Why are whipping up fear and hysteria?

[malgova.mango]

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Kamban says ...

With the first slaying of the demoness - Boothagi .... The Lord of Death after a very long time began to taste the blood of Ashuras. He thoroughly enjoys that. Such is the akramam of Ashuras.

At first Lord hesitate to kill...thinking she is a woman... Sage Vishwamitra has to say no she is not woman , but a demoness to convince the Lord.

" Pennala Rama Ival - Pey enrar...."

 

[KRS]

Dear malgova mango Ji,

You make two discussion points above - one in your last posting and the other one about the meaning of 'ithihassa'. Both deserve a response from Sri Nacchinaarkiniyan Ji.

May I please request you not to respond in a manner which seems to belittle his postings without any scholorly references from yourself? This will go a long way in making sure that we have open and healthy discussions.

I applaud Sri Seshadri Ji in following this simple rule for a discussion.

Regards,
KRS

 

[hariharan1972]

As long as we do not take our Puranas and epics literally as factual history we will have no problem.

Sir, I am not sure I understand this.

Could you kindly explain at your convenience ?

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

The ancient literary works in Sanskrit were transmitted orally for a long time before being written down. They were written down by different people from different parts of India. So a number of manuscripts of Valmiki Ramayana and Mahabharata are available. These differ in many details. When you study Sanskrit literature in an academic institution, you study about the different versions/manuscripts of the literature.

Only Vedas are almost the same throughout India. But even here there are minor differences. About differences if you take the book Vishnu Sahasranama published by LIFCO, Madras, you will find these variations mentioned as Pata Bhetham. Even in small Dhyana slokas/ashtakams you will find differences.

The main reason for these is the heritage of oral tradition.

About Valmiki Ramayana I quote

The text survives in numerous complete and partial manuscripts, the oldest surviving of which is dated from the eleventh century AD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramayana

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

The asuras are usually called demons, but this is not a terribly good translation, for it denotes a sinister quality which is not always in the character of these beings. Strictly speaking, the asuras are the powerful beings who are opposed to the devas. In early Vedic times, they were originally another class of gods, but who were incorporated into the new pantheon. Such important Vedic gods as Varuna and Mitra were classified as asuras. By the end of the Vedic period, however, the asuras had attained their more demonic role. Certainly some of the asuras were quite evil, such as Vritra, but some of them were also as pious if not more so than some of the gods. They would, at times, even be more powerful than the gods, forcing them to flee in the face of their power until some way of dealing with them could be found. On the other hand, in certain instances they were known to work alongside the gods for a common goal.

- Encyclopedia Mythica

Asuras, Danavas, Daityas, Rakshasas - They belonged to a different tribe/race than the Devas. As I said earlier this was the norm then and shows the position of women in those times. And also the the conflict between different tribes. The way Seeta was abducted by Ravana also is indicative of the treatment of women. Kamban changed it because society had improved by then.

The Viswamitra episode quoted by my friend is in relation to Thataka and not Surpanaka. Thataka was an Asura. Surpanaka was a Rakshasi. Again quoting Kamban is like quoting Ramanand Sagar.

An aside: In the Zoroastrian holy book Ahura Mazdah, Asuras are the heroes and Devas the villains. Ahura is Asura. May be we are the breakaway faction. Or old conflict?

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Ramayana and Mahabharata are called Epics.An Epic is a lengthy narrative poem ordinarily concerning a serious subject containing details of heroic deeds and events significant to a culture or nation. Puranas could fall under Legends/Mythology.

Now both Ramayana and Mahabharata were based on historical figures and happenings. Ramayana on the legendary king Rama and Mahabharata on one of the biggest battles of all times. In the modern definition they could be called Historical fiction. The heroic deeds and events were written to form the basis of the Puranic/Itihasic phase of the Hindu religion.

But to insist that they represent actual history is far fetched. Did the Monkey people exist? Did the Rakshasas exist. There is no anthropological evidence of monkey men. Whether the modern Sri lanka is the Lanka of the Ramayana has been questioned. Many alternate places have been suggested. The question arises because of the distance involved and other inconsistencies.

About Puranas most of them were written in the middle ages. Around 13th century. They contradict each other. They expound stories like Varaha Avatara where the earth sinks into the ocean. One of the Puranas even included the story of Jesus as they continued to be written till the 18th century.

As a Bhakta I believe in Asuras, Ramayana and the Puranas.

But as an individual I do not believe that either the epics or Purans represent real history. I have given my reasons above.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

My friend is laughing at my statement of "not antagonizing Christians." We live in a real world where we have to live peacefully with Muslims, Christians, Jains, Sikhs and others. I do not think we can do that if we antagonize these communities.

We as Hindus should not antagonize the followers of any other religion. If we do that we are breaking the basic tenets of Hinduism.

 

[kunjuppu]

malgova,

greetings once more.

sir, you were among us, a while ago, and are familiar with some unsavoury behaviour, when the administrators had to intervene re the nature of postings by a few of our participants a while.

these posters indulged in slandering, mocking, belittling some of our esteemed members' posts. personally, i feel that this type of response is more the noise emanating from an empty vessel.

add to it, through cut 'n posting, they were propating a divisive socio political agenda. not quite the right place, this forum, per the administrators.

as you travel through the threads, a wide spectrum of logic is discussed, with a level of curiosity, interest and above all, an unsaid mutual respect. knowledge, here, is respected and a display of the same, is a catalyst to more queries.

we sir, in this forum, are indeed a knowledge seeking humanists in the best of definition, some with an erudtion, that many of us can benefit.

i think, the best arguements and logic, scream to be heard, even when whispered.

may i request you to follow the norms of the latter manner, than stray, even be it inadvertently, into the realms where we would be conducting ourselves, sub par, re the decorums of this forum.

let us all remember that we are all guests in this forum. and conduct ourselves, between and among us, in a manner, befitting our commonality of identity and a broadbased concern for our community's welfare.

thank you.

 

[happyhindu]

Am running high temp, head is like a hot boiled egg, very blur, but i really want to post some stuff from my end..will do it in detail later as well in the other thread for unity among brahmins...

just wanted to say this to MM-ji - please do not see the asuras so derisively...spiritually speaking, each one of us has both a deva and an asura in us (you also had mentioned it once before i think)...but talking in terms of genes and history as it is being debated, if you are a southindian, or have lived in southindia for a very long time, and from the brahminical lot, it is very likely that you might have inherited some persian markers which some speculate might correspond to asuric groupings. Also historically speaking if am not wrong (please correct me if i am) the bhargavas, etc wud be the asuric grouping (ravana was also called asura bcoz his brahmin father was from that lineage) as also was parasu-rama (parasus=persian)....kshatriya clans (like rama) vs parasurama cud be the indoaryan versus the indopersian fights...shukracharya is another example coming to may mind right now of a brahmin of the ashoura sect..

apart from that, wanted to say this -- we must feel lucky that we are getting the opportunity to interact and learn from someone like Sri Nacchinarkiniyanji. Unknowingly sometimes we can hurt others by not realizing that we are infact being rude, but please let us try to interact with love of learning rather than being decided in our pronouncements..

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Nacchinarkiniyan Ji,

How succinctly put. These are the two central ideas that should guide our reaction to other religions.

Some people confuse this with the idea of defending our right to practicing our religion. We should never confuse the two. In a democracy there are various legal means availble to us to prevent others from interfering with our religion, without resorting to goonda ways. We need to do everything to constantly strengthen our democracy, not tear it down for an unattainable vision.

Just my two cents.

Namaskarams,

KRS

My friend is laughing at my statement of "not antagonizing Christians." We live in a real world where we have to live peacefully with Muslims, Christians, Jains, Sikhs and others. I do not think we can do that if we antagonize these communities.

We as Hindus should not antagonize the followers of any other religion. If we do that we are breaking the basic tenets of Hinduism.

 

[malgova.mango]

Cool off... Rest first. This sort of tension is age old even, eons old...
Recover first.

"Andathil Ullathu Pindathil Undu" - you might have heard this saying - so I'm not mentioning any genes here - so be at peace

Am running high temp, head is like a hot boiled egg, very blur, but i really want to post some stuff from my end..will do it in detail later as well in the other thread for unity among brahmins...

just wanted to say this to MM-ji - please do not see the asuras so derisively...spiritually speaking, each one of us has both a deva and an asura in us (you also had mentioned it once before i think)...but talking in terms of genes and history as it is being debated, if you are a southindian, or have lived in southindia for a very long time, and from the brahminical lot, it is very likely that you might have inherited some persian markers which some speculate might correspond to asuric groupings. Also historically speaking if am not wrong (please correct me if i am) the bhargavas, etc wud be the asuric grouping (ravana was also called asura bcoz his brahmin father was from that lineage) as also was parasu-rama (parasus=persian)....kshatriya clans (like rama) vs parasurama cud be the indoaryan versus the indopersian fights...shukracharya is another example coming to may mind right now of a brahmin of the ashoura sect..

apart from that, wanted to say this -- we must feel lucky that we are getting the opportunity to interact and learn from someone like Sri Nacchinarkiniyanji. Unknowingly sometimes we can hurt others by not realizing that we are infact being rude, but please let us try to interact with love of learning rather than being decided in our pronouncements..

 

[happyhindu]

Cool off... Rest first. This sort of tension is age old even, eons old...
Recover first.

"Andathil Ullathu Pindathil Undu" - you might have heard this saying - so I'm not mentioning any genes here - so be at peace

Alright mm-ji (though i don't understand wht is the tension u r talking abt nor do i care abt it)...its good u replied but i wished you had included one word for not having been right with Sri-Nacchinarkiniyanji...anyways...peace.

 

[happyhindu]

MM-ji, just a pose: For someone who takes the scriptures so literally...lets say you end up as an asura, what wud you do?

 

[malgova.mango]

Cool off... Rest first. This sort of tension is age old even, eons old... the debates between a muni and Lord Rama is even more intense than what's happening here. So Recover first.

"Andathil Ullathu Pindathil Undu" - you might have heard this saying - I'm not mentioning any genes here. - so be at peace and recover first.

If you want to learn, do not scout internet and books all the twisted logic will only twist you further.

When you want to learn, learn it correctly - no need to de-learn and re-learn again. Take a proffessional approach.

Here Mr. Nachhi is not a traditional scholar, he himself said it is a hazy thought of lazy person. I don't know who he is. But he is assailed by doubts that I see clearly. I see no Shraddha in him in our scriptures , as he openly admits so the insight gained will be proportional to that.

For my this style of approach, I can't help , I tried a normal method - no response from him. Instead quite few like Chintana, KRS , Kunjuppu began to reply for him. Are they his spokesperson.. the drama I went thru' is a real soap-opera.

One of these KRS after several posts of dicussion , said his intention is not discussion but to support whatever nacchi said. How would you feel, tell me ? he said he want to quit, I told him bye bye and I'm happy about it.

Hey I'm here for genunie discussion not to argue who is right and wrong. I could be wrong so what , proove to me I'm wrong , the next post you'll see me my admission of it and an apology. Guys here are stiff-necks with their egos in the clouds.

So this style naturally came to me - no deliberation

Am running high temp, head is like a hot boiled egg, very blur, but i really want to post some stuff from my end..will do it in detail later as well in the other thread for unity among brahmins...

just wanted to say this to MM-ji - please do not see the asuras so derisively...spiritually speaking, each one of us has both a deva and an asura in us (you also had mentioned it once before i think)...but talking in terms of genes and history as it is being debated, if you are a southindian, or have lived in southindia for a very long time, and from the brahminical lot, it is very likely that you might have inherited some persian markers which some speculate might correspond to asuric groupings. Also historically speaking if am not wrong (please correct me if i am) the bhargavas, etc wud be the asuric grouping (ravana was also called asura bcoz his brahmin father was from that lineage) as also was parasu-rama (parasus=persian)....kshatriya clans (like rama) vs parasurama cud be the indoaryan versus the indopersian fights...shukracharya is another example coming to may mind right now of a brahmin of the ashoura sect..

apart from that, wanted to say this -- we must feel lucky that we are getting the opportunity to interact and learn from someone like Sri Nacchinarkiniyanji. Unknowingly sometimes we can hurt others by not realizing that we are infact being rude, but please let us try to interact with love of learning rather than being decided in our pronouncements..

 

[happyhindu]

hmmm...there is another one starting off here.....anyways...forget it.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

I think I should respond to some of the observations of my friend MM.

First he is at least one person who is not happy to see me posting in the forum again. Basically we differ in our perception of Hinduism. He swears by Varnashrama Dharma whereas I denounce it unequivocally. I have made this clear in many of my postings. MM believes that the caste system is the fundamental tenet of Hinduism whereas I believe that caste system has brought about the ruin of Hinduism. He is always talking about Svadharma by which he means the Varnashrama Dharma. MM started a thread attacking Bharathiar for his verse "Jathikal Illayadi papa". Need I say more. Equality for women is again an unknown concept for him.

Now when you have nothing relevant to post in a discussion, you start with derision, sarcasm, and outright abuse. These are the weapons used by people who refuse to accept anybody else's view than their own.

You meet people like MM often. Tamil Brahmin community has a number of them. Though they are in a very small minority, they are very vocal. They believe in the caste system absolutely and the supremacy of the Brahmin. The teaching of Sri Ramakrishna, Swami Vivekananda, Swami Sivananda and a host of others has no place in their Hinduism. It is these people who drove the Dalits to other religions. They have never accepted the Gods/Goddesses of the other castes/tribals. Tell them about Valmiki and Vyasa not being Brahmins and they just ignore such facts. Again tell them about women Rishis like Gargi, Maithreyi, Lopamudra. No, in their world they do not exist.

This forum is for the betterment of the Tamil Brahmin community. For betterment we should see how we can live in peace with other communities. Not talk about going back to some undefined and unspecified roots which never existed except in the imagination of these kind of Brahmins.

We will have disruptions from MM and his likes. I am thankful to the other members who have taken up cudgels on my behalf. But this cuts no ice with MM as even Chintana the administrator could not control his vitriolic outbursts.

 

[malgova.mango]

Dear Nacchi!

Let's have a discussion now.

I think I should respond to some of the observations of my friend MM.

Good... Thanks for that ...

First he is at least one person who is not happy to see me posting in the forum again. Basically we differ in our perception of Hinduism. He swears by Varnashrama Dharma whereas I denounce it unequivocally. I have made this clear in many of my postings. MM believes that the caste system is the fundamental tenet of Hinduism whereas I believe that caste system has brought about the ruin of Hinduism.

I gave ample reasons to support my belief. I've saaw the positive sides of the natural order , I even give links how one of our great saints extols the benefits of that order. So it is simply not a belief - It is above that, it is the recognition of a natural order, it has nothing to do with one's belief.

We have protected a lot of Shakas and our scriptures only because of that order. If people see India as a land of spiritual store to till this date is because of that.

Your belief has no reason , it is not the caste system that brought the ruin of Hinduism - it is the abuse of it. Any system is prone to abuse , so too the natural order.

Do you see the state of Democracy the perfect conception of by the Utopians - What's wrong , is it democracy - no the abuse of it.

Hinduism is not that ruined , it is having difficult times , but it is protected by the Lord Himself . You should know the famous shloka of Bhagavat Gita.

He is always talking about Svadharma by which he means the Varnashrama Dharma. MM started a thread attacking Bharathiar for his verse "Jathikal Illayadi papa". Need I say more.

If he is wrong , he is wrong my dear, I don't care if ihe is Bharatiyar or whosoever. If I didn't give reason then you can say - I gave ample reason why he is wrong. If you don't agree to than then putforth your views that's fitting for the respect some people give to you. Point by Point you rebutt.


Equality for women is again an unknown concept for him.

Ha,ha,ha..... Good cooking. From where you get this preception.

Now when you have nothing relevant to post in a discussion,

Nothing - You mean really nothing... I thought even your friend KRS said 2 points worth discussing.. you mean nothing

you start with derision, sarcasm, and outright abuse. These are the weapons used by people who refuse to accept anybody else's view than their own.

hu,hu.... if I attack any person then you can say I'm vulgar , base etc...
But don't tell me I can't joke or ridicule or criticize the content..people regularly do that.

Believe me, I've nothing to do with you, I don't know you are black,white,short,tall or anything - why should I use my weapon.

You meet people like MM often. Tamil Brahmin community has a number of them. Though they are in a very small minority, they are very vocal. They believe in the caste system absolutely and the supremacy of the Brahmin.

Did I said in any post that Brahmins are superior... I explicitly said Brahmins is as same as any other Varna - I fully subscribe to MahaPerieval's view on this. No man is superior - you ask Mdm HH - what Mdm HH.

Infact this complex is the root cause of all the moral detoriation of our society - this is precisely the disease - to be treated and rooted out.

Before God' presence all are equal - if I ever given the signal that we are superior - I seek your pardon.

So I'm with you - don't worry - Lets join hands to treat this disease.

The teaching of Sri Ramakrishna, Swami Vivekananda, Swami Sivananda and a host of others has no place in their Hinduism.

Common they are all swamijis - why shoud I think like that. Cool..

It is these people who drove the Dalits to other religions.

Again you are getting carried away.. I've nothing to say ..

They have never accepted the Gods/Goddesses of the other castes/tribals.

You ask Kunjuppu how I was passionate about the tribals of Indonesia..
Infact I was passionate about preserving the native culture be it tribal or ours. You got me completely wrong ...

Tell them about Valmiki and Vyasa not being Brahmins and they just ignore such facts. Again tell them about women Rishis like Gargi, Maithreyi, Lopamudra. No, in their world they do not exist.

Again you go wrong .. I was always praising Vyasa - he is my Guru - Without him there is no Vedas, no Brhama Sutra.. nothing .

They are rishis - seers - above all the divisions revered and worshipped by us.

Gargi, Maithreyi - Rishi Pathnis of Sage Yagyavalkya - I've wrote a post about the great rishi - without him "Shukla Yajur Veda" is not possible -
The Dialogue between His Consort Maithreyi and himself sheds many lights on our sub-conscious mind - the famous saying "Atamanasu Kamaya Sarvam Priyam Bhavati" comes from there dialogue.
Lopa Mudra is the consort of Sage Agasthiyar - the gaurdian rishi of tamil people - All of them are revered even by devas.

This forum is for the betterment of the Tamil Brahmin community. For betterment we should see how we can live in peace with other communities.

If we don't acknowledge the atrocities commited to us , all the native cultures we can't go forward. You can tell them please live your life , and let us live our lives peacefully . Let all the native cultures exist as many as possible.

Not talk about going back to some undefined and unspecified roots which never existed except in the imagination of these kind of Brahmins.

??????

We will have disruptions from MM and his likes. I am thankful to the other members who have taken up cudgels on my behalf. But this cuts no ice with MM as even Chintana the administrator could not control his vitriolic outbursts.

What's that you are driving at ? You want to portray I'm the bad egg in this forum is it. Good try.

 

[malgova.mango]

HH !

you got me wrong - I said don't scout the internet and books if you want to really learn - Look for proffessionals.
Since I'm in the internet - it automatically means , I'm as naive as anybody here on this subject.
Cleared.

 

[malgova.mango]

I can say ramayana in 4 lines... still it is itihasa
could say in 400 lines still it is the same. It happed thus. literally

this is what story line is all about.

.............................

Oh readers - please ponder

Devagi and Kamsa are brother and sister by blood.

Devagi - is of the qualities of Deva as the name implies.
Kamsa - is called Asura

Why?

Could anyone tell?

 

[happyhindu]

HH !

you got me wrong - I said don't scout the internet and books if you want to really learn - Look for proffessionals.
Since I'm in the internet - it automatically means , I'm as naive as anybody here on this subject.
Cleared.

Yes sir cleared.

Please let us think in terms of maintaining peace. Lets leave things at this. And no more looking back please..thanks.

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

In a discussion of this nature, there are bound to be opposing views...It is the conviction of a person which acts as the impetus of his view.

The "Shraddha" which malgova is talking about, in my view, is the "way of life" and "pattern of thought" which needs to be cultivated to understand our scriptures. One has to experience that life to be convinced - no amount of discussions would suffice.

But then again, there are people like me who are traditional, but have an open mind regarding other faiths... in a sense am rising above the logic of religions to understand what this is all about. I may be wrong, but it is up to the me to analyze, experience the results and choose.

I would probably appear to malgova as a confused person, for I have not reached his state of conviction yet... so, there is an element of truth for those who agree with his perception. No denying this.

History (his+story?) as we all know is not perfect or accurate as regards our scriptures. There are a lot of differing views from time immemorial, which again, maybe the sole reason for us "hindus" to remain disparate all along the centuries? Is the jati system real? How can we be convinced that the same God created unequal status in a species? Hard to believe!

As times change, we see several practices being obsolete and not fitting in with the scheme of things. There may be many reasons, but it is the fact. So, the other line of reasoning, as opposed to the traditional, is also justified in its own right.

If a debate is to be truly done, then it can be only with the authentic reference of our scriptures - is it possible? Net based references are questionable (again, does not mean that everything is a sham). So may of the net based literature is a result of western translation and perception and hence may be distorted. To have a final judgement based on this may not be the right approach. There are many scholars who do not contribute to this forum (or on the net), but are convinced of the traditional methods (including the jati system), and whose views would concur with that of malgova. So, it would be naive to rebuke his line of thoughts.

Will the Pope agree that there are other gods apart from jesus? If he does not, can it be construed that he is parochial in his thinking and hence is outdated? No, I dont think that the christian community would come to such a conclusion. So, I believe that malgova is right in what he says. And hence his undeniable faith on the varna-system. Agreed that this may not go well in the current times, but I believe that it is an explanation which he owes.

But to counter conversion, we have to have a stance, and that would arise only out of pure belief in our scriptures... The earlier "Yugas" were different and hence cannot be compared to with the present times. Extrapolation of logic (which is based on our current view of things) may not be correct. The absence of scientific evidence or "fossils" does not disprove anything.

So, my take on this would be to believe in our scriptures while adapting to the changing times... For belief gives rise to conviction and conviction gives rise to passion, courage and confidence. This is what we need. Not discarding that portion of scriptures that we deem unnecessary for our concept of "unity". It has to be from within and not by negating the views of our ancestors.

The real point of questioning is when (or where) all religions dissolve... but am afraid that our society is not in that stage yet.

Conflict of opinions is inevitable, but it should be presented in a manner that intends to convey the intent without maligning the other.

Regards,
Seshadri

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

There is a lot of talk about tradition.

These are some of the threads started by me

Oral tradition of the Vedas

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=1207

Indian Philosophy

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=1367

Panini's grammer

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=1337

Brahmins and Pujas

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=1217

These threads reflect our tradition.

Then am I a traditional Brahmin? The answer lies in how you define a traditional Brahmin. I do Puja every day for hours. I have learnt how to recite the Vedas and recite the Vedas. I have the Athikaram to perform Yagnas and perform them regularly. I have been given Diksha long time back. I have learnt Sanskrit and is involved in promotion of Sanskrit. I have a degree in Indology .

Then I perform Yagnas only for spiritual purposes and only for myself and my family. I am not a Purohita. I do not believe in calling other Brahmins for performing rituals like Punyahavachanam etc. which I do myself. I believe that women have the right to recite the Vedas and perform Yagnas. If Vak Ambirini can be the Rishi of a Vedic Sukta why have we prevented the women from reciting the Vedas. I have discussed this issue in another thread.

I do not believe in caste system and believe that all castes should be allowed to recite the Vedas and perform Yagna.

Do my beliefs make me a non traditional Brahmin even though I do more than what many traditional Brahmins in the way of religious tradition?

Again why do I post here at all.

Life can not be only religious practices. Since I do not do anything else it has to be balanced with service to the society. I believe I am doing service by providing information here. This is a small part of service activities on the Internet. Mind you I provide only information and my opinion.

1. Data: symbols

2. Information: data that are processed to be useful; provides answers to "who", "what", "where", and "when" questions

3. Knowledge: application of data and information; answers "how" questions

4. Understanding: appreciation of "why"

5. Wisdom: evaluated understanding.

My opinion of the scriptures is given in this thread

Mythology

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=1225

I can post excerpts from the original literature in Sanskrit. I can quote sources with ISBN number. But that is too much of a hassle and not required for this forum. This is only to generate your interest in our culture and traditions.

I post here and not in a blog or web site because I want to keep it strictly anonymous. Even this has been questioned by some people. Be rest assured you will never meet me. I do not interact with the general society.

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Salutations Shri Nacchi,

I respect and admire your knowledge, and your intent to be amongst us in this forum...

It is my view that comparison in today's light as to what could have been centuries ago would not lead anywhere... for mind is capable of fantasising anything.

As regards the fear and hysteria on the "conversion" issue:

The danger facing us "Hindus" today is the indigenisation of the "foreign" culture... the intent of the missionary is not to truly '"liberate", but to enrol members to their "club"... and here we have to voice out that this is against the spirit... We may be seen as agressive, but you see, the missionaries are not the type of people who would engage in a "fair" way... and hence, whatever sweetness is there on the outside, it is but to cover the bitterness inside.

Self-interest is as important as the societal interest - for only if we take care of the "self", we would be able to help the other. This is universal, and religion is no exception.

Regards,

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Nacchinarkiniyan Ji,

It is deja vu all over again! Sri MM Ji knows your views clearly (also my views) on various topics. We also know that discussions end being stultified, with both sides repeating their positions.

It is because Sri MM Ji has in fact avoided many questions I and others including you have posed. For example,

1. If Varna system is indeed the perfect system, how do you go back to it with today's conditions?

2. There are so many revered Gurus who say that the Varna system has relevance today. Yet he quotes one Guru, that too HH Shankaracharyal. He totally dismisses the idea that the importance of this system may not be a closed topic - it is still being debated.

3. I pointed out that when we talk about Brahmins like him, he may be doing 20% of what an ideal brahmin is supposed to do, and may be people like me are 15 percenters. He has no answer.

4. His view that women should not have a job and a career especially when they have children at home - this is clearly against today's life. Does he have a solution? No.

5. There are some Shastras on the book that clearly discriminate against the lowest of the low and women in our society. Would he concede that these strictures are wrong? No. In his book, ALL our books, bot Srutis and Smritis are totally valid and good. If this is so, why our society is in this sad condition? Oh, I forget. He will ofcourse blame the muslims and the English for our societal condition to deteriorate. He would not place any blame on the so called 'higher' castes in our religion.

6. He wants unity of all Brahmins but then he views Visishtadwaitha and Dwaitha as subordinate philosophies to Advaitham. Why? Because he follows Advaitham.

I can go on and on. But because he would not answer any of the above questions and issues but rather would just state his belief again and again, at several times, I have said that 'we agree to disagree' and moved on. But he does not extend the same coutrtesey. His posting two days ago as an unsolicited reaction to your posting is an example.

As long as people like Sri MM is posting here, I will never quit the Forum. Yes, it is not fun to get in to the mud and wrestle. But I will do that if I have to protect the right of anyone with new ideas to speak out, without being attacked and insulted.

Regards,
KRS

 

[tbs]

There is a lot of talk about tradition.

These are some of the threads started by me

Oral tradition of the Vedas

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=1207

Indian Philosophy

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=1367

Panini's grammer

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=1337

Brahmins and Pujas

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=1217

These threads reflect our tradition.

Then am I a traditional Brahmin? The answer lies in how you define a traditional Brahmin. I do Puja every day for hours. I have learnt how to recite the Vedas and recite the Vedas. I have the Athikaram to perform Yagnas and perform them regularly. I have been given Diksha long time back. I have learnt Sanskrit and is involved in promotion of Sanskrit. I have a degree in Indology .

Then I perform Yagnas only for spiritual purposes and only for myself and my family. I am not a Purohita. I do not believe in calling other Brahmins for performing rituals like Punyahavachanam etc. which I do myself. I believe that women have the right to recite the Vedas and perform Yagnas. If Vak Ambirini can be the Rishi of a Vedic Sukta why have we prevented the women from reciting the Vedas. I have discussed this issue in another thread.

I do not believe in caste system and believe that all castes should be allowed to recite the Vedas and perform Yagna.

Do my beliefs make me a non traditional Brahmin even though I do more than what many traditional Brahmins in the way of religious tradition?

Again why do I post here at all.

Life can not be only religious practices. Since I do not do anything else it has to be balanced with service to the society. I believe I am doing service by providing information here. This is a small part of service activities on the Internet. Mind you I provide only information and my opinion.

1. Data: symbols

2. Information: data that are processed to be useful; provides answers to "who", "what", "where", and "when" questions

3. Knowledge: application of data and information; answers "how" questions

4. Understanding: appreciation of "why"

5. Wisdom: evaluated understanding.

My opinion of the scriptures is given in this thread

Mythology

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=1225

I can post excerpts from the original literature in Sanskrit. I can quote sources with ISBN number. But that is too much of a hassle and not required for this forum. This is only to generate your interest in our culture and traditions.

I post here and not in a blog or web site because I want to keep it strictly anonymous. Even this has been questioned by some people. Be rest assured you will never meet me. I do not interact with the general society.

hi Nachhi,
Namaskarams........ i have respect to you..but i have to explain something.
i studied veda patashala for 6 years and i had 4 masters and ph.d
in ADVAITHA VEDANTA/ SANSKRIT.VEDAS MEANT FOR BRAHMINS.
I SERVED INDIAN ARMY TOO.......BUT I BELIEVE STRONGLY IN
CASTE SYSTEM FOR VEDIC STUDIES.it has some values and
some rules to be followed..professionally we can do better than others.
so we feel superiority.may we call it ego/ and we are hypocratic.



Regards
tbs