs some clarifications..

 

[sapr333]

my vote for the added on veggie in murungaikkai.

since introduced to this about a couple of years ago, every time i make vatha kozhambu, murungakkai is a must.

all

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drumstick_(vegetable)

India tops in the cultivation of Moringa Olifera, a native vegetable... It has good medicinal properties too.. The crushed juice of its roots are belived to be of high medicinal value and proved scientifically

A Dining advisory!! LIke how U.S issues 'Travel Advisory' to panic the back-pack travellors..Moringa oleifera is believed to be aphrodisiac...

One of Packiaraj's movie theme, is centred around this.. Dont remember the name, but seen it in school days..

 

[arunshanker]

ch(i)ef sapr,


i am extremely disappointed with mr arun shanker that he wouldnt consider sundaikkai/manathakalli fit enough for a research grant.

Oh Ho! you got it wrong
I am interested in working in any kai for that matter ( to tell you the truth I am presently working on a plant called Arabidopsis which is actually a no use plant in terms of food but immense use in terms of knowledge). But in research set up some one should fund
I submit a grant application and the funding agency vets before giving me the money to work with
and they are the people I am complaining about. They would hardly waste money on sundakkai unless I promise to isolate a cancer curing drug from that!

 

[arunshanker]

The question again

Hey guys
Guess I have to ask the question again as the thread has transgressed far out and now is into the realm culinary intricacies
I still have not got an answer to my question
Why shud TMs not eat Soraikkai

 

[kunjuppu]

Hey guys
Guess I have to ask the question again as the thread has transgressed far out and now is into the realm culinary intricacies
I still have not got an answer to my question
Why shud TMs not eat Soraikkai

here is a link to another forum where this was discussed but not with much more information

http://www.forumhub.com/southfood/20825.21.13.53.html

personally, i like it a lot. there is not all that much flesh, when the skin and the innards are removed. cut into 1 cm cubes.

saute oil with mustard and ulutham paruppu, add the sorakkai (loki), a wee bit of salt, turmeric, asafoetida and chili powder.

cook under low heat till the vegetable becomes, which will in about 8 minutes. the bottled gourd releases its own cooking water. no add on of aqua required.

goes well with almost any kozhambu. accompanies thayir saadham well too.

enjoy.

ps: sorakkai makes good moLagootal too

 

[sapr333]

saute oil

Saute :-Fried quickly in a little fat (Varutthal but not poriyal)

Hmm.. How perfect is it, to express something..

You must have been a teacher to Samuel Johnson & Anthony Bourdaine, in previous birth...



Arun: I think no one has so far objected you in trying Surakkai..Infact, you got some recipies here... Now,start try'in your hands in kitchen..

 

[arunshanker]

Saute :-Fried quickly in a little fat (Varutthal but not poriyal)

Hmm.. How perfect is it, to express something..

You must have been a teacher to Samuel Johnson & Anthony Bourdaine, in previous birth...



Arun: I think no one has so far objected you in trying Surakkai..Infact, you got some recipies here... Now,start try'in your hands in kitchen..

Actually I eat all vegetables and have also tasted almost all the eatable animals but for the past two years I have reverted to Veg food
I have no qualms with sorrakkai I was living in the North for the past 15 years and you don't get Pushanikkai easily and hence we had to use Loki for moorkozhambu
It is just that I wanted to know why such a rule existed I don't see a logic here not that all the other rules the TMs follow have logic!

 

[tbs]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drumstick_(vegetable)

India tops in the cultivation of Moringa Olifera, a native vegetable... It has good medicinal properties too.. The crushed juice of its roots are belived to be of high medicinal value and proved scientifically

A Dining advisory!! LIke how U.S issues 'Travel Advisory' to panic the back-pack travellors..Moringa oleifera is believed to be aphrodisiac...

One of Packiaraj's movie theme, is centred around this.. Dont remember the name, but seen it in school days..

hi sapr..
the Packiaraj's movie is called ANTHA EZHU NAATKAL...
the famous murangaikai mahimai...it realeased in 70s or
80s.. i like manathakkali/sundakkai very much....this is always my grocery...when i visit to india/chennai regularly...

regards

 

[sapr333]

It is just that I wanted to know why such a rule existed I don't see a logic here not that all the other rules the TMs follow have logic!

Dear Arun,

Such religious dining-rules existed in all religions, which is called as Dietary-Law.

Islam/Jewism still has the strong dietry laws like forbidding pork/non-scaly fish, and reccomendation of Hallal food, slaughtering procedures etc. And they still follow it, inspite of changing time in 2000 yrs.

In christian view, before JC, in old testament days, there were strict dietary laws too.. Its believed, man living in uncivilized /unorganised/jungle way of life, not aware of health/Hygiene, God commanded them to follow a set of diet rules. O.T days dietary laws are equally the same as Jewism, and was abandoned, only after J.C letting people to choose their own taste, in line with the broad guideline of 'Love Thy Neighbour", there by abandoning all the age old dietary laws.

Similarly, Hinduism also has lot of laws, set by sages... Like J.C, buddha too gave the liberty of choosing people's own food. He ate pork.. But Hinduism, like Jewism/Islam still holds on to strict dietary law and followers are still adhering/advocating the age old laws..

A good theological / theosophical approach in line with the modern era is what needed at this phase of globalization & modern science.

 

[Brahmanyan]

Why Should We not eat Sorakkai

Dear Friends,

I have been told that "Sorakkai" (Lauki in Hindi) is a rich source of minerals and vitamins. While searching for details I found the following

"A rich source of minerals and vitamins, bottle gourd contains many healing and medicinal properties. The cooked vegetable is not only easy to digest but also contains cooling, calming (or sedative), diuretic properties. It contains low calories also has iron, Vitamin C and B complex. Regular consumption of this vegetable provides relief to people suffering with digestive problems, diabetics and convalescents."

I do not understand why this vegetables are not used for cooking in South Indian Brahmin house.

Regards,
Brahmanyan.

 

[arunshanker]

hi sapr..
the Packiaraj's movie is called ANTHA EZHU NAATKAL...
the famous murangaikai mahimai...it realeased in 70s or
80s.. i like manathakkali/sundakkai very much....this is always my grocery...when i visit to india/chennai regularly...

regards

Correction it is
Mundhanai Mudichu

By introducing the simple drumstick as a libido-increaser in a single scene, Bhagyaraj made it famous.

 

[arunshanker]

Dear Arun,

Such religious dining-rules existed in all religions, which is called as Dietary-Law.

Islam/Jewism still has the strong dietry laws like forbidding pork/non-scaly fish, and reccomendation of Hallal food, slaughtering procedures etc. And they still follow it, inspite of changing time in 2000 yrs.

In christian view, before JC, in old testament days, there were strict dietary laws too.. Its believed, man living in uncivilized /unorganised/jungle way of life, not aware of health/Hygiene, God commanded them to follow a set of diet rules. O.T days dietary laws are equally the same as Jewism, and was abandoned, only after J.C letting people to choose their own taste, in line with the broad guideline of 'Love Thy Neighbour", there by abandoning all the age old dietary laws.

Similarly, Hinduism also has lot of laws, set by sages... Like J.C, buddha too gave the liberty of choosing people's own food. He ate pork.. But Hinduism, like Jewism/Islam still holds on to strict dietary law and followers are still adhering/advocating the age old laws..

A good theological / theosophical approach in line with the modern era is what needed at this phase of globalization & modern science.

Thats OK but most laws had some explanation
like for example Pig is a dirty animal for Muslims General Non veg involves killing, Garlic and Onions had libido increasing properties etc.,
etc.,
I just cant understand Sorraikkai law